FR Coffee Date, May Not Have Been Persistent Enough [Troubleshoot]

[Grand Pooba]

I just got back from a coffee date that was going well and seemed to be pretty friendly, but I was not able to move her to another place or get her back to her place. I met resistance and I suspect that I did not handle it properly. In reflecting on this I sense a bunch of mistakes. Any suggestions or feedback would be extremely helpful. Do you think this might be a lost cause, or is there still potential if we were to hang out again?

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Met a friend of a friend (I'll call her "Amy") for a coffee date at 8:15pm. She is half latina and half irish, cute and fashionable; additionally, she seems very smart and career focused, a strong woman to say the least.

We met for coffee at 8:15pm. I ran slightly behind schedule by 5 min so was not able to meet her right at the door, just inside where she was sitting down. I walk in and see her.

ME: "Hey there Amy, what sorts of trouble did you cause today?" <I give her a pretty tight hug>
HER: "Uhh no trouble at all!"
ME: "Haha, well Saturday night was pretty wild for us" <We had met on Saturday night at a club, through a friend>.

We sit down on a couch after I ordered (she had already ordered and paid for hers before I got there), her sitting on the far left and me in the middle. Her legs are crossed, as are mine, and she's leaning back on it and playing with her hair as we are talking mainly about our work, a class she just came from, and some of what I do (which she asks immediately). She played with her hair for a large portion of the night. I periodically touch her elbow or shoulder with the back of my palm as I converse with her, there was no reciprocation from her part.

The coffee shop is closing at 9, so at 8:45 we move to another place to get cocktails. Most of the time she wants to be the one leading the charge: I lead her by the small of her back, but the very first door to open she gets to first and opens it herself. This doesn't happen when we get to the cocktail lounge, but she is not really responding to my leading. Her posture and movement is pretty stiff when walking.

We sit down at the bar together and order drinks.

I learned that she is kind of a party girl: she loves travelling and adventure, loves to go out late nights and stay out, is extremely into fitness and dance-fitness fusion. She's from northern California and has been living here all her life, and wants to move to New York and/or Europe. Her favorite places to visit have been Ibiza and Rome. She doesn't want to travel to South America or East Asia in the least, presumably she doesn't like the cultures. She wants to do marketing. She believes in women's empowerment in the workplace and attends meetings where they teach these skills to women. She likes very, very busy and active cities, and feels as though the area she is in is quite lonely and limiting for the freedom and independence she desires. Her roommate also happened to be out of the area that night.

The entirety of the night she was playing with her hair and matching my body language. When I went from leaning on the bar (like her) to standing upright in the seat and placing my arm behind the chair, she adjusts herself in the same way a minute later. For most of the time she was leaning up against the bar and facing the front with her head turned to me. I was sitting to her left, and her left arm was down on the bar acting like kind of a barrier. Despite this, she did play with her hair the whole night, but also put it up into a ball halfway through the date, whereas it was flowing down before.

There were several moments of awkward pauses and times when I ran out of things to talk about, which was somewhat of a struggle. Significant moments:

1. There is a pause mid conversation...

ME: "You know, you're a very interesting girl..." <I look at her with a smile>
HER: "What? What do you mean?"
ME: "Well, you're really funny and charming, and cool. But I sense like there's something beneath the surface that you're not sharing."
HER: "I've only just met you!"
ME: "Haha, this is true, but sometimes you just get a sense."
HER: "It takes time to really get to know people."
<transition to talking about how people can read others very quickly in my own city>

2. Later on as it's getting late and there is a pause, I say:

ME: "Well, I'm having a really good time and I think the night is too young to end, don't you?"
HER: "I have to wake up for work sooo early."
ME: "What time do you get up for work?"
HER: "6:30 in the morning"
ME: "Oh...my...god...How do you do it? Are you a morning person?"
HER: "Haha, actually I am!"
ME: "No way, I could never do that regularly."
<In retrospect, I feel like this interaction could have been a time to be more persistent. I.e. "well, let's just go walk around over here for a little bit.">

3. She asks for the bill. The bill comes and she says:

HER: "So...let's split it?"
ME: "Hmm...yeah, sure, I guess?"
<we split it. Perhaps a moment to also be more persistent or considerate?>

4. We exit the lounge and are now walking in the direction of her car as well as in the direction of the train station where I would need to go:

HER: "See, it's so quiet out."
ME: "Yeah, it's kind of nice and peaceful though."
...
ME: "Where are you parked?"
HER: "I am by the coffee shop" <her body language...arms crossed, looking either down or to the side away from me, sometimes as I am talking to her>
ME: "I'll walk you over there."
HER: "No, that's okay, the train station is straight ahead and my car is off to the side."
ME: "The train station is straight ahead?"
HER: "Yeah, it's right there in front."
<was this a moment to be more persistent? Maybe say "eh, whatever, it's right there, I'll come back.">

There are some brief pauses in conversation. At the corner where we part ways:

HER: "Thanks for coffee, that was nice." <she said something like this, I don't remember the exact phrasing>
ME: "Yeah, definitely. We'll have to hang out again when you visit the east coast, I'll show you around Brooklyn." <She mentioned she is going in December>
HER: "Yeah, enjoy the rest of your time around here, it sounds like it will be lots of fun!"

We hugged when we parted ways, it was fairly tight and warm but only lasted two seconds. Her hands during the hug were around my lower back. The time was 10:00pm.

----

Thanks for reading, would love some feedback.

 

[ocantu1987]

Dang bro, it seems too me everything was going good, but she gave you an unexpected answer when you went for the "yes ladder". You did some deep diving too, did you relate too her at all? I read that you must relate no matter how big or small. You broke the touch barrier too, dang I think you did great actually. Maybe another member will point out a flaw.

edit: her touching her hair and also matching you body language is a big IOI. When two people (man and woman) mirror each other, there are in rapport.

 

[Smurf]

Hey, Ozz!

I'll start with the good stuff. That was some good deep diving on your part. Really got into her wants and dreams. Like above, good touch barrier breaking. On the other hand, I see that you could use some sexual tension in there. Did you do any chase frames, or sexual expressions? Judging by her attitude at the end of the date, you didn't do many. I feel that's the main component missing from this date, along with a little more leading and you would've been golden. Try for a second date and recover from it, but if not, it's a good learning experience for logistics and process.

There's this leading thing you can do when someone else says they want to go to a place and you agree. You can ask them: "is the place good?" And when they respond yes, you say, "c'mon, let's go to XYZ (place they just suggested)". It's not much but it lets you recover some of the responsibility of leading.

Hope this helps you out,

Jake.

 

[The Tool]

Not bad brother. You ar egetting there. I see you took my first date script to heart glad to see I am actually influencing people on here =)

Anyway. Some comments.

ME: "Hey there Amy, what sorts of trouble did you cause today?" <I give her a pretty tight hug>
HER: "Uhh no trouble at all!"
ME: "Haha, well Saturday night was pretty wild for us" <We had met on Saturday night at a club, through a friend>.

This was great. Im sure you said it slyly. But when she said "uhh no trouble at all" it would have been best to slyly say something along the lines of "mmhmm A likely story" with a wink and a smile. This would set up a bit of a sexual frame because you know she is "trouble"

There were several moments of awkward pauses and times when I ran out of things to talk about, which was somewhat of a struggle. Significant moments:

1. There is a pause mid conversation...

ME: "You know, you're a very interesting girl..." <I look at her with a smile>
HER: "What? What do you mean?"
ME: "Well, you're really funny and charming, and cool. But I sense like there's something beneath the surface that you're not sharing."
HER: "I've only just met you!"
ME: "Haha, this is true, but sometimes you just get a sense."
HER: "It takes time to really get to know people."
<transition to talking about how people can read others very quickly in my own city>

Your still following the process. IM SO PROUD!! alright now to comment.

try to get it more along the lines of "But I sense there is something more that your afraid to show. But you should be" you will most likely get a different answere than the one you got.

I like how you salvaged her little shit test. and how you transitioned. so so far your doin pretty well. You got a wit about you ozz. Keep it up.



Process still followed. Excellent. But she sidewinds you a bit.

2. Later on as it's getting late and there is a pause, I say:

ME: "Well, I'm having a really good time and I think the night is too young to end, don't you?"
HER: "I have to wake up for work sooo early."
ME: "What time do you get up for work?"
HER: "6:30 in the morning"
ME: "Oh...my...god...How do you do it? Are you a morning person?"
HER: "Haha, actually I am!"
ME: "No way, I could never do that regularly."
<In retrospect, I feel like this interaction could have been a time to be more persistent. I.e. "well, let's just go walk around over here for a little bit.">

You bombed when you agreed with her and accepted that she had to get up early. The night was almost insalvagable after this point.

What you could have done was say something along the lines of. "Same here. you and I are having a good time though. so lets have it continue" And let your natural suave take it from there.

Overall. Good job following the process. Not every date you go on are you going to bring the girl home.
The comments above I agree with. Just keep tweaking your interactions on the date and eventually with practice you will get it down to where you have a 90% success rate.

Cheers, The Tool

 

[Grand Pooba]

Dang bro, it seems too me everything was going good, but she gave you an unexpected answer when you went for the "yes ladder". You did some deep diving too, did you relate too her at all? I read that you must relate no matter how big or small. You broke the touch barrier too, dang I think you did great actually. Maybe another member will point out a flaw.

edit: her touching her hair and also matching you body language is a big IOI. When two people (man and woman) mirror each other, there are in rapport.

Hey Ocantu, thanks for your comments. Yes, I definitely got caught very off guard by her answer to the yes ladder. In retrospect, I should have been just a little more persistent and suggested something for "ten minutes" anyway. It definitely felt like we were in rapport, but she did not reciprocate touch really.

On the other hand, I see that you could use some sexual tension in there. Did you do any chase frames, or sexual expressions? Judging by her attitude at the end of the date, you didn't do many. I feel that's the main component missing from this date, along with a little more leading and you would've been golden. Try for a second date and recover from it, but if not, it's a good learning experience for logistics and process.

Jake, I agree with you 100%. I think maybe it was the pressure of being with this girl, who is quite attractive, but I definitely did not follow through well in setting up the right types of chase and sexual frames. Thank you for pointing it out, as it is something I will be focusing on developing from this point on.

I see you took my first date script to heart glad to see I am actually influencing people on here =)

Hey man, yes, I actually read your forum post twice just before going on this date! Haha, it's a nice method, and seems like a great place to start getting grounded. Thank you for doing that.

This was great. Im sure you said it slyly. But when she said "uhh no trouble at all" it would have been best to slyly say something along the lines of "mmhmm A likely story" with a wink and a smile. This would set up a bit of a sexual frame because you know she is "trouble"

Do you have tips for developing these types of quick thinking witty responses? It seems that the correct response maintains a sense of reasonable doubt and mystery regardless of what she says?

try to get it more along the lines of "But I sense there is something more that your afraid to show. But you should be" you will most likely get a different answere than the one you got.

Noted, I will keep this in mind. Nice line, by the way, I like it.

You bombed when you agreed with her and accepted that she had to get up early. The night was almost insalvagable after this point.

What you could have done was say something along the lines of. "Same here. you and I are having a good time though. so lets have it continue" And let your natural suave take it from there.

You are absolutely correct, I bombed in my response and in retrospect I think any response that would have been a little more persistent on my part and gotten past her push back would have led to a continuation. Maybe "But I've heard of this great place down the street, lets check it out for a few minutes" or something more vague along the lines of what you've written.



Thank you all for your feedback, it's extremely helpful.

 

[The Tool]

Do you have tips for developing these types of quick thinking witty responses? It seems that the correct response maintains a sense of reasonable doubt and mystery regardless of what she says?

Essentially what it comes down to is not agreeing or going along with what she says.

Like

Her. "I never cause trouble" said in a serious tone.

You. Slyly "mmhmm If you say so" said slyly with a hint of sarcasm

Her "What! I dont cause trouble!" You "mmhmm a likly story"

The quick, witty responses will come naturally with time. I dont even have to think about it any more