Advanced Qualification

[Estate]

Hi guys,

I found this video on YouTube of Adam Lyons.... I hope it's ok to post the link here, if not mods can snip it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFO5Da82QOM

Its an hour long but gets VERY interested around the half hour mark. It really pulled together some things I never really got about qualification.

So we all know how to qualify a girl right...?
Tell me something interesting.....?
What is your FAVOURITE place to travel....?
...etc, etc, etc...?

I get the principal behind this, we want to find out what she IS interested in so we can get her talking, thats it at it's most basic I guess...
But what I always lacked an understanding of was that if I keep fishing for topics, where is it really leading to? Hopefully I find a hooking point with her, often I don't.

For example, I've met some Brazilian and Mexican girls recently... I'll ask them about their country, things they like and it leads back to what they MISS about home that they don't get in Boston. The good weather, the food, the beaches, etc... etc... not very productive.

But in the video it begins to explain how qualification is not just a bunch of lines to get her talking but can actually get used in a way to get a girl to comply with you and really you are running this from the beginning with a set direction you want to lead the interaction.
I found this fascinating, as it's something I've always thought it must be about but just never really knew how. How do I start at the beginning with a set gameplan of how I'm going to bring the interaction to a point where I want it.

It's a long watch but even if you don't... I'm still interested to hear others thought on this. Do you begin an interaction knowing where exactly you will take it 5, 10, 15, 30 minutes in and have a gameplan of how you are going to make it happen? Gently seeding the conversation and questions to get it to where you want to be?
And if so.... how do you do it? Do you have a certain method or set of steps.... I feel it could be really powerful and after watching the video really feel I want to learn more.

 

[Richard]

Personally, I run a different brand of game, similar to Light, more of an adsptive style, and I currently use a lot of wit to start anywhere with a girl and find a way which relates to my opening and her responses to lead the conversation, and lead her from there. What you used while talking to the Mexican/Brazilian girls is called the "ripple theory," and at the end of it, after you've found out what they missed about home, you can find a way to offer them a slice of their home country, ie "nice mexican restaurant." To the essence of your questions though, I don't go in with a set plan, there is no universal approach to women, but with a bit of wit/brains, you're able to ask qualifying questions and loop them back around to your intentions... I'm writing from my phone so if I missed anything, or am unclear anywhere, please respond.

 

[Estate]

I'll try to clarify as it's difficult without watching the whole video (which I know is quite long).

This is not about routine stacks or routines, it's about having a direction or a purpose to your interactions. Every conversation has its ebbs and flows and goes differently but if you let it veer off without a set goal in mind from the beginning then it easily gets sidetracked to being unproductive or having no purpose. You need to have a course in mind.

Let me expand on another point made in the video, hopefully it explains:

The PUA's favourite qualification question - "You look really friendly... Tell me something interesting about yourself".
Personally I'm not a big fan of this question. Not because it's a bad question but because it puts too much power into her hands as to where the interaction is going... no matter what happens, what comes next is a recovery as you scramble to find ways to relate or else quickly find something else to change course.

The 3 possible responses are (ranked by most likely):
1. Most Likely response - "Um... I dunno..."
Now what do we do? We set ourselves up for this awesome response but most girls will just give you nothing. The PUA community insists every girl will be jumping at the bit with a detailed answer about her psyche but it's just not true. Most people do not have an answer prepared for this and are caught off guard.

2. The sometimes response - "Well you came all the way over here to tell me that... why do YOU think I'm friendly"
This happens sometimes, and this girl is savvy. You are fighting a losing battle here, she knows what you are at, she's heard it before and she's ready to battle with whatever you spit at her. You are now on the back-foot scrambling to tell her WHY you came over... but do you REALLY know? I doubt it because you didn't say it because she looked friendly... you said it because you needed an opener.

3. The occasional response - "..... long detailed response telling you all about herself..."
This is the one PUAs insist all girls give you but I find they don't. Girl who give you this are ALREADY invested in you, they need to be already into you to screen themselves so hard. So when you get this answer you feel a sense of achievement, right? Oh you crazy guy... you qualified her HARD. But did you? I don't think so. She was already invested, so what was the point of this question? She was always going to answer it... so does the answer even matter to you? Probably not.


So here is the point I'm getting at. This question in isolation is pointless... in fact, it can dig you into more holes than anything. Zphix... what I hear here is that you want to throw these questions at the girl, unprepared for where this is all leading and then need to react on the fly. You are always on the back-foot. If it hooks great, but often it won't without being an amazingly quick thinker.

So when you say she looks friendly... are you saying it because it's true and you have a reason to say it... you want her to qualify on that later and build to compliance... or is it just an opener. Can YOU qualify why you said she was friendly when it's thrown back at you? Or is it a REALLY important question which helps you build to something later?
How about asking her to tell you something interesting? She might tell you she has a pet goldfish or a weird fetish or just say "I dunno"... unless these are responses you WANTED because you had a plan as to WHY you asked... then this question is literally painful as hell. You now need to either push her to say more than "I dunno" when she really doesn't know or care... or else try to relate to her about her goldfish or whatever.

What you really want to do is do like in the video...
When you say she is friendly at the beginning... that is to set the frame that she is... build on that as the interaction progresses.
If you don't care if she is friendly or not... you need to qualify on something else... and have a reason for qualifying on that thing.

From the outset... everything you do or say in any interaction should have a reason behind it. If you qualify at all... qualify on something which is IMPORTANT to YOU because this needs to be important later.
So she tells you that she is adventurous: This only helps if you have a plan to gradually lead her to doing something adventurous later in the conversation. If you don't... it's pointless, you don't really care about the question.

Maybe you guys do this already. It's something I've searched for a lot. I saw the purpose of qualification but didn't see the purpose of the questions I learned to ask... they seemed like dead ends.

 

[Richard]

Estate, I think you may be over-analyzing things a bit, and from here I can only speak for myself, and I don't have a problem with a girl throwing something back at me because I am incredibly quick witted. However, in my experience, you never know how a girl is going to respond to a question... or maybe you do. I gauge a girl before qualifying her, and ask her qualifying questions which relate to what I look for in a woman (as Chase recommended in his eBook) and her responses give me insight into her. I never take a persons words at face value because I've learned that most people have masks, and I read the girl as she's talking or responding before I qualify her, because if she's interested I'll know, and can continue on from there. If she's somewhat interested I can continue differently, and if not at all, I close right there.
In addition, I don't like that question "You seem friendly..." it doesn't have a purpose regardless of her response, I go in with set questions, I have about 13 of them that I've picked up from various higher ups on this site, and questions like that aren't any of them. About what you mentioned, what questions have you learned to ask?
Again as I said previously, I can only speak for myself, but, when I ask a girl questions, they aren't intended to get a general response, they are to get her thinking and acting so I can read her non-verbally, because she may say one thing and mean another, I prefer to pick up on emotional vibes and go from there, because then I know whether her responses are meaningful or not.

 

[Estate]

Zphix,
I like your style and you're right... you can't go in with a "script" because every interaction is different.

I think it just cleared up a slight sticking point for me...
A line like "You seem friendly..." or infact ANY other qualification question is redundant unless you have a good reason to ask.

Personally, where I have been letting myself down when qualifying is that I have thrown out a lot of the stock questions I've read online but it was probably a scattershot approach. If I got the right responce or a positive one that I could work with then things were good... but if I threw out a question and maybe didn't get the "expected" answer I felt like I was just throwing things at a wall until something stuck.

That was a personal sticking point I guess. But this just sort of tied things together for me... it's not about having a script, but more about having a purpose. Like I need to stop throwing random qualification lines I have learned at people and instead ask questions which are relevant or have a purpose. Of course every interaction is different but there is also the oppertunity to "lead" the conversation whereas... at times... if I did't really know where I wanted to lead it, it just got away from me and I was in a position of recovery.

Part of the video is also seeding things or gradually escalating... the line about "you seem friendly..." alone does nothing and that was my problem... but if you know where you are going Adam explains how it is just the first step in gradually "building up" the interaction. It just made things start to make more sense for me. Hopefully if anyone else felt the same as me, this video is actually a very good watch.

 

[Richard]

Exactly, and another big thing to remember is... you qualify a girl with questions that relate to what you want because it throws her in the yes or no pile. If you ask qualifying questions which relate to what you want ( I have questions which relate to a girls dreams, hopes,aspirations, her personality,all things I personally look for) and if she doesn't fall in line with a lot of those questions, then the interaction for me is done, and that is the purpose you want to have in qualifying women... "wedding out the immediate nos"
Hope everything helped, if you need anything else, feel free to respond.
-Richard

 

[57Things]

Estate, maybe I'm late to the bandwagon here but I have one or two thoughts you may find useful...

I wonder if you're missing the forest for the trees here, because by focusing on the theoretical usage of such techniques you're forgetting why you're using them in the first place. Qualifying questions are to qualify women--you check what you like, and skip the rest. From what I see, you've already reached this conclusion.

I haven't seen the video but you mention having a goal in mind during conversation. Well, as Chase has pointed out so often and well, your goal is to see if you like this girl, and if you do, to sleep with her.

If you keep this in mind constantly, then I don't see you getting stuck in qualification, ever. You find out what she's about, you get her to talk about it and invest in you that way, and if you like it you connect and vibe with her and go somewhere private. If not, then you move on.

This attitude, which I generally adhere to, is very honest. And that's what I believe the key is here--you're honest about who you are (albeit presented well) and you're honest about your intentions. The girl can like you or not, and if she likes you, you see if you like her too.

So by sticking to lines that others have thought of, you feel disingenuous on some level--as you point out yourself, "it's just a line to talk to her." She catches you out on that and you feel unbalanced, exposed. The way to avoid this is to be completely honest. "Well actually I just came here because you're cute, but you know...being friendly would be a plus." That would get a laugh, I'd expect, and then you're on. I had a friend who literally told a woman that he was there for her tits--and they hit it off.

Bottom line: improve yourself, get standards, be honest, and move decisively. Really, that's all that Chase's advice really boils down to. From what I have read of your posts, you're already completely fine. Just overthinking a little.

At least, in my opinion.

Hope this helps...

-57Things

 

[Estate]

Hmmm....
I don't think I did a good job at explaining what the video is all about judging by how it was interpreted.

It's a long video but for anyone with time it's well worth it.

The point is NOT having a script... but having a GOAL or outcome in mind. Whether it's a number, a kiss, a lay, or whatever... you are building to that goal... but in a very deliberate manner.
i.e. you are controlling the interaction. You're not just randomly screening things like...
"Oh so what kinda movies do you like..." "Oh great...." Now you know if you ahve the same taste or not.

The point is in qualifying her about her actions and personality and desires... you start small to get small compliance, then build but the point is... the 2nd "qualification" leads on the first and so forth.

Think of it like a good comedian... you know how you can watch them do a show for an hour, seemingly jumping from story to story but somehow in the end he manages to tie all the jokes into the same finale?
That sort of idea... sorry, it's hard to explain. Adam Lyons does an awesome job of explaining though, well worth the watch.