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- Dec 6, 2012
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This is the first girl I had contact with after becoming single, and also the first one encountered when starting to learn GC material. So I have to say that there’s a lot here in which I just took too long and moved kind of slow, but read on and see how.
I met a girl a few months ago at a happy hour event. She’s a cute petite, skinny mid 20’s brunette girl with whom I talked for a while. I noticed towards the end of this happy hour that she was basically following me around, and eventually when I left she left with me without me asking. We walk towards the subway, and I decided somewhere on route that maybe she’s into me and perhaps we can go do something else rather than parting ways. I suggested that the night is too young to end, and that we should instead grab drinks nearby, and she accepted.
I don’t remember the full details of this, as it was quite some time ago, but we spent about and hour and a half together deep diving into a whole host of subjects. I started to steer this conversation towards relationships and her sensuality. In learning about her and having drinks together it turns out she is in a relationship at the moment, but also wants to explore what other kinds of men are out there. Her BF and her have been together for almost four years, and she had once broken up with him after cheating on him, and then got back together a few months later but now wants something new. She pretty much told me this directly, and as we were both in relationships at this time, I didn’t try too hard to do things. I motioned all the gamey things to her like “sit next to me” and “sit on my lap,” and I try to delve right into her passionate and sensual side, but she withholds that information. She tells me that it’s personal and that she’s not comfortable with talking to me about it yet. I also share with her that my GF and I are in a weird place, because we care about each other a lot but know it isn’t going anywhere.
Anyway, we’re leaving the place to head back to our homes, and I tell her that maybe we should do this again sometime. She agrees but also says that she’d like to be just friends at this time. I said maybe more, maybe less, but she said friends is more what she is after. I was a little silly, but at that time I agreed to it.
A few days later I give her a call to see how she’s doing, and also to see if she still wants to meet. The phone call lasted twenty five minutes. She says she wants to meet me still, and then I ask her to clarify what she meant by her saying she just wants to be friends. She tells me she’s in a relationship and doesn’t want to go the other route till she’s figured things out. So I tell her that I am now single (and I was), that I found her quite attractive when we were hanging out last time, and that if we meet, I don’t think I’d be able to control myself around her. I then asked her what she thought about that. Her reply was basically: Thank you for the honesty, but maybe it’s not a good idea to do this right now then. I don’t reply negatively at all, and instead tell her that I’d still like to make time to get to know her a little better when she’s ready. I end the call soon after, and she follows through a little later with texts on Oct 3 (this was JUST as I started doing the GC process):
Her: I just had to let you know. I ended up looking you up online…sorry =P <this was an inside joke, when we met she really wanted my last name and I joked that she only wants that so she can stalk me on facebook>
Me: Oh? Haha, I knew it….What did you see, and did you like it?
This allows us to get into a texting conversation, which lasted a bit. Anyway, she keeps bringing up that she wants to meet over the next few weeks, and we have a few more short phone calls. The purpose of these phone calls was actually a compliance test: I was trying to get her to send me a picture of herself via text. She was at first adamant about why I want a picture, but I kept the conversations to learning more about her. It turned out she likes biking, so I told her she should send me a picture of herself on a bike. This is three days after our text exchange (10/6)
Me 1323: How’s your weekend been? I missed your texts over it.
Her 1644: It was good. Went for a bike ride yesterday. Celebrating my sister’s birthday today. And you?
Me 1837: Whoa, a bike ride? Where did you go? My weekend was chill, went out with my friend last night and did work at home.
Her 1847: Why is a bike ride shocking? What work? I didn’t do much today.
Her 1852: Biking is a really good way to see NY.
Me 1904: Haha I didn’t mean it as shocking. It’s funny you say that though, I love biking! I bike every single day =). I bet you look pretty cute riding one, especially with your glasses ;-)
Me 1904: I used to bike to and from work a few times a week when I lived in [neighborhood]
Me 1904: What kind do you have?
Her 2220: I like biking too. I’m not sure what kind of bike it is. It’s a hybrid womens bike. It was used.
Her 2227: Sorry it took a while for me to respond before.
Me 2312: Haha no worries, you like it slow eh? ;-) Do you just ride it in your neighborhood or perhaps into the rockaways as well? That’s a place I’d like to bike before the weather gets cold. What did you do for your sisters b’day?
Her 2317: Not the rockways but I biked pretty far out of my neighborhood. I biked to bed stuy and then to prospect part. I didn’t do much for my sisters bday…just dinner.
Me 2331: That’s a long way out, sounds like you want out for a few hours. Take a picture of you on your bike and send it to me, I wanna see what it looks like (not now obviously….this week?)
Her <next day> 1425: I can’t send pictures from my phone.
Me 1814: Oh yeah, you have one of those old flip phones right? Do you have a camera?
Her 1816: Yep I do.
Her 1819: But I don’t feel comfortable sending you pics of myself.
Me 1824: Oh, you’re uncomfortable sending me an innocent picture of you on a bike? How come?
Her 1827: I can’t explain it.
Me 1842: I don’t know what you mean exactly, but I do think I am a good listener, if you want to try
Her 1844: Ok. Maybe over a phone conversation later? Not sure I can explain in a text.
Me 1847: Wow, this sounds pretty complex huh? Unfortunately I am busy for the rest of tonight with friends, but maybe tomorrow?
Her 1907: Sure, have fun.
<Keep in mind that at this time I was really just starting to learn GC material>
She never did this, but I still got to practice compliance texting. All this effort and lack of investment on her part was a bit frustrating, so while we kept texting back and forth for a while and kept in touch sporadically. We had a few extended text exchanges, the last being on 10/15 but I just let it hang for a few days and didn’t contact at all. Then suddenly, I am on vacation in California and get these messages (date and time provided):
Her 10/20 2234: Hey. How was your weekend? <random, I didn’t respond.>
Her 10/21 1317: Sorry I don’t have the bike pictures yet. Haha. <Ok, showing interest, still didn’t respond>
Her 10/21 2253: Do you still want to meet at some point? <oh man, even more interest! This is getting better…>
Her 10/22 1206: I guess I would still like to meet. I think I might go to the met this week. <Boom! >
Me 10/23 2340: Hey [M]! Sorry I’ve been on radio silence for the past few days. I wasn’t ignoring you, I’m actually on vacation right now and I’ve been extremely busy. Anyway, I will be back in early November; how’ve you been? You’d like to meet up?
Her 10/23 2346: Extremely busy while on vacation. Doesn’t sound like much of a vacation. Haha. I’ve been ok. <etc etc> and yes I’d like to meet up.
Me 10/23 2349: <filler comment response> I’d like to meet up too when I am back, but I don’t know if I’ll be able to hold myself back when we do. What do you think? <Telling her that if we meet it’s going to be more than platonic, I am setting up this expectation>
Her 10/23 2350: Well I also broke up with my boyfriend a few days ago so I don’t mind as much if you hit on me. Haha.
Her 10/23 2351: Now I don’t feel like I would be cheating. I feel a bit better about it.
Me 10/23 2352: Oh, what happened with you?
Her 10/23 2353: You mean why I broke up?
Her 10/23 2355: Well I guess it’s what I was saying to you earlier. I wasn’t sure if I wanted to be with him and at the same time if I was with him I couldn’t explore what it would be like to date other guys and I had a decision to make.
Me 10/23 2359: What do you want to explore?
Her 10/23 2359: Just dating I guess. I mean I don’t want a one night stand.
Her 10/24 0000: How do you feel?
Me 10/24 0002: I feel open minded.
Her 10/24 0002: Not that we have to date. We could just meet. I just meant I felt locked down by being in a committed relationship. And that’s why I broke up. Because if I was crazy in love I probably wouldn’t have gone out for a drink with you that night.
Me 10/24 0006: Well, I think you’re cute and interesting, and I want something more than just friends. We can meet up when I am back, if you’d like. What do you think? <Avoiding a friend only zone>
Her 10/24 0009: Sure but when you said you might not be able to hold yourself back what did you mean? Because I wouldn’t want to move too fast.
Me 10/24 0012: I guess we will have to meet up in person and see…
Her 10/24 0014: Lol ok. What do you want to do? Go for dinner and drinks maybe?
Me 10/24 0016: I’ll be in touch with you when I get back in two weeks.
<texting continues for another half hour, I have to get better at just cutting it off, seems to be a theme in my interactions>
We have another long text exchange on 10/30 and 11/4. Then finally this on 11/18:
Me 1343: Hey Maria! How’ve you been? I am headed back to NYC tomorrow, vacation is over =(. Thinking we should grab that coffee though, how’s your week looking?
Her 1356: Coffee sounds good!
Me 1359: Cool =) what days work best?
Her 1400: I have time tomorrow, Thursday early afternoon, and Friday
Her 1401: And Wednesday if it’s later in the day.
Me 1408: What do you mean later in the day Wednesday?
Her 1409: Later in the afternoon like around 2
Her 1409: And before 7
Her 1422: Thursday I can meet before 3
Her 1423: How does your week work?
Me 1425: Yeah actually that would work, I have something weds at 6:30 (I think). Let’s plan on Wednesday, I’ll get back to you about the time tomorrow. Does that sound good?
Her 1425: Yep!
Me 1431: Cool.
Wednesday 11/20:
Anyway we agree to meet at 4:15, I show up at the place at 4:30 and she showed up a bit late around 4:45 or so.
She was pretty excited to see me. She was dressed nice but also in an outfit that showed off some cleavage. We sat across from each other at a table and started deep diving almost immediately. There was plenty to talk about here, as we’d been texting for a while, so we got into traveling first. I had her guess where I went, which she was terrible at, and then we broadened that into where she would really like to go and where she’s been, as well as the traveling she’s already done. This moved the conversation to the direction of books and such, as I transitioned to things she’s reading, and it turns out she’s reading a bit about spirituality and self discovery, and seems to share an interest in observing people, behaviors, and reading them. This led us to play an amazing game: up to this point I had been touching and holding her hand sporadically to make a point, but it’s not like gripping it to really tell how she’s feeling; she mentioned a game she read in a book about a guy that was able to hold someone’s hand while closing his eyes as the “someone” picked an object in the room, and then he’d name the object. So we played this game, and I started, which meant I held her hand tightly on the table. I guessed the object on the third try, and she never guessed my object, but it meant we got to hold hands.
I’ll also note that she was leaning into the table virtually the entire time, and had very powerful eye contact, and also sometimes moved her lips nervously especially when we were hand holding after that point. I could tell there was some kind of tension. Somewhere in this I told her she’s a charming and intelligent, and very intellectual girl, but that there’s something beneath the surface I sense she’s hiding, but she shouldn’t be.
Here’s where it gets interesting: I tell her I have to get going soon, but also ask her what her plans are in the evening. She says she has a dinner but then she’s free. Oh, well, I happen to be free after 9, and then ask her if she’d like to meet after and continue the night. She says yes, she’d like that. Attraction seems to be pretty freaking high here. However, when the bill came she didn’t even motion to her purse, it’s like she just expected me to pay. It was only $7 so NBD, but I wonder if I should play around with making them pay, or wait till I am at a higher level.
We’re walking to the subway before splitting in different directions, and I start to hold her hand as I’m walking. She’s much smaller than me so holding her hand is kind of awkward; I go with it. Everything seems positive and I ask her if she enjoyed herself, and if she thinks we should continue the night. The answer to both questions was yes. So at an intersection we part ways and I gave her a kiss on the cheek with a tight hug.
-----
Fast forward to around 9:30pm: she still wants to meet, so I have her come to me and we don’t really know what to do. I suggest an intimate drinks bar around the corner, and this is where things got heavier. I had just finished reading all the GC articles on framing this week, so I use this opportunity to set up some frames. First, that I’m non-judgmental, and I do this by contrasting my family to myself and how I think differently, and also bring up that I went to a meetup that’s all about self improvement and making yourself better, and that one of the things to really be a powerful person is to be all accepting. This conversation is slowly guided into the realm of sexuality, and I start to discuss with her how our society has conditioned us to think a certain way about sex and intimacy, when in fact people, especially girls, have no idea how powerful their sexuality can be and how liberating it is when you can actually reach out and do the things you really want. She’s agreeing with pretty much all of this and sharing her own experiences and feelings about this. I start being more physical as I’m doing this, and begin to caress her back. Somehow we start talking about if she’s a sensual person, and she is but doesn’t like anyone else to know about it. I agree and tell her that these are things that should only be shared between two people, and no one else really needs to know what two people do with each other. Jealousy, lack of communication, and other people mess up this paradigm. She also agrees.
The tension has definitely risen. I start massaging her back a little more and ask her where she likes to be touched. We start a game where we share fantasies, and later what we’d like to do to each other by whispering in our ears. Every time she told me something I said something along the lines of “that’s really hot!” or “wow, I love it” and also told her that I appreciate how refreshingly open she is about her sensual side. All this is going well….except that we’re in a public place, I can’t escalate, she lives at home with parents, and we’re an hour and 15 min from my house.
I bring up her coming over, and for a while she starts to agree that she should come. I tell her it’s not far, and that I can drop her back home later. She basically tells me she wants to take this further. Problem is the time is now 11:15, 11:30 and she doesn’t want to get home too late because her parents will know that she didn’t come home. I came SOOOO close to convincing her that she should just do it anyway, but failed. The pickle came after we left this place at 11:30.
Logistics problems:
- It’s NYC, too many people outside (can’t go public)
- It’s winter and the temperature is around 30F (can’t go to a park or anywhere else outside)
- I don’t know any places with a large bathroom nearby or anything
- We went to a bank ATM area to stay warm, where I tried to convince her further and also came super close, but also kissed her finally here and maybe this was a bad idea to release tension. Now we’re kissing in public which she doesn't like anyway.
She says she would come home with me if I lived closer, but because I don’t and because she wants to be home she can’t. I feel I pushed as hard as I could to sell her on the idea, but also think that I should have just grabbed her and say “let’s go” because she was pretty much on the edge anyway. Now instead we decide to walk to some other bar that I know will be pretty intimate. She also says she wants to come over tomorrow night instead, but has a work engagement till 9:30pm (also pushing it on the time)
I bring up again on the walk over that we should do this crazy adventure. She picks up on it and asks why I want her to come to my place so badly, and I respond that I just like adventures, and that would be a fun one, then quickly switch topics. This time I was being too pushy.
We move to the cozier bar. There are only two other people there and we’re essentially cuddling on a couch, but it’s still not private. Anyway, I continue the game where we left off. I whisper into her ear “I’d love to touch and caress your boobs and pinch your nipples,” and then I ask her in a regular voice “would you like that?” She replies, “yes,” and so my facial expression changes to a poker face, and I look her directly in the eyes while I move my hands to her breasts and start to explore them over her clothes.
This girl has probably the nicest boobs I have ever felt in my life, very firm and comfortable. They were great!!! I’m feeling her up through her clothes, and then also motion my hand into her inner thigh, then around her pussy (over her jeans) and ask her if she likes being touched there too. She says yes. At some point in continuing our game, she says she’s starting to feel uncomfortable. I ask her if it’s because we’re in a public place, and when she says yes I tell her that we should have just gone up to my area, then laugh and move on to a different subject altogether. I think we’re talking more about family and relationships that our siblings have.
The time is now closer to 12:30 and I tell her we should start heading back, I need to catch the last train. As we’re walking down to the subway we’re holding hands, and somehow the topic of relationships comes up. She’s asking me how many I’ve been in, I laugh and just say “a couple,” then ask her and she replies the same. I then tell her that it’s weird when people put labels on things, and that people just mess things up that way with jealousy and the like. Somehow we get to the topic of what we’re looking for, and she mentions something about friends with fun on the side. I ask her what she thinks of that, and she said that she likes it. GREAT, this is what I want!! I tell her I like that she knows what she wants, and that I don’t like labels and attachment. We’re still holding hands, and before getting to the station she says she still feels some tension between us.
We part ways at the station, I give her two kisses and tell her that I’m looking forward to seeing her tomorrow, and that if she needs I am able to drive her home later in that night (since it’s pretty far to my house).
I did not text her to see how she got home, this isn’t something that we had talked about. We both live about an hour and 15 minutes from where we were but in different directions.
Thursday 11/21
So we had agreed the last night to go home together tonight. I don’t know why I did this, I wasn’t thinking, but still, I thought it made sense. I didn’t prepare a back-up adequately either, as I trained it in rather than driving.
Frame encounter:
Her 1942: Hey. I don’t think I want to go to Westchester. Sorry it’s too far.
Me 1944: Then how in the world are you going to get your massage? ;-) I am able to drop you back home.
Her 2001: Haha well you never asked me how I got home last night
Me 2002: Oh, what do you mean? I don’t recall us talking about that.
Me 2004: What time do you think you’ll be at [station]?
Her 2008: Well it’s something we should have talked about
Her 2008: You just never texted me to see how I got home.
Me 2010: Ah, I see, I did not understand that you expect that.
Me 2011: Thank you for clarifying that.
Her 2024: I guess I do
Me 2026: No worries Maria, it’s good to know ;-). What time will you be at Grand Central?
Her 2026: Not sure yet.
Me 2027: Cool
Her 2110: This event doesn’t end until 9:30 so I’m not going to be done until 10pm.
Me 2110: That’s fine.
Her 2110: I’m not going to grand central sorry. It’s too late.
Me 2121: Ok maybe next time.
Her 2200: Yep. I actually just left.
Me 2200: Cool, let me know you make it home safe?
Her 2001: Ok I will.
----
Her 0142: Hey. Just got home. Hope you had a fun night!
Me 0143: Damn, sounds like it took a while. Good night.
Her 0144: Well I didn’t go straight home. Good night.
Mistakes:
- Should have suggested we hang out at my place earlier on in the first date. The critical point was when we continued the date later in the night, I should have brought up going to my place for a bit then, although this is before I really got her into the mood.
- Not driving into the city the second time, I could have probably picked her up and done something in a car.
- Supplication to her request to check on her getting home, probably killed some attraction.
- I got jealous over her very last text, this is not a good thing to do. She probably did end up with someone else that night. Hmm…
What do you guys think I should do? How should I approach continuing things with her, if at all? Is it too late? I haven’t heard from her or tried to reach out to her ever since this.
I am going to be out of town for the next two weeks, so my current plan is that on my way back I am going to tell her: “[M!] Sorry, I’ve been away, I was out of town for a while. How’ve you been? Thinking we should meet in the city soon, what’s your schedule like the next week or two?”
I met a girl a few months ago at a happy hour event. She’s a cute petite, skinny mid 20’s brunette girl with whom I talked for a while. I noticed towards the end of this happy hour that she was basically following me around, and eventually when I left she left with me without me asking. We walk towards the subway, and I decided somewhere on route that maybe she’s into me and perhaps we can go do something else rather than parting ways. I suggested that the night is too young to end, and that we should instead grab drinks nearby, and she accepted.
I don’t remember the full details of this, as it was quite some time ago, but we spent about and hour and a half together deep diving into a whole host of subjects. I started to steer this conversation towards relationships and her sensuality. In learning about her and having drinks together it turns out she is in a relationship at the moment, but also wants to explore what other kinds of men are out there. Her BF and her have been together for almost four years, and she had once broken up with him after cheating on him, and then got back together a few months later but now wants something new. She pretty much told me this directly, and as we were both in relationships at this time, I didn’t try too hard to do things. I motioned all the gamey things to her like “sit next to me” and “sit on my lap,” and I try to delve right into her passionate and sensual side, but she withholds that information. She tells me that it’s personal and that she’s not comfortable with talking to me about it yet. I also share with her that my GF and I are in a weird place, because we care about each other a lot but know it isn’t going anywhere.
Anyway, we’re leaving the place to head back to our homes, and I tell her that maybe we should do this again sometime. She agrees but also says that she’d like to be just friends at this time. I said maybe more, maybe less, but she said friends is more what she is after. I was a little silly, but at that time I agreed to it.
A few days later I give her a call to see how she’s doing, and also to see if she still wants to meet. The phone call lasted twenty five minutes. She says she wants to meet me still, and then I ask her to clarify what she meant by her saying she just wants to be friends. She tells me she’s in a relationship and doesn’t want to go the other route till she’s figured things out. So I tell her that I am now single (and I was), that I found her quite attractive when we were hanging out last time, and that if we meet, I don’t think I’d be able to control myself around her. I then asked her what she thought about that. Her reply was basically: Thank you for the honesty, but maybe it’s not a good idea to do this right now then. I don’t reply negatively at all, and instead tell her that I’d still like to make time to get to know her a little better when she’s ready. I end the call soon after, and she follows through a little later with texts on Oct 3 (this was JUST as I started doing the GC process):
Her: I just had to let you know. I ended up looking you up online…sorry =P <this was an inside joke, when we met she really wanted my last name and I joked that she only wants that so she can stalk me on facebook>
Me: Oh? Haha, I knew it….What did you see, and did you like it?
This allows us to get into a texting conversation, which lasted a bit. Anyway, she keeps bringing up that she wants to meet over the next few weeks, and we have a few more short phone calls. The purpose of these phone calls was actually a compliance test: I was trying to get her to send me a picture of herself via text. She was at first adamant about why I want a picture, but I kept the conversations to learning more about her. It turned out she likes biking, so I told her she should send me a picture of herself on a bike. This is three days after our text exchange (10/6)
Me 1323: How’s your weekend been? I missed your texts over it.
Her 1644: It was good. Went for a bike ride yesterday. Celebrating my sister’s birthday today. And you?
Me 1837: Whoa, a bike ride? Where did you go? My weekend was chill, went out with my friend last night and did work at home.
Her 1847: Why is a bike ride shocking? What work? I didn’t do much today.
Her 1852: Biking is a really good way to see NY.
Me 1904: Haha I didn’t mean it as shocking. It’s funny you say that though, I love biking! I bike every single day =). I bet you look pretty cute riding one, especially with your glasses ;-)
Me 1904: I used to bike to and from work a few times a week when I lived in [neighborhood]
Me 1904: What kind do you have?
Her 2220: I like biking too. I’m not sure what kind of bike it is. It’s a hybrid womens bike. It was used.
Her 2227: Sorry it took a while for me to respond before.
Me 2312: Haha no worries, you like it slow eh? ;-) Do you just ride it in your neighborhood or perhaps into the rockaways as well? That’s a place I’d like to bike before the weather gets cold. What did you do for your sisters b’day?
Her 2317: Not the rockways but I biked pretty far out of my neighborhood. I biked to bed stuy and then to prospect part. I didn’t do much for my sisters bday…just dinner.
Me 2331: That’s a long way out, sounds like you want out for a few hours. Take a picture of you on your bike and send it to me, I wanna see what it looks like (not now obviously….this week?)
Her <next day> 1425: I can’t send pictures from my phone.
Me 1814: Oh yeah, you have one of those old flip phones right? Do you have a camera?
Her 1816: Yep I do.
Her 1819: But I don’t feel comfortable sending you pics of myself.
Me 1824: Oh, you’re uncomfortable sending me an innocent picture of you on a bike? How come?
Her 1827: I can’t explain it.
Me 1842: I don’t know what you mean exactly, but I do think I am a good listener, if you want to try
Her 1844: Ok. Maybe over a phone conversation later? Not sure I can explain in a text.
Me 1847: Wow, this sounds pretty complex huh? Unfortunately I am busy for the rest of tonight with friends, but maybe tomorrow?
Her 1907: Sure, have fun.
<Keep in mind that at this time I was really just starting to learn GC material>
She never did this, but I still got to practice compliance texting. All this effort and lack of investment on her part was a bit frustrating, so while we kept texting back and forth for a while and kept in touch sporadically. We had a few extended text exchanges, the last being on 10/15 but I just let it hang for a few days and didn’t contact at all. Then suddenly, I am on vacation in California and get these messages (date and time provided):
Her 10/20 2234: Hey. How was your weekend? <random, I didn’t respond.>
Her 10/21 1317: Sorry I don’t have the bike pictures yet. Haha. <Ok, showing interest, still didn’t respond>
Her 10/21 2253: Do you still want to meet at some point? <oh man, even more interest! This is getting better…>
Her 10/22 1206: I guess I would still like to meet. I think I might go to the met this week. <Boom! >
Me 10/23 2340: Hey [M]! Sorry I’ve been on radio silence for the past few days. I wasn’t ignoring you, I’m actually on vacation right now and I’ve been extremely busy. Anyway, I will be back in early November; how’ve you been? You’d like to meet up?
Her 10/23 2346: Extremely busy while on vacation. Doesn’t sound like much of a vacation. Haha. I’ve been ok. <etc etc> and yes I’d like to meet up.
Me 10/23 2349: <filler comment response> I’d like to meet up too when I am back, but I don’t know if I’ll be able to hold myself back when we do. What do you think? <Telling her that if we meet it’s going to be more than platonic, I am setting up this expectation>
Her 10/23 2350: Well I also broke up with my boyfriend a few days ago so I don’t mind as much if you hit on me. Haha.
Her 10/23 2351: Now I don’t feel like I would be cheating. I feel a bit better about it.
Me 10/23 2352: Oh, what happened with you?
Her 10/23 2353: You mean why I broke up?
Her 10/23 2355: Well I guess it’s what I was saying to you earlier. I wasn’t sure if I wanted to be with him and at the same time if I was with him I couldn’t explore what it would be like to date other guys and I had a decision to make.
Me 10/23 2359: What do you want to explore?
Her 10/23 2359: Just dating I guess. I mean I don’t want a one night stand.
Her 10/24 0000: How do you feel?
Me 10/24 0002: I feel open minded.
Her 10/24 0002: Not that we have to date. We could just meet. I just meant I felt locked down by being in a committed relationship. And that’s why I broke up. Because if I was crazy in love I probably wouldn’t have gone out for a drink with you that night.
Me 10/24 0006: Well, I think you’re cute and interesting, and I want something more than just friends. We can meet up when I am back, if you’d like. What do you think? <Avoiding a friend only zone>
Her 10/24 0009: Sure but when you said you might not be able to hold yourself back what did you mean? Because I wouldn’t want to move too fast.
Me 10/24 0012: I guess we will have to meet up in person and see…
Her 10/24 0014: Lol ok. What do you want to do? Go for dinner and drinks maybe?
Me 10/24 0016: I’ll be in touch with you when I get back in two weeks.
<texting continues for another half hour, I have to get better at just cutting it off, seems to be a theme in my interactions>
We have another long text exchange on 10/30 and 11/4. Then finally this on 11/18:
Me 1343: Hey Maria! How’ve you been? I am headed back to NYC tomorrow, vacation is over =(. Thinking we should grab that coffee though, how’s your week looking?
Her 1356: Coffee sounds good!
Me 1359: Cool =) what days work best?
Her 1400: I have time tomorrow, Thursday early afternoon, and Friday
Her 1401: And Wednesday if it’s later in the day.
Me 1408: What do you mean later in the day Wednesday?
Her 1409: Later in the afternoon like around 2
Her 1409: And before 7
Her 1422: Thursday I can meet before 3
Her 1423: How does your week work?
Me 1425: Yeah actually that would work, I have something weds at 6:30 (I think). Let’s plan on Wednesday, I’ll get back to you about the time tomorrow. Does that sound good?
Her 1425: Yep!
Me 1431: Cool.
Wednesday 11/20:
Anyway we agree to meet at 4:15, I show up at the place at 4:30 and she showed up a bit late around 4:45 or so.
She was pretty excited to see me. She was dressed nice but also in an outfit that showed off some cleavage. We sat across from each other at a table and started deep diving almost immediately. There was plenty to talk about here, as we’d been texting for a while, so we got into traveling first. I had her guess where I went, which she was terrible at, and then we broadened that into where she would really like to go and where she’s been, as well as the traveling she’s already done. This moved the conversation to the direction of books and such, as I transitioned to things she’s reading, and it turns out she’s reading a bit about spirituality and self discovery, and seems to share an interest in observing people, behaviors, and reading them. This led us to play an amazing game: up to this point I had been touching and holding her hand sporadically to make a point, but it’s not like gripping it to really tell how she’s feeling; she mentioned a game she read in a book about a guy that was able to hold someone’s hand while closing his eyes as the “someone” picked an object in the room, and then he’d name the object. So we played this game, and I started, which meant I held her hand tightly on the table. I guessed the object on the third try, and she never guessed my object, but it meant we got to hold hands.
I’ll also note that she was leaning into the table virtually the entire time, and had very powerful eye contact, and also sometimes moved her lips nervously especially when we were hand holding after that point. I could tell there was some kind of tension. Somewhere in this I told her she’s a charming and intelligent, and very intellectual girl, but that there’s something beneath the surface I sense she’s hiding, but she shouldn’t be.
Here’s where it gets interesting: I tell her I have to get going soon, but also ask her what her plans are in the evening. She says she has a dinner but then she’s free. Oh, well, I happen to be free after 9, and then ask her if she’d like to meet after and continue the night. She says yes, she’d like that. Attraction seems to be pretty freaking high here. However, when the bill came she didn’t even motion to her purse, it’s like she just expected me to pay. It was only $7 so NBD, but I wonder if I should play around with making them pay, or wait till I am at a higher level.
We’re walking to the subway before splitting in different directions, and I start to hold her hand as I’m walking. She’s much smaller than me so holding her hand is kind of awkward; I go with it. Everything seems positive and I ask her if she enjoyed herself, and if she thinks we should continue the night. The answer to both questions was yes. So at an intersection we part ways and I gave her a kiss on the cheek with a tight hug.
-----
Fast forward to around 9:30pm: she still wants to meet, so I have her come to me and we don’t really know what to do. I suggest an intimate drinks bar around the corner, and this is where things got heavier. I had just finished reading all the GC articles on framing this week, so I use this opportunity to set up some frames. First, that I’m non-judgmental, and I do this by contrasting my family to myself and how I think differently, and also bring up that I went to a meetup that’s all about self improvement and making yourself better, and that one of the things to really be a powerful person is to be all accepting. This conversation is slowly guided into the realm of sexuality, and I start to discuss with her how our society has conditioned us to think a certain way about sex and intimacy, when in fact people, especially girls, have no idea how powerful their sexuality can be and how liberating it is when you can actually reach out and do the things you really want. She’s agreeing with pretty much all of this and sharing her own experiences and feelings about this. I start being more physical as I’m doing this, and begin to caress her back. Somehow we start talking about if she’s a sensual person, and she is but doesn’t like anyone else to know about it. I agree and tell her that these are things that should only be shared between two people, and no one else really needs to know what two people do with each other. Jealousy, lack of communication, and other people mess up this paradigm. She also agrees.
The tension has definitely risen. I start massaging her back a little more and ask her where she likes to be touched. We start a game where we share fantasies, and later what we’d like to do to each other by whispering in our ears. Every time she told me something I said something along the lines of “that’s really hot!” or “wow, I love it” and also told her that I appreciate how refreshingly open she is about her sensual side. All this is going well….except that we’re in a public place, I can’t escalate, she lives at home with parents, and we’re an hour and 15 min from my house.
I bring up her coming over, and for a while she starts to agree that she should come. I tell her it’s not far, and that I can drop her back home later. She basically tells me she wants to take this further. Problem is the time is now 11:15, 11:30 and she doesn’t want to get home too late because her parents will know that she didn’t come home. I came SOOOO close to convincing her that she should just do it anyway, but failed. The pickle came after we left this place at 11:30.
Logistics problems:
- It’s NYC, too many people outside (can’t go public)
- It’s winter and the temperature is around 30F (can’t go to a park or anywhere else outside)
- I don’t know any places with a large bathroom nearby or anything
- We went to a bank ATM area to stay warm, where I tried to convince her further and also came super close, but also kissed her finally here and maybe this was a bad idea to release tension. Now we’re kissing in public which she doesn't like anyway.
She says she would come home with me if I lived closer, but because I don’t and because she wants to be home she can’t. I feel I pushed as hard as I could to sell her on the idea, but also think that I should have just grabbed her and say “let’s go” because she was pretty much on the edge anyway. Now instead we decide to walk to some other bar that I know will be pretty intimate. She also says she wants to come over tomorrow night instead, but has a work engagement till 9:30pm (also pushing it on the time)
I bring up again on the walk over that we should do this crazy adventure. She picks up on it and asks why I want her to come to my place so badly, and I respond that I just like adventures, and that would be a fun one, then quickly switch topics. This time I was being too pushy.
We move to the cozier bar. There are only two other people there and we’re essentially cuddling on a couch, but it’s still not private. Anyway, I continue the game where we left off. I whisper into her ear “I’d love to touch and caress your boobs and pinch your nipples,” and then I ask her in a regular voice “would you like that?” She replies, “yes,” and so my facial expression changes to a poker face, and I look her directly in the eyes while I move my hands to her breasts and start to explore them over her clothes.
This girl has probably the nicest boobs I have ever felt in my life, very firm and comfortable. They were great!!! I’m feeling her up through her clothes, and then also motion my hand into her inner thigh, then around her pussy (over her jeans) and ask her if she likes being touched there too. She says yes. At some point in continuing our game, she says she’s starting to feel uncomfortable. I ask her if it’s because we’re in a public place, and when she says yes I tell her that we should have just gone up to my area, then laugh and move on to a different subject altogether. I think we’re talking more about family and relationships that our siblings have.
The time is now closer to 12:30 and I tell her we should start heading back, I need to catch the last train. As we’re walking down to the subway we’re holding hands, and somehow the topic of relationships comes up. She’s asking me how many I’ve been in, I laugh and just say “a couple,” then ask her and she replies the same. I then tell her that it’s weird when people put labels on things, and that people just mess things up that way with jealousy and the like. Somehow we get to the topic of what we’re looking for, and she mentions something about friends with fun on the side. I ask her what she thinks of that, and she said that she likes it. GREAT, this is what I want!! I tell her I like that she knows what she wants, and that I don’t like labels and attachment. We’re still holding hands, and before getting to the station she says she still feels some tension between us.
We part ways at the station, I give her two kisses and tell her that I’m looking forward to seeing her tomorrow, and that if she needs I am able to drive her home later in that night (since it’s pretty far to my house).
I did not text her to see how she got home, this isn’t something that we had talked about. We both live about an hour and 15 minutes from where we were but in different directions.
Thursday 11/21
So we had agreed the last night to go home together tonight. I don’t know why I did this, I wasn’t thinking, but still, I thought it made sense. I didn’t prepare a back-up adequately either, as I trained it in rather than driving.
Frame encounter:
Her 1942: Hey. I don’t think I want to go to Westchester. Sorry it’s too far.
Me 1944: Then how in the world are you going to get your massage? ;-) I am able to drop you back home.
Her 2001: Haha well you never asked me how I got home last night
Me 2002: Oh, what do you mean? I don’t recall us talking about that.
Me 2004: What time do you think you’ll be at [station]?
Her 2008: Well it’s something we should have talked about
Her 2008: You just never texted me to see how I got home.
Me 2010: Ah, I see, I did not understand that you expect that.
Me 2011: Thank you for clarifying that.
Her 2024: I guess I do
Me 2026: No worries Maria, it’s good to know ;-). What time will you be at Grand Central?
Her 2026: Not sure yet.
Me 2027: Cool
Her 2110: This event doesn’t end until 9:30 so I’m not going to be done until 10pm.
Me 2110: That’s fine.
Her 2110: I’m not going to grand central sorry. It’s too late.
Me 2121: Ok maybe next time.
Her 2200: Yep. I actually just left.
Me 2200: Cool, let me know you make it home safe?
Her 2001: Ok I will.
----
Her 0142: Hey. Just got home. Hope you had a fun night!
Me 0143: Damn, sounds like it took a while. Good night.
Her 0144: Well I didn’t go straight home. Good night.
Mistakes:
- Should have suggested we hang out at my place earlier on in the first date. The critical point was when we continued the date later in the night, I should have brought up going to my place for a bit then, although this is before I really got her into the mood.
- Not driving into the city the second time, I could have probably picked her up and done something in a car.
- Supplication to her request to check on her getting home, probably killed some attraction.
- I got jealous over her very last text, this is not a good thing to do. She probably did end up with someone else that night. Hmm…
What do you guys think I should do? How should I approach continuing things with her, if at all? Is it too late? I haven’t heard from her or tried to reach out to her ever since this.
I am going to be out of town for the next two weeks, so my current plan is that on my way back I am going to tell her: “[M!] Sorry, I’ve been away, I was out of town for a while. How’ve you been? Thinking we should meet in the city soon, what’s your schedule like the next week or two?”
