Socializing Asking for Professional Help, (that’s actually related to seduction…)

[AdamC]

Hey There...

So I am trying to Level-Up and break into new professional areas, because I have to since my industry is eating itself, and turning over. However, I am have the most challenging time getting responses back, and getting recognition that my time is valuable too!

Therefore what I am asking and looking for is a critique on my current (professional) communication, and some suggestions on how to improve it, and do follow-ups to actually get these meetings, conversations with “power people,” etcetera…

I imagine there are Guys here who know what I am talking about. I imagine Chase and Alek are two of them, but probably more, since there are similar dynamics in play with seduction, and professional communication & success.

The analogy to seduction I am seeing is like leveling-up from approaching “average girls,” who are “seemingly” more attainable in comparison to approaching high-value females, who are nice and polite, but are not respecting my time, and seeing me as a viable mating option because somehow in my communication and/or behavior I am not projecting High enough Value to be replied back to, and set up a meeting (or a date).

(Also like with the receptionist or assistant thing, it’s like having to politely go through the ugly, or gay “friend,” to actually get to the Hott Girl to ask her out, and trying figuring out the proper way to do it…

There is also a level of “inner-game,” going on here, in which I’m pushing though in saying “Hey, I know you are a fancy person whose time is “valuable,” but I am bringing value to the table as well, also in terms of my future potential- therefore my TIME is valuable too for you to respond back to me.

Right now I am going through the same process in approaching these professional “10” females who are either, right off the bat shit-testing me, basically saying “show me that my time is worth stopping for you, or even worth a date with you…” Or, I’m getting the “ohh you're sooo cute, you hit on me, that's soo cute. Alright I’ll be nice, to look nice, but I’m not going put any time or effort into you…”

Therefore I am saying to myself - “Hey wait a minute, professional “10” female - my time IS Fucking Valuable enough for you to stop for ME, and set-up a meet-up because I am bring Value to the table for the both of us, that is:
If anything, the amount of time and effort I have put into myself to go out, learn game, work on my fundamentals, go approach strangers. Get weird, even scary responses from strangers, but not be reactive, etc...etc.. is FUCKING Valuable enough for me to warrant your attention!
Most people, won't invest in that much "self awareness." - Right?

So with that in mind, here are 4, recent professional correspondences…

Professional Correspondence #1:
Corresponding with “Nice Professional Acquaintance Person”, to get in touch with a “Famous Delicious Actress” for a Photoshoot.

5/27/2024
Subject: One more question “Nice Professional Acquaintance Person!”

Hi Adam,

You are very kind, but certainly owe me nothing. I mean, if you COULD get me on a Christopher Nolan film that would be awesome and I would be indebted to you for the rest of my life (haha), but please don't go out of your way!!

I get hired by Line Producers, UPM's (mostly), and Producers. The Exec Producers rarely deal with me, unless it's a big project like “FX Channel Show” where I am very involved. Speaking of, I can't wait until they air episode two. I am dying to know if we will get a season three!

Sorry that I was not able to get further interest from “Famous Delicious Actress”. Her mom did warn me that she is pretty selective about projects. I am close with her mom but would not consider “Famous Delicious Actress” a friend. We've only spoken twice on the phone and she was a bit stand-offish and seemed somewhat reserved.

Thanks again for your kind thoughts!!!

---

I replied:

6/17/2024

Hey how are ya?

Did you get the Cat Film with the young "know-it-all" Director?

My First AD buddy “Badass Nico” turned down the Kathryn Bigalow feature in NYC, and has your info if there are any animal needs with future projects of his...

Listen, so I imagine “Famous Delicious Actress’s” Mom probably enjoys Art, and probably has some Art Folk connections I could talk to if she was acquainted with me like you are. Could we set up a conversation with her?

If not, it's totally cool - but I gotta ask right now.

Especially since none of us really can rely on Production as we use to - so we have to network and "diversify" our income...

I'm setting up similar conversations with folks like the Head Photographer of Los Angeles Apparel.

He digs my work, and we'll meet this week, hopefully.

I'm going to be connecting with “Fancy Executive Producer” at “Famous Action Actor’s” company since he's been on my exclusive photography email list since 2019 and digs my work.

There are a couple other too.

See, I'm trying to figure out 3 things:

1. How to market myself and my photography the best
2. How to break into social media and promote my work there, to ideally...
3. Break into Galleries!

Appreciate your help “Nice Professional Acquaintance Person”, and let me know how this fits.

You can share this with “Famous Delicious Actress’s” Mom, if you want, and I can resend you those "photobook images" again.

If it's a no - we are still cool, and I'm keeping my ear open to any animal opportunities for ya!

---

Never heard back.
Called twice this week but it went straight to VM, most likely because she is on-set and can’t have her phone on. But I didn’t leave a message…
What would you guys suggest now?

I am trying to leverage the “Famous Delicious Actress’s” Mom to help me get insider Gallery Contacts, but I also feel there still might be a possibility with “Famous Delicious Actress” because her reply to my photography request was “Not available at this time, but appreciate you asking…”

Usually any person at her level, or their Management will straight out say - “We’re not interested (period, don’t ask again), but thanks for asking…”

Of course “Famous Delicious Actress” is on my Fantasy Sex List. I imagine she is on A-LOT of peoples Fantasy Sex List!

---

Professional Correspondence #2:

Corresponding with “Assistant” to “Iconic Older Actor”…

4/20/2024
Subject: Mr. “Iconic Older Actor” Connection!

Hi Adam,

Unfortunately, “Iconic Older Actor” is not in Los Angeles at the moment. He's working in Europe for the next few months, and we haven't solidified when he will be returning. Sorry this did not work out, but happy to pass along a note to him from you if preferred?

Best,

“Assistant”

---

I replied:

7/11/2024

“Assistant,”

How are you?

I am following up as you suggested to schedule a conversation and hopeful "pic" with Mr. “Iconic Older Actor” if he is back in Los Angeles.

I am aware he is an Art aficionado and it would be deeply interesting to speak with him about my Fine Art Film Photography.

Especially since accomplished Production Designers and Set Decorators for projects like Nolan's "Tenet," and the show "1923" say that my work needs to be in a Gallery.

I'd be happy to share a portion of my Art Book Images with you, to pass through to him.
And let me know how we may make this connection, since his artistic incite is very valuable!

---

And, actually the Assistant got back to me:

Today:
Hi Adam!

Mr. “Iconic Older Actor” has left already for another round of extensive traveling -- with family and then for work. If you would like to write a note and include your Art Book images however, I'd be happy to pass it along to him.

Thanks so much,

Now, how to craft a good message to Mr. “Iconic Older Actor,” and what images to include??
I have two sets of images to include. the "P/C" set, and then the Gallery Set, which include the Artistic Nudes of "That One Special Girl," (who also turned out to be a successful OF Girl) of which our artistic stuff is actually Gallery worthy, which is part of my achilleas heel in terms of having to constantly see her, nude, YET, our former work together will be profitable to me, soon, once it's in the right-fit Gallery...
Probably going to go with the "P/C" set first...

Anyway.

Pretty self explanatory. To note, In the very first correspondence I clarified that the “pic” with Mr. “Iconic Older Actor” is specifically for an Elderly family friend who’s “off the grid,” and typically I HATE any photo’s with Talent or anyone, but it’s a special “pay it forward thing for the Off the Grid Family friend…”

---

Professional Correspondence #3:

Corresponding with “Product Photographer” to connect with “Creator of Iconic Female Fashion Brand ”… (Oh, and they have some of the most erotic advertisements, mainly around Los Angeles, with these reachable models, if that makes sense… I would love to Fuck some of these Models, but so would any straight male who sees their famous Billboards around town!)

7/11/2024
Subject: Meet up with you and “Creator of Iconic Female Fashion Brand”
Hey “Product Photographer”,

Just following up to see when we'd be able to connect, and have me come visit you and “Creator of Iconic Female Fashion Brand” in person down at the factory?

I am flexible right now, but I might be picked up on a show the last week or July, or first week of August, in which case it would probably be very difficult to meet up until the Production Hiatus in December.

Basically, my idea is that since I have a handful of high-end galleries, around town who I have opened conversations with regarding my own fine art photography, if I were to re-approach them with a “Creator of Iconic Female Fashion Brand ” show concept, given his notoriety with “Iconic Female Fashion Brand,” it might help the both of us in terms of he actually getting a show, and then Me and my work may be recognized well for something down the road.

Make sense?

If anything, as I reached out to the both of you in the beginning, I really respect the branding and marketing you've done, and would love to learn more about how to brand and market my own work - for the Gallery Market.

As well as get some portrait photography tips...
Appreciate your time, and let me know what we can make happen!

---

Professional Correspondence #4:

Corresponding with “Assistant” to “Famous Street Photographer ”…

7/1/2024
Subject: Fine Art Photographer

“Assistant!”

Very cool meeting you and “Friend of Photographer’s” at “Famous Street Photographer’s” show Saturday.
I really dig, “Friend of Famous Photographer’s” gray Impala.

Like we discussed, it would be great to meet again with you and “Famous Street Photographer” and get his direction on how to break into the Gallery World, as well as promote my work like he has.
Obviously, he has a leg up on me with his 30 awesome years of experience. And, I'd love to hear from him about what he has experienced throughout all these years!

Attached are my "photobook images," and below is my portfolio site.
Please let me know how we can make this connection happen, and appreciate both of your time...

No response…

Then here is the follow-up:

7/9/2024
Hey “Assistant,”

Following up from when we met at “Famous Street Photographer’s” show on La Brea a little while back.
It would be really cool to meet up with you and him and get his guidance on how to break into the Gallery World.
Please let me know what we can make happen, and appreciate your time!

Adam C
My info, etc…

---

No Response….

NOW, I have a couple older friends who are Life Coach like, who say “get out there and keep pitching, don’t stop, you have to push…”
Which is good.

However when it comes to asking them advice on stuff like - “How do I Date the Hott Actress?”
i.e. How do I seduce a High Level Hott Actress?”
The cool 1stAD friend says - “Well, you date them like you would any normal girl…”
Ahhhhhh, ok??

Yeah, sure, you don’t want to put the “Delicious Actress” on a pedestal, and ultimately treat her like a normal person, as to not chase…but I imagine there are different dynamics in play to actually get her, when someone like Chris Hemsworth might be her co-star that she hangs out with after shooting. How do you compete with someone like him??

Similarly, with another Older Friend who is successful in his own way, having grown up in poverty in Mexico in a hut and now owns his own successful service industry business with his Brother in Reseda.

How do I present myself, and score a meeting with “Fancy Producer Guy,” Or “Iconic Actor,” he’s like, well ask, and follow up, and they’re not required to respond, so you just go find the next opportunity, and ask them until you find an opportunity. But you have to keep going.
I appreciate the - Keep Going, but I still think there are more skill based things that can be done to Get In Front of these folks…

Soooo, I am interested in the groups opinions and thoughts, and perhaps this turns into another interesting, valuable discussion!

 

[PeacockMan]

Hey

I would love to provide some advise here but I am a bit confused what is your aim. Are you seeking advise to:

A. Communicate better to get a job
B. Get a hot girl from the office to want to bang you

You mentioned about getting in touch with power people, I assume you mean decision makers to get a job? If that is the case, which industry are you looking to get into? Do you have experience?

Let me know so I can see if this is an area I have experience in to provide advise or let one of the other gentlemen on here assist you better when they are able to.

Thanks

 

[topcat]

You should probably read up on how to cold email.

I also don’t see you offering much value in your emails. It’s obvious you want something but you offer nothing up front, you don’t solve any problems for them.

You’re essentially a dancing monkey in their inbox atm.

Offer some PROFESSIONAL value for free (without asking for anything in return) and see if that doesn’t skew the direction in your favour. It may not, but it’s better than stealing value whilst monkeying about in their inbox.

 

[PeacockMan]

You should probably read up on how to cold email.

I also don’t see you offering much value in your emails. It’s obvious you want something but you offer nothing up front, you don’t solve any problems for them.

You’re essentially a dancing monkey in their inbox atm.

Offer some PROFESSIONAL value for free (without asking for anything in return) and see if that doesn’t skew the direction in your favour. It may not, but it’s better than stealing value whilst monkeying about in their inbox.

I agree with this advise as well.

However, I am have the most challenging time getting responses back, and getting recognition that my time is valuable too!

Therefore what I am asking and looking for is a critique on my current (professional) communication, and some suggestions on how to improve it, and do follow-ups to actually get these meetings, conversations with “power people,” etcetera…

Based on what Topcat gathered, I figure the same but was not 100% sure when I read you post. Ok so the prospects time is valuable, that is correct. But you are making mention that your time is valuable too. The prospect does not care about your time being valuable unless you can show them how it will help to grow their business. Again, what industry are you in? I might be able to give you a few specific pointers.

 

[AdamC]

Hey TopCat, and PeacockMan.

So I have two industries that are kinda related and mixed. My dayjob is in Entertainment in Hollywood in Los Angles. And that is how I was able to make the "Delicious Actress," and "Iconic Actor" connections. Plus another "Big Time Male Actor," who I'm waiting for a connection to give me his personal assistant's info.

My Ideal industry is selling my Fine Art Photography in fancy Galleries like the ones I have approached here in town. What's interesting is that with the "Delicious Actress," when I approached a certain Gallery in January, and showed them my portrait work involving a lesser known, but still successful Actress, they pointed out the window to the "Delicious Actress's" Billboard and said - "well, if you had portrait work with her, then we might be able to talk, but otherwise - good luck." And then what do you know, the show I worked on until mid-April, the lady mentioned above is close friends with that Actresses Mom. Since the Actress politely said no, not at this time (I'm trying to be positive that's not a complete NO) I am trying to see if the Mom has Gallery/Art contacts, and maybe I could schmooze her. Although I think the friend has dropped me since she isn't responding to any of my follow-ups.

Then there is the High End Clothing company in which the Product Photographer (not the one who shoots the models) said he liked my work, and that he's trying to convince the creator of this Clothing Company to show his early modeling photography work in a Gallery like the ones I have been approaching. I tried, or was trying to pitch him that on my own watch I could try and be the liaison between him and the Galleries, since his work would have serious credibility to these galleries and by being the liaison I could ideally get credibility too.

The "Iconic Actor," is an Art Aficionado, and painter/drawer as well, and his assistant said to draft a message she would forward to him. along with my best Photobook Images, to secure a one-on-one conversation when he gets back in town, to pick his brain, and see if he has any inside contacts to Gallery people. Especially since he is an Art Aficionado.

There is a Fancy Executive Producer Guy with a blockbuster feature coming out soon, who I have requested to have a conversation with as well, but like the ugly, or bitchy gay friend of a really hott girl - the receptionist said - Ohhh, give us your info and he'll get back to you - That was a Fucking Month ago and nothing, despite sending him emails to his company address. He is, or was a fan of my photography work too, but I'm actually trying to get Entertainment Industry advice from him not photography stuff.

As for the Major Actor. I worked with him on a show 2 years ago, and he was realllly cool with the crew. My friend was the Assistant Director in Charge of him on the show, but she thinks she threw away his assistants info. I have another 1st Assistant Friend who I am having coffee with Thursday who has worked with this guy a bunch since he began getting big in the mid-nineties. But he has been hesitant to give me his info as well.

So this is all professional (for now). But what is soooo damn difficult and why I'm asking fellas like you - is how am I supposed to provide value to people, and places like this when they are already established.

I know my photography has value when accomplished production designers and set decorators from shows like "1923," and "Tenet" say - "Wow you're shit is great, it needs to be in a gallery!" And I',m like, "cool." "How do I get in a gallery?" And they're like "Ahhh, I'm a production designer, or set decorator, I don't know how to get in a galley." "But if it is in one, and it fit one of my projects, we'd definitely rent it for a production!"

(Yes, I'd love to Score the Delicious Actress, and seduce the models from the Fancy Clothing company, but that's probably a whole different post!)

 

[topcat]

Hey TopCat, and PeacockMan.

So I have two industries that are kinda related and mixed. My dayjob is in Entertainment in Hollywood in Los Angles. And that is how I was able to make the "Delicious Actress," and "Iconic Actor" connections. Plus another "Big Time Male Actor," who I'm waiting for a connection to give me his personal assistant's info.

My Ideal industry is selling my Fine Art Photography in fancy Galleries like the ones I have approached here in town. What's interesting is that with the "Delicious Actress," when I approached a certain Gallery in January, and showed them my portrait work involving a lesser known, but still successful Actress, they pointed out the window to the "Delicious Actress's" Billboard and said - "well, if you had portrait work with her, then we might be able to talk, but otherwise - good luck." And then what do you know, the show I worked on until mid-April, the lady mentioned above is close friends with that Actresses Mom. Since the Actress politely said no, not at this time (I'm trying to be positive that's not a complete NO) I am trying to see if the Mom has Gallery/Art contacts, and maybe I could schmooze her. Although I think the friend has dropped me since she isn't responding to any of my follow-ups.

Then there is the High End Clothing company in which the Product Photographer (not the one who shoots the models) said he liked my work, and that he's trying to convince the creator of this Clothing Company to show his early modeling photography work in a Gallery like the ones I have been approaching. I tried, or was trying to pitch him that on my own watch I could try and be the liaison between him and the Galleries, since his work would have serious credibility to these galleries and by being the liaison I could ideally get credibility too.

The "Iconic Actor," is an Art Aficionado, and painter/drawer as well, and his assistant said to draft a message she would forward to him. along with my best Photobook Images, to secure a one-on-one conversation when he gets back in town, to pick his brain, and see if he has any inside contacts to Gallery people. Especially since he is an Art Aficionado.

There is a Fancy Executive Producer Guy with a blockbuster feature coming out soon, who I have requested to have a conversation with as well, but like the ugly, or bitchy gay friend of a really hott girl - the receptionist said - Ohhh, give us your info and he'll get back to you - That was a Fucking Month ago and nothing, despite sending him emails to his company address. He is, or was a fan of my photography work too, but I'm actually trying to get Entertainment Industry advice from him not photography stuff.

As for the Major Actor. I worked with him on a show 2 years ago, and he was realllly cool with the crew. My friend was the Assistant Director in Charge of him on the show, but she thinks she threw away his assistants info. I have another 1st Assistant Friend who I am having coffee with Thursday who has worked with this guy a bunch since he began getting big in the mid-nineties. But he has been hesitant to give me his info as well.

So this is all professional (for now). But what is soooo damn difficult and why I'm asking fellas like you - is how am I supposed to provide value to people, and places like this when they are already established.

I know my photography has value when accomplished production designers and set decorators from shows like "1923," and "Tenet" say - "Wow you're shit is great, it needs to be in a gallery!" And I',m like, "cool." "How do I get in a gallery?" And they're like "Ahhh, I'm a production designer, or set decorator, I don't know how to get in a galley." "But if it is in one, and it fit one of my projects, we'd definitely rent it for a production!"

(Yes, I'd love to Score the Delicious Actress, and seduce the models from the Fancy Clothing company, but that's probably a whole different post!)

yeah your problem is that you’re coming at this by sucking value. You aren’t giving anything, and it sounds like you don’t know what to give.

If i were you i would start by hanging out in gallery circles attending openings and letting my face be known. Complimenting people on work that i admire, learning from others and NOT pushing my work. Be far more interested in the artists and galleries and anybody else in that circle than you are in promoting yourself. learn about people in the industry, their needs and wants, and connect them with others or help them out WITHOUT wanting anything in return. DONOT promote yourself.

eventually people will ask you who you are and what you do at which point you give them a peek. this time as a known face who gives value. somebody may return the favour. but this blatant “i need something from you” approach ain’t gunna work, professionally or in seduction.

 

[AdamC]

Interesting...Ok.

 

[StrayDog]

@AdamC what @topcat said is entirely accurate. These are people who have dozens of people coming at them daily trying to get stuff from them. Be it connections, opportunities, resources. Everything thing you are doing to get their attention, they see it constantly and they have to filter and vet everyone doing it. Unless you are adding significant value to their lives they will filter you out rather quickly. If you are a likable person, and you have talent they will be polite and take moderate note of you, because why wouldn't they? But they are not going to have a reason to do you many favors, just because they like you, unless they are just feeling particularly generous. Which is a real gamble.

Though somewhat adjacent to one another, movies and fine art are two different industries, and they function in different ways. So the way you strategize will differ a bit depending on the industry and what you want to accomplish in it.

The only way to cut through the crowd of people is to add value. Ask yourself what you can do for them. Not what they can do for you. Be generous with yourself, and don't expect something in return. Build up your relationships over time and build a reputation for being not only a talent, but a utility. Build a name for yourself.

For example, with the gallery scene. What if you volunteered to help hand out flyers for an event they are having? Or be a photographer at that event for free, just to help with their promotion and because you like what they are doing. Basically become a utility. Within reason of course. Dont always give it all away of course. Don't become known as a pushover. But do become the guy who is known to be, easy to work with, generous with his help, solves simple problems that perhaps they themselves didn't consider. You can also add value to their lives by offering help and opportunities non industry related. You just have to think about what you have to offer that would make their lives more enriched, and would appeal to their needs or values. Be persistent (in a good way), and not needy. Just always adding value where you can. Not in a supplicating kind of way. In way that makes sense and is reasonable, and respectable.

Invest in their cause, and endeavors, simply because you believe in them. Not expecting anything in return. Eventual there will be momentum behind what you are doing and someone will want to invest in you. It's a long game. Gotta play it long game.

The final ingredients is becoming an indespensable talent all on your own. The most value you can bring to a gallery is coming with an already well establish client base and a brand they can count on. So hustle your product without them and build a name for yourself. The most valuable thing you can offer a high end gallery is guaranteed sales. So prove your product offers that value, by generating it yourself.

Also, build momentum and community with people who aren't necessarily the big wigs. Collaborate and contribute to the cultural landscape in whatever way you can, and that is immediately available to you. There is strength in numbers and many opportunities to grow, right there on the ground floor.

I am sure you can see how all this can apply to the movie industry as well. I am not sure what position you are gunning for. Is it DP? that is an extremely coveted position, especially on a high profile project. Most people won't get there. But your best bet is to make work that stands out. Regardless of the gate keepers. Build solid relations where you are known to be dependable and easy to work with. Be proactive in solving small problems that add a great deal of value, and put you in the good graces of those you are looking to support you.

The rest is a bit of luck. Right place right time.

The creative industry is a fickle landscape that is always shifting. Unless you are the rare few who skyrocket to the top (which not every creative person even wants that), the truth is that it is a balancing act between following your passion projects, and keeping the lights on. Constantly jumping from one project to the next. This is true even for people who are very well established, but not necessarily household names. Most creatives have day jobs as well.

The truth about the industry is that it is not really all that glamorous. It is 90% working class people.

Here is another little secret I am going to tell you. It's not like a lot of the big wigs in a given industry only hang out with other big wigs. They are constantly brushing shoulders with folks in the industry from all walks of life. Probably even have some friends in the industry who are doing more of the ground work. The thing is. Even though these people are their friends. There is only so much they can do to help those people advance their careers. They love to help where they can, and offer opportunities and value to those that they feel genuinely are deserving of it. But in the end you just gotta do it yourself. You gotta build the connections, offer the value, make the negotiations, and generate your own momentum.

 

[StrayDog]

So just re-read your OP and figured I'd break down a bit of what I am seeing. Not saying I have all the solutions here, but just somethings that stand out to me and how I might approach it differently.

Professional Correspondence #1:
Corresponding with “Nice Professional Acquaintance Person”, to get in touch with a “Famous Delicious Actress” for a Photoshoot.

5/27/2024
Subject: One more question “Nice Professional Acquaintance Person!”

Hi Adam,

You are very kind, but certainly owe me nothing. I mean, if you COULD get me on a Christopher Nolan film that would be awesome and I would be indebted to you for the rest of my life (haha), but please don't go out of your way!!

This reads to me as "hey nice professional acquaintance person. I appreciate the correspondence and I am happy to keep you in mind and maybe do you a little favor if it makes sense. And while you certainly don't owe me anything I'm trying to make my dreams come true too and have dream projects I'd like to work on as well, and am kind of in the same position as you (hint hint)"

I get hired by Line Producers, UPM's (mostly), and Producers. The Exec Producers rarely deal with me, unless it's a big project like “FX Channel Show” where I am very involved. Speaking of, I can't wait until they air episode two. I am dying to know if we will get a season three!

this is some good rapport building as she is sharing some more personal details about her career here, but there is also a small telling detail where she is kind of saying "while I may work on bigger projects, and brush shoulders with the execs, I am also so some one who is hustling as well". I am not sure if she is intentionally trying to hint at you in this instance, but this is definitely something someone will do when they feel like someone they are in communication with could be potentially trying to use them as a stepping stone.

People with connections are often in a tenuous position themselves. Trying to leverage their position to their own advantage. While this certainly includes doing other people favors, they have to do it in a strategic way. They can't burn out all of their good graces helping everybody who is blowing up their inbox. It is a very common move to be like "Hey I'm not really in the best position to do that for you exactly".

Sorry that I was not able to get further interest from “Famous Delicious Actress”. Her mom did warn me that she is pretty selective about projects. I am close with her mom but would not consider “Famous Delicious Actress” a friend. We've only spoken twice on the phone and she was a bit stand-offish and seemed somewhat reserved.

Again "hey man I'm only friends with her mom".

She is doing the balancing act, she doesn't want to use up her good will to push someone elses work on this woman's daughter (further more, you are essential asking for a favor not only from your acquaintance, but from the models mom as well. double favor....). She is simultaneously weighing her own personal position in the situation, and deciding how valuable it would be to her to go out on a limb for you.

Honestly most people will rarely go too out on a limb for you unless the conditions are right.

Those conditions being one or a combination of the following
-your have an incredible amount of good will with them. You have added tons of value to their lives and they know you to be dependable.
-They have an incredible amount of good will with the person you are hoping they will connect you with. That person trusts your homies judgment and your homie knows that asking would not disrupt their relationship too much
-your product/skill is so undeniably solid, and you have a well developed body of work that speaks for it self that your homie can confidently stand behind it.
-If by them asking, they in return are receiving value. Be it the good will of the big wigs for having solved a problem for them (by finding you), or opportunities to work on an ambitious project, or so on.

Thanks again for your kind thoughts!!!

Personally I would have just dropped the whole thing, kept the conversation going and focused more on building rapport. Still keeping it professional, but a little more casual and less "talking business", more building commonality.

Slowly build a connection with this person over time. Checking in on them from time to just to see how their projects are going, what has them inspired, how they're doing in general. Occasionally sending them resources I feel that they might find helpful, or media that I am sure aligns with their personal taste, maybe invite them to events I know they would enjoy, or connect them with people I know are like minded, group outings, probably offer to lend a hand on a some of their projects every now and again on a purely volunteer basis. Build the relationship and good will.

All the while creating a body of work that speaks for itself. That is undeniably solid.

Then when she just happens to be with big wig models mom, and big wig models happens to be around and mentions how she is tired of the same of gigs and is looking for something new and exciting, and she knows that Adam has had interest in working with someone like big wigs model. Well then "Wait a second, if feel like I might know just thing. I know this guy Adam, he's super easy to work with but he also has this incredible vision. And honestly everything you just described. I just get this guy feeling that you two could really make something unique. He hasn't quite taken off yet, but he has a decent amount of work and it really speaks for itself". It's a no brainer. It's a win win for everyone.

The thing is. There is an element of luck involved here. So they key is to build this sort of good will with many many people so that you can increase your luck surface area. Because chances of that one thing working out with that one person are very slim.


You need a reputation that speaks for you, and a body of work that speaks for itself.

The more momentum you generate behind your own work the more value you bring to the table.

When you are cold calling/mailing people you have to be absolutely clear what exactly your value proposition is. If it is not a contract that will instantly make them hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales, then it can be something as simple as a vested interest in that person's own interests and ideas. Or an invite to a gallery opening, or some other sort of social value.

It's important to to shoot your shot when you get a chance, but you have to go one step at a time and don't pull the trigger on your sales pitch until you have the shot all lined up first. And you understand exactly what value proposition you are making.

otherwise you are just going to get lost in the sea of everyone else trying to get something, or worst yet actively repulse the people who can otherwise help you.

---

I replied:

6/17/2024

Hey how are ya?

Did you get the Cat Film with the young "know-it-all" Director?

My First AD buddy “Badass Nico” turned down the Kathryn Bigalow feature in NYC, and has your info if there are any animal needs with future projects of his...

this is all good and well and you are doing alright by showing that you are interested in helping her when you can, It's a nice gesture to pass her info on. But you aren't really offering her anything of concrete value here.

I would personally save something like this for when there is more concrete value giving potential. for Example, when I am aware that my AD buddy is actively looking for someone with her skills set. It's good to connect people in a general sense. But it is even more value giving to connect people who share a common need in that moment.

You become a value giving asset rather than the guy who is always talking about "you should meet such and such person, I'll connect you" but it's clear he is doing it more so in an attempt to gain favor. The industry is full of these people. It gets tiring and you start to filter them out like "right on thanks (this guy is name dropping but nothing ever comes of it)"

and then...

Listen, so I imagine “Famous Delicious Actress’s” Mom probably enjoys Art, and probably has some Art Folk connections I could talk to if she was acquainted with me like you are. Could we set up a conversation with her?

If not, it's totally cool - but I gotta ask right now.

you pretty much solidify the fact you are trying to gain favor "So I just offered a 'nice' gesture that is practically valueless in the big scheme, but also remember I really want this favor from you. Enough so that even after you basically implied you are not really in the sort of position to make it happen I am still going to try again"

I am not saying this sort of dogged persistence can't work some small percentage of the time. But in general it is a pretty poor strategy as it can serve to push people away quickly if it doesn't land.

Especially since none of us really can rely on Production as we use to - so we have to network and "diversify" our income...

It is true that the industry is in major flux right now, and every one is going through it, and it is definitely something to talk about when it comes up naturally. However, bringing it up in this context could potentially feel desperate. If I were reading this, especially after you have kept pressing me for favors, I wouldn't exactly come out feeling like "wow this guy really has a vision, even in the face of all these changes. He is definitely someone to stay close to, as he clearly brings value (even in small but practical ways) even when the shit is hitting the fan"

Instead I would be thinking "Okay, he is clinging to whatever he can get"

I'm setting up similar conversations with folks like the Head Photographer of Los Angeles Apparel.

He digs my work, and we'll meet this week, hopefully.

I'm going to be connecting with “Fancy Executive Producer” at “Famous Action Actor’s” company since he's been on my exclusive photography email list since 2019 and digs my work.

Okay, what do i care who is on your mailing list. Good for you. What does this have to do with me?

Not trying to harsh on you @AdamC and, there are certainly people who are gracious in their assessments of others, in that they are genuinely interested in your hustle and what you got going for you. But most people aren't going to care all that much and things like this just add to the noise because they are hearing it form every one. It's one thing if you are sitting down for a coffee and they actively ask what sort of connections you have been making. It's totally different to just casually drop it while you are asking for favors.

There are a couple other too.

See, I'm trying to figure out 3 things:

1. How to market myself and my photography the best
2. How to break into social media and promote my work there, to ideally...
3. Break into Galleries!

Again you are making this conversation about yourself and what you are trying to accomplish.

Personally, I keep my ambitions close to my chest. I would prefer that my actions speak for me. I would rather learn instead about HER AMBITIONS, her values, her struggles and needs, her inspirations, and so on. That way I can offer value propositions that speak to her specifically and solidify myself in her mind as someone who is like minded ally in the industry.

Then when the time for favors arises, it is simple and makes sense

Appreciate your help “Nice Professional Acquaintance Person”, and let me know how this fits.

You can share this with “Famous Delicious Actress’s” Mom, if you want, and I can resend you those "photobook images" again.

And here we go again. Please please please do this for me. I would be happy if she does do it for you @AdamC. Just saying, begging isn't always the best strategy (even if it does end up working in this instance)

If it's a no - we are still cool,

wait why wouldn't we be?

and I'm keeping my ear open to any animal opportunities for ya!

"I haven't actually provided any value, but I will when I can..."

---

Never heard back.
Called twice this week but it went straight to VM, most likely because she is on-set and can’t have her phone on. But I didn’t leave a message…

Proceeds to hound for favor. If I were her I wouldn't exactly be thinking "oh he must be calling because he want's to catch up" probably something for like "God, he really wants this favor from me that I already implied I don't really want to do"

Also dude, what's her mom going to do for you any way? Like, does your mom handle many of your career choices? The reason I am mentioning this is because it think it indicates a bit where your head is at. It's like you are only coming at this with this idea of "what can I get" and it is blinding a bit to the actual social dynamics at play.

I'll keep these other examples a little more brief, but i still want to touch on a few small things

Professional Correspondence #2:

Corresponding with “Assistant” to “Iconic Older Actor”…

4/20/2024
Subject: Mr. “Iconic Older Actor” Connection!

Hi Adam,

Unfortunately, “Iconic Older Actor” is not in Los Angeles at the moment. He's working in Europe for the next few months, and we haven't solidified when he will be returning. Sorry this did not work out, but happy to pass along a note to him from you if preferred?

Best,

“Assistant”

---

I replied:

7/11/2024

“Assistant,”

How are you?

I am following up as you suggested to schedule a conversation and hopeful "pic" with Mr. “Iconic Older Actor” if he is back in Los Angeles.

I am aware he is an Art aficionado and it would be deeply interesting to speak with him about my Fine Art Film Photography.

Especially since accomplished Production Designers and Set Decorators for projects like Nolan's "Tenet," and the show "1923" say that my work needs to be in a Gallery.

I'd be happy to share a portion of my Art Book Images with you, to pass through to him.
And let me know how we may make this connection, since his artistic incite is very valuable!

---

And, actually the Assistant got back to me:

Today:
Hi Adam!

Mr. “Iconic Older Actor” has left already for another round of extensive traveling -- with family and then for work. If you would like to write a note and include your Art Book images however, I'd be happy to pass it along to him.

Thanks so much,

Now, how to craft a good message to Mr. “Iconic Older Actor,” and what images to include??
I have two sets of images to include. the "P/C" set, and then the Gallery Set, which include the Artistic Nudes of "That One Special Girl," (who also turned out to be a successful OF Girl) of which our artistic stuff is actually Gallery worthy, which is part of my achilleas heel in terms of having to constantly see her, nude, YET, our former work together will be profitable to me, soon, once it's in the right-fit Gallery...
Probably going to go with the "P/C" set first...

Anyway.

Pretty self explanatory. To note, In the very first correspondence I clarified that the “pic” with Mr. “Iconic Older Actor” is specifically for an Elderly family friend who’s “off the grid,” and typically I HATE any photo’s with Talent or anyone, but it’s a special “pay it forward thing for the Off the Grid Family friend…”

Interaction feels a little more neutral, and less of you coming across as sucking value as the first one. This is pretty standard industry stuff where you just keep putting it out there. Sometimes it can land, but it is a low probability game over all. The assistant very well could pass your work on, but weather the actor actually takes a liking enough to invest in you is a big gamble. You aren't exactly offering any specific value that is personalized, so you are banking on your talent alone to speak to him. It doesn't hurt to put your work out like this, but you have to understand that you are more likely to grab someone of this statures attention either by word of mouth through your reputation. Or by building a bit of clout on your own (online following/ dominating art fairs).

Perhaps building some genuine rapport with the assistant could have helped. breaking assistant out of auto pilot a bit. making an impression before sending them off with the tasks of passing your work along. Treating assistant not just as a stepping stone, but a genuine interest. A potential ally.

Professional Correspondence #3:

Corresponding with “Product Photographer” to connect with “Creator of Iconic Female Fashion Brand ”… (Oh, and they have some of the most erotic advertisements, mainly around Los Angeles, with these reachable models, if that makes sense… I would love to Fuck some of these Models, but so would any straight male who sees their famous Billboards around town!)

7/11/2024
Subject: Meet up with you and “Creator of Iconic Female Fashion Brand”
Hey “Product Photographer”,

Just following up to see when we'd be able to connect, and have me come visit you and “Creator of Iconic Female Fashion Brand” in person down at the factory?

I am flexible right now, but I might be picked up on a show the last week or July, or first week of August, in which case it would probably be very difficult to meet up until the Production Hiatus in December.

You haven't even built a bit of momentum/ rapport in this correspondence and you are already putting time constraints on the interaction. This would come across to me as slightly pushy and presumptuous. Especially since we have yet establish a mutually beneficial intent for said visit.

Basically, my idea is that since I have a handful of high-end galleries, around town who I have opened conversations with regarding my own fine art photography, if I were to re-approach them with a “Creator of Iconic Female Fashion Brand ” show concept, given his notoriety with “Iconic Female Fashion Brand,” it might help the both of us in terms of he actually getting a show, and then Me and my work may be recognized well for something down the road.

What exactly is your value proposition here? You be able to convince these high end galleries to show your work if his name is attached to it as well? It is a very vague value proposition

If you can't find a value proposition that will advance your career, and also speaks directly to a need of the person you are proposition, in a clear concrete way, then try instead to offer value that has nothing to do with your own advancement.

Like maybe offer be a free camera assistant on one of his shoots. Or even just a gopher who grabs coffee.

Anything that will help you to build rapport with the person and get, get more in their graces, discover their individualized needs, and so on. Then you can start escalating your value propositions "Hey, I noticed you need this one thing/ were about this one thing/ inspired by this one thing/ Thought I'd share this one thing of value with you" and so on.

Long game.

Then maybe, at some point when it makes sense and you have a value proposition that speaks to their individual needs, and also happens to advance your career, you shoot your shot.

Or if you have just earned enough good graces, you might be able to ask them to go out on a limb and straight up just do a favor for you.

Professional Correspondence #4:

Corresponding with “Assistant” to “Famous Street Photographer ”…

7/1/2024
Subject: Fine Art Photographer

“Assistant!”

Very cool meeting you and “Friend of Photographer’s” at “Famous Street Photographer’s” show Saturday.
I really dig, “Friend of Famous Photographer’s” gray Impala.

Like we discussed, it would be great to meet again with you and “Famous Street Photographer” and get his direction on how to break into the Gallery World, as well as promote my work like he has.
Obviously, he has a leg up on me with his 30 awesome years of experience. And, I'd love to hear from him about what he has experienced throughout all these years!

Attached are my "photobook images," and below is my portfolio site.
Please let me know how we can make this connection happen, and appreciate both of your time...

No response…

Then here is the follow-up:

7/9/2024
Hey “Assistant,”

Following up from when we met at “Famous Street Photographer’s” show on La Brea a little while back.
It would be really cool to meet up with you and him and get his guidance on how to break into the Gallery World.
Please let me know what we can make happen, and appreciate your time!

Adam C
My info, etc…

Similar deal with this one.

In general I would approach it more like I was an investigator trying to success out what specific needs each potential connection might have, and speak to those. Just get to know the people in the scene with no agenda and offer value where I can. All the while creating a body of work that speaks for itself, and a grass roots momentum behind it.

Also, if you do get some good advice from some of these established heads, be sure to apply it. For mentors, sometimes just having someone who takes what they give them and runs with it is value enough for them.

Just my two cents. Thanks for entertaining them.

 

[StrayDog]

one last pointer here. Keep a file on everyone you meet. Whenever you are done interacting with them, write down all the important small details about them. Their interests, motivations, personality quirks, inspirations, personal history. You never know when that info will come in handy and help you to add value to their lives.

 

[AdamC]

Wow, that is an in depth break-down.
I hope I'm not the only one "gaining real value" from it.
Good stuff Man. It's why I asked.
I might reply back with some nuances to just fine tune this new strategy...

 

[AdamC]

Hey there Fellas,

So I have somewhat of an update.
I visited one of Los Angeles's premiere photography galleries and talked with the curator who suggested I lookup and submit my photography artbook photos via email to popular galleries in 8 major cities such as San Francisco, Dallas, Miami, New York, Toronto, London, Seattle, and Vancouver.

He said that Art Photography is a very niche market, and that it has small market-share in the Los Angeles market, however it is more popular in other cities.

He said to write a pitch, and attach the best photobook images and send it off.

NOW, what he didn't say is what to say in the pitch.
Likewise, he wouldn't answer the difficult question I have - based on what I get from visiting galleries here, of - "Well, we don't review unsolicited work, and you have to be in a gallery (already) to get reviewed by our gallery..."

Maybe it's kinda like a shit-test from a really high end girl. Or if a girl on the approach is like - "Don't even approach me if you aren't Patrick Mahomes, can't fly me in a helicopter, or can't take me to the Red Carpet thing at the Chinese Mann Theatre like Ryan Gosling did last year..."
And my response internally is - "Fuck you Bitch, don't tell me what to do, I'm my own Man = I'll approach you if I want!"
Now it still might not work out.
But, I can sleep better knowing I approached.

Same thing here with the Galleries, however there has to be a smooth way to "Cold Approach" via email.
Especially since I can't visit them like I can the ones in the LA area.
Likewise it would be hard for me to offer value to a Gallery in Toronto in the form of volunteering when I live in LA - that would be a tough commute.

However the Value I have is my photography work. And I know it has value!!!

So for those sales folks out there. How do you craft a cold approach email like this, that does provide value?

Curious to hear your thoughts.

AND - what do you say to the girl who actually does say - "Don't even approach me if you aren't Patrick Mahomes, can't fly me in a helicopter, or can't take me to the Red Carpet thing at the Chinese Mann Theatre like Ryan Gosling did last year..." Or along them lines?

 

[topcat]

Hey there Fellas,

So I have somewhat of an update.
I visited one of Los Angeles's premiere photography galleries and talked with the curator who suggested I lookup and submit my photography artbook photos via email to popular galleries in 8 major cities such as San Francisco, Dallas, Miami, New York, Toronto, London, Seattle, and Vancouver.

He said that Art Photography is a very niche market, and that it has small market-share in the Los Angeles market, however it is more popular in other cities.

He said to write a pitch, and attach the best photobook images and send it off.

NOW, what he didn't say is what to say in the pitch.
Likewise, he wouldn't answer the difficult question I have - based on what I get from visiting galleries here, of - "Well, we don't review unsolicited work, and you have to be in a gallery (already) to get reviewed by our gallery..."

Maybe it's kinda like a shit-test from a really high end girl. Or if a girl on the approach is like - "Don't even approach me if you aren't Patrick Mahomes, can't fly me in a helicopter, or can't take me to the Red Carpet thing at the Chinese Mann Theatre like Ryan Gosling did last year..."
And my response internally is - "Fuck you Bitch, don't tell me what to do, I'm my own Man = I'll approach you if I want!"
Now it still might not work out.
But, I can sleep better knowing I approached.

Same thing here with the Galleries, however there has to be a smooth way to "Cold Approach" via email.
Especially since I can't visit them like I can the ones in the LA area.
Likewise it would be hard for me to offer value to a Gallery in Toronto in the form of volunteering when I live in LA - that would be a tough commute.

However the Value I have is my photography work. And I know it has value!!!

So for those sales folks out there. How do you craft a cold approach email like this, that does provide value?

Curious to hear your thoughts.

AND - what do you say to the girl who actually does say - "Don't even approach me if you aren't Patrick Mahomes, can't fly me in a helicopter, or can't take me to the Red Carpet thing at the Chinese Mann Theatre like Ryan Gosling did last year..." Or along them lines?

Girls and galleries aren’t the same thing. You and every other photographer knows their photography has value. The proof is in the sales however..

A gallery’s intention is to sell works. Most art doesn’t sell however. Being risk averse galleries are unlikely to take a chance on an artist that has very little as far as a selling track record, hence the "Well, we don't review unsolicited work, and you have to be in a gallery (already) to get reviewed by our gallery...". They want artists that are already validated by the market.

Knowing this, your cold emails, need to communicate how you are generating sales and communicate why their gallery representation is necessary to your career AND how you will drive sales to their gallery.

You might be better off funding your own solo shows, joining group shows (submitting to open calls and residencies) and see if you can’t drum up interest and find buyers that way. Galleries will be more likely to show interest if they see their is demand for your work. Remember that they are businesses first and foremost.

Targeting “artist run” spaces may also be an easier in as they’re primary motivation is artistic integrity over profit.

 

[StrayDog]

What is your understanding of the art market today, and what are your motivations to get into a Gallery?

Gallery representation isn't quite what it was, say 15 years ago. What with the advent of smart phones and social media and all that. It serves a very different role in the market these days, than what it traditionally did. Even though we still tend to view galleries in that light.

Galleries are just A means of distribution, rather than THE means of distribution. As they used to be And while they can come with a lot of perks, like a built in list of leads, it also has caveats like giving them a large cut of sales and (often. especially with more high end galleries) exclusive rights to distribution of your work while you are being represented by that gallery.

Don't get me wrong. The influence and power of gallery representation can be very beneficial. But it is not exactly the big break that many artists believe it will be. There is only so much the gallery will do for you. You still have to work hard to sell your art.

On the flip side, from the galleries perspective, the market is extremely over saturated. Also, not only is there a lot of competition in the market for the product (the art) but there is a lot of competition for distribution (social media, art markets, online shops, other galleries). So, every artists work they put on their walls is a liability, because they could potentially have thousands of other artists taking up wall space and social resources. They have be very calculating what return they can expect to see. Not only in terms or money, but also social capital.

They need to be sure that the artists work fit in with their established curatorial portfolio. So that they can be sure that the leads they have generated over the years will be actually interested in buy your work. They also want to know that your work has to potential to draw new clients to their gallery.

So they will be looking for artists that have an audience that is similar to or adjacent to their current established audience.

Some galleries will be more open to taking risks than others. But it is very calculated.

You also have to understand that there are tiers of galleries. Some being way more accessible than others.

On the low end you have coffee shops and art markets and places like that very open to selling showcasing art for the sake of it.

On the high end you have these big name galleries which are essential built on strictly on marketing. It is all about brand and brand performance. And if you dig deeper, it actually gets pretty crazy. The high end art market has essentially become a simple way for mega rich people to legally "launder" money. It's pretty wild stuff. But any way, the point of bringing that up is that high end art market is actually all smoke and mirrors.

Then there are medium tier galleries, which is where 90% of decently successful artists will be. And you have to understand that being represented in these galleries is not not the be all end all. You are still going to have to hustle to keep your career moving.

I have known tons of people with gallery representation, and even some photographers who do photoshoots with big wig movie stars and the like. It is a constant hustle. Multiple income streams, chasing the market, working side jobs, and sometimes even a day job. Don't get me wrong, some of them are doing quite well for themselves. But it is a hustle.

I am telling you all of this so you can't get a sense of the artist/gallery relationship, and also just a sense of the what it takes to build that.

It is a hustle, and the sooner you get that hustle going for yourself, the sooner you will be able to make pitches that appeal to that artist/gallery relationship. But as long as you are just cold pitching galleries with a product that has barely been to market you are going to have a lot of trouble angling your pitch in a manner that makes sense to them. Unless you have also generated tons of good will and personal reputation (and even then that is just one piece of the puzzle).

If you want to get in high end galleries your best bet is to start low. Sell your work on any platform you can immediately access. Coffee shops/art fairs/social media/ DIY art co-ops. Keep hustling and tweaking your brand.

Fine art photography is super niche. It will take a lot of hard work to build momentum.

Once you have a bit of a built in audience. Find a gallery that fills a similar niche in the market, has a curatorial tradition in which you can see your work adding nicely to, and has price points that make sense given your current track record. That is what will drive your pitch.

Once you have representation with a small time gallery, you build from there.

This is why galleries say that you need to already have representation before they themselves will represent you. They need to see your track record. They need to know that your work makes sense for their gallery.

Yes, you can MAYBE skip these steps if you luck out and some big wig decides they are going to take a risk and break you, even though you are small time. But, this is very rare and depends on luck. Hence my suggestion of maximizing your luck surface ratio by building a ton of good will and a solid reputation.

There are no short cuts, and unless you can show a gallery exactly what value your work has on the market, and how your work fits into their corner of the market, you are going to have a tough time selling them on your pitch.

It's all long game. The social capital aspect, the brand building aspect, the sales aspect. Art as a career is a long game, and it can be a very bumpy road. So strap in.

Not saying you can't become one of the chosen few, but I wouldn't concern myself with that until you are actually close to it.

Until then hustle, and build your relations. Take each day at a time.

 

[James D]

Read $100 Leads by Alex Hormozi.

 

[topcat]

 

[topcat]

 

[StrayDog]

@topcat solid videos. pretty much sums it all up

also @AdamC it would do well to note that commercial photography and fine art photography are distinctly different markets, and building momentum in each one has different set of challenges and requirements. Since you seem to have expressed interest in both.

Not all commercially successful photographers have work in galleries, and vice versa. You can do both, but success in one doesn't necessarily mean success in the other. Therefore each one needs to be treated as it's own endeavor. Understand that success in either is quite the hill to climb. Tackling both at the same time would have a unique set of challenges. While there may be SOME overlap, it is important not to get it twisted. Fine art and commercial work are two different beasts.

 

[AdamC]

Again, very through and I'm reviewing the attached videos.
Appreciate the direction, and I'll keep you guys posted!