FR Approached stunner, instadate, told me to text her, went cold on text

[iceberg slim]

So I'm at a quiet park having some me time on Sunday, lounging in the sun reading GC articles. I turn and see that a cute girl has materialized nearby seemingly out of nowhere, lounging on a towel like me. I take in the situation for a few moments, and then get up and approach her. I walk up next to her without facing her, pause, ask her how her day's going, and then finally turn toward her and make eye contact. As I turn toward her I notice 2 good things: 1) she's looking at me with a curious and playful little smile, and 2) she is legitimately stunning.

Her: I'm good, you?
Me: Yeah same, beautiful day, can't complain.
Her: Did you notice the ground is wet?
Me: Yeah, I did start to feel moisture through my towel...are your buns soggy?
Her: *laughing* Um yeah they are!
Me: Oh...what are you going to do about that?
Her: *laughing* uh I don't know!

(Kind of wished I'd said "You should lay on your front in the sun" and/or "I could pat your buns dry with my towel if you want" but that might have been too much)

*Brief pause in the conversation*

Me: yeah so I saw you sitting here and thought you were cute so I thought I'd come say hi
Her: *flattered* oh well hi!

I think we exchanged names here and shook hands and maybe said a few other pleasantries. Then...

Her: Um...how old are you?
Me: *suddenly realizing she is on the younger side* Guess
Her: 30
Me: Older
Her: 40
Me: You straddled my age equally on both sides
Her: Oh 35
Me: Yep
Her: How old do you think I am?
Me: Um...you are 21
Her: Good guess I'm 20.
Me: Cool.

Banter back and forth about both being locals, where we went to school etc.

Her: I was kind of emo in high school
Me: So you're emo?
Her: No I'm more of a hippy these days.
Me: Oh you're a hippy? So you wouldn't have an issue meeting up with a 35 year old then right?
Her: *smiling* are you asking if I'd meet up with you?
Me: Um...it's pretty obvious that you would, so no I'm not asking, I'm more just broaching the subject.
Her: *laughing* um no I don't think I could meet up with you.

So one thing I've been realizing I need to work on is persistence and not getting fazed by "no." I think I did a pretty good job of it here. When she said with a warm smile that she couldn't meet up with me, it didn't bring down my spirits slightly. In my mind I thought "just keep persisting in a cool way" which is what I did.

Her: goes into a spiel on astrology and how capricorn (me) aren't usually this forward.
Me (after her ranting for a bit on the topic): I don't know anything about this topic. We should probably meet up sometime so you can tell me more about it (with a sly smile).
Her: *smiling* um no I don't think I can meet with you.
Me: playful smile
Her: So you're a capricorn, does that mean you're in love with your ex?
Me: Uh, yeah it does. But that was 8 years ago so I'm pretty over it.
Her: yeah me too blah blah blah
Me: Hmm, we can get over it together (3rd time persisting on us meeting up some time)
Her: *smiling, pauses and looks over at my stuff* is that your stuff? Why don't you bring it over here.
Me: Ok (in retrospect I think maybe I should have said "Why don't you bring your stuff over to me" for the sake of compliance. But I went to her)

We then had a nice little afternoon chatting until the weather turned and it was time to go.

Me: So what's your number?
Her: I don't think I can give you my number.
Me: Uh...yeah you can (sly smile)
Her: I don't think I can
Me: You can give me your number. Come on, we obviously have a connection. What is it?
Her: Ok fine. It's...

I gave her a hug and she started walking away. Suddenly she spun around, pointed at me, and said "Text me!" and then trotted off.

"I will!" I said.

30 minutes later over text...
Me: Hey X it's me. It was very nice hanging with you for a bit
5 minutes later
Her: It was really nice talking to you, I appreciate you listening to my stories
Me: It was my pleasure, I still need to hear the rest of your 3some story. What're you up to after dinner with your mom, time to meet up?
Her: Hahaha that's a terrible title for it but too real. And no I don't have time later I"ve got things to do tonight what're you up to
Me: Oh ok what's your upcoming week look like? I'm making pesto

*radio silence*

24 hours later...
Me: The pesto turned out delish in case you're dying to know. Listening to emo music now and thought of you. How was your day?
30 seconds later
Her: what was the emo music? my day was good, one of my friends husbands left for the army and ive been consoling her. How's your day been?
Me: Mr Kitty...have a listen. Oh that sounds tough, good thing you're there to console her. It's been good, just worked and now making dinner.

*radio silence*

And that's it! On that last text exchange, she responded so fast I figured we would go back and forth conversationally so didn't really feel the need to "bait" her into responding with a question. I thought she'd just naturally respond with "ok I'll listen" or "yeah my friend is bummed" and then I could keep it going from there. But she just didn't respond at all which surprised me. But I'll be the first to say that my texting skills aren't great so I'm open to critiques.

Anyways, I am so pleased with myself for not getting tripped up by her "no's" and smoothly persisting to get her number that this is already a big win for me. I can see how smoothly persisting is a game changer. She was super pretty as well, which made the whole thing that much more fun. I'd love to resurrect this but am perfectly fine with it being over (or maybe she was never interested in anything more than flirtation to begin with--I don't know). Either way, it'd be cool to get any insights from you guys to help me either resurrect or simply improve for next time!

 

[Gorili]

@samanil,

Sounds like you had fun with this approach

(Kind of wished I'd said "You should lay on your front in the sun" and/or "I could pat your buns dry with my towel if you want" but that might have been too much)

Either statement would have worked (I personally like the 2nd one better) if you added "just kidding" at the end. Then use this high point to break the touch barrier by touching her shoulder, upper arm, or forearm.

Her: Um...how old are you?
Me: *suddenly realizing she is on the younger side* Guess
Her: 30
Me: Older
Her: 40
Me: You straddled my age equally on both sides
Her: Oh 35
Me: Yep
Her: How old do you think I am?
Me: Um...you are 21
Her: Good guess I'm 20.
Me: Cool.

Given the setup here, to make things a bit more playful, you could say that you're 69. Then tell her "yes, I know I look very good for my age and get a lot of compliments."

Afterwards, pre-empt her age concern by asking her how old she is. As soon as she answers, respond with "I normally go for the 60 and 70 year old grannies at my local nursing home, but maybe today's the day to try something different. Hope you're mature on the inside though. Most 20 year old's I've met behave like they're in kindergarten. You're not like that, right?" Let her qualify.

Me: Oh you're a hippy? So you wouldn't have an issue meeting up with a 35 year old then right?
Her: *smiling* are you asking if I'd meet up with you?
Me: Um...it's pretty obvious that you would, so no I'm not asking, I'm more just broaching the subject.
Her: *laughing* um no I don't think I could meet up with you.

I wouldn't have brought this up at all. This shows significant hesitation on your end and that you're worried about the age gap, which undermines your own frame. If you think there's something wrong with you guys being together, how is she going to be at ease? And aren't you guys already "meeting up" right now? This is one of those things that'll have a rippling effect on the rest of the interaction.

Her: goes into a spiel on astrology and how capricorn (me) aren't usually this forward.
Me (after her ranting for a bit on the topic): I don't know anything about this topic. We should probably meet up sometime so you can tell me more about it (with a sly smile).

Astrology is an important part of her, so I wouldn't go for a blunt response to end and change the topic. Something like "haha maybe I'm the Capricorn who's an exception" might be better.

On a separate note, what has she demonstrated to make you so eager to meet her? It seems like you're much more invested than she is, without her having to qualify / invest too much.

Her: *smiling, pauses and looks over at my stuff* is that your stuff? Why don't you bring it over here.
Me: Ok (in retrospect I think maybe I should have said "Why don't you bring your stuff over to me" for the sake of compliance. But I went to her)

I'd played it differently here and flip the script. "Hey, actually, there's this cool little part of the park with a water fountain and great view. Let's move our stuff, hang out over there, and talk. It's just a minute away from here."

The setup looks too much in her favor up to this point, without too much investment on her end.

Me: It was my pleasure, I still need to hear the rest of your 3some story. What're you up to after dinner with your mom, time to meet up?

I would remove "it was my pleasure." Sounds way too old-school and stilted, maybe even business-like. What's the 3some story?

You seem too eager to meet up compared to where her head is at. In addition, you're hard closing off the bat without testing the waters first with a soft close.

Me: Oh ok what's your upcoming week look like? I'm making pesto

Since she just brushed you off before this, I would not have asked her for her schedule right away (another hard close).

Anyways, I am so pleased with myself for not getting tripped up by her "no's" and smoothly persisting to get her number that this is already a big win for me. I can see how smoothly persisting is a game changer. She was super pretty as well, which made the whole thing that much more fun. I'd love to resurrect this but am perfectly fine with it being over (or maybe she was never interested in anything more than flirtation to begin with--I don't know). Either way, it'd be cool to get any insights from you guys to help me either resurrect or simply improve for next time!

Don't text her at all on Thursday. On Friday, send her "morning " then continue from there.

The way that I'm reading this is you've been making it too easy for her. She needs to feel like she's winning you over, and you can do that by creating more tension and challenging her on areas that you don't agree with her.

The sexual frame also seems lacking. Did you touch her? Light sex talk? Right now, it seems like you're a nice guy perfectly content with listening to her talk.

She's sucking you in and not doing things on your terms, which is not what we want.

 

[COCPORN]

I am not looking to be overly belaboring, it just seems we have forgotten some of the key tenets of game.

There are a multitude of ways to bang a girl. The collection of qualities needed to do so fruitfully and often culminate in power-frames. These are the power-frames:

- Screening
- Dominant
- Authoritative
- Provider

If you fail to steal any of these in an interaction, chances are that you are inhibiting the complementary frame:

- Permissive
- Submissive
- Suggestive
- Dependent

Look at these words really quickly. See that they are complementary, if one party is screening, the other is permissive. If one is dominant, the other is submissive. If one is authoritative, the other one is suggestive. If one is the provider, the other is a dependent.

When you see this pattern, you can use it to troubleshoot yourself.

This is not a be-all/end-all model, but let's use it to troubleshoot your scenario.

First of all: Where do you (OP) think you failed in this interaction? I WILL RESPOND TO THIS IF YOU ARE HONEST ABOUT THIS.

Because it seems like this community thinks that you can pinpoint "where it went wrong". I can very often do that, and the answer is painfully often "a lot earlier than you thought".

Also:

- You should learn to do screening game. You are being permissive and it makes it cringy. If you have to ask twice you have asked two too many times. #letmetellyouhowtogetanumber
- You don't understand logistics and meetups. Read ijjjjjjjjjjjji's post on this, your texting is extremely strange if you actually want to get laid
- When you ask a question you halt the conversation. Every question you pose is an opportunity for a conversation to go stale. Don't ask a woman questions messaging with her because it makes it super awkward to revive the conversation. Tell a Neverending story with her getting hooks she can latch on to

You seem to be overly invested in the idea that your verbals are driving your game when it is obviously not. What you say and didn't say very seldomly carries any meaning at all in this context. It is easy to conflate her laughing with her liking you. This is a lie that is propagated even with the penis-scientists in this community. Being funny does not get you laid. It is a token for authority and dominance, but if you have those you get the exact same results without being funny at all. It is a speed-of-communications-thing.

IF YOU ANSWER THE ABOVE MESSAGE, I WILL BREAK DOWN THE COMMUNICATIONS AND TELL YOU WHERE IT WENT WRONG

If you fail to understand screening game, you fail to understand game at all.

 

[Skills]

post his talking about is here (second entry)

 

[iceberg slim]

Thanks for the responses guys, fyi I changed my username for security reasons in case you're confused.

Given the setup here, to make things a bit more playful, you could say that you're 69. Then tell her "yes, I know I look very good for my age and get a lot of compliments."

Afterwards, pre-empt her age concern by asking her how old she is. As soon as she answers, respond with "I normally go for the 60 and 70 year old grannies at my local nursing home, but maybe today's the day to try something different. Hope you're mature on the inside though. Most 20 year old's I've met behave like they're in kindergarten. You're not like that, right?" Let her qualify.

This had me grinning from ear to ear--that would have been hilarious to tell her I'm 69. I will be using that next time. And the way you had her qualify herself is top notch. Excellent advice there.

I wouldn't have brought this up at all. This shows significant hesitation on your end and that you're worried about the age gap, which undermines your own frame. If you think there's something wrong with you guys being together, how is she going to be at ease? And aren't you guys already "meeting up" right now? This is one of those things that'll have a rippling effect on the rest of the interaction.

Great point. I should have let it go and moved on. I guess the truth is that it was an issue for me--I've never gotten with a girl that much younger so I felt a bit weird about it (which I demonstrated by bringing it up).

On a separate note, what has she demonstrated to make you so eager to meet her? It seems like you're much more invested than she is, without her having to qualify / invest too much.

Um, because she's hot as hell! Haha, I know that's a terrible reason and that I shouldn't pedestalize women based on their looks. But that's the truth of the matter. I try to just call girls "cute" and nothing more but if I'm being honest it was her very above average looks.

I'd played it differently here and flip the script. "Hey, actually, there's this cool little part of the park with a water fountain and great view. Let's move our stuff, hang out over there, and talk. It's just a minute away from here."

The setup looks too much in her favor up to this point, without too much investment on her end.

Yeah that would have been better. Though I'm thinking about it and there wasn't anything nearby worth going to. Small park.

I would remove "it was my pleasure." Sounds way too old-school and stilted, maybe even business-like. What's the 3some story?

You seem too eager to meet up compared to where her head is at. In addition, you're hard closing off the bat without testing the waters first with a soft close.

Yeah "it was my pleasure" sucks, you are right about that. She was telling me about how her friend and her boyfriend (who she didn't like) asked if she wanted to have a theesome with them and it was super awkward.

Can you explain what you mean by testing the waters with a "soft close"?

Don't text her at all on Thursday. On Friday, send her "morning " then continue from there.

I'll do that.

The way that I'm reading this is you've been making it too easy for her. She needs to feel like she's winning you over, and you can do that by creating more tension and challenging her on areas that you don't agree with her.

The sexual frame also seems lacking. Did you touch her? Light sex talk? Right now, it seems like you're a nice guy perfectly content with listening to her talk.

She's sucking you in and not doing things on your terms, which is not what we want.

You're right. I didn't touch her because we were sitting on separate towels a little apart from each other. How would I touch her in that scenario?

No sex talk, but we were starting to get into those topics when the weather turned. I need to learn how to incorporate sex talk faster and more smoothly.

 

[iceberg slim]

it just seems we have forgotten some of the key tenets of game.

I haven't forgotten them--I still need to figure them out

First of all: Where do you (OP) think you failed in this interaction? I WILL RESPOND TO THIS IF YOU ARE HONEST ABOUT THIS.

I think it's when I asked her if she'd be down to meet up with a 35 year old, thereby making the age gap an issue.

Because it seems like this community thinks that you can pinpoint "where it went wrong". I can very often do that, and the answer is painfully often "a lot earlier than you thought".

Please do, I'd love to hear!

- You should learn to do screening game. You are being permissive and it makes it cringy. If you have to ask twice you have asked two too many times. #letmetellyouhowtogetanumber
- You don't understand logistics and meetups. Read ijjjjjjjjjjjji's post on this, your texting is extremely strange if you actually want to get laid

If asking twice is two too many times, does that mean you shouldn't ask for a number? If so, then how do you get the number without asking? I'm curious how that would work.

I read the ijjjjj post you referred to. It's an interesting strategy, but I read Chase's 2022 text guide and he doesn't suggest doing anything like that. He says that you should simply propose a date. Do you disagree with proposing a date? I've proposed plenty of dates and had girls enthusiastically agree to meet up.

I'm curious to hear more about this "screening game"--are there any official articles on it?

 

[Gorili]

@iceberg slim,

I had an in-depth discussion with @COCPORN about this FR. At the end of the day, it all boils down to frames. Our conclusion was that the meta frame here is very off and the antithesis of how a pussy slayer would act. Let me explain before answering your other questions.

Throughout the whole interaction, the way that you presented yourself comes across as both permissive and chasing. You were seeking her approval and saw her as the prize. For example:

• Concerned about the age gap and asking her if it's ok
• Repeatedly requesting the number close when she's playing coy and barely investing
• Too content to follow her lead and spend time with her just cuz she's hot
• Letting her evaluate you and not doing too much evaluating yourself
• Very eager to meet up without digging into who she is or if she meets your standards

We think it's gonna be extremely tough to turn this one around. Even if you guys do meet up, there's a good chance that this would end up straight in the friend zone. Essentially, you're gonna need to assume the role of a screener / evaluator and present yourself as the prize (read the article that I linked above). This is a 180 degree turn from what she's seen from you so far and would likely trigger congruency concerns even if you could pull it off somehow.

Go ahead with the texting on Friday, and let's see where this goes.

Anyways, I am so pleased with myself for not getting tripped up by her "no's" and smoothly persisting to get her number that this is already a big win for me. I can see how smoothly persisting is a game changer.

This is not the right conclusion. It should have been how to number close smoothly without having to ask her multiple times...

Also, do not ask. If you're gonna verbalize, then make a statement.

Can you explain what you mean by testing the waters with a "soft close"?

Detailed soft close explanation from @Skills: https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...ft-close-and-some-mistakes-i-am-seeing.24657/

I'm surprised you guys talked for so long, but you didn't probe her logistics for the rest of the evening / day. If she told you she wouldn't be available, then you wouldn't have to see if she's available for a meetup later in the day and then get shot down. This creates negative compliance.

You're right. I didn't touch her because we were sitting on separate towels a little apart from each other. How would I touch her in that scenario?

Is this a seduction? Or are you here to let her trauma dump all over you and be a volunteer listener? Touch is important in most models.

Option 1 (after hook point): just pick up your towel and move it right next to hers so that both towels are touching.

Option 2 (after hook point and at a high point): "Hey Sabrina, why don't you move your towel right next to mine [come over hand gesture] so we can hear each other better? People walking by are gonna think that we're a bunch of weirdos if we're so far apart."

 

[iceberg slim]

Throughout the whole interaction, the way that you presented yourself comes across as both permissive and chasing. You were seeking her approval and saw her as the prize. For example:

• Concerned about the age gap and asking her if it's ok
• Repeatedly requesting the number close when she's playing coy and barely investing
• Too content to follow her lead and spend time with her just cuz she's hot
• Letting her evaluate you and not doing too much evaluating yourself
• Very eager to meet up without digging into who she is or if she meets your standards

Those all sounds pretty on the mark to me. Regarding the number close it was a "do or die" moment where the weather suddenly turned nasty and it was time to part ways (we're talking wild gusts of wind and dark storm clouds), so I had to either get her number or bid her farewell and never see her again. That's why I was persistent and why I was happy about it--because Chase himself says you need to persist hard in those do or die moments. And it just felt like good practice because I have a bad habit of just letting things go at the first "no". I'm sure I've left lays on the table due to lack of persistence.

But I get your point that it's better to smoother when possible.

I'm surprised you guys talked for so long, but you didn't probe her logistics for the rest of the evening / day. If she told you she wouldn't be available, then you wouldn't have to see if she's available for a meetup later in the day and then get shot down. This creates negative compliance.

I still need to get down quick logistics screening. I just reread Chase's article on getting her logistics within 5 minutes, so this will help ingrain it as an instinct.

Thanks for the idea of the soft close, I like that. And your idea about moving the towels closer together to get touch in is a good one. I'll use that next time.

UPDATE: Texted her on Friday but no response. I'm not surprised or bothered. This was a good learning experience! Thanks for going through it with me.

 

[COCPORN]

Hello, fellow beauties. I have trained ChatGPT to be able to troubleshoot this:

ChatGPT

A conversational AI system that listens, learns, and challenges

chatgpt.com