Are men really responsible from being low-attainability guys? Or it is female low self-confidence?

[Whiteheart]

Guy came across as unattainable if he has better look, education, intelligence, car, job, etc. i.e. anything better than women he games. BUT personal qualities don’t actually increase your value at all (because women go for behavior) they just lower your attainability.

There is that female mindset "Can a girl like me can get a guy like him"? And if you are better than her answer is NO in her head and that answer she gives you when you try to escalate. To camouflage their complexes these women will often justify how boring you are, or rude, or can’t be trusted or anything negative while she is so positive and especially some low-level guy similar to her. In my case objectively the ugliest and dumbest girls claimed that I am so boring, while they are so interesting.

It seems that personal qualities are female weapons and they don’t want to see it in hands of their partners, regardless how these guys are really warm or relatable.

So, should we really blame men (us) for women rejecting us or women because they have low confidence? Always is that guy isn’t presented himself on right way. BUT what is he tried his best and it simply wasn’t enough because she is too much insecure?
I see women rejecting quality (and also masculine, sexy) guys left and right claiming that they are so boring/unauthentic/rude while the truth is that she can’t find somebody suitable whom she will sit on head and command.

 

[Will_V]

Your whole framework is off. Women don't want to 'sit on your head and command' you. They aren't generally anywhere near as insecure as you seem to think. Your frame of 'who should be blamed' is completely and utterly off the mark, it's not a question of blame and reasoning, it's a question of technique and results, fueled by sexual desire.

Why do you even care what the most 'objectively ugliest and dumbest' girls think? They and their opinions should be completely off your radar, unless that's who you're aiming for.

I thought you were going to start posting field reports and enjoying yourself a bit more, instead we have some red-pill talking points, no actual examples, just another internet debate that doesn't actually involve taking women to bed. I refer you to the 'manosphere' for that sort of stuff, here we are focused on getting laid.

 

[Whiteheart]

Your whole framework is off. Women don't want to 'sit on your head and command' you. They aren't generally anywhere near as insecure as you seem to think. Your frame of 'who should be blamed' is completely and utterly off the mark, it's not a question of blame and reasoning, it's a question of technique and results, fueled by sexual desire.

Why do you even care what the most 'objectively ugliest and dumbest' girls think? They and their opinions should be completely off your radar, unless that's who you're aiming for.

I thought you were going to start posting field reports and enjoying yourself a bit more, instead we have some red-pill talking points, no actual examples, just another internet debate that doesn't actually involve taking women to bed. I refer you to the 'manosphere' for that sort of stuff, here we are focused on getting laid.

Thank you for this remark. Today morning I was reading some post how women reject unattainable men, associating them with all negative. If they are not insecure as you said, then there is other reason why they justify their rejections/unwilling to have anything with these men.
My post is not off. I belive that both sides are involved in seduction and that men shouldn't at all cost try to succeed with particular women, gaming and tooling bad things she is putting on his way.
Field reports are awsome, thank you for reminding me on that, just I don't belive that specific sentence guy said or didn't said is crucial for success/lack of success with that girl...

 

[Chase]

Guy came across as unattainable if he has better look, education, intelligence, car, job, etc. i.e. anything better than women he games.

Only if he doesn't know what he's doing.

Book Excerpts: Being Attainable to Women

For my first few years actively learning how to get girls, there was one thing I struggled with above all else: how to be attainable. Value I understood; be an attractive, high-value man, and women will want you. Investment was straightforward enough; get people putting in more work, and they'll...

www.girlschase.com

Attainability Woes; or, Why Girls Who Like You Reject You

Commenting on “I Can’t Get Girls Because Girls Only Want [BLANK]”, TR asks the following about girls who appear to like you, yet ultimately sabotage their interactions with you due to hang-ups: “I've noticed that even though I can have an outstanding interaction with a woman that clearly likes...

www.girlschase.com

BUT personal qualities don’t actually increase your value at all (because women go for behavior) they just lower your attainability.

Incorrect.

Valuable personal qualities raise your value. An increase in value can cause attainability problems, however.

There are also personal qualities that are not valuable, like being a coward or bitter. These qualities lower value, rather than raise. They may also make you less attainable. e.g., bitter men and women are both lower value (you wouldn't want them as a mate) and lower attainability (they're too difficult, closed off, and pessimistic to be able to acquire as mates).

There is that female mindset "Can a girl like me can get a guy like him"? And if you are better than her answer is NO in her head and that answer she gives you when you try to escalate.

Incorrect.

Unless you're saying the multimillionaire famous singers in boy bands who get mobbed by groupies on their tours and run through one small town girl after another are of equivalent value to the women they slay.

If things worked as you say, we wouldn't be teaching men to have great fundamentals and game. It'd simply put them out of the leagues of almost every girl they encountered. Instead we'd be telling them "be exactly as good as the girls you want, but no better." That is not what we're teaching men.

To camouflage their complexes these women will often justify how boring you are, or rude, or can’t be trusted or anything negative while she is so positive and especially some low-level guy similar to her. In my case objectively the ugliest and dumbest girls claimed that I am so boring, while they are so interesting.

This is called auto-rejection. Everybody does it with things that feel out of reach.

Secrets to Getting Girls: Staying Out of Auto-Rejection

These days Sebastian Drake’s VAC attraction model is all but forgotten in the seduction community. There’s been a gold rush toward “natural game” and at the same time a supposed abandonment of the previously ubiquitous “routine-based game,” the ever-present 800-pound gorilla in pick up circles...

www.girlschase.com

It seems that personal qualities are female weapons and they don’t want to see it in hands of their partners, regardless how these guys are really warm or relatable.

???

So, should we really blame men (us) for women rejecting us or women because they have low confidence?

Option C: no one gets blamed.

The girl felt the guy was out of reach. The guy lacked the ability to convince her otherwise.

No one expects men to perfectly calibrate to every woman they meet. No one expects women to perfectly accept every man they meet.

If you're improvement-oriented and you want better results with women, you can take responsibility for these outcomes. That is when you analyze the interaction and say to yourself, "How do I avoid producing reactions like that in girls who may feel less secure around you?"

But you don't blame yourself. You just take responsibility for your own improvement.

There is a big difference.

Always is that guy isn’t presented himself on right way. BUT what is he tried his best and it simply wasn’t enough because she is too much insecure?

Sure, that'll happen.

If the guy's improvement-oriented, he may want to continue improving his best, so his best is even better, and he doesn't run into this issue much or at all, even with insecure girls.

If he's not improvement-oriented, or he's improved as much as he cares to for now, or girls reacting this way are rare enough at this point it doesn't really affect him much, he may just choose to not worry about such girls, and focus on the ones who aren't reacting this way to him.

I see women rejecting quality (and also masculine, sexy) guys left and right claiming that they are so boring/unauthentic/rude while the truth is that she can’t find somebody suitable whom she will sit on head and command.

Rejection is a lot more complicated than most guys seem to realize.

A guy may look "quality" to you, but be lacking important attractive qualities for women. He may have screwed up in some key way.

"Masculinity" is also no guarantee a man will be attractive. Women can be very, very attractive to some very feminine men.

I suggest until you're getting results you want, you focus on your own interactions exclusively, rather than trying to figure out what is happening between two other people you probably only have the tiniest sliver of information about the interaction between.

Chase

 

[Whiteheart]

Only if he doesn't know what he's doing.

Book Excerpts: Being Attainable to Women

For my first few years actively learning how to get girls, there was one thing I struggled with above all else: how to be attainable. Value I understood; be an attractive, high-value man, and women will want you. Investment was straightforward enough; get people putting in more work, and they'll...

www.girlschase.com

Attainability Woes; or, Why Girls Who Like You Reject You

Commenting on “I Can’t Get Girls Because Girls Only Want [BLANK]”, TR asks the following about girls who appear to like you, yet ultimately sabotage their interactions with you due to hang-ups: “I've noticed that even though I can have an outstanding interaction with a woman that clearly likes...

www.girlschase.com

Incorrect.

Valuable personal qualities raise your value. An increase in value can cause attainability problems, however.

There are also personal qualities that are not valuable, like being a coward or bitter. These qualities lower value, rather than raise. They may also make you less attainable. e.g., bitter men and women are both lower value (you wouldn't want them as a mate) and lower attainability (they're too difficult, closed off, and pessimistic to be able to acquire as mates).



Incorrect.

Unless you're saying the multimillionaire famous singers in boy bands who get mobbed by groupies on their tours and run through one small town girl after another are of equivalent value to the women they slay.

If things worked as you say, we wouldn't be teaching men to have great fundamentals and game. It'd simply put them out of the leagues of almost every girl they encountered. Instead we'd be telling them "be exactly as good as the girls you want, but no better." That is not what we're teaching men.



This is called auto-rejection. Everybody does it with things that feel out of reach.

Secrets to Getting Girls: Staying Out of Auto-Rejection

These days Sebastian Drake’s VAC attraction model is all but forgotten in the seduction community. There’s been a gold rush toward “natural game” and at the same time a supposed abandonment of the previously ubiquitous “routine-based game,” the ever-present 800-pound gorilla in pick up circles...

www.girlschase.com

???



Option C: no one gets blamed.

The girl felt the guy was out of reach. The guy lacked the ability to convince her otherwise.

No one expects men to perfectly calibrate to every woman they meet. No one expects women to perfectly accept every man they meet.

If you're improvement-oriented and you want better results with women, you can take responsibility for these outcomes. That is when you analyze the interaction and say to yourself, "How do I avoid producing reactions like that in girls who may feel less secure around you?"

But you don't blame yourself. You just take responsibility for your own improvement.

There is a big difference.



Sure, that'll happen.

If the guy's improvement-oriented, he may want to continue improving his best, so his best is even better, and he doesn't run into this issue much or at all, even with insecure girls.

If he's not improvement-oriented, or he's improved as much as he cares to for now, or girls reacting this way are rare enough at this point it doesn't really affect him much, he may just choose to not worry about such girls, and focus on the ones who aren't reacting this way to him.



Rejection is a lot more complicated than most guys seem to realize.

A guy may look "quality" to you, but be lacking important attractive qualities for women. He may have screwed up in some key way.

"Masculinity" is also no guarantee a man will be attractive. Women can be very, very attractive to some very feminine men.

I suggest until you're getting results you want, you focus on your own interactions exclusively, rather than trying to figure out what is happening between two other people you probably only have the tiniest sliver of information about the interaction between.

Chase

Chase,

Thank you very much! I belive that you are busy, so I won't bother you with this topic.

My thing is that almost no women ever wanted to have anything relationship/sexual with me. They simply don't have any thinest idea in ther head that something could happen between us. Literally. In most cases they want just good, interesting conversation and nothing more. In rarer occasions they want some friendship until they get favors from me. If you saw my post about friendzone, all girls I meet in my life are in some of these 3 groups.

I will try to improve as you suggested, just as I said my problem is that women by default don't want anything with me. If it isn't attainability, then I must search for other reasons...

 

[ulrich]

I will try to improve as you suggested, just as I said my problem is that women by default don't want anything with me. If it isn't attainability, then I must search for other reasons...

It’s value, brother.

If you’re not getting girls at all and they all want you in the friendzone, it’s not attainability… it’s value.

“But I am a very valuable guy, I earn XXX and do XXX and I am the leader of X group of men”.

Maybe you are, but maybe you are also lacking a particular kind of value that allow you to make these women feel connected to you and allured.

Attainability problems look different.
If you have low attainability, the girl would act irrational around you and avoid you.
She wouldn’t want to face the fact that she wants you but she can’t have you.

If girls want to keep you around is because of value.
You have some, just not enough that they want to be more than friends.

 

[Whiteheart]

It’s value, brother.

If you’re not getting girls at all and they all want you in the friendzone, it’s not attainability… it’s value.

“But I am a very valuable guy, I earn XXX and do XXX and I am the leader of X group of men”.

Maybe you are, but maybe you are also lacking a particular kind of value that allow you to make these women feel connected to you and allured.

Attainability problems look different.
If you have low attainability, the girl would act irrational around you and avoid you.
She wouldn’t want to face the fact that she wants you but she can’t have you.

If girls want to keep you around is because of value.
You have some, just not enough that they want to be more than friends.

Then it is the both in my case. Value, attainability and even a combination of these two things. Majority of girls actively avoid me, unless we accidentally encounter somewhere. Then they have magnificent conversation, get entertained and leave until we accidentally meet again somewhere (low attainability and value questionable). Some other want me as non-sexual provider of resources (mediocre attainability and mediocre value). Mutual for all these women is that in their head they can’t even imagine that something happens between us, and many times I have heard "I am not interested in you" or "you don’t interest me" (I don’t know what is this, value or attainability but here it is).

What bugs me is fact that I tried everything I could to be more value and attainable and women just don’t and don’t want to see that. Like they are actively trying to muck up things for me. Every area in my life is good besides women and it only gets worsen each year.

 

[ulrich]

If that’s true and you are getting both low value and low attainability problems, I guess then there’s something about you that makes your interactions polarizing.

Is there something off in your fundamentals that is glaringly obvious (you dress weird, have a huge mole on your face, obese, stutter, etc…)?

Or is there something personality wise that is often seen under the wrong light (sarcastic, love to tease people, always very direct, etc…)?

Im guessing here but perhaps some girls do like you but for Y or X reason they think it would never work and that’s why you get those low attainability symptoms.

 

[Beck Bass]

It’s value, brother.
...
Attainability problems look different.

Totally agree. You have to up your sexual value, @Whiteheart. Maybe also you're just trying too hard, girls can tell if you're approaching every single cute girl around and not quite having a good time, this just lowers your value quite a bit (you can be shotgun approaching and have good results if you have preselection and is bouncing from girl to girl correctly, but that doesn't seem to be the case).

Seems to me like girls don't see you as a sexual option, maybe because you have some sort of bigger fundamental flaw, like the ones @ulrich mentioned, or you just act and look like too much of a nice guy, like a non-sexual person, even.

 

[Whiteheart]

If that’s true and you are getting both low value and low attainability problems, I guess then there’s something about you that makes your interactions polarizing.

Is there something off in your fundamentals that is glaringly obvious (you dress weird, have a huge mole on your face, obese, stutter, etc…)?

Or is there something personality wise that is often seen under the wrong light (sarcastic, love to tease people, always very direct, etc…)?

Im guessing here but perhaps some girls do like you but for Y or X reason they think it would never work and that’s why you get those low attainability symptoms.

No, in fact quite the opposite. Only maybe I appear too much Chadly. About personality it can be that I seem to focused on work, achievements, etc. I don’t know what situation is on West but on East, in countries in development there are a lot of fully average girls who don’t value/appreciate these personality traits, in fact it repels them, and they pursue similar to them guys rather (similar providers who will give them ordinary life).

Yes, as @Beck Bass said girls also don’t see me as sexual option. They just don’t. But what confuses me is that the more girl objectively ugly, dumb, uneducated, poor etc. is i.e. the less quality she is the less she sees me as sexual option. The most negative comments about my sexuality I got from these women. Once, a fat, ugly girl looked at me and said "look at you, you are sooo nice". I have that feeling that less quality girls (particularly less good looking or dumber) want to take revenge on me through passive aggression undermining my value.

I can’t said if my problem with sexuality is general because all women I meet were more or less the same. But lets say that there is general problem with my sexuality and from some reason women associate my appearance as being nice and asexual and thus wants nothing with me. If you can tell me what exactly I do wrong? Maybe my body language isn’t strong and sexy enough? Or my vibe isn’t strong and sexy enough (I don’t project decisiveness and horny desire enough)? The thing is I can’t fully change who am I just to get vagina. I am some quality guy, with moderate to high masculinity in himself and moderate horny who just don’t get results and can’t figure out why women don’t want him.

It seems that it is some mix of low value and attainability, but I can’t figure which one is dominant and how to fix all this mess. I had girls who would auto reject me or display all signs of disinterest as soon as they would meet me. Girls who auto-rejected me but also claimed that I am nice and boring. And girls who would be super comfortable in my presence but didn’t feel any sexual value as @Beck Bass said. You see, all kind of girls, just not some interested.

 

[Beck Bass]

The thing is I can’t fully change who am I just to get vagina

Yup, but realize we are always changing and getting more pussy wouldn't be bad, right?
I'm starting to think you're really just way too nice and doesn't project any sexual energy.
Ofc on the East women are different, could be the culture also not helping you having a good sexual value somehow.

But I don't get why you care so much what those girls think about you anyway, specially the ugly, below average ones. Fuck this hoes.
You need to learn to give less of a shit and treat women more like sexual objects, rather than just "people with power over you" (which, let's be real, they don't have, unless you're there waiting for their validation).

Could be you're just too different from the guys they screw, what type of men those women go for? If you're completely out of their target demographics, they really won't see you as a sexual option, unless you're good about changing their minds.

Anyway, I think you're just putting women in general on a pedestal, like it's cool to want to fuck some of them, but waiting for validation from every girl you see is only gonna set you up for failure. Target the women you really wanna fuck, what type of guys they go for? What can you do to look/act more like those guys? Try making friends with some guys that DO get results with women and are seem as sexual options by them. Other than that, there's not much I can say, your culture seems to be quite different and I just don't have enough details.

Peace

 

[Will_V]

No, in fact quite the opposite. Only maybe I appear too much Chadly. About personality it can be that I seem to focused on work, achievements, etc. I don’t know what situation is on West but on East, in countries in development there are a lot of fully average girls who don’t value/appreciate these personality traits, in fact it repels them, and they pursue similar to them guys rather (similar providers who will give them ordinary life).

Yes, as @Beck Bass said girls also don’t see me as sexual option. They just don’t. But what confuses me is that the more girl objectively ugly, dumb, uneducated, poor etc. is i.e. the less quality she is the less she sees me as sexual option. The most negative comments about my sexuality I got from these women. Once, a fat, ugly girl looked at me and said "look at you, you are sooo nice". I have that feeling that less quality girls (particularly less good looking or dumber) want to take revenge on me through passive aggression undermining my value.

I can’t said if my problem with sexuality is general because all women I meet were more or less the same. But lets say that there is general problem with my sexuality and from some reason women associate my appearance as being nice and asexual and thus wants nothing with me. If you can tell me what exactly I do wrong? Maybe my body language isn’t strong and sexy enough? Or my vibe isn’t strong and sexy enough (I don’t project decisiveness and horny desire enough)? The thing is I can’t fully change who am I just to get vagina. I am some quality guy, with moderate to high masculinity in himself and moderate horny who just don’t get results and can’t figure out why women don’t want him.

It seems that it is some mix of low value and attainability, but I can’t figure which one is dominant and how to fix all this mess. I had girls who would auto reject me or display all signs of disinterest as soon as they would meet me. Girls who auto-rejected me but also claimed that I am nice and boring. And girls who would be super comfortable in my presence but didn’t feel any sexual value as @Beck Bass said. You see, all kind of girls, just not some interested.

Now that you are being more specific about the problem, I can try to give a more specific reply.

First of all, you should hire a dating coach, someone you trust who you can see has a good understanding of different kinds of people and how to give them the tools they need to succeed (not just some rando with fancy tricks) and have them watch you in-person interact with women. For guys who are very good at putting themselves in a woman's shoes, figuring out kneejerk reactions and why they happen is not difficult.

I will give you my analysis of what the problem is likely to be: you project expectations rather than playfulness.

In one of the articles in Girls Chase, it talks about how women expect different things when you present yourself a different way. Specifically, it talked about how when you come across as higher social status, she expects more confidence, she expects you to be more smooth, more confident, etc. Whereas if you look low status, but she's turned on by some of your characteristics, she isn't going in expecting you to act like a complete gentleman or suave.

This is because people have ideas about the world, and they feel comfortable when those ideas are reinforced, and very uncomfortable when they are shattered. These ideas enable them to maneuver around the world successfully, adapting to different situations and taking opportunities that come in different forms.

So let's say you have a smart, well-to-do guy who has his life in order, but isn't very good with women or confident around them. This is a major red flag for them, because they know that there are lots of guys out there whose outward success in life masks some very real internal problems with themselves and their sexual life. And in particular, they know these guys tend to have high expectations that their success in some other area of life will serve as a means to obtain sex from women - this is the primary motivation for many rich or status-seeking guys.

This results in apparently successful guys who don't know how to behave around women, but nevertheless project high expectations of success with them. He cannot play with her, he cannot draw anything out of her, he cannot handle her, he may be lame, standoffish, overbearing, tryhard, weak, etc. And women cannot stand this - that's why they often go and bang broke guys or players who know how to toss them around and have fun with them, all the way through their twenties, and then only when their mum starts breathing down their necks about getting married they grudgingly go out and try to start looking for a 'successful' guy, piling on 'shit tests' and leaving scratches everywhere (not the good kind).

The solution of course is to go out of your way to learn how to play around with women, teasing her, making sexual jokes, being chill and non-reactive when she tries to provoke you, playfully touching her and (metaphorically or otherwise) pulling her hair, using push/pull, deep diving, all this sort of stuff. Then she can be comfortable around you, then she can relax and just be a woman in the currents of your desires, and let her emotions and desires take over.

But if you come in like 'I'm a successful guy, you should be turned on' 'Women just want to make things hard for me, why are you not getting turned on by my success' 'You are wrong because you'd rather date Mike who has no job, you should prefer me' and generally getting tense and reactive when she's not falling into your frame, then she's going to realize that a) you're not going to be fun and b) you're likely to expect her to do things she doesn't want to, and she's going to snap and hiss at you and make it very hard for you to be around her.

And you might say 'women treat me badly even when they haven't met me', believe me, women have social intuition that's like the nose of a hound, they can smell things from a mile away that me or you can hardly perceive when it's right in front of us. Nature created them for a purpose and gave them the tools they needed for the job. They can see in the way you walk, the way you carry yourself, the way you dress, the emotions that cross your face when you look at her, they can quickly come to a conclusion (often accurate) about what sort of guy are.

So focus on chilling out, not taking women seriously, do things with them that are enjoyable in the moment rather than trying to have them 'see' something in you that you think they should see, so that at some other time you can secure some commitment from them to go home with you and have sex with you.

 

[Whiteheart]

Now that you are being more specific about the problem, I can try to give a more specific reply.

First of all, you should hire a dating coach, someone you trust who you can see has a good understanding of different kinds of people and how to give them the tools they need to succeed (not just some rando with fancy tricks) and have them watch you in-person interact with women. For guys who are very good at putting themselves in a woman's shoes, figuring out kneejerk reactions and why they happen is not difficult.

I will give you my analysis of what the problem is likely to be: you project expectations rather than playfulness.

In one of the articles in Girls Chase, it talks about how women expect different things when you present yourself a different way. Specifically, it talked about how when you come across as higher social status, she expects more confidence, she expects you to be more smooth, more confident, etc. Whereas if you look low status, but she's turned on by some of your characteristics, she isn't going in expecting you to act like a complete gentleman or suave.

This is because people have ideas about the world, and they feel comfortable when those ideas are reinforced, and very uncomfortable when they are shattered. These ideas enable them to maneuver around the world successfully, adapting to different situations and taking opportunities that come in different forms.

So let's say you have a smart, well-to-do guy who has his life in order, but isn't very good with women or confident around them. This is a major red flag for them, because they know that there are lots of guys out there whose outward success in life masks some very real internal problems with themselves and their sexual life. And in particular, they know these guys tend to have high expectations that their success in some other area of life will serve as a means to obtain sex from women - this is the primary motivation for many rich or status-seeking guys.

This results in apparently successful guys who don't know how to behave around women, but nevertheless project high expectations of success with them. He cannot play with her, he cannot draw anything out of her, he cannot handle her, he may be lame, standoffish, overbearing, tryhard, weak, etc. And women cannot stand this - that's why they often go and bang broke guys or players who know how to toss them around and have fun with them, all the way through their twenties, and then only when their mum starts breathing down their necks about getting married they grudgingly go out and try to start looking for a 'successful' guy, piling on 'shit tests' and leaving scratches everywhere (not the good kind).

The solution of course is to go out of your way to learn how to play around with women, teasing her, making sexual jokes, being chill and non-reactive when she tries to provoke you, playfully touching her and (metaphorically or otherwise) pulling her hair, using push/pull, deep diving, all this sort of stuff. Then she can be comfortable around you, then she can relax and just be a woman in the currents of your desires, and let her emotions and desires take over.

But if you come in like 'I'm a successful guy, you should be turned on' 'Women just want to make things hard for me, why are you not getting turned on by my success' 'You are wrong because you'd rather date Mike who has no job, you should prefer me' and generally getting tense and reactive when she's not falling into your frame, then she's going to realize that a) you're not going to be fun and b) you're likely to expect her to do things she doesn't want to, and she's going to snap and hiss at you and make it very hard for you to be around her.

And you might say 'women treat me badly even when they haven't met me', believe me, women have social intuition that's like the nose of a hound, they can smell things from a mile away that me or you can hardly perceive when it's right in front of us. Nature created them for a purpose and gave them the tools they needed for the job. They can see in the way you walk, the way you carry yourself, the way you dress, the emotions that cross your face when you look at her, they can quickly come to a conclusion (often accurate) about what sort of guy are.

So focus on chilling out, not taking women seriously, do things with them that are enjoyable in the moment rather than trying to have them 'see' something in you that you think they should see, so that at some other time you can secure some commitment from them to go home with you and have sex with you.

Thank you! I will try definitively to apply advice to increase playfulness and decrease expectations. Previously, I have done a lot to increase playfulness through game, but it seems I should do this more or that maybe I should improve body language and vibe (fundamentals).

Simply, girl would be entertained with my game, we would flirt hard, hard energy would be in the air, have solid, smooth conversation and after all that she would reject me (read she was seeking for attention or all these stuffs simply didn’t give me enough attraction for her to say yes).

As you said, it seems my qualities could possible be disadvantage because she expects me to project more masculinity than guy who don’t have them. I really have never expected that girls feel sexual attraction for my social value.

As you said girls have social intuition, and based on cues from guys appearance they know what kind of guy is he. In my case it goes like this "this guy is boring husband material, but I don’t deserve him anyway because he is too quality for me so I will just reject him/get some attention from him/friend zone him in order to get some goods. Potentially, when I get much older without many options, after I finish hooking up with attractive alfa assholes and if he takes the stars from the sky for me, really works his ass to get me and proposes me, I will marry him". This is exactly, literally, how majority of women feel about me. If we succeed to adjust my appearance and game that women don’t get this mindset around me and see me instead as sexual option for lover/boyfriend/attractive husband category, we are golden.

 

[ulrich]

In my case it goes like this "this guy is boring husband material, but I don’t deserve him anyway because he is too quality for me so I will just reject him/get some attention from him/friend zone him in order to get some goods. Potentially, when I get much older without many options, after I finish hooking up with attractive alfa assholes and if he takes the stars from the sky for me, really works his ass to get me and proposes me, I will marry him".

It can’t possibly be like this.

She either thinks that you’re boring and keeps you around in the friendzone (value problems).
Or she thinks she doesn’t deserve you and decides to avoid you (attainability problems).

In your head, you’re mixing two different people into a single concept of “woman” that is inconsistent.

Which also points to another problem you have… you’re trying to figure out “women” in general.
Instead you should be telling us of particular interactions or conversations with particular women so we can help you calibrate to each particular girl.

If you’re meeting women with very different personalities and backgrounds, they are going to act differently.
You should be able to understand those differences and adapt.

 

[Whiteheart]

It can’t possibly be like this.

She either thinks that you’re boring and keeps you around in the friendzone (value problems).
Or she thinks she doesn’t deserve you and decides to avoid you (attainability problems).

In your head, you’re mixing two different people into a single concept of “woman” that is inconsistent.

Which also points to another problem you have… you’re trying to figure out “women” in general.
Instead you should be telling us of particular interactions or conversations with particular women so we can help you calibrate to each particular girl.

If you’re meeting women with very different personalities and backgrounds, they are going to act differently.
You should be able to understand those differences and adapt.

It can, believe me. I had all possible encounters and outcomes with women. Sometimes it seems to me that they also don’t know what they want from me. If you saw my previous post about asking how to make female friends, all women I meet in my life are in one of these three categories. Literally. That is all I can write generally and particularly with some girl. I could write "I said X, she said Y" but when you analyze all that it will be slotted in some of these three categories. It doesn’t matter, I will try again to make some other post, where I will more detailly describe problem, what I did, what now I do and what happens.

 

[Chase]

In my case it goes like this "this guy is boring husband material, but I don’t deserve him anyway because he is too quality for me so I will just reject him/get some attention from him/friend zone him in order to get some goods. Potentially, when I get much older without many options, after I finish hooking up with attractive alfa assholes and if he takes the stars from the sky for me, really works his ass to get me and proposes me, I will marry him". This is exactly, literally, how majority of women feel about me.

A big part of reason I moved things over to SAC was due to this issue. Too many guys get confused when you just say 'value'.

Really VAC is designed to have all three components working: V + A + C. It works fine so long as all the components are there. Huband-type guys can still get laid if they are excellent at always escalating compliance. A lot of less experienced guys though do not realize how much compliance they ought to be going for, and how powerful it is to go for a lot of it and escalate it.

The confusion comes from different types of value. Husbands have value to women, as do lovers. But women want them for different things.

I'd suggest you switch over to SAC for now, rather than worry as much about value and attainability. Make your focus similarity-arousal-compliance instead. Boring husbands are only boring husbands because they are very low in arousal. A boring husband who is extremely arousing is no longer a boring husband; he is a sexy stud she wants to sleep with with instead.

Chase