Attraction is not Enough: The Vast Distance from Attraction/Arousal > Sex

[James Cruse]

Most of the seduction community is focused heavily on “ATTRACTION” rather than focusing on noticing attraction as a: start to the seduction, an opening, a foot in the door - rather than an inevitable signal sex is about to happen.



Alot of men think: “Oh, she’s attracted. I’ll do some other things to lock her in (for sex later) & then cautiously scale back (the seduction) to taking no risks before I inevitably sleep with her.”



“Then I’ll get her number and see her another day, so I can collect MORE phone numbers today. That’s the logical way to get more women and have more sex:

Simple Attraction (from her) + Volume of Phone Numbers/Contact Info = Lots of Sex”.



Alot of guys think when they meet a woman attracted to them:

“well, she likes me, she’s obviously attracted to me: why isn’t she fucking me now or soon?

Why isn’t she making sex easy and obvious? Maybe she doesn’t like me? I thought she would jump straight in my lap for sex - not long after she became attracted”

I think this is why guys are so confused by women’s signals towards them - then men conclude none of these attraction signals are reliable (or even real).



But at the same time, he’s confused why sex isn’t happening now or why she’s not being clear about her desire for sex.

So many guys see signals of women’s interest but ignore them because sex didn’t follow those signals in the past, so men discount them or ignore those same genuine attraction signals in future, due to past failure to convert those signals to sex.


Attraction & The Seduction Industry

Most of the seduction industry has been very unfocused or muddy on getting from attraction to > sex.

They treat attraction as this very difficult thing to “achieve” then treat the journey from attraction to sex as an afterthought or this long production of a date, first date, texting, etc.



I think the dirty bad faith secret about the seduction industry, seduction coaches & seduction products is that many of them promise to be able to get you “attraction” from women, which is such a very standard they can easily achieve but doesn’t really convert into significantly more sex.



When the students then inevitably learns the attraction techniques and comes back to the coach and says,

“But I had all these women *attracted* to me but I only slept with one/none”



Then the seduction coach or material says, “Oh well, you got attraction - it’s your fault you didn’t sleep with her. Once attraction happens - it’s all downhill to sex once attraction is established. OR

“Once you establish ‘Attraction’, sex will inevitably and eventually follow”

- this is blatantly untrue and overly logical and male centric way of viewing women that simply doesn’t comport with women’s actual real world behaviour.



The Most Difficult Part of Seduction

The most difficult aspect of seduction, what seduction ACTUALLY is:



Is converting attraction to Sex/a sexual Relationship.



So many guys sit back and relax once they know a woman is attracted to them: but ‘Attraction’ is like the first 10-20% of the seduction, the other 80% > is converting that attraction to sex (this is the most difficult part).



I assure you, that many attractive women you guys have walked past were secretly or openly attracted to you.



I guarantee you the same with many women you cold approached - they were attracted to you in the first 10-30 seconds, with some women recognising their attaction in the first 30 secs- 1 minute.



I know this because I’ve had good looking & average male friends complain that no women are “attracted to them” or have “any interest in them”

I go out with them and I literally point out so many attractive women that look my friend up & down, sneaking looks at him, lick their lips, body scanning him, completely changing her posture & movements at his presence; with her deeply attracted.



I tell them tell my friends I’ve observed this attraction and they approach these women (and surprise): the woman WAS attracted, even moreso after he was confident enough to approach her, but she wouldn’t just jump in his lap and fuck him. Men have this odd distorted idea of how women behave when they’re attracted to a man: men think she’ll usually be very obvious, very forward in her advances, she’ll escalate and make it very clear for you - then remove ALL of the obstacles in the way: simply because she’s ‘Attracted’.



So the man hasn’t bothered to be seductive and she’s attracted but sex never (or rarely) eventuates with her.

This same process happens over and over again with normal guys and even guys in the seduction community.



They ask me, “James, you’re right, girls are attracted to me, but it’s weird, because they won’t have sex with me”



Yes, guys expect that when women are attracted to them = Women are going to fuck them (because this is how men logically view attraction towards women but women don’t view their attraction to men this way).



Any guy that says to you,

“Oh, I got attraction from this woman or that woman, but we never had sex”



My response is: Who cares? That happens to every guy here - every day.

What Men Misunderstand About ‘Attraction’ & Successful Seducers

Guys that are actually skillfully seductive - convert MORE of that attraction into sex than others do.



Most guys think naturals just get deeper “attraction” from a higher volume of women - they (usually) don’t.

They may get abit deeper or abit less attraction from women - but they convert a MUCH larger amount of that attraction to actual sex or sexual relationships.



For guys here that think:



Seduction = Attraction (sex just easily follows)

- this is why you’re not doing well with women.



This is especially clear in online youtube videos of Infields of coaches or infields in products:



The ‘Seduction Coach’ has a polite back & forth conversation with a woman that’s abit flirtatious, then he gets her phone number and the number inevitably goes nowhere.



The woman in the video was (usually) attracted, her body language was communicating her attraction/interest and she gave him his number . . . but she never answered his text and she nevrr sees him again.



These coaches & seduction material is selling “attraction” - which is super easy for all of us to get.



Then people buy their program & copy that coach and get a tonne of ‘Attraction’ (only).



But very few women actually sleep with them with simple attraction (which thry already had alot of), because the information for converting attraction to sex is absent, so they don’t even really know how to get there.

Then these guys get terrible amounts of rejection, they’re talking to 50-100 women (or far more) before one sleeps with them.

This awful situation compounds when he sees that most of those women that rejected him were displaying lots of genuine attraction signals but none of those women slept with him.

He then gets confused and frustrated and starts to doubt himself, he backwards rationalises that those attraction signals were incorrect and concludes that women are confusing or that seduction doesn’t work and it’s all a number (volume) process.

How Misunderstanding ‘Attraction’ Causes Higher Rejection in Daygame

This is why alot of guys in the seduction community can’t get anywhere with daygame but can get ok or fair results at nightclubs & bars.

Women came to the club to socialise and potentially leave with a guy - she knew that was a possibility when she got ready to go to the club earlier.

She’s not doing anything else that night other than socialising in her free time - she’s going home to her house, her friends house or a guys.



Whereas when cold approached by a man during the day, she was doing something else when she met him:

now she’s ‘attracted’ to that man, but she’s planned other things, on her way somewhere and this isn’t really her free time (like it is in a club).

Attraction - Why Social Circle is Easier with only ‘Attraction’

Social Circle & Gap in Seduction: One thing I did want to mention about seduction not being about attraction but about bridging the gap between attraction > and sex.

I think this gap to bridge between a woman being very attracted to you and sex is so much easier for men to bridge when you’re in a social circle.



It’s not that women NEED to be more comfortable with you (as Mystery repeated ad nauseum) but that you just simply had so many chances and you were around each other for other things (organically) & when two people were attracted: other people around them didn’t put pressure on the man to directly escalate her to sex or ask her on a date, etc.

This is also why so many people in the past from work slept together or got married or met through families - they just saw each other frequently and no big “moves” or seductive escalation were needed to seduce a woman (or man).

Dating Apps: Preying on Misunderstanding about ‘Attraction’

Dating apps take advantage of this idea in men - while on the opposite side: taking advantage of women’s desire for cheap, available and easy male attention & validation



Dating apps pander to men’s idea that dating and sex is all about ‘attraction’ for women (because that’s all women can measure in still photos of a man) - this is why men assume dating apps will be ideal and can’t understand why women wouldn’t even want to go on a date with them when those women are cleary ‘attracted’ to him - so men conclude that women are: not attracted enough or simply not attracted to him.

Modern Men - Softer in Dating & Belief in Looks, Money, Status for Sex

This is part of the reason men don’t think they NEED to be seductive & are confused why they even NEED to actually be seductive with women: surely ATTRACTION is enough for women to have sex with them.

This is partly why modern men have become so soft in modern dating (according to modern women dating modern men): most men believe that now that women are generally more promiscuous & take contraception - in addition to men listening to the lies women speak online and in the news about their low attraction to men and figures that he doesn’t need to do seduction: he only needs (high levels of) attraction and she’s a modern woman that will make all the moves

This is the same reason men don’t believe in seduction, and think they can avoid being seductive and simply approach by being logical, dip in, collect her phone number - then onto the next woman/carrying on with his day.



The same reason men think it’s all about looks, money & status - and are jealous of “Chad” or very physically attractive guys - these men think all you need is “attraction” like “Chad” and their their dating options would be falling in their lap due to the high levels of attraction.

Or all I need to do is make alot more money or gain alot more status and women will be jumping all over me for sex.


Conclusion

All of this to say is: Seduction is needed to get from Attraction to Sex and attraction is simply the start of the seduction, the beginning of the journey.



Techniques for ‘Attraction’ are pointless if they aren’t followed by actual seduction, or leads to sex: Attraction is almost meaningless if actual seduction or sex never occurs.



Women will lose their attraction or simply forget about it then chalk it up as some fleeting wistful feelings she once had that she barely remembers.

 

[JollyRoger]

Are you familiar with 60 Years of Challenge / 60YOC / Chris Sixty and Captain Jack (former MM student from Texas).

They both put a lot of focus on seduction and arousal and believe that other schools of thought place too much importance on the ‘beginning stages’.

I’ve had some of my very best results following those methods.

 

[Chase]

@James Cruse,

I like it.

I would even go as far as to say that attraction is to a degree a sort of a 'vanity metric'; while it certainly makes seduction easier, it is not really necessary.

You can shag girls who are much more 'attracted' to other men than you if you are the guy who is actually doing things correct and continually leading things forward. A lot of the guys arguing over, "Well, what women are REALLY attracted to is X!" and "Guys like me have it so bad because women are more attracted to guys like that other guy over there," are missing the big point: women are attracted to all kinds of guys it never goes anywhere with. Meantime they are often hooking up with guys they only had moderate levels of attraction to, or even very slight levels of attraction, but the guy was just good at moving things forward.

There is a difference you will see between guys who do not close consistently and guys who do... like, example:

• If a girl starts talking about being attracted to this or that guy, the unskilled guy gets all worried, thinking he has to be "more attractive", that he has to work harder to attract her, etc.
  
  
• Meanwhile, if she is doing that with a skilled guy, he just looks around, says to himself, "Well it doesn't look like any of those guys are seriously trying to pick her up," then he says to himself, "I wonder why she's telling me all this stuff about guys she's attracted to. Just kidding, I don't have to wonder. I guess she's telling me I'd better get her out of here before she wanders off!" and a few minutes later you see him leave with the girl.

The skilled guy isn't overly worried about how attracted she is, whether he is the one she is most attracted to or not, etc.

He is just worried about whether she is still sticking around with him and whether she is ready for him to move things forward with, pull, escalate on, and so on.

Are you familiar with 60 Years of Challenge / 60YOC / Chris Sixty and Captain Jack (former MM student from Texas).

They both put a lot of focus on seduction and arousal and believe that other schools of thought place too much importance on the ‘beginning stages’.

I’ve had some of my very best results following those methods.

Yeah, 60 and Captain Jack are both very good.

I did the same thing with my SAC model / the One Date method.

You have to at least give guys the basic tools for initial attraction, or they feel like they're adrift with girls if they're beginners.

But beyond that, what is really going to put dick into pussy is giving them a system that is focused on the middle and later stages of the seduction, where you are building the trust, arousal, and compliance to close.

You really just need moderate amounts of attraction to sleep with a girl, and can even make do with simple curiosity, adventurousness, or even just boredom (and willingness to follow along with you if she senses it will relieve her boredom) if the attraction isn't happening.

Chase

 

[WierdDough]

Sorry for digging up this post, but it´s such a goldmine. Don´t see how it got so little attention.

The part about how many products within the seduction community are aimed at getting more attraction, rather than converting it into sexual relationships, is very interessting. And as someone who had his mind fucked by some of these products, I can say you are bang on the money. Nowadays, when I look back at some of the products/promotions that came from the seduction community, I can see how a lot of it was just a big moneygrab. Especially during the big boom of the community and the era of the bigger conventions, where every son of a gun all of a sudden seemed to be a guru with a new magic bullet to sell. I remember the confusion I felt after getting some of those products and seeing these so called gurus in field. I kept thinking to myself that there was nothing special about what they were doing, and at the same time thinking there was something I was missing. Listening to them breaking it down didnt help either, it was all just a shit show of mental masturbation and over analysis.

I eventually grew out of the attraction mentality, and learned some of the truths that you write about here. Honestly feel like every newbie should read this post as it would save them a lot of frustration, and confusion, on their journey to improving their lives.

Best regards, WD

 

[Derek da man]

Honestly feel like every newbie should read this post as it would save them a lot of frustration, and confusion, on their journey to improving their lives.

Agree, but most Newbies have enough going on trying to deal with Approach Anxiety and hold a half decent conversation whilst under pressure. In order to be able to read girls body language you need a get past that worry stage which is when you get a bit of confidence which comes from experience and being reflective.

60 Years of Challenge / 60YOC

It took the 60YOC to get me to realise that nature will take care of attraction a lot of the time for you. Not every girl will be attracted, that's fine, just learning to recognise which ones changed things hugely. Once I understood that I found there were more than enough girls being attracted to me so it became a case of me choosing which one(s) I wanted to develop a connection with.

I do agree though that being able to see the larger picture and getting focused on a process so you can see you need to transition each step into the next would make things much less frustrating.

 

[James Cruse]

Sorry for digging up this post, but it´s such a goldmine. Don´t see how it got so little attention.

Thanks mate, no need to apoligise.

The part about how many products within the seduction community are aimed at getting more attraction, rather than converting it into sexual relationships, is very interessting. And as someone who had his mind fucked by some of these products, I can say you are bang on the money.

Alot of products can guarantee attraction, but most of that new & higher volume of attraction those guys get, unfortunately doesn’t translate to much more sex or sexual relationships.

But those gurus could get away with selling men products that simply get them attraction and say, “See, you got more attraction, my product was a success”

Nowadays, when I look back at some of the products/promotions that came from the seduction community, I can see how a lot of it was just a big moneygrab. Especially during the big boom of the community and the era of the bigger conventions, where every son of a gun all of a sudden seemed to be a guru with a new magic bullet to sell. I remember the confusion I felt after getting some of those products and seeing these so called gurus in field.

Sadly, they were giving students the ‘fast food’ of seduction: get shallow attraction (that usually doesn’t end in satsfying sex).

Listening to them breaking it down didnt help either, it was all just a shit show of mental masturbation and over analysis.

Exactly, just breaking down ‘attraction’ techniques and how more attraction techniques work and what they are - without discussing how they convert all of that attraction to actual sex/sexual relationship.

This is why alot of guys are disillusioned with learning and practicing seduction, the seduction community and disappointment & confusion when they see seduction “gurus” or instructors interacting with women: it rarely leads to sex for even those guys instructing.

It gives the seduction community a bad name overall, unfortunately.

I eventually grew out of the attraction mentality, and learned some of the truths that you write about here. Honestly feel like every newbie should read this post as it would save them a lot of frustration, and confusion, on their journey to improving their lives.

Good for you and I hope every seducer out there gets to this point in their journey and realises the ‘Attraction isn’t Enough’ idea and we won’t get anymore of the non-erudite ‘fast food attraction’ products and material.