Absolute Beginner with conservative upbringing looking to develop basic game, any help is appreciated !

[Yaxir]

Hey everyone !

I will try to be be very open about myself, because this is something quite different and new for me. Most importantly, this will be me going up against my deep seated fears, so it's actually important.

I am 26, from Pakistan. To tell you a bit about my physique, i am around 5.6' and wheatish in skin color.

I will admit, that i have some things to fix about myself. I don't work out so i am physically out of shape. I am badly insecure about my looks and i don't have a good sense of fashion at all.

It is important i tell about myself so you have an idea where i am coming from.

Never had a girl friend, never had girls like me back, always suffered from unrequited love and any move i made for a girl ALWAYS ended up in disaster. The girl was either just using me for her gain or was already taken or engaged/ready to be married ( girls get married early in the subcontinent ). Since a young age, i was always taught to not talk to any girls who were not known or not from the family, since there was fear i might choose the wrong type of girl for marriage ( lol )

If anyone of you is from Pakistan, India or similarly conservative societies, you will know that there is no such thing as cold approach and there is always the danger of the girl throwing a tantrum and getting you beat up by her relatives or by the general public. It sounds ridiculous but it happens in some asian societies, you can confirm this with other members from the region, if you want. This badly scarred me and introduced a bad case of Approach Anxiety (AA). I am fearful of approaching women because i think i will always be regarded as a creep by women since she. so whenever guys here talk about initiating by touching the women, i quickly withdraw because in my mind, touching a woman you don't know WILL get you into trouble, probably getting you arrested or getting you beat up by her male relatives / public.

I heard a ridiculous story from a friend about a guy who once asked his far away cousin (they lived in different cities) for her phone number at a wedding party and she fking complained (!) to her close relatives about him, thinking he was into her ! He almost got in to a fight in that event, with relatives ! that is how stupid the society is , just to provide you with some perspective

There are no bars or dance clubs ( if there are, they are top secret otherwise the police raids them ) so i don't really know where to meet women as well. It's a very confusing scenario to be honest.

The point in telling you all this, is that this is the kind of society where i am coming from. I don't agree with most of the cultural beliefs there and i constantly find myself disagreeing with the popular opinions being held by the majority there. I am not perfect, no one is. however, i do believe i am broad minded and believe in a life and let live mindset.

I will probably move to Istanbul soon and stay there for about an year or more. I don't intend to return to Pakistan, ever ( and for good reason ! )

From what i read on reddit and on this forum as well, Turkey is still a very conservative society even if it is a European country. I still do believe that it will be much better than Pakistan.

I just discovered what actually is meant by 'game', a few days ago ( i think four days ago at the time of writing ? ) and i realized that i have zero game and that is one of the primary reasons i have never had a girlfriend or any sort of meaningful relationships with women outside of my family.

I am moving to a different country and i know only a handful of people there. I don't want to come off as desperate or needy but i do want to develop in all aspects of life, including my sexual life.

I would appreciate any tips the community can give me on how to develop my game, especially for a fairly conservative society like Turkey.

Also, if anyone who has had similarly conservative upbringing, regardless of where you are from, i would love to know how you were able to develop game and get rid of your psychological barriers and obstacles regarding approaching women.

Consider me like this; an absolute beginner at game, someone whose game is zero meter right now. Never approached a lady and don't know how to. Have bad approach anxiety and poor fashion sense ( will change soon ) and a bit physically out of shape ( also looking to fix that soon ! )

This is my second post ( my first post got no responses ) and if something can be improved, please let me know. I did read Mr.Chase's guide to posting here and tried to be as engaging with this post as possible.

P.S : If anyone has any idea about the dating/game/hookups scene in Istanbul, please feel free to share any tips or any information that might prove helpful

I am sincerely glad for finding this community. i hope i can learn from you and one day write my own lay reports on this very forum.

 

[Starboy]

I understand why you have the concerns you do of cold approaching in Pakistan. I didn't grow up in a middle eastern country so unfortunately I can't tell you straight up you'll be fine cold approaching and not have any issues because I really don't know.

I live in the US and was raised in a Muslim household,mostly hung with other Muslim kids in grade school,went to mosque to pray and all that. So i'm familiar with the mannerisms of Muslim people being raised as one myself.

However the reason why i'm open to the idea of pickup is because I have detached myself to Islam and the muslim people I knew. Deep down I knew I wasn't a true believer and I know from experience a lot of Muslim parents pressure and control their children to get them to follow their beliefs,lifestyle whether they want to or not. It's even worse if they're a female. This wasn't right to me so it confirmed my belief.

After I graduated HS I stopped seeing my Muslim friends because I knew we didn't share the same values,principles,goals. I wondered if this was ok to do and then I realized you're not obligated to be friends with people you don't like any more.

In a country like Turkey and Pakistan you're likely going to run into conservative people consistently more or less since those countries are not as diverse as the US.

Yes Game will help you get girls,but it sounds to me like your fundamentals need work. That's the first step you gotta take. Maximize your overall appearance dress better ,build your body, get a decent haircut, have neat facial hair, get comfortable socializing with people,dress decently. I think you kinda figured that out on your own. You need to handle the basics first.

I think your priority right now should be your fundamentals and then your socialization skills. You can't get girls if you struggle to socialize and integrate yourself and I get the vibe that's where you are right now. Get out of Pakistan and into Istanbul. That seems like a start.

Also guys from here may not always respond to your post it's nothing personal. They may see it,but not be in the mood to respond or have anything to say. Guys will usually gravitate towards interesting headlines and posts first. Don't go to other posts and ask people to respond because that's a panhandler's mentality. I have plenty of posts that I would've liked feedback on it,but didn't get it. That's ok not a big deal I move on.

 

[ulrich]

Hey @Yaxir, after reading your posts in this and the other thread, I think the best advice I can give you is:

1) Move out of your current environment ASAP (possibly Istambul, I don't know if it will be different enough)
2) Get in touch with guys who have gone through similar trasformations

As much as I would like to give you more advice, it seems that you are in a situation where you need to work in your environment and overcoming certain limiting beliefs specific to your upbringing.

I am from Mexico and we have a very different culture, so I am not sure I can relate.

However, there's some guys here from all over the world including some from muslim Africa and Middle East (more similar to your situation).
Also, when you move look for guys coming from similar situations and ask how they managed... these are your best sources.

I'll be around here to help you on the next stages.
Wish you luck.

 

[Mike Silvertree]

I'm from the USA. I am quite old. I grew up in a well off middle class family that were fanatical Catholics in the 1950s & 60s. I was sent to a Catholic school, also run by fanatic Conservative Catholics. By the time I was 14, I knew more about Catholicism than I ever really wanted to know.

Although I didn't realize it at the time, the best thing that happened to me was the death of my father when I was 14. Within a year, my mother got rid of me and my sister who was 7. My sister went to live with my mother's sister on the other side of the country. My mother turned me over to the "Juvenile Justice System", which was designed to deal with teen age criminals. She did this by declaring me an ungovernable child. I was sent to two foster homes that I ran away from within a week. They were both farms, and they were getting paid $100/month to have an unpaid farm worker. BTW, figuring inflation they were being paid $1000 US per month to have a free worker in today's money. After that I spent a few months in Juvenile Detention, correctly named, jail for children. At some point I there was an incident where they locked me in my room for a few days as punishment. I responded by destroying my room. At that point I was sent to a mental hospital for evaluation. I ended up staying there for a year. It was actually the best year of my life to that point. The young people I was there with were more more sane and normal that the adults I had been dealing with my entire life at home.

My break came when I was allowed to go home to visit my Mother for Christmas. In the year and a half I missed, my friends had become Hippies, and told me to come with them and disappear. It's too complex to explain what Hippies were here. Look it up if you care. It worked, I was free, I'm sure they weren't trying to find me.

After that, I had to start from nothing. My parents and school had been massively negative on sex; I had a huge amount of brainwashing to overcome.

How did I do that? By just having a go at it and trying to get laid and have girlfriends. I screwed up a lot, and blew a number of what should have been easy lays. But, within a year, I had sex for the first time and a year after that, had a really beautiful girlfriend that was fucking me all the time. Within 4 years from my fresh start, I progressed from never getting sex out of isolating with a girl to getting sex every time I isolated a girl.

Advice? Get going. You are more likely to get killed than laid practicing pickup in a Conservative Muslim country. Step one has to be to get out of there and to a Western country with a more open attitude on sex and male/female relationships. I don't think Turkey is one of those places. It may have been secular and open once, but it has become much more conservative and fanatical since the new regime. Try to get into Europe. Millions of other Muslims have managed that. It can't be that hard. When you get there, get a job and start rebuilding your life. Do not fall in with other Muslims, unless they too are trying to turn themselves into Westerners. Do not end up in a Muslim ghetto. It will be like you never left home.

You write like an educated person. In the West, there usually are jobs for those willing to work hard and do a good job. You may have to start at the bottom. My first jobs were washing dishes at a restaurant and then I moved up to washing cars at a Cadillac dealer. Car dealerships are a river of money and if you are a good worker with a good attitude, they will train you for better work with higher pay if you do a good job at your entry level job. Get you life sorted first, then work on pickup.

One of the things that helped me was having a circle of friends. Friends have friends and I went to parties and hung out with friends and this is how I met women. Women you meet this way are far more likely to give you a chance as a guy with little experience. Having my own place as opposed to living with other people helped a lot. That is when I started to have first night sex with any regularity. It was just a small room with a shared bathroom at the end of the hall, but it was all mine, and women didn't feel like they were being observed by others when there with me.

It's going to take a while to totally embrace a new culture. I know, I was highly indoctrinated as a child, and it just doesn't feel right at first, which makes adapting a new culture difficult. The good news is, that will pass.

A line from one of my favorite books, It's the job never started that takes the longest.

 

[Yaxir]

Hey all !

Just wanted to provide an update, since it seems like the right thing to do & considering all the massive value you guys have provided in this discussion and how welcoming, open-minded everyone has been

I landed in Istanbul in April last year and i would like

so, you guys were right about Turkey. let's start with the good; It's got good infrastructure, beautiful girls who dress openly and the country is beautiful

the bad thing ? shitty mentality of most people which i didn't want to deal with, i just realized how similarly shitty and insecure people are across regions - i sensed that some of the turkish guys in the game that i talked with, were trying to steer me away from turkish girls & i don't want to blame any stereotypes but i heard some well-meaning guys say that most turkish girls prefer to put out for tourists / foreigners and that made turkish men really insecure when they had to compete with foreign men. And not to mention, some people there were racist too lmao ( they don't even know the difference b/w asian, arab, african etc - uncivilized pricks ) , some even told me to go back to my country - typical dicks

other shitty factors include the fact the nightclubs all enforce gender balance ( can't enter without girls ) , most girls look like sexy models but can't speak english to save their lives & can't communicate with you. Ask them do you speak english and they will withdraw nervously .. disappointing as fk

i did meet a well-meaning turkish wing and one of the few decent people in the country. He was the one who eventually helped me approach my first ever set in February 2022, an year after i discovered game. It was just a warm-up approach, i just told her she looked nice and she was very happy to hear that ( i was hyperventilating and laughing nervously later on ). Then i got confidence and approached another girl i saw in the area, complimented her too and she was super happy. I ejected from both sets because it was too much excitement for me. Both girls spoke english, so that made it easier for me. Howver, that was it. I am still having trouble seeing a crowd of people, a shopping mall, any open place as a potential hunting ground for approaching girls.. it's so difficult to undo all the brainwashing and it always makes me fear for my life - i hate this part about myself but i will try to undo whatever i was conditioned with because i don't want to die with any regrets

I came here to study but drowned in anxiety / depression & had some other problems , so not only was i not able to make any progress with girls but i am currently also underperforming in the very merit i was able to come to Turkey ( my education )

I realize i will have to focus on my studies and end my stay here as soon as i can & rightfully so. Turkey's economy is tanking and it's worse off than countries which are apparently poorer, linguistic compatibility is another factor and the fact that turkey's society, despite having westernized culture, westernized dress codes for both genders is still mired with conservative bullshit. The gender balance is effectively a way to keep thirsty men away from a few women in a club, which screams conservative bs. Also, girls seems to have rather high ASD and higher egos as compared to western women, that is not to say they are not promiscuous but lack of language compatibility means it's harder to screen for high interest girls

i tried learning turkish but the school really fucked it up for me and only gave me the course in my final ( tentative ) semester, which screams irony.

this risks looking like a rant from me, but this is what i could summarize about this country. You really need to speak turkish if you plan on living here for an extended period of time ( and seducing turkish girls who don't speak english ).

ofc, i am to blame too. I got lax, adopted a vacation mindset ( when i should have studied like a mad man ), did not develop a social circle at campus when the lockdown was lifted and held on to my anxious belief systems instead of risking a portion of my physical safety for a much greater prospective reward.

i realize my issues are more inner game than outer game. I am good looking, i can speak and articulate well. When i am confident, i am a world beater and unbeatable on my day. when i am in my stride, nothing can stand in my way

on the other hand, i am a really bad overthinker and tend to doom my mood and mental wellbeing to negative thoughts arising from my overthinking. I have a very poor perception of myself, so basically a very poor self-image - which translates into bad vibes, which do not attract any girls. Lastly, i give too many fucks about other people - i do think i need therapy, not because i am clinically insane, but because i need to be treated for inciting artificial anxiety in myself, for caring too much about what other people think ( giving too many fucks, like about the turkish guys trying to stop me from seducing turkish girls ) and for being a very negative thinker. oh and for overthinking, i definitely need therapy for that

i realize i have a long way to go & while the shitty conditions in turkey certainly didn't help ( i don't have much money since i am a student & not that high status, so couldn't get into many high status place but i doubt a nervy guy like me would have pulled anyone from those situations as well )

but like Mike says, i need to work on sorting out my life first. Get a long term guarantee of stay in a western country

I know myself and believe in myself, i can be an asset to any country i work and reside in - but i really need to get my inner bearings right & start focusing on faster results

I need to be more upfront, more polarizing with other people & especially with women. I need to have a strong perception of myself and an excellent self-image, i need to stop putting myself down and forget about the shit that happened in the past. I need to learn to move on

Most importantly, i need to start enjoying life - i, like all you guys here, literally get one shot at living life

might as well take the plunge while we're at it !

we're here for a good time, not for a long time

 

[mist]

Wassup

This will be ironic coming from me, but

One step at a time friend.

Do the newbie assignment and pick up SMMA, Real World Seduction 2.0, and or one date and Chase's book. Any or all of these will get you in the game and it's up to you to run or walk, but you'll have a roadmap to the destination you seek.

I was having a very bad time with AA today despite merely a few hours prior having some really quality time in sets via nightgame with 11 different girls. Low momentum and atrocious state due to game stuff, life related things, sleep deprivation, and poor frame/state management after some disappointments.

When I accepted I was having a hard time at the store I troubleshooted for something basic and effective. Stand straight, Strong eye contact, projected voice, saying hello to people, gradually increase how long you stick around and chat, add some spice, eventually don't leave until either you or her leaves no matter what happens and go for a contact/soft close at minimum.

One step at a time.

I missed out on many sets, but even still just showing your brain you can make the next step without catastrophe is worth it. Then if catastrophe occurs as it has for me these last few weeks you live with it. I have no doubt in my mind if I return to the principle of one step at a time I'll make the necessary steps to do what I want which is more important than the past and future.

The present steps build your past and future and yet I am struck by how much I am concerned with both of those when I'm literally living what builds though. There is no past and future without the present and yet rarely is it given as much investment it's peers. Odd huh... everything is built from the present at the end of the day.

The present steps you take.

It's so small, but don't ignore it. Do what it takes. Show your brain you can do it now. Then do it repeatedly so it's even more refined/flexible in the present.

Simple as that until you die.

Take a step consistently and eventually you might find yourself in the company of your dreams, and a bit further ahead you'll surpass them.

I never thought starting out I'd indirect game myself into sweeping a girl off her feet right in front of her "boyfriend" to the point he's boxed out and I'm grabbing her contact info in his face while he grimaces.

I never thought I'd have a 2-set in nightgame in the extraction phase of seduction before dudding.

These both happened today. I am not special in any way and in fact as stated earlier my momentum and state is atrocious while this happened.

It'll be better when I get better and do things that make me feel better. Just gotta take the steps

One step at a time.

Anything you want is all in steps.

Take the steps and anything is possible.

And It starts with one.

One step at a time friend.

One step at a time

 

[trashKENNUT]

Also, if anyone who has had similarly conservative upbringing, regardless of where you are from, i would love to know how you were able to develop game and get rid of your psychological barriers and obstacles regarding approaching women.

One step at a time.

I have had many India foreigners who suffer a lot of cognitive dissonance because the females here are too liberal.

Don't worry. Sweden has this. Asia has this.
Don't let go of religion/conservative ideas just like that.
1)Just don't engage.
2)Observe what people are doing that goes against what they say that they believe.

One step at a time.

z@c+