An opening style: Hook dropping

[Glow]

A simple way to open that i like to use is what can be labelled hook dropping. I share it cause it can give a little nuance to how we open that shapes some ease on the opening.

Hook Dropping: To drop a particular sentence to a bypassing woman or one standing next to me to see if she bites. As such you put it out there and she can answer it or react to it and you get an initial mini-hook and a read of her interest-level to work from.​

Often responses easily lead to conversations and seductions.

Example:
Yesterday me and a colleague was walking and a gorgeous woman walks slower in front of us. We walk around her and she squeeses of a bit to the side in her own world. As we pass her i look back and say " sorry if our pace stressed you in any way". Her response: no worr i was just in my own head with a mio thought. her vibe was warm and connective. Me: A mio thoughts??? (done with raised eye brows and a playfuld smile) Gorgeous: yeah im looking for an apartment.. Glow: continues and elicits deeper. Later we had drinks and she ended up at mine.

This can be done as outlined in day game pass-bys, side by side openings, but also works well with mingling style room game where you mingle around and drop hooks left and right to see if chicks bite. Its a lot less stressful way to manage room gaming or an opening. I rarely mingle anymore as i just sniper in where i want to aka materialise next to some woman of delight and then side open. Also here it works great.

The idea is that you shoot it out like a true fisherman and see how she responds. Ive talked about how the opening just needs to open - not impress, not overpower, not anything really for many situations. The response to it is the key to manage and elicitation techniques works well here to easily transfer into more like i demonstrated. its especially good for more passive day game or early stage night game.

It works like a charm as a soft open that then via elicitation opens her up for you. As you get leads from her you stimulate progressively and work her via subtle escalations.

A few variations (fit it to situations)
- You can make it more provocative if the environment has chaos or the girl at hand demands more energy - punch to get her to respond.
- You can easily use reality paces and truisms ( have you ever noticed how...>>insert RP<<) ).
- 1 mio other options.

But really for many DG situations its great to just put something super polite out there to initiate a soft normal convo that then evolves romantically...

 

[Skills]

yea good post (reminds me of cajun look at video minute 2:13) i would argue that even if she does not "contribute" if the body language and micro reactions are positive is good, and i would cont. fishing (verbally).... It is similar to my own realization here

 

[Glow]

yea good post (reminds me of cajun look at video minute 2:13) i would argue that even if she does not "contribute" if the body language and micro reactions are positive is good, and i would cont. fishing (verbally).... It is similar to my own realization here

Lol. good old Cajun. Yeah this is actually quite like how i did things w. "gorgeous".

And i would definitely continue fishing too like you say in the situation you outline. Also often the hen of a set will answer while other girls in set will be passive but silent and obviously more affected and here set re-positionings etc can be smart to then engage the right target after managing the set appropriately.

When i mingle though i dont do this. my aim is to just open, amplify their energy via their responses, then LEAVE to create a cindarella like snowballing effect by igniting the to make them loose it right after. I mainly focus on girls that almost hold me in set which will happen along "the mingle rolls". I seek to activate massive social proof, where i create a smoke and mirror effect across sets with hook drops, mini-openers, ioi forcing etc.

Another nuance is that at more sexualised hours girls will be a lot more carefree and react more as such. Here i hardly have time to drop hooks as the sexual tension does all the work for me and typical hook dropping could be a step back in the wrong direction or it needs adaption. But hm... let me just consider those scenarios for sexualised game level hook drops... might be interesting actually.

Inspiring to re-see Cajuns rocksolid stacking and leading things while rolling with the set. His confidence is one to steal gives me ideas for refinement of my own. Thanks for the share.

 

[Teevster]

Awesome stuff!

This can be done as outlined in day game pass-bys, side by side openings, but also works well with mingling style room game where you mingle around and drop hooks left and right to see if chicks bite. Its a lot less stressful way to manage room gaming or an opening. I rarely mingle anymore as i just sniper in where i want to aka materialise next to some woman of delight and then side open. Also here it works great.

Exactly how I open in nightgame. I walk by a girl, and use some serious body rocking and drop some random comment and see if it bites: if yes (likely) I engage by facing her more with my body. If not, I keep on walking.

I think this really works when you open "as you walk by" follow with body rocking (the latter will always help).

I think the magic here is that you open without really opening - which not only helps you maintain frame (indirect strategy) but you also bypass many (negative) auto-responses - because you are not really opening per se, so she can't really react as "if" you had truly opened her. This is essential. You can reject a guy just passing by an dropping a comment. At worse, she can ignore you. But I prefer having her "ignore me" than reject me. The latter is more intense, theatrical and hostile. Thus this strategy is good for social proof-building because you avoid any potential "theatrical" rejections that could be generated from classic opening - which in turn could lead to negative social proof.

Yesterday I enter a smoking room and just dropped a random comment infront of every one "oh my god, this place is synonymous with freshness!" and girls laughed and they took the bait. Now I can open.

Alternatively I would walk through a smoking area and slowly clap my hands as I walk slowly through the crowd and girls usually take the bait "why are you clapping your hands" and I always make some excuse like "because I am a seal" or "because I want to applaud the crowd for finally opening up".

We also, if you remember, had that trick of yelling "it's showtime!" whenever walking by a crowd. Still works. Requires some "state" though.

But any comments could work.
"Damn those drinks here are really fancy"
"Damn lots of funny people here"
"Oh, there we have a princess" (and keep walking)

Anything goes. I think it has to be situational.
This is why in the past I have referred to this as "situational" openers - and they are truly situational, but I think your term (and explanation) is better.

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

Another nuance is that at more sexualised hours girls will be a lot more carefree and react more as such. Here i hardly have time to drop hooks as the sexual tension does all the work for me and typical hook dropping could be a step back in the wrong direction or it needs adaption. But hm... let me just consider those scenarios for sexualised game level hook drops... might be interesting actually.

I also noticed that in the later hours of the night, this strategy is less efficient because girls are probably drunk and your simple "drop by comment" is not stimulating enough to really catch her attention. Just a theory.

Do you have any theories?

-Teevster

 

[Mr.SocialAcceptableHarem]

I've started doing situational openers whenever I go indirect after reading your hooking cheating sheet @Teevster

Sometimes though, a girl will respond with something minimal like "yes" or a nod of the head and I wonder if I should keep walking if I get one of those non-committal responses.

The times that I keep talking to these girls, I rarely get their number.

I wanted to know if you guys engage with these small responses or just keep walking, are they worth the effort or not?

 

[Teevster]

Sometimes though, a girl will respond with something minimal like "yes" or a nod of the head and I wonder if I should keep walking if I get one of those non-committal responses.

Depends on setting. In nightgame I would keep walking like nothing happened, and open another girl instead. In which case, if that other girl is equally (or more) sexy to me, I will go for her (duh). If she is not I can still use her for social proof and eventually re-engage the girl who seemed initially aloof.

Daygame and setting where you cannot re-engage you will have to make a call whether you want to put in the work or not. Remember, an opener's purpose is to open, and by getting a neutral response, you still accomplished your goal (compared to direct game where you'd more likely get a rejection instead). However, it seems you put too much emphasis on opening - how and what you transition into after the opener (hook phase) matters as much if not more, and it is in this phase that you start making girls go from being neutral, to potentially interested. The following can be applied to nightgame, although I prefer walking away and rely on social proof (personal preference).

Now, this is not always possible, and not that easy - I will be honest here. but it is more than doable and I think you should focus on your hook game and practice those techniques so that one day, you can turn those aloof girls into interested girls.

Hope this helps,
-Teevster

 

[Mr.SocialAcceptableHarem]

Depends on setting. In nightgame I would keep walking like nothing happened, and open another girl instead. In which case, if that other girl is equally (or more) sexy to me, I will go for her (duh). If she is not I can still use her for social proof and eventually re-engage the girl who seemed initially aloof.

Daygame and setting where you cannot re-engage you will have to make a call whether you want to put in the work or not. Remember, an opener's purpose is to open, and by getting a neutral response, you still accomplished your goal (compared to direct game where you'd more likely get a rejection instead). However, it seems you put too much emphasis on opening - how and what you transition into after the opener (hook phase) matters as much if not more, and it is in this phase that you start making girls go from being neutral, to potentially interested. The following can be applied to nightgame, although I prefer walking away and rely on social proof (personal preference).

Now, this is not always possible, and not that easy - I will be honest here. but it is more than doable and I think you should focus on your hook game and practice those techniques so that one day, you can turn those aloof girls into interested girls.

Hope this helps,
-Teevster

I appreciate it, thank you

 

[Chase]

I'm also a big fan of this. Usually I just call these pings:

• Girl's getting a bunch of drinks at the bar: "Wow, you must be parched."
• Waiting in line at a coffee shop: "Oh no, we're going to be in this line all day."
• Sitting next to a girl in a café: "OMG, the Internet here is turtle speed."
• Girl brushes up into you: "Hey don't knock me over."
• Standing next to a girl at an intersection: "Uh-oh, this is one of those really slow lights."
• Standing near a girl in a bar: "This place is really poppin' tonight."

Etc. Sometimes kind of directed at her, but mostly for my own amusement. Sometimes just an undirected comment said in her vicinity.

Either she can take the bait or not. If not, fine. Saved yourself a potential rejection. If she takes it, awesome, you can go in.

Not every girl you CAN get will always take the first bait. Sometimes you will ping girls like this, only to have them basically just smile and nod... not really engage at all... well, you can just ping them several more times (assuming they haven't rushed off, and didn't seem ice cold to the first ping like your presence is annoying them). When you do multiple pings on the same girl I call that "slow opening"... sometimes she doesn't hook until ping #2 or #3. You just spread them out across a short span of time.

The way I judge it is if I ping her, and isn't ice cold, but seems a bit receptive, though doesn't open, I will just wait a moment and ping her again.

Sometimes she needs a few pings to decide if she's going to shut down or open up.

I also noticed that in the later hours of the night, this strategy is less efficient because girls are probably drunk and your simple "drop by comment" is not stimulating enough to really catch her attention. Just a theory.

Do you have any theories?

-Teevster

I find you can still do pings later at night, but they have to be more emphatic pings.

e.g., instead of just dropping a casual, "Man, this bartender's got some speed," you need to get close to her, ideally get some eye contact, and say, "MAN, this bartender is SWIFT, isn't he?" and point your thumb right at the guy demonstrably.

Then if she isn't interested, she'll just be like, "Yeah..." and turn away. If she is she'll be like, "OMG, he totally is!" and then you chat her up.

Of course the problem is it feels like a bigger rejection at that point if you get right close to her and she denies it.

What seems to happen is as the night goes on, girls' awareness radii shrink. I'm sure the alcohol is part of it, but I think another part of it is the chaos. Earlier on it's not as chaotic and girls are paying closer attention to everything going on around them. Later at night they've been bombarded with stimuli for hours and have really focused in on whatever they're focused on. So you can be right next to them going, "This bartender sure is swift!" but if it doesn't seem directed at them it just gets filtered right out as background noise.

Ends up being you have to get eye contact, make some gestures, etc., so she knows you are definitely talking to her, and then she pays attention.

Chase

 

[POB]

Gym style:
Crowded gym
~Damn, I hope they have covid filters here
~We should get a password to refill our bottles
~We should get a password to use this machine
~Lol, came to workout, ended up on a packed bus
~Guess the sauna got opened earlier today....lemme grab my robe

Normal gym
~Man, I'm feeling weak now (when she is training heavily)
~Hope this water is anabolic (jokingly smile)
~I just love the treadmill! (faking you are about to puke, put finger in throat)

 

[Skills]

I've started doing situational openers whenever I go indirect after reading your hooking cheating sheet @Teevster

Sometimes though, a girl will respond with something minimal like "yes" or a nod of the head and I wonder if I should keep walking if I get one of those non-committal responses.

The times that I keep talking to these girls, I rarely get their number.

I wanted to know if you guys engage with these small responses or just keep walking, are they worth the effort or not?

Again as the link i posted the whole point is to buy time and get some type of read, if is a clearly fuck off body language you keep it moving... if is neutral you stay there fishing till she acts positive body language or if fuck off body language you leave

 

[mist]

I like stores.

Some hit and maybe runs, pings, hook drops I've used to great effect

Daygame Store:

1. Times like these where you wish there weren't so many options...I'll never leave now (general)

2. Man, if only my (dog)/(cat)/(niece/nephew)/(grandpa/grandma)wasn't so picky. (specialized section...you don't actually need to have a pet or kid in mind could be a friends or a gift if you are the truth police...also don't sound actually frustrated. this is positive and relateable.)

3. You know I probably should have brought someone who knows about this stuff, i'm totally lost. ( a section you know nothing about, for me this would be cars, makeup, or the makeup for cars section.)

4. I wanna know who bought all the good stuff before I/we got here. (general)

5. "Everyone chose the same time to shop as me it seems" or "seems we chose the best time to shop" = tonality changes the meaning of the second one and is flexible to any busynes

5. Hi, how's it going

 

[Glow]

I've started doing situational openers whenever I go indirect after reading your hooking cheating sheet @Teevster

Sometimes though, a girl will respond with something minimal like "yes" or a nod of the head and I wonder if I should keep walking if I get one of those non-committal responses.

The times that I keep talking to these girls, I rarely get their number.

I wanted to know if you guys engage with these small responses or just keep walking, are they worth the effort or not?

You already had good answers but heres my take!

1) if i am strategically mingling or doing "room game" i dont care much about individual responses - my aim is to go in, drop hooks, amplify the energy and then LEAVE. This means i would presumeably already be sorta leaving when she responds. The effect of this aims to with the girl create a takeaway effect - that she looses the connection by my control - a feeling of loss, and a second effect is to create a smoke and mirror effect that makes OTHER girls see me as someone cool, who creates/has multiple social ties as they just see me slowly rolling in and speaking to many girls/people along having a cool presence. The strategy is to game the room, not the girls. I combine this with an A lister presence just sorta floating through. Then collect in later or when i hit something i like as some girls will pull me in later or engage me.

2) if i materialise with a particular girl and the girl is HOT i might do either of the following:
a) Amplifying up the energy by responding to her response to my opener. even a slight no can be ignited via a raise in energy and eg shifting to challenging response that dramatised the energy. i can rip neutral style girls out of their shell this way. Ill see if i can repost one of my old nextasf post that outlines it.
b) More calmly activating her via shooting reads - aka i , + setup pacing and leading with a stronger perspective that resonates with her values - would often need more but this is a way to flip these girls if i choose to go in and "work her". Here micro nuances of her state is key.

3) if i enter and have time i might vibe bomb her before which can at times make her a lil uncertain but i know she just need to collect herself a lil and i route things to work with her withdrawn energy - sorta opening her up like a flower that just withdrew. This often entails a part warm, part confident sorta leading her making her feel at ease. strategy is to make our convo fun and interesting which i can manage by 1) making her respond to me (spitting game) 2) making her feel comfy/having fun/disarming.

4) there are many other reactions and strategies, just to give you a bit of variety to show theres a bit more to it especially dependent on your strategy at the moment it happens.

The game situation here is how to work with/turn a yellow girl which is a key skill to obtain.

if im more laid back/smashed state i mainly focus on green girls with better responses and just ignore girls like this.

 

[Glow]

I also noticed that in the later hours of the night, this strategy is less efficient because girls are probably drunk and your simple "drop by comment" is not stimulating enough to really catch her attention. Just a theory.

Do you have any theories?

-Teevster

Cool, yeah my theory is that its about later in the night states for chicks somewhat similar to your thoughts:
- Theres more chaos, sets are mixed up and all running across each other which makes them "in momentum" and a little more tunnel visioned.
- Some girls are more wild - unfolding states looking for guys who are leaders and potent.
- some girls are more carefree, dont care about regular blah, wants to hook up with someone interesting.
- Shields are higher.
- Some might be drunk as you say
- Some are sleepy/tired/deenergised/bored
- some are paranoid from the chaos and feeling of social uncertainty.

Point being the volume is turned higher and the chaos level creates a less attentive, less "polite", less open crowd. More primal, more raw, more shielded on some areas, more sexually charged, more unfolding. i just sorta see the totality of how girls states are changed to later in the night type states makes them give us less attention and demand a lil more attention capture.

is this something that resonates with you?

I find you can still do pings later at night, but they have to be more emphatic pings.

e.g., instead of just dropping a casual, "Man, this bartender's got some speed," you need to get close to her, ideally get some eye contact, and say, "MAN, this bartender is SWIFT, isn't he?" and point your thumb right at the guy demonstrably.

Then if she isn't interested, she'll just be like, "Yeah..." and turn away. If she is she'll be like, "OMG, he totally is!" and then you chat her up.

Of course the problem is it feels like a bigger rejection at that point if you get right close to her and she denies it.

What seems to happen is as the night goes on, girls' awareness radii shrink. I'm sure the alcohol is part of it, but I think another part of it is the chaos. Earlier on it's not as chaotic and girls are paying closer attention to everything going on around them. Later at night they've been bombarded with stimuli for hours and have really focused in on whatever they're focused on. So you can be right next to them going, "This bartender sure is swift!" but if it doesn't seem directed at them it just gets filtered right out as background noise.

Ends up being you have to get eye contact, make some gestures, etc., so she knows you are definitely talking to her, and then she pays attention.

Chase

Interesting point and details on stimuli overload - cool.