FR++ 20 yo redhead virgin

[danbrazilian]

• I was staying in the capital city of my home country for 1 night and I thought this was an excellent opportunity to go out and put in practise daygame skills I've been learning recently. The goal was to get as many numbers I can and some i-dates as well if possible.
• I was walking in the park and saw this beautiful redhead walking briskly in my direction. I opened her with a standard line I've been working on and commented on her outfit saying she's dressed very strangely given the weather. The opening was good. We talked for a bit It and she seemed interested.
• It was only the second approach I've done for that day, so I wasn't sure if I should take her for i-date or just grab her number as I wanted to get in more practise just opening girls. But since we where in a park and literally 20 meters from us there was an ice scream stand, I proposed we grab some and sit down. She agreed.
• I didn't record myself, so I don't remember the conversation in much detail, but we talked about standard topics like where she's from, what she's doing today etc. I got to know that she's 20 yo, wants to be an actress or work in filming, studied fashion. We talked a bit about astrology, and it turns out we're the same zodiac sign.
• After about 15 mins or so I said lets go for a walk and grab a drink at the bar. As we were walking, I was escalating physically by pushing her playfully on the sidewalk and accusing her of taking all the sidewalk by herself. When we walked over the bridge I pretended to wanting to throw her over. She responded well.
• At the bar we ordered cocktails. There was this interesting moment. We talked about gender roles and how they're trying to reverse them. To be honest not sure this a good topic on a first date. But she admitted that she's very feminine and likes to submit to the man and that she likes to be "trained". Trained as in animal training. So I understood that like she wants to mold her behaviour to her man's wishes, basically. I was taken aback a bit by this comment, as I was not expecting for her to be so direct, so I said OK and just smiled. I think I fucked up here. Someone in the comments maybe can provide some feedback, as I'm sure there is much better ways to respond to that. She also said she likes direct men, so I took this opportunity and said I want to be direct with you and kissed her. She resisted a bit initially, but gave in quickly.
• After we finished our drinks I proposed we go for a walk. My plan was to go to a store, pick up a wine bottle then head back to my rented apartment. But I realised I messed up logistics-wise. My apartament was 30 mins walking distance away. I should've picked a bar that was closer. But she agreed to come with me anyway.
• Not sure what I did wrong, but her mood changed when I tried to kiss her the second time on our way to my apartment. She rejected the kiss. Her attitude was different. She was more serious. Maybe it wasn't wise to offer to continue drinking at my place.
• Anyway, we got in the apartment. We chilled for a bit, I turned on TV and sat on the bed. We were sitting on the bed and I turned to her and asked If I can kiss her. She said no and immediately got up and said that she needs to leave now. I said OK, I'm not gonna keep you captive.
• Outside the apartment we smoked cigarettes and she told me something I didn't expect. It turns out she's a virgin and that she hasn't had a boyfriend. She also said we were moving too fast for her. And that's it. We hugged and I escorted her to gate.

• Conclusions
  • I think the first half of the date was good. But clearly I did something wrong in the second half, as she closed off and refused to kiss. I think it was a mistake to offer to drink something at my place, as she interpreted that as me trying to get her drunk and have sex with her. In hindsight it would be much better to come up with an excuse to walk to my apartment. I had quite a heavy bag with me that I wanted to drop off and my phone was dying. So, much better would be to use that as an excuse and it would also be genuine request.
  • Second big mistake was going for the kiss too early when we were sitting on the bed and watching TV. It is such a beginner mistake I can't believe I did that. I should've made her more comfortable and build more physical intimacy through touch first. I was just too eager and didn't take into account her body language and state of mind.
  • Thank you for reading, I would appreciate your feedback. I am particularly interested on how to adjust your game if you know that she's a virgin.

 

[Will_V]

@danbrazilian first part of the date was great, instadates are always preferable - would you rather sit there and go through all the texting and logistics handling, or just get the first date done on the spot?

At the bar we ordered cocktails. There was this interesting moment. We talked about gender roles and how they're trying to reverse them. To be honest not sure this a good topic on a first date. But she admitted that she's very feminine and likes to submit to the man and that she likes to be "trained". Trained as in animal training. So I understood that like she wants to mold her behaviour to her man's wishes, basically. I was taken aback a bit by this comment, as I was not expecting for her to be so direct, so I said OK and just smiled. I think I fucked up here. Someone in the comments maybe can provide some feedback, as I'm sure there is much better ways to respond to that.

If you don't know how to respond to something, best just ask questions with genuine curiosity. Like "ok so what is it you enjoy about it?" "What does it look like, the guy does ABC and you do XYZ?" "Oh so you like to get the feeling of XYZ". Get her talking and opening up.

It'll become pretty clear if it's something she's genuinely into or if she's just trying to be shocking or whatever. If she's a virgin it's probably something she read about somewhere and made her horny, and she's saying it to try and prove she can keep up with you. If you're not careful this type of situation can get out of hand, since if she's associating going home with you with all sorts of wild sexual stuff she doesn't really know about, she'll suddenly start wondering what she's in for later on.

Not sure what I did wrong, but her mood changed when I tried to kiss her the second time on our way to my apartment. She rejected the kiss. Her attitude was different. She was more serious. Maybe it wasn't wise to offer to continue drinking at my place.

Yeah seems like a state shift where she's thinking "what am I doing, what if sex isn't as good as I thought it was, is he gonna expect things from me I don't want to give, this is too fast". Also on the way home we men tend to become very logical and logistical, thinking ahead and planning things, and not paying attention to the vibe or the concerns and objections that might be building up inside her. Gotta keep her talking and having fun, and keep a tab on her state.

Anyway, we got in the apartment. We chilled for a bit, I turned on TV and sat on the bed. We were sitting on the bed and I turned to her and asked If I can kiss her. She said no and immediately got up and said that she needs to leave now. I said OK, I'm not gonna keep you captive.

Asking her if you can kiss is not a good move, as you mentioned getting her relaxed and building up physical intimacy slowly is what was needed. She's expecting you to be experienced and that you'll comfort her and lead her, and asking for permission comes off like "what is that supposed to mean?" and puts pressure on her. If she's looking anxious, best to just chill with her, or get her talking and telling you what she's feeling and why.

Virgins are just like us when we had sex the first time - not sure what to do, hoping to perform well, wondering what the process is, looking for feedback and signs to indicate what to do next, and feeling an unstable mix of excitement and anxiety - except she's much more emotional still. So the main thing is to be very chill and patient and act like there's no hurry or pressure, talk with her a lot, and give her plenty of direction and validation.

Seems like you hadn't picked up she was a virgin, so it's hard to calibrate to what you don't know. But maybe getting more of a sense of her actual sexual experience during the date, and being more attuned to her state going home, would have helped avoid it.

Best of luck!

 

[danbrazilian]

Thanks @Will_V for feedback.

It'll become pretty clear if it's something she's genuinely into or if she's just trying to be shocking or whatever. If she's a virgin it's probably something she read about somewhere and made her horny, and she's saying it to try and prove she can keep up with you. If you're not careful this type of situation can get out of hand, since if she's associating going home with you with all sorts of wild sexual stuff she doesn't really know about, she'll suddenly start wondering what she's in for later on.

Thinking about it more deeply I think it could've been just a shit test to see if I will get perplexed. To be honest, I slightly was and she might have picked up on it. Knowing that she's virgin a question arises - how does she know that she likes to be "trained" by a man if she does not have any experience with them.

Yeah seems like a state shift where she's thinking "what am I doing, what if sex isn't as good as I thought it was, is he gonna expect things from me I don't want to give, this is too fast". Also on the way home we men tend to become very logical and logistical, thinking ahead and planning things, and not paying attention to the vibe or the concerns and objections that might be building up inside her. Gotta keep her talking and having fun, and keep a tab on her state.

This is exactly the reason I'm learning the game. Without analyzing this stuff it would take so much longer to improve just by passively observing. I feel like if I applied what I've learnd from this experience to the same date I've would've gotten so much further.

Seems like you hadn't picked up she was a virgin, so it's hard to calibrate to what you don't know. But maybe getting more of a sense of her actual sexual experience during the date, and being more attuned to her state going home, would have helped avoid it.

It didn't even crossed my mind that she might've been. At 20 I assumed she definitely has had sex before. It's just a so low probability that I didn't even considered that. But going forward with younger girls I will ask them more questions about their past relationships. And I think a question like - so how many long-term partners have you had, is good to ask in general as you will get a sense of how promiscuous she is.

 

[Will_V]

And I think a question like - so how many long-term partners have you had, is good to ask in general as you will get a sense of how promiscuous she is.

In general, I find it best not to ask questions like that directly, but bring things up in a more offhand way - asking her if she's the sort of girl who treats her boyfriend/lover a certain way, or expects a certain thing from him, or something like that.

It gives you a lot more seductive opportunities - transitioning in a fun way into the topic of sex and relationships, good sex/bad sex, teasing her, framing yourself positively, etc - and she's more likely to answer honestly, since it's not a direct, judgemental-sounding question. And once you get her talking about specific things, you can quickly get an idea of where her experience level is at.

 

[danbrazilian]

In general, I find it best not to ask questions like that directly, but bring things up in a more offhand way - asking her if she's the sort of girl who treats her boyfriend/lover a certain way, or expects a certain thing from him, or something like that.

It gives you a lot more seductive opportunities - transitioning in a fun way into the topic of sex and relationships, good sex/bad sex, teasing her, framing yourself positively, etc - and she's more likely to answer honestly, since it's not a direct, judgemental-sounding question. And once you get her talking about specific things, you can quickly get an idea of where her experience level is at.

You're right. A question like that could put her on the spot if she's not had any serious relationships either because she's a virgin or promiscuous. It's better to be more subtle.