Anti-Rape Group

[PinotNoir]

So, I went to this charity run for "rape awareness" and the prevention of rape. I think this is a good cause, and I like to run, so I decided to go.

I ended up meeting two of my friends there (both girls), and well, they told me some very interesting things.

First, of course, I think rape is bad, and I hope that guys learn the GC (or PUA) skills to avoid ever having the idea of rape because they are unable to meet a willing woman. (If you find a girlfriend, that's willing to be "raped" as in roleplaying and sexual fantasies, then that is fine, as long as it doesn't trickle into reality with strangers and people that are not willing. No judgment here.)

Anyway, one of the girls told me that she had been raped. Something that she had never revealed to me before. The weird thing is that she didn't know that she had been raped. She was dating this guy; the guy persisted on sex; she kept saying "no"; and they had never had sex before this.

I accept that people that are dating, in relationships, or marriages can be raped by their partners. What's weird to me is.... she didn't realize she had been raped. It wasn't until years later that she realized that it was rape. She told the story to some friend, and the friend told her that she had been raped. This really confuses me. I think if you're raped that you would know it immediately, right? I even asked her if she enjoyed it afterwards, and she said no.... yet, she still didn't know it was rape during the action.

If we can be open minded here, this specific scenario just doesn't sound like rape. It sounds like the guy persisted aggressively, and she's not revealing some type of underlying enjoyment from it. I just don't get it.

Here are some statistics that they shared at the event:

- 35% of women have been raped in the USA (160 million x 0.35 = 56 million)
- EDIT: This is for all living women, all years. With quick google search, it says 1% of women got raped last year, which is 1.3 million.
- Most rapes (I forget the %, over 50%) are NOT a stranger, but a friend, boyfriend, etc.

Rapes do happen, and they're awful. Some states do have little laws on it. Men/women/society can be insensitive and/or try to brush it under the rug. I'm not arguing these things, and these things do need to change.

What I don't get is the above scenario. If someone raped me, I would know. It wouldn't take me years to realize it. And, this happened to her when she was a senior in high school.... I feel like that's an old enough age to know.

I then wrote this off as an outlier, so I pressed her for more information. (I never argued or judged her; I just let her talk. I didn't say anything that I'm saying in this post.)

She then told me that she was at some other convention with a lot of her girlfriends. None of them said that they had been raped. Then she revealed her story, and then almost all of the girls agreed that something similar had happened to them, and almost all girls had realized that they had been raped. What? I'm so confused by this. The other girl at the charity was also agreeing. All of these girls hadn't realized that they had been raped in the act.

Does anyone understand this?

 

[Franco]

Pinot,

Does anyone understand this?

It sounds to me like social activists just spewing nonsense that they don't really understand. For example, they might ask a girl, "did you ever have sex with a guy where you said you weren't willing to have sex with him and then never consented verbally?"

The girl thinks back and goes, "Well... yes, actually."

Then the person goes, "So you were raped?"

The girl goes, "...I guess I was."

When you think about it, how many interactions have you run where you've taken a girl to bed where she explicitly stated, "I am going to have sex with you"? Probably not too many, right? There might be the few outliers (usually older women) who will explicitly state it because they have less of a fear of social reprimanding and know exactly what they want.

The people at these organizations don't take into account what LMR (Last-Minute Resistance) REALLY is. And what it really is is just a mechanism for protecting a girl's social reputation so that she can indulge in something she really wants to do. In order for a girl to be raped, she legitimately has to NOT want to have sex with you, and she has to make it clear that she does not want to.

Some women have been legitimately raped, and they tend to confuse what other girls have experienced with what they have experienced. If a girl has to be TOLD that she was raped, then it means she probably wasn't raped. If you're a girl and you were raped, you KNOW it happened. You were forced to do something beyond your control, and should you have had the option, you would have exited the situation.

Anyway, after becoming much more aggressive after discovering this website, I've discovered that it is really difficult to "rape" a girl if you're a genuinely good guy. We teach the guys on this website to not physically restrain girls and force them to do anything. We allow them to leave at any time as to not make them feel like they are pressured into something that they HAVE to do or have negative consequences otherwise.

So when a girl has to be told by someone else that she's been "raped," then I would just assume that she wasn't legitimately raped.

- Franco

 

[trashKENNUT]

Pinot,

So when a girl has to be told by someone else that she's been raped, then I would just assume that she wasn't legitimately "raped."

I agree with Franco here. A girl who is legitimately raped, all too often find her family and close friends first.

Some girls today use "I am sick" or i feel this and that. It's girl talk.

As Franco noted, She knows if it happens for real.

z@c+

 

[PinotNoir]

Franco, ZacAdam,

This is exactly what I thought! I just wanted to get some validation, thanks guys! It's just odd to me, and it's like society makes me feel "bad" for questioning whether someone has legitimately gotten raped or not. I feel like it holds back my aggressiveness as well (at least with sex; with kissing, I've gotten more aggressive and have never had a girl angry afterwards).

At this event, I definitely didn't want to bring this up though. There were some girls I met that did local boxing, and they were ripped -- damn. They could probably kick Mike Tyson's ass.

-PN

 

[Nuncle]

Pinot

What Franco and Zac say is valid and undoubtedly this happens but just to provide another perspective:

Firstly, the human mind is a very strange thing. It is very good at denial and very able to hide things from itself. People can go through many years or decades being sort of aware of but at the same time ignoring something very obvious about themselves that is staring them in the face. Being raped is just one example of this. Some people even go into denial about having been raped (or abused as a child) by a stranger. The closest parallel to your story I can think of from my own life is having been very badly manipulated and used by certain friends of mine. Because I was in awe of, or felt I needed, these friends I sort of compartmentalised the manipulation. I was sort of aware of it, and how bad it was, but at the same time managed to ignore it to the point where it wasn't really an issue for me (at the time and for several years afterwards).

Secondly, (and this is an uncomfortable insight) I actually think there is a link between violence and sex. I think there is an element (usually subtle these days) of threat involved in many "pulls", to the extent where the line between rape and sex is not always very easy to define. In caveman times yes, the strongest, most dominant male got all the pussy but he didn't fart around asking for it. He didn't worry about white knights or cockblockers. He just shoved all the other males out of the way and climbed on. I have watched a documentary about lions where, after chasing off the head male, the new young pride leader will kill all that male's infants and then go round mounting all the females (whose cubs he has just killed). They don't all flock to him as the prized male. He doesn't court them. They have no "choice". There is still at least traces of this in humans. I can think of times certain friends of mine have pulled (sometimes dating the girl in question afterwards) where there was a suggestion of coercion in the initial lay. If you talk to a girl and then refuse to leave her alone and just brush aside all her objections and keep following her and have a stronger will than her one consideration going through her mind will be "God, what will happen if I make him angry?" I am not saying that this is the only thing going on but it will at least be an element.

And if the people involved are already dating, and the man has a stronger character than the women then where, indeed, do you draw the line? As I say it is not easy to define. He may bully her into going on a holiday she can't afford, or into watching his choice of film. He may bully her into performing a sex act she doesn't want to. He may do so with a confusing mixture of charm and intimidation. He may not see it as doing anything wrong, that is just how he gets stuff done.

This is why I can actually see what some feminists are getting at when they make the seemingly ridiculous statement "all sex is rape". I think there is a kernel of truth in it.

Any good negotiator, in politics/business/whatever knows how to combine charm with a subtle hint of ill defined menace. Same applies to sexual negotiations.

Salesmen sometimes do things like this:

Salesman: When are you free for a meeting?
Prospect: Well I am very busy right now.
Salesman: That's great, I've set aside Friday afternoon just so we can meet and discuss this further.
Prospect: Um,er, well I don't want to disrupt your plans but I really am pushed for time right now.
Saleman: Ok how about 4 o'clock then? Do you have parking?
Prospect: Yes just next to the office.
Salesman: Great! See you then! I'm really looking forward to meeting you!
Prospect: I guess.....OK then.

This is an accepted part of business. Men can use the same sort of tactics equally effectively with a "soft" girl. I am not saying it's rape. I am saying the line is blurred to the point that it is not always easy to concretely say "this is rape and this is not"

 

[DesiBro]

Rape is a big grey area, because there is no standardized, objective test for it. Some people think of rape as a violent sexual act which doesn't stop even when 1 partner wants it to. Others stretch the definition as far as 2 drunk people hooking up. Those studies with stats like 1 in 5 women get raped in college use definitions like this - and some of those surveys are ridiculous - for example, the survey in Ms. Magazine which found that 1 in 5 women get raped in college also found that over 40% of rape victims continued to sleep with their rapist. Clearly, their definition was too broad...

Unfortunately, in our legal system, rape is defined by how the victim feels, which is impossible to precisely predict. The most violent "rape" may not be a rape because the victim found the rapist sexy and the experience exciting. On the converse, a relatively normal, consensual drunken hookup can be considered rape because of post-sex regret.

Sadly, this means that attractive sociopaths can get away with their crimes while well-intentioned guys with no game end up behind bars for decades, but there is no easy solution to this problem.