Books & Articles A Billion Wicked Thoughts

[Marty]

I’m currently reading A Billion Wicked Thoughts by Ogas and Gaddam. It’s a great read so far, and has some peripheral relevance to the subject matter of this forum. Recommended. Also I am interested to hear others’ thoughts on it, if you have previously read it.

 

[AspiringStoic]

Hey I have read this book. Thought the world of it when I read it I think in 2017-18.

But since then my opinion has changed slightly. The premise of the book is that people's Internet search histories reveal their innermost sexual thoughts that they would not reveal anywhere else. While this might be true for some people, since the dawn of streaming porn sites there is a huge section of guys who have become addicted to porn.

Even though they might have started watching porn that matched their initial sexual tastes viewing tons of it de-sensitizes them to that genre and then they start escalating to more hardcore versions or even move into different genres altogether just to get aroused.

As a recovering porn addict, this definitely happened to me. The porn that I watched as a young teen became boring by the time I was 18 and then my interests went all over the place. Since beginning recovery a lot of those tastes are beginning to reverse. For a better explanation of this view. You can read the article here:

Rethinking Ogas and Gaddam's 'A Billion Wicked Thoughts' | Your Brain On Porn

web.archive.org

Just something to consider.

 

[Marty]

Hey I have read this book. Thought the world of it when I read it I think in 2017-18.

But since then my opinion has changed slightly. The premise of the book is that people's Internet search histories reveal their innermost sexual thoughts that they would not reveal anywhere else.

Thank you, AspiringStoic, for your comment.

When I started this thread, I was perhaps one-third of the way into the book, and it did seem to echo a lot of the valuable teachings on this site. However, as I progressed through the book, I regretted posting about it. The authors began to explore some really dark and obscene concepts, and I didn't even make it to the last chapter; I gave up on it in disgust.

I'm afraid I don't know much about the social evolution that you mention in the remainder of your post. I will agree, though, that much of the time, fantasy is better kept as fantasy, and in the bedroom it's better to stick to the classics, else you get mixed up in a sea of logistics and paraphernalia that destroys the spontaneity of the moment.

As an aside, I was interested to see your screen name. A girl I know wrote to me within the last few months, saying that I give in to my emotions too readily, and that if I fixed that we might be able to date, but she didn't see a future for us otherwise. I found this a little difficult to understand, and after a couple weeks' contemplation I replied that I hadn't hidden the fact that I was an emotional man; if she preferred a stoical one, there were presumably plenty to choose among, but I didn't see the point in her trying to transform an emotional man into a stoical one.

Your screen name would suggest otherwise: that one can become stoical, as opposed to it being an inborn aspect of character. I'm not sure I'd want to do that anyway, but I'd be interested to hear your perspective on it.

 

[AspiringStoic]

Thank you, AspiringStoic, for your comment.

When I started this thread, I was perhaps one-third of the way into the book, and it did seem to echo a lot of the valuable teachings on this site. However, as I progressed through the book, I regretted posting about it. The authors began to explore some really dark and obscene concepts, and I didn't even make it to the last chapter; I gave up on it in disgust.

I'm afraid I don't know much about the social evolution that you mention in the remainder of your post. I will agree, though, that much of the time, fantasy is better kept as fantasy, and in the bedroom it's better to stick to the classics, else you get mixed up in a sea of logistics and paraphernalia that destroys the spontaneity of the moment.

As an aside, I was interested to see your screen name. A girl I know wrote to me within the last few months, saying that I give in to my emotions too readily, and that if I fixed that we might be able to date, but she didn't see a future for us otherwise. I found this a little difficult to understand, and after a couple weeks' contemplation I replied that I hadn't hidden the fact that I was an emotional man; if she preferred a stoical one, there were presumably plenty to choose among, but I didn't see the point in her trying to transform an emotional man into a stoical one.

Your screen name would suggest otherwise: that one can become stoical, as opposed to it being an inborn aspect of character. I'm not sure I'd want to do that anyway, but I'd be interested to hear your perspective on it.

Yeah about the book, its way more nuanced than how they present it.

As regards Stoicism, you bring up several important aspects. I was also under the misconception that Stoic means to not show emotion. Unfortunately, colloquially people have started using it like that, hence the confusion.

Stoicsim is something I have delved into quite deeply in the last few years as I have started my journey in self improvement and dating.

The basic tenet of Stoicism is this:
- There are some thing in life that are under your control.

- There are some things in life that are outside your control.

All emotional disturbance and turmoil arises when you get "unduly attached" to things outside your control i.e. the second category.

Now if we apply it to pickup, what are some things under our control?

The number of girls we open.
Showing intent.
Bringing up certain topics during the convo.
Going for the number/ date request.
Texting the girl
Asking her out on a date
Escalating on a date
Asking her to come to your place

These are some of the things in our control. Doing these things and tweaking and refining how we do these things are under our control.

Things outisde our control:

How a girl responds to our open.
How she reacts when you show intent.
How she responds when you bring up certain topics
Does she give her number out
Does she text us back etc.

These are all things outside our control. We will never have full control over them.

According to Stoic wisdom if we become too emotionally attached to these second list of things we are going to have an emotionally unstable life.

Stoicism is all about moving our metric of success to things within our control and basing our emotions off stuff that is under our control.

And if you read the great Stoics, in all their works, they point out that Stoicism is a practice. It is to be learned and practised. Not innate. So its definitely something that you acquire.

Did not read the whole report with the girl in question but based on what you said, a girl would usually say that if the man is more emotional and less stable than she is. Every woman looks for a man who can remain calm and cool headed even when and especially when she becomes emotional. From my experience that is something that a man can definitely work on.

 

[Marty]

The basic tenet of Stoicism is this:

- There are some thing in life that are under your control.
- There are some things in life that are outside your control.

All emotional disturbance and turmoil arises when you get "unduly attached" to things outside your control i.e. the second category.

This is very interesting, AspiringStoic. This is almost word-for-word what the girl I referred to in my earlier post (who is exceptionally mature for the age of 25) said to me.

She remarked on a few occasions that I was too "controlling" (for example, when I tried to insist she walk on a particular side of me on the sidewalk, since I wished to protect her from oncoming traffic), and the way she phrased it was that being controlling was actually pretty okay, certainly much better than being "infantile" (which she explained as throwing up one's hands in the air and relinquishing all responsibility—I doubt that she would have gone on a date with a man showing this quality at all; she mentioned that some of her female friends were like this), but it is much better to recognize what is outside of one's control and not attempt to influence that.

I guess that in terms of your bullet points above: Recognizing neither (1) or (2) is the worst ("infantile"), recognizing (1) but failing to recognize (2) is better, but still not great ("controlling"), and recognizing both (1) and (2) is the best ("stoical").

Having mainly dated "pretty little princesses" who leave everything to me and are just thankful that at least someone is taking responsibility for a change, I guess it was a bit of a shock for me to go on dates with a powerful, ambitious young woman who sets very high standards and has trouble finding adequate suitors. Hence we got into a few unnecessary disagreements that could have been avoided, had I remained chill. She is still talking to me though, so I guess she sees potential.

Things outside our control:

How a girl responds to our open.
How she reacts when you show intent.
How she responds when you bring up certain topics
Does she give her number out
Does she text us back etc.

These are all things outside our control. We will never have full control over them.

That's a great reminder, thank you.

And if you read the great Stoics, in all their works, they point out that Stoicism is a practice. It is to be learned and practised. Not innate. So its definitely something that you acquire.

That's a very interesting observation, for two reasons. Firstly, it indicates that it is desirable, else those striving to achieve it would not be doing so. I had (mistakenly?) viewed it as a value-neutral character trait, with some people having a more phlegmatic manner and others being more swayed by emotion. Secondly, it is evidently attainable with painstaking practice.

That's definitely something for me to think about.

based on what you said, a girl would usually say that if the man is more emotional and less stable than she is.

Yes indeed. If I had been asked to describe our respective characters after spending several days traveling together in Türkiye, that is exactly what I would have said. I probably sensed it even before the trip, based on our past dates and written communication. Thing is, I didn't know it was a bad thing.

Every woman looks for a man who can remain calm and cool headed even when and especially when she becomes emotional. From my experience that is something that a man can definitely work on.

That's interesting, I sort of knew that (as it's mentioned in some of the articles here) but I didn't put two and two together and conclude that as the woman's degree of innate stability goes up, that sets the bar yet higher for the man.

 

[AspiringStoic]

Yes indeed. If I had been asked to describe our respective characters after spending several days traveling together in Türkiye, that is exactly what I would have said. I probably sensed it even before the trip, based on our past dates and written communication. Thing is, I didn't know it was a bad thing.

Yeah this can definitely be worked on. I was the same. I also think its a question of investment. You are more likely to be emotional and react emotionally if your investment in her is higher than her investment in you. So its an ongoing process. I worked on this and improved a lot. But the first time you get a girl that is hotter than any ones you have had before, we become unable to be less invested and fuck it up. But then once getting those calibre of girls becomes normal, again we can become centered within ourselves and not be overly invested in her.

 

[Marty]

I also think its a question of investment. You are more likely to be emotional and react emotionally if your investment in her is higher than her investment in you. So its an ongoing process. I worked on this and improved a lot. But the first time you get a girl that is hotter than any ones you have had before, we become unable to be less invested and fuck it up. But then once getting those calibre of girls becomes normal, again we can become centered within ourselves and not be overly invested in her.

Hm, yes. Other women in my life have been almost as or equally "hot", viewed in terms of superficial appearance; but I was definitely thrown off-balance when encountering this level of beauty in a woman who had so many other talents and accomplishments, as I mentioned in the previous post. Therefore I need to pay attention to what you say about unbalanced investment.