Attainability and Moving Fast

[Jan]

I have recently been educating myself about attainability from Chase's and Hector's materials.

One thing which I can't comprehend is the advice of 'moving fast' when your attainability is too low.

How moving fast improves attainability? Ok, I understand that moving too slow will result in her deciding in her mind that I may not be that interested in her. Otherwise, I would have made a move already.

On the other hand, I have frequently encountered plenty of resistance when moving too fast, too physical, too sexual. I explained this to myself, that when I was moving too fast, I ignored her need for comfort, for connection, for getting to know each other. Also, I thought I forced ASD on her by moving too fast.

Also, when I deliberately slowed down - for example, by extending the seduction process from having a goal for a first date sex, to having a goal for sex on the second or third date, I had more success.

What is it that I don't get? How does moving fast improves attainability?

 

[DarkKnight]

You need to move fast when you get escalation windows, otherwise you need to be responsive to her cues. For instance I walk up to a girl who does not have yet noticed me and I could not pre-open due to whatever reason. She acts aloof and distant ( not a rejection yet, girl can be surprised and not ready, in different headspace or whatever). Then I talk with others get some good preselection or social boost, meanwhile the girl who is keeping tabs on me because she now knows me as a person instead of random npc starts to get attracted. Girl gets jealous or excited and you re-engage in suave manner. Now she gives escalation window and then you move fast without fucking around otherwise she figures she got the wrong idea about you.

You need to respond to her cues and you can also get her to give you cues or feel something, hence game.

Anyway this is just a basic example.. you need to make your mistakes and learn calibration, but I do understand your confusio.. back in the day when I read this advice I started to rush interactions.. which is obviously uncalibrated.

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Your case is similar to mine. After getting indoctrinated into the "move fast" mantra by Chase, I went guns blazing: too sexual, too fast etc. Like you i also skipped comfort and connection

It triggered Asd, lmr. And made me look playerish. I had some success but i had to handle a ton of resistance.

What helped me overcome these issues were reading:

- @Chase articles on deep dive and connections. Plus his comments here

- @Teevster article on comfort makes arousal easier and possible

- @Karea Ricardus D. And @Warped Mindless Comments on telling/showing her why you like her with genuine interest

Now, i consistently close on first dates with very little issues.

So i think building more comfort/connection and dialing down the sexual stuff a bit (become more calibrated) could help

 

[Chase]

Nice responses from @DarkKnight and @PaulieFlyn10.

One other point of nuance I would make, @Jan, that is super important, is that the advice is not "move fast" but "move fastER."

Whatever speed you are moving at, if you are like most guys, it is probably too slow (especially around those escalation windows, as DK notes).

But you aren't trying to turn into a speed demon. Instead you are looking for places in your seductions when you can do things a little faster.

Then a little faster than that. Then a little bit more.

It takes some time to figure out where you can pick the pace up and where you can't because the girl isn't ready for things to progress just yet.

Chase

 

[Jan]

Nice responses from @DarkKnight and @PaulieFlyn10.

One other point of nuance I would make, @Jan, that is super important, is that the advice is not "move fast" but "move fastER."

Whatever speed you are moving at, if you are like most guys, it is probably too slow (especially around those escalation windows, as DK notes).

But you aren't trying to turn into a speed demon. Instead you are looking for places in your seductions when you can do things a little faster.

Then a little faster than that. Then a little bit more.

It takes some time to figure out where you can pick the pace up and where you can't because the girl isn't ready for things to pogress just yet.

Chase

I get your point regarding pacing of interactions. However, I still don't get how moving faster when moving faster is deemed right by her signals, affects attainability.

 

[Chase]

@Jan,

One thing which I can't comprehend is the advice of 'moving fast' when your attainability is too low.

Where did you pick up this particular piece of advice from?

Chase

 

[DarkKnight]

@Jan,



Where did you pick up this particular piece of advice from?

Chase

Chase bit of an interrupt but I am realllly looking forward to that continuation of the preselection article, has become quite a cliffhanger

 

[Jan]

Where did you pick up this particular piece of advice from?

Where did you pick up this particular piece of advice from?

@Chase

See Hector's comment on this thread.

"If you're not fucking girls on the first date, they're getting self-conscious. That's why they're going cold on you."

I may be wrong but I think I've also seen this advice in one of your materials, however I can't recall where exactly.

Advanced Technique - What to do when you are exceptionally good looking guy?

So i'm this guy, great pretty boy eyes, masculine jawline etc. I'm in my late twenties, i'm 6ft, 200lbs slim-muscular, weightlifting for 5 years now. I dress well, groom well, hair is done properly, medium length. I can be extremely witty, warm, funny and kind. I'm very familiar with the game...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Chase]

@Jan,

Okay, I see where your confusion comes from.

The guy in that thread had great fundamentals, date experiences, connection, etc. -- basically the women he was taking out were all very into him.

His one attainability issue was he was failing to qualify girls properly, so he was dealing with attainability issues.

At the same time, because they were so attracted, if he could not handle attainability AND move fast, they'd go into auto-rejection.

He had two problems to solve:

1. He has to move faster than he is to get the girl. If he goes as slow as he has been girls will continue to auto-reject him
   
   
2. However, before he can move faster, first he needs to qualify girls, so he becomes attainable enough they will allow forward progress

Moving faster does not solve his attainability problems in the moment. It solves them after the fact, when she is thinking, "Wow, that was great, he really wanted me and we got together!" instead of, "I knew it. I was an idiot thinking a guy like that could want me. I feel humiliated for even going out with him then having him not make a move like that."

Before he can move faster, he needs to solve his in-the-moment attainability issues, which revolve around girls thinking he is out of their league.

Chase

 

[Chase]

@DarkKnight,

Chase bit of an interrupt but I am realllly looking forward to that continuation of the preselection article, has become quite a cliffhanger

lol, all right, I'll see what I can do

 

[Rakehell]

Before he can move faster, he needs to solve his in-the-moment attainability issues, which revolve around girls thinking he is out of their league.

I’ve never seen it broken down like that.

What would you say is the best way to handle the ‘in the moment attainability issue in those types of situations?

 

[Searcher]

Considering this article is about attainability I have a question.

Most of my interactions my focus is to DHV myself as much as possible while also teasing and chase framing the girl to reduce my attainability and increase my value.

At what point do you know you have increased value enough to be considered attractive and not an average guy?

Is it better to reach a point where your value is sky high and then work on maintaining attainability? (As in take attainability until auto rejection and then work on it)

 

[Jan]

@Chase

Great, that makes total sense. Thank you.

 

[Chase]

@Rakehell,

I’ve never seen it broken down like that.

What would you say is the best way to handle the ‘in the moment attainability issue in those types of situations?

That guy's problem was girls felt he was out of their league.

If he tries to move faster by escalating things at that point, it just cements their alienation: "Wait. This guy's too good for me. Why is he trying to hook up like this? Is this a game to him? Is he just fucking with me? Or is he going to pump-and-dump me?"

He needs to be qualifying them and otherwise communicating things that up attainability:

1. Is this for real?
2. Does he respect me as a friend?
3. Can a girl like me get a guy like him?

Any attainability tech works here, but qualifying her seems like it'd be the most usable.

(and actually, technically speaking, if he just starts qualifying her sooner/faster, then he is still moving faster... just not presumably in the way Jan was thinking, which I take it to be things like getting her to sit with him, move around with him, change venues with him, come home with him, kiss him, etc. Watch any high-skilled fast moving seducer and you will typically see them qualifying women very quickly and often: "You know you have this very nice blah blah blah some thing that feels unique to her" "I really like that you blah blah observation particular to her" etc.)


@Sully,

Considering this article is about attainability I have a question.

Most of my interactions my focus is to DHV myself as much as possible while also teasing and chase framing the girl to reduce my attainability and increase my value.

At what point do you know you have increased value enough to be considered attractive and not an average guy?

Is it better to reach a point where your value is sky high and then work on maintaining attainability? (As in take attainability until auto rejection and then work on it)

Here's the rule of thumb for roughly telling where you are at attainability-wise:

1. If girls reject you by being very nice, gentle, and polite, your value is too low / attainability is too high
   
   
2. If girls reject you by getting annoyed, pissed off, rude, and especially ice cold, your attainability is too low (value may or may not be too high)

But as far as value proper... are the girls you want into you? Do they check you out, send you signals, act happy when you approach, etc.?

If so, your value is in good shape. If not, it needs work.

Chase

 

[Railer]

Wanted to find out what auto-rejection felt like, but search sent me here instead and the described misunderstanding of moving fast might as well be my current sticking point.

I actually hope it is, as the other option would be me having become uninteresting - which is how I am feeling at the moment.

---

Got details from many girls over the last month. The one I liked most responded a lot - and very well - even when I paused texting for a week and the re-initiated. Besides some fluff I was pushing for a date pretty much every time. At some point she just stopped responding.

Many others wouldn’t respond at all when texting after the first meet.

One would respond well, but after trying for a day to set up a meet, I just "threw the ball in her court" and left it there - I had simply become tired of all the texting going nowhere.

In the end the only time I got sexual so far was with the two girls that were horny for me and didn’t seem to care much about anything but get laid - even if it meant sharing me.

---

Then, with yet another, there was a very curious incident, I had already written it off as some peculiarity, but maybe it is of more significance than I think:

Seems attracted and then says doesn’t want to drag me into anything