FU Can persistence backfire?

[Calibration]

I'm hesitant to call this a FU since I'm not sure if I fucked up at all

I met a super hot french chic on Sunday last week. She works for one of the top designer brands and has model like looks. After texting marathon, we went out on a date today.

Although over text she said she's not open to casual sex (which I had brushed it off), all we talked about was sex for 2.5 hrs.

She kept saying she'll have sex only with someone exclusive etc and I reframed it multiple times saying every exclusive relationship starts with sex at some point, you'll know you want to have exclusive relationship only after you have sex etc and looked like she gave into my frame but I didn't want her to lose face. So, I changed the subject quickly.

She was super interested in sex-talk and she was eating out of my hands when I was explaining 8-orgasm gambit. If I got back to social frame, she'd pull me back to sex-talk to continue talking about it. When I said I have done workshops on Tantric sex, she was deer in the headlights.

I talked at least 3-4 gambits and lots and lots of sex. Her sexual fantasies, my sexual fantasies etc.

I had made a booking for us on the balcony in the restaurant and I escalated a lot and she was loving it. I recently read about 60yoc's technique about seducing holding hands, I guess most senior members know that. That worked like a charm (I'll make a separate post about it). Anyway, throughout the interaction I was caressing her neck and lightly chocking and pulling her hair.

She had not given her number before and we were talking only on IG DM but she offered Whatsapp herself saying, take my WhatsApp.

Anyway, I seeded the pull a couple of times to watch a TV show at my place. She probably thought it was on another day. So, when we got out of the restaurant, here is how the interaction went:

Me: Night is too young, it's just 8:00 PM, lets go back to mine and chill

She: No, not today I need to go back to my place. I need to rest up since I'm going for a long run tomorrow

Me: Ya, but you aren't working tomorrow. So, you'll still have a lot of time to sleep

She: Ya but this is too early (she meant too early for sex)

Me: (I purposely twisted it) Ya, that's what I'm saying, it's too early let's go back to my place and chill

She: Omg! No, I meant too early to sleep with you

Me: (I purposely twisted it again) No, let's not sleep. We'll watch something

She: No, I mean too early to come to your place. Omg! I didn't know that you're so much in a hurry

At this point, conversation became a bit logical and I noticed that sexual tension was dying and so I backed off totally.

I didn't want to let her go on a low note. So, I drove her to see my favorite spot and she loved it. It was raining and we were sitting inside the car and watching the ocean and the rain. All the while caressing her thighs and neck which she was enjoying.

On one hand, I was tempted to kiss her and on the other hand, I was not sure if I can close the deal with so much negative compliance earlier. So, I didn't go ahead any further and just dropped her off, after that.

On the way dropping her, I did a very stupid thing. She asked me, if I have dated any french girl before, I said yes and told her the city name and she asked me the girl's name. I don't know why I blurted out the name, she immediately checked on my Instagram, although I told her not to do that.

The girl that I had dated years ago has now become super-fat and she asked, "is she the one?". I said no and then I tried my best to cover up saying, no she's not the one. I think I removed her from followers etc and there was some major snafu.

One major win is, there were many many frame battles during this past week and even during the date but I didn't get logical like in the past and disagree with her which was my major sticking point but reframe it to suit both of us.

Anyway, driving back home I was thinking, whether it was a good idea to persist or not. Cos she looked like she'd have hooked up next time but me pushing it too much fucked it up.

Any thoughts?

 

[Chad Tyrone]

Great you setting sexual frames but u shouldn't be talking about sex hours long ...you wanna switch back to social frame or being social now and then to avoid inflating your material.Basically fractionating between the two.I agree u did but u want to leave her wanting more.

You don't back out to save face.Make sure u reframe elsewise her frame wins.Frame control is everything.U want ur sexual frame(s) reinforced mostly.Could have communicated that u are not bf material from the go ... possibly she was slow gaming you.... thinking of you as a potential boyfriend

So instead of changing the subject quickly u could have transitioned into the sexual subjectification gambit (don't know if u've seen it yet)Show that u think or rather believe that sexual objectification could come down to one lying about having feelings about a girl merely to get in her pants ...then say that when a guy communicates that all he wanted was sex (indirectly of course)right out of the gate and the girl went in knowing then it's her problem...since women have autonomy in their choices else they are objects

Somewhere in your interaction maybe she knew she got you.Either you fucked up the metaframe .She knew what was up.Anyway my guess.Could have said "who talked of sleeping together,u naughty one"(homage?) with a playful tone and smirk on ur face .Then go for the hard push.


But yeah I bet she thinks or thought of you as a potential bf.

Then the interaction goes south.U don't want leaving her on a low note but u chasing.She negatively complied but then u reward her by more touching.Reward good behavior.Punish bad behavior.

You then mess with discretion.Shouldn't have mentioned the french girl.U wanna make her feel desire for you and yet feel allowed.By telling her the french girl's name u hurt this frame.She may be afraid of hooking up with you and have her reputation damaged.


Make the lover frame congruent(make her feel desire and also feel allowed to act on them),then worry about persistence later

U persist by taking note of her reactions to ur moves and then calibrating from there.She didn't seem to resist so I guess too much use of material,incongruent lover frames or seeing you as a potential bf was the problem.

My two cents.

~Chad Tyrone

 

[Calibration]

Great you setting sexual frames but u shouldn't be talking about sex hours long ...you wanna switch back to social frame or being social now and then to avoid inflating your material.Basically fractionating between the two.I agree u did but u want to leave her wanting more.

I'm a noob in sex-talk. So, I'm still calibrating but probably yesterday was the best I've ever had.

You don't back out to save face.Make sure u reframe elsewise her frame wins.Frame control is everything.U want ur sexual frame(s) reinforced mostly.Could have communicated that u are not bf material from the go ... possibly she was slow gaming you.... thinking of you as a potential boyfriend

True. Although I was reframing, my frame wasn't as strong as hers since I couldn't back up. When she said "there is no need to rush to have sex", I didn't know how to reframe that. I reframed her objections about sex without exclusivity but I didn't have a frame to counter the need to do it quickly.

So instead of changing the subject quickly u could have transitioned into the sexual subjectification gambit (don't know if u've seen it yet)Show that u think or rather believe that sexual objectification could come down to one lying about having feelings about a girl merely to get in her pants ...then say that when a guy communicates that all he wanted was sex (indirectly of course)right out of the gate and the girl went in knowing then it's her problem...since women have autonomy in their choices else they are objects

Thanks for the Gambit, I just read that. I talked something similar. When she said "guys just want sex", I said "Ya, most guys are like that sadly, I don't know why guys are selfish. For me, sex is about mutual acceptance with immense desire. For example, I like to eat pussy and that's my favorite. I can do that only if I desire the girl. I don't even enjoy penis inside vagina as much as eating out. For me, eating out is a symbol of how much I desire her. So, for me sex is about desiring the other person more than anything"

Somewhere in your interaction maybe she knew she got you.Either you fucked up the metaframe .She knew what was up.Anyway my guess.Could have said "who talked of sleeping together,u naughty one"(homage?) with a playful tone and smirk on ur face .Then go for the hard push.


But yeah I bet she thinks or thought of you as a potential bf.

You're right. I was presenting conflicting frames. On one hand, I was talking about sex a lot, preselection with how one girl likes something but the other likes something else etc, my actions were incongruent cos I drove her to a restaurant and we had a sumptuous dinner(wine and dine BF frame) etc. So, she was not able to relate. But the whole premise of me getting her out was for dinner since that was what we had planned when I approached her.

Then the interaction goes south.U don't want leaving her on a low note but u chasing.She negatively complied but then u reward her by more touching.Reward good behavior.Punish bad behavior.

Oh! I didn't even realize this. But I don't think she wouldn't have been bothered if I pulled away from escalation anyway.

You then mess with discretion.Shouldn't have mentioned the french girl.U wanna make her feel desire for you and yet feel allowed.By telling her the french girl's name u hurt this frame.She may be afraid of hooking up with you and have her reputation damaged.

Yes!!! It was super dumb of me to do that. I think I said that to show preselection and make it believable but I didn't realize of the consequences.

Make the lover frame congruent(make her feel desire and also feel allowed to act on them),then worry about persistence later

my frame was not strong. Btw, I don't know if you know but I posted recently how all my interactions go south when it comes to frame control. Guys here suggested to not get into logical arguments like I do with guys. So, for me whatever I did yesterday was probably the best I've done ever.

U persist by taking note of her reactions to ur moves and then calibrating from there.She didn't seem to resist so I guess too much use of material,incongruent lover frames or seeing you as a potential bf was the problem.

My two cents.

~Chad Tyrone

Thanks for the review and feedback

 

[Skills]

I'm hesitant to call this a FU since I'm not sure if I fucked up at all

I met a super hot french chic on Sunday last week. She works for one of the top designer brands and has model like looks. After texting marathon, we went out on a date today.

Although over text she said she's not open to casual sex (which I had brushed it off), all we talked about was sex for 2.5 hrs.

She kept saying she'll have sex only with someone exclusive etc and I reframed it multiple times saying every exclusive relationship starts with sex at some point, you'll know you want to have exclusive relationship only after you have sex etc and looked like she gave into my frame but I didn't want her to lose face. So, I changed the subject quickly.

She was super interested in sex-talk and she was eating out of my hands when I was explaining 8-orgasm gambit. If I got back to social frame, she'd pull me back to sex-talk to continue talking about it. When I said I have done workshops on Tantric sex, she was deer in the headlights.

I talked at least 3-4 gambits and lots and lots of sex. Her sexual fantasies, my sexual fantasies etc.

I had made a booking for us on the balcony in the restaurant and I escalated a lot and she was loving it. I recently read about 60yoc's technique about seducing holding hands, I guess most senior members know that. That worked like a charm (I'll make a separate post about it). Anyway, throughout the interaction I was caressing her neck and lightly chocking and pulling her hair.

She had not given her number before and we were talking only on IG DM but she offered Whatsapp herself saying, take my WhatsApp.

Anyway, I seeded the pull a couple of times to watch a TV show at my place. She probably thought it was on another day. So, when we got out of the restaurant, here is how the interaction went:

Me: Night is too young, it's just 8:00 PM, lets go back to mine and chill

She: No, not today I need to go back to my place. I need to rest up since I'm going for a long run tomorrow

Me: Ya, but you aren't working tomorrow. So, you'll still have a lot of time to sleep

She: Ya but this is too early (she meant too early for sex)

Me: (I purposely twisted it) Ya, that's what I'm saying, it's too early let's go back to my place and chill

She: Omg! No, I meant too early to sleep with you

Me: (I purposely twisted it again) No, let's not sleep. We'll watch something

She: No, I mean too early to come to your place. Omg! I didn't know that you're so much in a hurry

At this point, conversation became a bit logical and I noticed that sexual tension was dying and so I backed off totally.

I didn't want to let her go on a low note. So, I drove her to see my favorite spot and she loved it. It was raining and we were sitting inside the car and watching the ocean and the rain. All the while caressing her thighs and neck which she was enjoying.

On one hand, I was tempted to kiss her and on the other hand, I was not sure if I can close the deal with so much negative compliance earlier. So, I didn't go ahead any further and just dropped her off, after that.

On the way dropping her, I did a very stupid thing. She asked me, if I have dated any french girl before, I said yes and told her the city name and she asked me the girl's name. I don't know why I blurted out the name, she immediately checked on my Instagram, although I told her not to do that.

The girl that I had dated years ago has now become super-fat and she asked, "is she the one?". I said no and then I tried my best to cover up saying, no she's not the one. I think I removed her from followers etc and there was some major snafu.

One major win is, there were many many frame battles during this past week and even during the date but I didn't get logical like in the past and disagree with her which was my major sticking point but reframe it to suit both of us.

Anyway, driving back home I was thinking, whether it was a good idea to persist or not. Cos she looked like she'd have hooked up next time but me pushing it too much fucked it up.

Any thoughts?

She is and was interested somewhere along the date it was not enough influence and you got into negative loop, which is not ideal, the lay was not there though she still was intersted..if you had an ex that got fat or ugly own it, this is normal and happens a lot specially in usa women gain between 5 to 10 pounds a year, or they get old and look like crap, specially when they settle for none seducers that dont have boundaries on how women look during relationship...finally when you do second gen correctly plausible dinability is just a formality they should be ready to accept, did a post on this called difference between plausible deniability vs bait and switch

The difference between plausible deniability and bait and switch and when to use both.....

Alright guys, i already explain this in a thread of i Believe @Shawn but yesterday a dude in my crew face the same issue, so i will explain here for everyone, and if it happens i just can be lazy and link this post.... 1st what is plausible deniability (i kind of like this one from urban...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Calibration]

She is and was interested somewhere along the date it was not enough influence and you got into negative loop, which is not ideal, the lay was not there though she still was intersted..if you had an ex that got fat or ugly own it, this is normal and happens a lot specially in usa women gain between 5 to 10 pounds a year, or they get old and look like crap, specially when they settle for none seducers that dont have boundaries on how women look during relationship...

Good point on owning it

finally when you do second gen correctly plausible dinability is just a formality they should be ready to accept, did a post on this called difference between plausible deniability vs bait and switch

The difference between plausible deniability and bait and switch and when to use both.....

Alright guys, i already explain this in a thread of i Believe @Shawn but yesterday a dude in my crew face the same issue, so i will explain here for everyone, and if it happens i just can be lazy and link this post.... 1st what is plausible deniability (i kind of like this one from urban...

www.skilledseducer.com

I know this post by-heart. You created this post for me. Yesterday I was thinking the same.. @Skills tells not to bounce until she's ready. Is she ready to bounce? Have I done second-gen? YES. Have I done enough kino to arouse her? YES. Have I found out her logistics? YES. Ok, so chances of her saying YES is high. So, let me go for it.

I failed her frame when she asked, "why does it have to be so urgent?". I didn't know how to reframe that objection

 

[Skills]

Good point on owning it

I know this post by-heart. You created this post for me. Yesterday I was thinking the same.. @Skills tells not to bounce until she's ready. Is she ready to bounce? Have I done second-gen? YES. Have I done enough kino to arouse her? YES. Have I found out her logistics? YES. Ok, so chances of her saying YES is high. So, let me go for it.

I failed her frame when she asked, "why does it have to be so urgent?". I didn't know how to reframe that objection

As i told you in pm owning it you need to save social frame and explain that when she was with you she was attractive and after you she left herself go so she knows you have boundaries and for her if she makes it with you not let herself go... again, you did not have the pull, when you have the pull women complient, there is no negative loop dude...

How to increase your chances if the lay is not there on the meet

Disclaimer.- this will be a long comprehensive post but it will totally help you big time, so read it and understand it... Most of the dudes including seducers are still living in the wrong century, or flat out they are not out there gaming or are pretty much kj, because i really don't...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Calibration]

As i told you in pm owning it you need to save social frame and explain that when she was with you she was attractive and after you she left herself go so she knows you have boundaries and for her if she makes it with you not let herself go... again, you did not have the pull, when you have the pull women complient, there is no negative loop dude...

How to increase your chances if the lay is not there on the meet

Disclaimer.- this will be a long comprehensive post but it will totally help you big time, so read it and understand it... Most of the dudes including seducers are still living in the wrong century, or flat out they are not out there gaming or are pretty much kj, because i really don't...

www.skilledseducer.com

You're damn right @Skills . I read the post you linked above and it is 100% correct. There was no lay. No matter what I had done, there was no lay. Period.

All the attraction, value and compliance that I had built came crashing down after I started persisting like a desperate dog. Fuck!

When I was driving her to my favorite spot that I mentioned above, she randomly said "All you men are the same fucking stupid dogs" in a disappointed tone. I smirked at her.

Right in the beginning she mentioned about a date that she had went on and how the guy pretended to have a relationship but all he wanted was sex and she was so disgusted about it. She said she's ok if the guy is honest about having sex but hates it when they pretend it. I reframed it saying, ya most guys just have sex without connection and she loved all of that and in the end I did the same. Lol

Either she has had experiences of pump and dump which is why she doesn't want to do first night sex or she asked me what disgusts me in sex, I said "I like to eat a girl's pussy and so she needs to be clean". I'm guessing she hadn't shaved or something. So, she wasn't ready. There can be a lot of reasons that I can't think of but the lay was definitely not there.

Yesterday was the last time I'll ever persist again. I'll persist only if it is token resistance which definitely was not the case yesterday. Thanks @Skills that was an eye-opener for me.

Damn! She was the hottest I had ever been with, feels a bit painful to lose her.

 

[Chad Tyrone]

I'm a noob in sex-talk. So, I'm still calibrating but probably yesterday was the best I've ever had.

Gotcha.I believe there's more to sex talk than most realize... transitioning into it, understanding it's mechanics, delivering it in a smooth way that isn't robotic, fractionating in and out of it and a lot more.Seems u tried

True. Although I was reframing, my frame wasn't as strong as hers since I couldn't back up. When she said "there is no need to rush to have sex", I didn't know how to reframe that. I reframed her objections about sex without exclusivity but I didn't have a frame to counter the need to do it quickly.

Again as Skills says she shouldn't bring this up if u used verbals correctly.I mean you wanna use sex talk indirectly that she keeps questioning herself if u gonna fuck her .Don't know if u told her what u'll do to her when talking about sexual fantasies.Of course some can be direct with sex talk and get the lay but it's lower odds most of the time

Thanks for the Gambit, I just read that. I talked something similar. When she said "guys just want sex", I said "Ya, most guys are like that sadly, I don't know why guys are selfish. For me, sex is about mutual acceptance with immense desire. For example, I like to eat pussy and that's my favorite. I can do that only if I desire the girl. I don't even enjoy penis inside vagina as much as eating out. For me, eating out is a symbol of how much I desire her. So, for me sex is about desiring the other person more than anything"

Should have said it differently...u don't just use gambits to use gambits.U kinda pace her reality of guys "wanting sex" but also kinda lead wrongly.I mean u talked of mutuality but in the end it seemed one-sided.

"I enjoy eating pussy and that's my favorite.I can do that only if I desire the girl and she enjoys it too." Something of the like would have been better then branch into orgasm control.But u brought it up at the wrong time when she knows what u want with her and then framed it the wrong way. Anyway,my opinion.

She might even have thought u r kissing up to chicks when giving them oral...orgasm control could have helped cause u communicate that u r in control of her pleasure and know what u r doing.

Again I emphasize reading on mechanics of most gambits to know the right time to bring them up.

my frame was not strong. Btw, I don't know if you know but I posted recently how all my interactions go south when it comes to frame control. Guys here suggested to not get into logical arguments like I do with guys. So, for me whatever I did yesterday was probably the best I've done ever.

Then read about frame control.Alek and Chase have talked about it over at the site.

Meet more chicks too and practice a lot more.

~Chad Tyrone

 

[Skills]

You're damn right @Skills . I read the post you linked above and it is 100% correct. There was no lay. No matter what I had done, there was no lay. Period.

All the attraction, value and compliance that I had built came crashing down after I started persisting like a desperate dog. Fuck!

When I was driving her to my favorite spot that I mentioned above, she randomly said "All you men are the same fucking stupid dogs" in a disappointed tone. I smirked at her.

Right in the beginning she mentioned about a date that she had went on and how the guy pretended to have a relationship but all he wanted was sex and she was so disgusted about it. She said she's ok if the guy is honest about having sex but hates it when they pretend it. I reframed it saying, ya most guys just have sex without connection and she loved all of that and in the end I did the same. Lol

Either she has had experiences of pump and dump which is why she doesn't want to do first night sex or she asked me what disgusts me in sex, I said "I like to eat a girl's pussy and so she needs to be clean". I'm guessing she hadn't shaved or something. So, she wasn't ready. There can be a lot of reasons that I can't think of but the lay was definitely not there.

Yesterday was the last time I'll ever persist again. I'll persist only if it is token resistance which definitely was not the case yesterday. Thanks @Skills that was an eye-opener for me.

Damn! She was the hottest I had ever been with, feels a bit painful to lose her.

Dude, now i know what happened, no that post does not apply to this scenario, since you clearly fucked up, i specifically told you and explained to you that you needed to address the pump and dump that she brought it up on text, i specifically told you to address that objection, you clearly told me via pm you were going to do it in person, so no, the link does not apply to you since you did not address all objections....

The post is post addressing all possible objections, you did not address correctly the pump and dump objection but double down in some stupidity on eating pussy.... Facepalm!

 

[Calibration]

Dude, now i know what happened, no that post does not apply to this scenario, since you clearly fucked up, i specifically told you and explained to you that you needed to address the pump and dump that she brought it up on text, i specifically told you to address that objection, you clearly told me via pm you were going to do it in person, so no, the link does not apply to you since you did not address all objections....

The post is post addressing all possible objections, you did not address correctly the pump and dump objection but double down in some stupidity on eating pussy.... Facepalm!

No bro, I addressed it here

Right in the beginning she mentioned about a date that she had went on and how the guy pretended to have a relationship but all he wanted was sex and she was so disgusted about it. She said she's ok if the guy is honest about having sex but hates it when they pretend it. I reframed it saying, ya most guys just have sex without connection and she loved all of that and in the end I did the same. Lol

I elaborated this a lot. I said I don't like to fuck drunk girls. What's the point? After you have sex, you need to remember that experience even after several months. It's not bam-bam thank you ma'am

I think she had just made up her mind to not have sex yesterday

 

[Calibration]

Gotcha.I believe there's more to sex talk than most realize... transitioning into it, understanding it's mechanics, delivering it in a smooth way that isn't robotic, fractionating in and out of it and a lot more.Seems u tried



Again as Skills says she shouldn't bring this up if u used verbals correctly.I mean you wanna use sex talk indirectly that she keeps questioning herself if u gonna fuck her .Don't know if u told her what u'll do to her when talking about sexual fantasies.Of course some can be direct with sex talk and get the lay but it's lower odds most of the time

I didn't mention anything that I'll do to HER. But isn't it obvious if I'm talking a lot about sex and then I invite her home, I'll be doing that too her?

Should have said it differently...u don't just use gambits to use gambits.U kinda pace her reality of guys "wanting sex" but also kinda lead wrongly.I mean u talked of mutuality but in the end it seemed one-sided.

"I enjoy eating pussy and that's my favorite.I can do that only if I desire the girl and she enjoys it too." Something of the like would have been better then branch into orgasm control.But u brought it up at the wrong time when she knows what u want with her and then framed it the wrong way. Anyway,my opinion.

She might even have thought u r kissing up to chicks when giving them oral...orgasm control could have helped cause u communicate that u r in control of her pleasure and know what u r doing.

I don't think verbals were bad at all cos I could notice that there was a logical transition of topics reframing her objections, rewarding her compliance etc. All I can think of is, she was just not mentally prepared yesterday and probably had told herself that I'm not gonna get laid tonight.

Btw, I've mentioned to many chicks that I like eating out. I think that most chicks see it as "sexual pricing" more than PIV since she's heard a lot of guys bragging about fucking hard but eating out is a niche skill and not a lot of guys would express that desire.

Again I emphasize reading on mechanics of most gambits to know the right time to bring them up.

Then read about frame control.Alek and Chase have talked about it over at the site.

Meet more chicks too and practice a lot more.

~Chad Tyrone

What I'm thinking is, the transition from leaving the restaurant to let's go back to my place is 0-100mph which is what triggers her ASD. I think creating a logical yes ladder would've probably worked better. Like, what plans for tomorrow?
I've got to go out for a run.
Cool, you'll need energy then.
Yes
You need to get good sleep
Yes
What time are you going?
9 am
Ok, so that's late
What time do you normally do to sleep?
10 pm
Ok.. so, we still have time together
Yes/No
If yes, then let's hang out. If no, then don't persist

What do you think?

 

[Calibration]

I'm still a bit freaked out after she sent this text the next day. I'm wondering if it's all worth the hassle. She was a completely different person in-person, she was enjoying the escalation and didn't resist at all.
She said latins are very touchy and she didn't like that. So, I said I'm touchy too and touched her upper shoulder and she said "You're fine". I said your eyelashes are amazing as if you've stuck fake ones and she made me touch them (twice) to prove that they're not fake. So, I did get consent to touch in a way. But now she's complaining about touching her.

I shouldn't have escalated if I was not going to pull but since she was not resisting, I simply kept escalating, which was a mistake.

In order to not come across as a boyfriend, I offered to split the bill. I said, either we split the bill or I'll pay this time and you can pay next time and she offered to split.

https://imgur.com/a/VpHIvC5

I'm guessing that after persisting and when she saw the picture of the fat girl I dated, she lost value for me and thought I'm low-value or something. Or in contrary, I said I was on a date with a hot Latina in the past and she said something nasty and so I ended the date. She asked me, how hot was she? Can I see her picture? I said I don't kiss and tell. So, no I can't show her picture. So, maybe she auto-rejected. I don't really know. One thing was certain, she was super insecure. Throughout the date, I only complimented her on her qualities and didn't compliment on her looks. Probably that made her auto-reject. I don't really know.

Honestly I don't know what to say. I'm wondering how safe I'm and how safe is seduction really cos she may turn against you even after sex:

1. A chic may like everything in the moment and when she loses the emotional high, she may regret what she did and end up turning against you.

2. She mentioned she was on antidepressants and therapy until recently. I didn't guess she can be two different people though. So, she maybe bipolar or something. How do you know if she's not crazy?

3. She may just be malicious and put on an act and then turn against you.

4. She may ask for resources or commitment and if you don't give what she asks, she may turn against you.

So, basically a chic may turn against you at anytime. How do we make sure to be safe and what if she ends up lying like above? I'm honestly still very freaked out.

I discussed it with @Skills privately and he gave me a few pointers and said he'll make a comprehensive post soon.

In the meantime, I've read a lot of your @Chase since yesterday including an article about buyer's remorse but that was post sex but couldn't find anything on the main site regarding this. Do you have some thoughts?

 

[Chad Tyrone]

I'm still a bit freaked out after she sent this text the next day. I'm wondering if it's all worth the hassle. She was a completely different person in-person, she was enjoying the escalation and didn't resist at all.
She said latins are very touchy and she didn't like that. So, I said I'm touchy too and touched her upper shoulder and she said "You're fine". I said your eyelashes are amazing as if you've stuck fake ones and she made me touch them (twice) to prove that they're not fake. So, I did get consent to touch in a way. But now she's complaining about touching her.

I shouldn't have escalated if I was not going to pull but since she was not resisting, I simply kept escalating, which was a mistake.

In order to not come across as a boyfriend, I offered to split the bill. I said, either we split the bill or I'll pay this time and you can pay next time and she offered to split.

https://imgur.com/a/VpHIvC5

I'm guessing that after persisting and when she saw the picture of the fat girl I dated, she lost value for me and thought I'm low-value or something. I don't really know.

Honestly I don't know what to say. I'm wondering how safe I'm and how safe is seduction really cos she may turn against you even after sex:

1. A chic may like everything in the moment and when she loses the emotional high, she may regret what she did and end up turning against you.

2. She mentioned she was on antidepressants and therapy until recently. I didn't guess she can be two different people though. So, she maybe bipolar or something. How do you know if she's not crazy?

3. She may just be malicious and put on an act and then turn against you.

4. She may ask for resources or commitment and if you don't give what she asks, she may turn against you.

So, basically a chic may turn against you at anytime. How do we make sure to be safe and what if she ends up lying like above? I'm honestly still very freaked out.

I discussed it with @Skills privately and he gave me a few pointers and said he'll make a comprehensive post soon.

In the meantime, I've read a lot of your @Chase since yesterday including an article about buyer's remorse but that was post sex but couldn't find anything on the main site regarding this. Do you have some thoughts?

Cut your loss and move on bro.She's basically in auto -rejection mode.Yeah I understand u still think u got it with her and try to save the interaction but consider it a done deal.

With touching if u r doing it right I won't worry much.U don't wanna seem reluctant when touching her,don't look at ur hands when doing too...treat touch as a normal thing.

Of course u wanna steer clear off crazy chicks who may accuse you of stuff but again shouldn't bother u any if u r doing it right.Hardly had chicks complaining me touching them... actually they melt into it.Lol don't take dating advice from women.Honestly touch is essential in your interactions with women....brings about a ripple effect and shows u r a sexual guy and therefore u don't get boxed into the friend -zone.

Ur compliment sounds cheesy or neg-y...anyway if u r going for compliments check out genuine compliments over at the site.

That being said don't stop touching women ...keep doing it and notice how far u can go with touch/escalation within reason of course...u'll never learn if u avoid it completely.

You also don't have to hold doors for chicks or pay bills to have chicks come home with you.Have had chicks calling me gentleman minutes into talking to them and I hardly did any of such she's telling you.All you need is to be the leader and invite her to yours.

With #1 you wanna set the right expectations from the go...let her know what u r all about and what she's getting herself into.Same goes for #4.

Could recommend you read on hard rules that make crazy girls avoid you like small pox and some other articles touching on hard rules too...can't recall them off the top of my head.

Also read on how to avoid FRA's(False Rape Accusations)

With those I think u'll be more on the safe side.

~Chad Tyrone

 

[Calibration]

Cut your loss and move on bro.She's basically in auto -rejection mode.Yeah I understand u still think u got it with her and try to save the interaction but consider it a done deal.

Of course bro. I'm not even attracted to her anymore after lying. (I'm just trying hard not to fall into Redpill mindset). If she had ghosted, that's a different story but straight up lying about everything is scary.

With touching if u r doing it right I won't worry much.U don't wanna seem reluctant when touching her,don't look at ur hands when doing too...treat touch as a normal thing.

The way I touched was ok I suppose but without pulling, there was no point of touching, which was a mistake and also touching when I'm not at the closing location was just stupid.

Of course u wanna steer clear off crazy chicks who may accuse you of stuff but again shouldn't bother u any if u r doing it right.Hardly had chicks complaining me touching them... actually they melt into it.Lol don't take dating advice from women.Honestly touch is essential in your interactions with women....brings about a ripple effect and shows u r a sexual guy and therefore u don't get boxed into the friend -zone.

I didn't realize she can be this crazy going 180 degrees although she did mention she had a lot of negative experiences in the past and I think I should've paid attention to it.

Ur compliment sounds cheesy or neg-y...anyway if u r going for compliments check out genuine compliments over at the site.

Ya, I realised when I said it and I made up for it with some genuine compliments about her skin and humility etc.

That being said don't stop touching women ...keep doing it and notice how far u can go with touch/escalation within reason of course...u'll never learn if u avoid it completely.

You also don't have to hold doors for chicks or pay bills to have chicks come home with you.Have had chicks calling me gentleman minutes into talking to them and I hardly did any of such she's telling you.All you need is to be the leader and invite her to yours.

With #1 you wanna set the right expectations from the go...let her know what u r all about and what she's getting herself into.Same goes for #4.

I don't do dinner dates but this was a mistake and perhaps that is what created conflicting frames.

Could recommend you read on hard rules that make crazy girls avoid you like small pox and some other articles touching on hard rules too...can't recall them off the top of my head.

Will check them out.

Also read on how to avoid FRA's(False Rape Accusations)

Honestly, this freaks me out. It makes me think that Confidence has nothing to with seduction. All your confidence goes to toilet if you're falsely accused.

With those I think u'll be more on the safe side.

~Chad Tyrone

 

[Chad Tyrone]

Of course bro. I'm not even attracted to her anymore after lying. (I'm just trying hard not to fall into Redpill mindset). If she had ghosted, that's a different story but straight up lying about everything is scary.

The way I touched was ok I suppose but without pulling, there was no point of touching, which was a mistake and also touching when I'm not at the closing location was just stupid.

I didn't realize she can be this crazy going 180 degrees although she did mention she had a lot of negative experiences in the past and I think I should've paid attention to it.

Ya, I realised when I said it and I made up for it with some genuine compliments about her skin and humility etc.

I don't do dinner dates but this was a mistake and perhaps that is what created conflicting frames.

Will check them out.

Honestly, this freaks me out. It makes me think that Confidence has nothing to with seduction. All your confidence goes to toilet if you're falsely accused.

Myself I wouldn't or never thought of Red Pill as bad.It actually opened my eyes a lot more.So I would recommend it more than anything but go into it with an open and introspective mind.Your eyes will be opened and u'll find cold hard truths .

You don't go all bitter or whiny after discovering such.You just accept it and work in creating your own reality around it.So don't go all bitter saying "fuck women I'd rather go my own way ' and don't remain in the dark and get fucked when u discover how the world does work.

Anyway,redpill is a touchy topic over here ...but if u move from denial to acceptance stage then trust me you are set for life.With game+red pill...you are a killer combo.What authors would I recommend go with Rollo...he got four books on the topic(does the game one count lol)

I think Rollo writes it clearly without all the negativity and stuff but many seem to discredit him about having game and being a fake.If u would like it ...he would be the first guy I would recommend in my book.

Talk of having frame and seeing shit tests a mile away.Anyway I would talk more about it if anyone is interested.

You should be touching women before pulling...u get them used to it... without it u may encounter resistance later since u've talked for more hours hardly touching her .

But at advanced levels u could do away with touch...where u got ur sexual vibe down and u just ooze sexiness...but u still wanna use it,though much less.So touch women often but avoid sexual touch in public unless u r isolated ...who said u don't touch women cause u yet aren't in the closing location?

Haha...you are worries about stuff .Keep a cool head.Never heard someone's confidence going from 100 to 0.Most seducers are confident.It takes a lot to approach women when others are crippled with AA...takes a lot to lead women in a society telling you to treat them as equals.Takes yet a lot way more to have things ur way and on ur terms and be powerful.


U need to go through an asshole phase to no longer care about trivial stuff...get a devil -may -care attitude down and women won't want to mess with you."no ,I ain't doing that on Calibration ,he just oozes danger but he's still warm"Happens when u move from jerk to genuine.

If u find yourself in shit remember u could easily outframe anyone or frame you way out of anything.Find it silly most people hardly take notes of frames in their interaction with people... woman or man.

~Chad Tyrone

 

[Skills]

Myself I wouldn't or never thought of Red Pill as bad.It actually opened my eyes a lot more.So I would recommend it more than anything but go into it with an open and introspective mind.Your eyes will be opened and u'll find cold hard truths .

You don't go all bitter or whiny after discovering such.You just accept it and work in creating your own reality around it.So don't go all bitter saying "fuck women I'd rather go my own way ' and don't remain in the dark and get fucked when u discover how the world does work.

Anyway,redpill is a touchy topic over here ...but if u move from denial to acceptance stage then trust me you are set for life.With game+red pill...you are a killer combo.What authors would I recommend go with Rollo...he got four books on the topic(does the game one count lol)

I think Rollo writes it clearly without all the negativity and stuff but many seem to discredit him about having game and being a fake.If u would like it ...he would be the first guy I would recommend in my book.

Talk of having frame and seeing shit tests a mile away.Anyway I would talk more about it if anyone is interested.

You should be touching women before pulling...u get them used to it... without it u may encounter resistance later since u've talked for more hours hardly touching her .

But at advanced levels u could do away with touch...where u got ur sexual vibe down and u just ooze sexiness...but u still wanna use it,though much less.So touch women often but avoid sexual touch in public unless u r isolated ...who said u don't touch women cause u yet aren't in the closing location?

Haha...you are worries about stuff .Keep a cool head.Never heard someone's confidence going from 100 to 0.Most seducers are confident.It takes a lot to approach women when others are crippled with AA...takes a lot to lead women in a society telling you to treat them as equals.Takes yet a lot way more to have things ur way and on ur terms and be powerful.


U need to go through an asshole phase to no longer care about trivial stuff...get a devil -may -care attitude down and women won't want to mess with you."no ,I ain't doing that on Calibration ,he just oozes danger but he's still warm"Happens when u move from jerk to genuine.

If u find yourself in shit remember u could easily outframe anyone or frame you way out of anything.Find it silly most people hardly take notes of frames in their interaction with people... woman or man.

~Chad Tyrone

rollo is a major kj that has not game in more than 20 years..... and is married.... only acceptable red piller bulldog mindset and troy francis ok...but for the most part better off not consuming any red pill content when it comes to seduction....

 

[Chad Tyrone]

rollo is a major kj that has not game in more than 20 years..... and is married.... only acceptable red piller bulldog mindset and troy francis ok...but for the most part better off not consuming any red pill content when it comes to seduction....

Yeah read them all myself to see who knows his shit.Rollo gives an indepth knowledge than the others but of course everyone questions his game lol...most people criticize him cause he doesn't walk his talk ...tho he says he would never marry given the chance.

Yeah Troy got game and red pill awareness and as u say better stay away from red pill...cold hard truth pills over there that most find hard to swallow.For the most part I was or rather am at the acceptance stage

~Chad Tyrone

 

[Calibration]

I've dabbled with Redpill in the past for almost a year or two. I've even read The Rationale Male from Rollo Tomassi.

For me it was not about whether its true or not. It probably is true to some extent but it was fucking with my mind a lot. From evolutionary biology point of view, it's very logical. It gave me a sense of why women do what they do.
For ex: they want the best seed to progress her bloodline and dual mating strategy for having a provider to take care of alpha's kid etc. It was quite intense and it all gave me some different perspective of dating.

I used to hate women and they could sense it in my energy. It was very incongruent with my personality. I find it hard to hate anyone. I may feel bad and even repulsive but hating was quite strong but it did help me in some ways.

I became tougher and stronger mentally, although results were not the focus. I was the complete opposite of how I was before I found Redpill. I've always loved flirting with women. Even as a kid, I had more female friends at school than male friends. So, this was completely different.

I think GC is the sweet spot between Redpill and Nice guy. Problem is, GC's process is hard although it's sustainable long term. I used to switch between Redpill and GC. When I left Redpill, I told my wing that I'm taking a long and hard journey but I think it's good in the long-term. Sometimes, things like these trigger me unfortunately.

 

[POB]

rollo is a major kj that has not game in more than 20 years..... and is married.... only acceptable red piller bulldog mindset and troy francis ok...but for the most part better off not consuming any red pill content when it comes to seduction....

Sadly Rollo today is just a shalow version of what he once was.
Although he helped created some great masculine viewpoints back in the day (which have become an integral part of the more or less usefull portion of the red pill) his current advice for men is just ridiculous. Today the guy is a married dude stuck in the 00s who clearly doesn't get modern female open sexuality.

To the OP, you need to start getting good at pacing and fractionation.

She asked me, if I have dated any french girl before, I said yes and told her the city name and she asked me the girl's name. I don't know why I blurted out the name, she immediately checked on my Instagram, although I told her not to do that.

The girl that I had dated years ago has now become super-fat and she asked, "is she the one?". I said no and then I tried my best to cover up saying, no she's not the one. I think I removed her from followers etc and there was some major snafu.

Usually you should not give a fuck about IG, but if she asks to check it you just go ahead and don't hold back about anything she asks.
Don't lie. You could've said "yes, she is the one...but we are just distant friends now, you don't need to be jealous "

Me: Night is too young, it's just 8:00 PM, lets go back to mine and chill

You should never caveman girls like that (unless she is super compliant and ready to go, which was not the case).
Look in the forum for posts about plausible deniability (I think there's one with over 30 comments on it, gonna give you tons of ideas about how to preemptively address ASD before the isolation pull).

She: No, not today I need to go back to my place. I need to rest up since I'm going for a long run tomorrow

Me: Ya, but you aren't working tomorrow. So, you'll still have a lot of time to sleep

She: Ya but this is too early (she meant too early for sex)

Me: (I purposely twisted it) Ya, that's what I'm saying, it's too early let's go back to my place and chill

She: Omg! No, I meant too early to sleep with you

Me: (I purposely twisted it again) No, let's not sleep. We'll watch something

She: No, I mean too early to come to your place. Omg! I didn't know that you're so much in a hurry

Not only did she make it clear that your "humor" was not working, but you were super obnoxious and kept pushing despite her blatantly giving you four objections.

I would've definitely backed off after the second objetion and called it a night, then tried another time.
How old is she?

 

[Calibration]

Sadly Rollo today is just a shalow version of what he once was.
Although he helped created some great masculine viewpoints back in the day (which have become an integral part of the more or less usefull portion of the red pill) his current advice for men is just ridiculous. Today the guy is a married dude stuck in the 00s who clearly doesn't get modern female open sexuality.

To the OP, you need to start getting good at pacing and fractionation.

Usually you should not give a fuck about IG, but if she asks to check it you just go ahead and don't hold back about anything she asks.
Don't lie. You could've said "yes, she is the one...but we are just distant friends now, you don't need to be jealous "

You should never caveman girls like that (unless she is super compliant and ready to go, which was not the case).
Look in the forum for posts about plausible deniability (I think there's one with over 30 comments on it, gonna give you tons of ideas about how to preemptively address ASD before the isolation pull).

Not only did she make it clear that your "humor" was not working, but you were super obnoxious and kept pushing despite her blatantly giving you four objections.

You're right, she didn't get my humor. I was saying all of this in a light-hearted voice tone but she was just reading into what I was saying literally than the light-heartedness behind that. I even laughed after this, saying haha your reaction is extreme and then changed the subject.

About pacing and leading: this chic was a bit strange in her body language and facial expressions. She was very uptight and stiff.

She didn't smile throughout the date. She had an unusual smirk always, like trying to hide her smile. I thought she's either just shy or she doesn't like her smile (some chics don't like their smile and try to hide it in an unusual smirk). I found that cute at the time and even told her this. She had this strange straight face like on some drugs. This made it hard for me to read exactly where she is at.

I would've definitely backed off after the second objetion and called it a night, then tried another time.
How old is she?

Ya, I feel very bad myself, for losing my self-respect. If I remove the humor element from it, I came across like begging or selling too hard or even obnoxious like you said