All my success seems like luck & persistence not game

[Gsi2810]

Lately been feeling like a fraud... discovered this site during covid and it transformed my dating life (lay count was 2 in 2019 now it's 30) but now that I really think about it... all my lays have happened because I improved my fundamentals & showed up consistently at clubs, do day game, use weekend boosts on apps and persist like a mad man when a girl shows interest, this has increased my laycount but all of this makes me feel like I have no skill the girl was probably gonna sleep with me no matter what I still have never converted a girl (so to say) who didn't want me to begin with. I just show up and persist... I have only laid one 8 mostly 6 sometimes 5 rarely 7.

 

[Chase]

@Gsi2810,

"Just showing up" is a surprisingly big part of success in any field.

That said: if you feel like your game is not tight enough, you want it to be tighter, and you want to lay hotter girls:

What are you going to do about it?

Are you going to:

• Go through the Newbie Assignment?
  
  
• Take the diagnostic quiz and complete the 30 days of homework in whichever book you get?
  
  
• Start listing out specific tactics or strategies you want to work into your game and take 3 of them as goals with you every time you go out?
  
  
• Learn specific routines (like The Cube, Strawberry Fields, or the Three Favorite Animals Game, or any of @Teevter's sex talk gambits) and start using them intentionally with girls?
  
  
• Start going for hotter girls and figure out what it takes to get them?

Chase

 

[Gsi2810]

Thanks for the response Chase I have read these articles from time to time never hurts to read them again. To me it just boils down to compliance the 8's and above are just colder, less compliant and lesser smiles which snowballs in me doing less physical escalation and not doing all the sexual gambits which I do with the girls who are all smiles and very interested in what I say... is it just stiffer competition for the hot ones. Sometimes I feel I should just power through the coldness and escalate nonetheless as you say empirical tests should be conducted and tested but calibration seems off when the girl isn't really into the conversation and I start laying down sexual DHV stories which flow naturally on a girl who is smiling and really into me. I have always been a good conversationalist (very cool article on GC by you) even before game and I know emotional topics get girls to invest but the hot ones always remain a bit aloof & less interested.

Oh yes a critical information- I'm from Dubai and I game exclusively in the west (Dubai has low percentage of single women who are not in p4p) I come and go in Europe frequently so while I'm not just a tourist in cities like Warsaw/ Budapest/ Prague but also not a resident maybe the hot ones are searching for something long term or maybe I'm too brown for the very hot ones or their english levels are too average... I dunno all just mental masturbation for my mid results.

 

[Chase]

Thanks for the response Chase I have read these articles from time to time never hurts to read them again. To me it just boils down to compliance the 8's and above are just colder, less compliant and lesser smiles which snowballs in me doing less physical escalation and not doing all the sexual gambits which I do with the girls who are all smiles and very interested in what I say... is it just stiffer competition for the hot ones. Sometimes I feel I should just power through the coldness and escalate nonetheless as you say empirical tests should be conducted and tested but calibration seems off when the girl isn't really into the conversation and I start laying down sexual DHV stories which flow naturally on a girl who is smiling and really into me. I have always been a good conversationalist (very cool article on GC by you) even before game and I know emotional topics get girls to invest but the hot ones always remain a bit aloof & less interested.

Oh yes a critical information- I'm from Dubai and I game exclusively in the west (Dubai has low percentage of single women who are not in p4p) I come and go in Europe frequently so while I'm not just a tourist in cities like Warsaw/ Budapest/ Prague but also not a resident maybe the hot ones are searching for something long term or maybe I'm too brown for the very hot ones or their english levels are too average... I dunno all just mental masturbation for my mid results.

How're your fundamentals?

Delivery/energy levels/expressiveness?

Are you running direct game or indirect?

If your approach is working on less attractive girls it should work on more attractive ones too, if done properly.

The game doesn't fundamentally change with hotter girls; everything just needs to be executed tighter.

 

[Jan]

Hi @Gsi2810 It was interesting to read your post. I've been there and felt the same way. How you feel and how you think, I think this is natural after you've completed the beginner's phase.

You've got to congratulate yourself because you did very well, my friend. You did the work and you had results

Don't judge yourself that harsh.

When I look into the past, I specifically recall thinking to myself. "My results it's not my game, it's just approaching a lot and persisisting. I feel like I have no technical skills and no real control over the process."

THIS IS HOW YOU FEEL AFTER YOU'VE COMPLETED THE BEGINNERS PHASE!

In my view, the most important learning you should take with you into the intermediate stage is that SHOWING UP AND PERSISTENCE MATTER. It's not the technical part of the game, but IT HAS IMPORTANT IMPACT ON THE RESULTS.

I think in the intermediate phase, you should create a map of your seduction process on paper. You need to know it step by step.

Once you have this process on paper, you take the first step (or whatever step you like actually) and FOCUS ON THIS STEP. What you want to achieve is to find a working solution to the problem on that step and learn to APPLY THIS WORKING SOLUTION CONSISTENTLY. If you complete this exercise for a particular step, you will prove to yourself that it's possible to move forward with something which resembles game (and not just persistance) and that you are able to do at least one part of the seduction process technically and constistently.

Then, you take the next step, and the next step. YOU STILL NEED TO SHOW UP AND PERSIST in the intermediate step. But with every step, you will realize that you need to persist less and rely more on the technical solutions.

If you work equally hard as you did during your beginner's phase, once you complete your intermediate phase you should have a working solution for several steps which work consistently. You will still have gaps, but you will also have confidence that it's not only about showing up and persisting, but you will have this internal confidence that YOU ALSO HAVE GAME (in some areas

Good luck!

 

[Gsi2810]

@Chase you got me there I'm sort of mid... yes I'm a mid guy getting mid girls I workout just enough to be in decent shape with average body but I invest in my fashion and accessories to standout. Also I'm in my mid 30's and my work & practice is something I'm proud of so much so I consider it as a part of my fundamentals (it gives me an mental edge knowing that I'm on the up and up in the world though it does nothing for my SMV just a psychological thing). I run direct game I call it the James Bond game direct but still stoic and charming but not touchy early on and another gem I got from this forum last year was containment (thanks @Skills) (I look at her like James Bond looks at a girl he's gonna ravish her but can't touch her, creates a very intense sexual look).

@Jan thank you for your kind words man I have been tinkering with the "step" I allude to it in my previous post... am thinking about starting to lay down sexual DHV stories (@Teevster tantric one is my favorite, hot exes and their kinks) which really help in getting lays but the vibe was good and the girl was really into me... seems a bit uncaliberated if I just power through with those stories with a hot girl who isn't fully sold on me yet and is a bit aloof.

 

[Skills]

I personally also think we are trending back to 2010 a more minimalist game based on fundamentals and screening.... So yes it may feel like a fraud but if is the trend why fight it vs going alone with it...

Some different tweaks for seduction in new era...

These are already discuss in the forum in other places and in my yearly reviews but it is just a bit of adjustments: - Try texting faster.- This one is HUGE, back in the day we advice to match her response time, so if she took an hour to text back you take an hour and 10 minutes at least...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Chase]

@Chase you got me there I'm sort of mid... yes I'm a mid guy getting mid girls I workout just enough to be in decent shape with average body but I invest in my fashion and accessories to standout. Also I'm in my mid 30's and my work & practice is something I'm proud of so much so I consider it as a part of my fundamentals (it gives me an mental edge knowing that I'm on the up and up in the world though it does nothing for my SMV just a psychological thing). I run direct game I call it the James Bond game direct but still stoic and charming but not touchy early on and another gem I got from this forum last year was containment (thanks @Skills) (I look at her like James Bond looks at a girl he's gonna ravish her but can't touch her, creates a very intense sexual look).

Okay. Well the thing with direct is, it works very well if the girl views you as equal-to-or-better-than her at a glance.

If her first impression is "this guy is not at my level" then you need to either come in indirect, or your delivery with your direct needs to be so charming/bombastic/hooking that the energy of your approach itself makes you sexier.

Mid + direct = you will get mostly mid girls.

You can be mid + indirect and get hotter girls. Or excellent + direct and get hotter girls.

Think of it like having an unimpressive résumé and interview skills and cornering a hiring rep from a Fortune 500 company at a job fair and saying, "I want a job!" Very direct, but they are just going to immediately tell you, "Sorry, we're looking for something else."

You can either walk up bristling with such an impressive résumé and such sharp skills that the hiring rep is drooling to hire you on the spot... or you can walk up, pretend to just be poking around, but indirectly drop such a steady stream of value that the rep starts probing without you even asking, "So, are you looking for work right now? Honestly you seem like you could be a great fit at Fortune 500 Megacorp!"

@Jan thank you for your kind words man I have been tinkering with the "step" I allude to it in my previous post... am thinking about starting to lay down sexual DHV stories (@Teevster tantric one is my favorite, hot exes and their kinks) which really help in getting lays but the vibe was good and the girl was really into me... seems a bit uncaliberated if I just power through with those stories with a hot girl who isn't fully sold on me yet and is a bit aloof.

Like you've noted, girls need to signal their receptivity to sexual topics before you go full bore.

Trying to force sex topics in can work sometimes... but usually it just makes you look horny & uncalibrated.

Start with other material and make light sexual references to test how receptive she is.

Don't go running into it though until she is giving you some green lights.

Chase

 

[Jan]

You can be mid + indirect and get hotter girls.

I think this is a very good technical advice for guys who are trying get hotter girls. I remember this weeks-long thread about stunners, and it wasn't mentioned there. It makes a lot of logical sense too.

Direct - asking her to make a very quick decision because you believe your value is very apparent, so she should be able to say yes intuitively. Strategy: move fast.

Indirect - giving yourself more time to display/communicate value, because she needs more time with you to see your value in full. Strategy: patience.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

You can be mid + indirect and get hotter girls. Or excellent + direct and get hotter girls.

This is an interesting distinction. When you mention excellent, do you mean from a fundamentals perspective? Because when you go direct it's not that the girl has any other way of knowing how excellent you are, apart from seeing and feeling you in the moment.

I mean you could be excellent in general, just not look like it. I suppose that Tao of Steve, who had excellence as a big part of the process, was like that, that's why he was going a very indirect route.

So in the end it seems to me that you either show excellence right at the approach, amazing her with your fundamentals, energy and smoothness so that she gets intrigued from the start and let's you run the rest of your game, or you show excellence later, after you have gotten into an interaction with her, so that you can run your game and get her gradually intrigued enough to show interest back.

And it makes a lot of sense, I've been reaching a point where I can go direct to extremely hot women without feeling intimidated, but it seems that a lot of times this confidence of mine that we could be great for each other doesn't mean much to them. And I've always heard about how the hottest women get approached less and appreciate it when finally a guy has the guts to make a move, so it has bugged me a lot how I can be pretty much fearless in front of them but they can still reject me very fast.

I suppose I either have to improve my fundamentals and presentation enough to have the direct approach make sense to these girls, or finally go a more indirect route. Never liked this second one a lot, because it felt I am tiptoeing around being all sneaky about my intentions when I've gone for it, but if they don't even give me enough time to run some game on them, I have to find a solution to that.

 

[Kaida]

Lately been feeling like a fraud... discovered this site during covid and it transformed my dating life (lay count was 2 in 2019 now it's 30) but now that I really think about it... all my lays have happened because I improved my fundamentals & showed up consistently at clubs, do day game, use weekend boosts on apps and persist like a mad man when a girl shows interest, this has increased my laycount but all of this makes me feel like I have no skill the girl was probably gonna sleep with me no matter what I still have never converted a girl (so to say) who didn't want me to begin with. I just show up and persist... I have only laid one 8 mostly 6 sometimes 5 rarely 7.

Exactly how I feel bro.

Just wanted to contribute by saying you’re not alone

 

[James D]

your delivery with your direct needs to be so charming/bombastic/hooking that the energy of your approach itself makes you sexier.

thisss ++++++++++++++

 

[Gsi2810]

@everyone thanks for all your inputs food for thought … seduction while fruitful is a very lonely journey for me, most of my friends are married or blue pilled so this community is very special to me cheers

@Chase ahh indirect i would need to re-wire my brain for that. early on in my seduction journey i was indirect and even lost girls and going direct really pushed my results. i think @ChrisXKiss put it perfectly i just view myself as more than worthy to be with stunners and remain direct of course the seller may think he’s a hotshot but it’s a buyer’s market so i’ll try to build more comfort but i definitely also don’t want to lose my killer instinct. whenever i lose a girl i have no regrets because i owned my attraction indirect may have a lot of what ifs. i personally have difficulty being very animated and high energy so my presentation is gonna be muted but still charismatic (at least i think i’m) is there a way to improve direct game other than put in very high energy it’s just very out of character for me.