Attraction issue, compliance issue or something else?

[JasonH]

Hi,
Wanting some feedback on how women are behaving and what I need to work on. I’m thinking it’s either an attraction or compliance issue, but one of my good friends (who’s an experienced prolific seducer think it’s actually an attainability thing).

A few different women, a couple in relationships, a couple single

- All are engaging. Open body language, don’t engage other people or get distracted while we’re conversing, play with their hair etc
- receptive to touch and touch back on my shoulders/forearm
- a couple are more receptive - I can place my hand around their back/waist, and they’ll respond by putting their arm around me. Sometimes I’ll just pick them up in my arms for fun
- isolate with me and stay isolated when other friends engage or they’ll have their friends wait while we talk
- Mix of teasing/flirtation and deep dive

So I have these situations where women appear to be giving me good signs.
I ask them to meet one on one eg just come over or meet for coffee at mutual place we like. They’ll initially say yes, then usually reschedule.
As all are social circle or somewhat social circle (eg met at gym by asking for help then developed relationship) not random stranger from street.
Usually with these signs from women, the meet up has been a sure thing (although I understand the hesitation from women in relationships)

So I’m thinking It is a value/compliance issue? I’m not sure how this can be an attainability thing (as In my attainability is too low).
Cheers,
Jason

 

[KJ Francis]

Attainability can be a little nuanced. It seems you're getting signs of interest, meaning the raw sexual attraction/value is there. If you're teasing hard, touching a lot, picking them up pjysically, etc., this can all be good and shows you're an attainable fuck, but if this arousal is spiking, she may experience a state shift when you're gone, and then you're almost too attainable and not a challenge if you're asking them to come right over.

Even for the cafe invite situations, then you may come across like "he just wants to fuck me", especially if it's an arousing first encounter. So then your attainability as a partner is too low. So you may want to either lower the arousal spiking, or balance out the arousal with more similarity building and extra qualifying her after specific screening. So more time making her feel special for her individual qualities. Then she's not wondering "is this guy even into me specifically or is he like this with all the girls". The same factor can influence her leaving you after a few months of a fuck buddy relationship that isn't going anywhere. She may just be preempting this.

I don't really know though. Just some ideas. But I tend to think there are two parallel threads happening. There's your gene replication/lover value and its related attainability... Then there's your survival/protector value and attainability for that. Hence the strategy of ambiguous lover/provider value. You could have the best genes in the world, but if you are likely to metaphorically knock her up and leave her vulnerable in the jungle to be eaten by a predator, her flight response may trigger.

 

[KJ Francis]

More on state shift causing runoff

https://xcancel.com/GirlsChase/status/1866996412971618360#m

 

[JasonH]

Attainability can be a little nuanced. It seems you're getting signs of interest, meaning the raw sexual attraction/value is there. If you're teasing hard, touching a lot, picking them up pjysically, etc., this can all be good and shows you're an attainable fuck, but if this arousal is spiking, she may experience a state shift when you're gone, and then you're almost too attainable and not a challenge if you're asking them to come right over.

Even for the cafe invite situations, then you may come across like "he just wants to fuck me", especially if it's an arousing first encounter. So then your attainability as a partner is too low. So you may want to either lower the arousal spiking, or balance out the arousal with more similarity building and extra qualifying her after specific screening. So more time making her feel special for her individual qualities. Then she's not wondering "is this guy even into me specifically or is he like this with all the girls". The same factor can influence her leaving you after a few months of a fuck buddy relationship that isn't going anywhere. She may just be preempting this.

I don't really know though. Just some ideas. But I tend to think there are two parallel threads happening. There's your gene replication/lover value and its related attainability... Then there's your survival/protector value and attainability for that. Hence the strategy of ambiguous lover/provider value. You could have the best genes in the world, but if you are likely to metaphorically knock her up and leave her vulnerable in the jungle to be eaten by a predator, her flight response may trigger.

Thanks for the reply KJ.
My feel of the situation is the same, though it’s a bit difficult to be objective when in it. It seems like the raw attraction side of things is there but there are barriers/something stopping from meeting one-one.

With the single girls - maybe I need to focus more on similarity building while keeping up with the touch/play side. I’ll try focus on this when the opportunity arises.

With the girls with the bf, who seem more excitable, touchy around me when with me and also compliant when with me (eg move with me, stay with me, do small things for me) in social settings. I think it’s a “Jason’s too close in my social circle to risk anything with me” & may be a “Jason’s fun and we get along, but I dont want to risk meeting him one one incase Im judged socially” kind of situation.

So may be not a value issue then but rather a compliance issue?

 

[KJ Francis]

Yeah if the single girls are compliant in general but not enough to meet up, and if they're receptive to the arousal stuff you're doing, then yeah I would keep up the arousal or possibly tone it down just slightly only if it's blowing them out. Otherwise keep it up and balance with the similarity stuff. So more deep diving, qualifying on their qualities, and eliciting her values so you can mirror back her attitudes.

Once you feel there's a good dose of similarity, then make sure arousal is still in check, and give the compliance a shot again. I mean like the bigger asks to meet up etc. It's always good to keep smaller compliance asks going to keep the compliance momentum. But just put the focus back on similarity if it's trailing in the SAC balance.

For the girls with boyfriends, yeah that is very delicate if there is any sort of social connection at all. I suppose you could try communicating as much secret society value, second gen verbals about non judgement, etc. as possible. And put a huge focus on communicating discretion. Really put the secret in the society.

But that does not seem very efficient in my opinion... I would focus those efforts on meeting girls with no social connection to you. Even with the single girls in your circles, you may need a lot of discretion communicated.

Again, just brainstorming. The closest I've gotten to fucking a married woman is just seducing a coworker only to the point that she still leaves me a homemade breakfast bar on my desk every morning for so many months now I forget how many, and sometimes gives me lunch. In this situation I am like the girls. Happy to be flirty and dangle good feelings, proximity, go into semi isolation, etc. But no way am I fucking up my work/social situation for a lay or letting go of the nonsexual value. Same for her probably. She grew up nerdy with no self esteem and now has a banging body as she worries about aging and likes attention to feel attractive.. Like she's talked to me about her husband and sex life. There was for sure an escalation window involving a hotel room she had once. But the point is overall, reactions are not results. So especially with the taken girls, compliance test above all.

So anyways yeah you could work on compliance ramping, yes ladders, etc. And try to get momentum enough to overcome other obstacles. But it sounds messy. If you're really trying to fuck a ton of girls I would get a good pipeline from outside the social circle. Then maybe when you're projecting a very non needy seductive vibe as second nature you can pick a few of them off.

-KJ (keyboard jockey)

 

[JasonH]

Yeah if the single girls are compliant in general but not enough to meet up, and if they're receptive to the arousal stuff you're doing, then yeah I would keep up the arousal or possibly tone it down just slightly only if it's blowing them out. Otherwise keep it up and balance with the similarity stuff. So more deep diving, qualifying on their qualities, and eliciting her values so you can mirror back her attitudes.

Once you feel there's a good dose of similarity, then make sure arousal is still in check, and give the compliance a shot again. I mean like the bigger asks to meet up etc. It's always good to keep smaller compliance asks going to keep the compliance momentum. But just put the focus back on similarity if it's trailing in the SAC balance.

For the girls with boyfriends, yeah that is very delicate if there is any sort of social connection at all. I suppose you could try communicating as much secret society value, second gen verbals about non judgement, etc. as possible. And put a huge focus on communicating discretion. Really put the secret in the society.

But that does not seem very efficient in my opinion... I would focus those efforts on meeting girls with no social connection to you. Even with the single girls in your circles, you may need a lot of discretion communicated.

Again, just brainstorming. The closest I've gotten to fucking a married woman is just seducing a coworker only to the point that she still leaves me a homemade breakfast bar on my desk every morning for so many months now I forget how many, and sometimes gives me lunch. In this situation I am like the girls. Happy to be flirty and dangle good feelings, proximity, go into semi isolation, etc. But no way am I fucking up my work/social situation for a lay or letting go of the nonsexual value. Same for her probably. She grew up nerdy with no self esteem and now has a banging body as she worries about aging and likes attention to feel attractive.. Like she's talked to me about her husband and sex life. There was for sure an escalation window involving a hotel room she had once. But the point is overall, reactions are not results. So especially with the taken girls, compliance test above all.

So anyways yeah you could work on compliance ramping, yes ladders, etc. And try to get momentum enough to overcome other obstacles. But it sounds messy. If you're really trying to fuck a ton of girls I would get a good pipeline from outside the social circle. Then maybe when you're projecting a very non needy seductive vibe as second nature you can pick a few of them off.

-KJ (keyboard jockey)

Yeah agreed, they’re more in the periphery of the social circle now but still I would not escalate to close. Rather it was what’s the barrier to a low effort cafe meet up.

Usually, when girls are this receptive the meet up is fairly easy to schedule, but there was a common thread of resistance I was unsure whether it was ‘Am I just not attractive enough’ or some other barrier.

Thanks - I’ll aim to inject more similarity to see if that balanced things out, particularly qualifying, while also doing smaller compliance favors.

Is there a clearer way to identify whether resistance to meeting up one-one is due to:
A. He’s not attractive/exciting enough to meetup
B. Similarity issue: he’s fun/exciting but no not enough connection
- other barriers: availability/social status considerations (bf)

As in how are the women behaving with you for each of those reasons, that makes it easier to identify you have issue A, B or C to work on?

 

[KJ Francis]

I think Chase recommends what he calls SAC pings, and doing them in the CAS order. If you search my thread about "cold approach banter process" he wrote a post that night help. So you quickly test compliance, then arousal if needed, then similarity if needed. Based on which one she seems to respond best to, that tells you what she needs more of and hence what to focus on.

If you've done everything you can with all three but she still isn't complying all the way, then you can think in terms of the VAC model. Assuming attainability is at the right balance, then you are left with a value problem. I think that would typically mean your fundamentals need work (fashion, fitness, slow deep voice, eye contact and slow non-verbal movement, vibe, etc)
.

Depending on your approach volume you may be dealing with a small sample size. Like if you're mainly approaching a few girls at the gym or whatever, I wouldn't beat yourself up about not being attractive enough. You should always have a mind for improving fundamentals, but you may also want to work on just increasing your input level.

 

[JasonH]

Thanks KJ. I’ll have a look at the thread.
Update:
One of the gym girls(single) pinged me. I was a lot more warm in my txts - as she pinged me first. In short we’re meeting up. She messaged me today again. No idea what’s changed.

I’ll aim to balance SAC

 

[KJ Francis]

In short we’re meeting up. She messaged me today again. No idea what’s changed.

Nice! Maybe ovulation

¯\_(ツ)_/¯