OR Confused

[TheWiseFool]

Hello,

I honestly don't know what to make of this girl. I am going to write about what I've done this far and my critique of what I've done this far. I'd like to ask anyone who wants to help, if they can critique me and provide other perspectives for me to make sense of this whole situation.

The situation is, I asked this girl out TWICE if she wanted to hangout watch a movie or a TV show that I happened to mention. I didn't shoot for a date because I wanted to see if she would be up for just coming over and chilling. The first time she says she is going home. The second time she says she is going to a party. The first time I was like, okay reasonable excuse, she is human and has things. The second time I am thinking, okay now she wants me to be a friend or she wants me to go out with her when she has had some to drink and can really let herself make enough mistakes where we end up together. I was thinking, Nope. *throw my hands up in the air* I'm out, peace. Bon voyage." Didn't come out that way in reality, but that's what happened in my head. Anyways... I don't see her for an entire week because classes are canceled Monday because of snow and Friday I have no reason to go to the tutoring center other than to see her and I already told myself that I am done. Good enough time for me to get any sort of hooks or feelings for her out of my system.

Today, I wake up in the morning, tell myself I am just not going to give this girl the time of day cos I am done and have better things to do. I go to the gym after a two week rest period, and then off to the tutoring center where I get to talking more with this new girl I met on Thursday, who I know is interested in me and I share the same sentiment back. I also made it a goal of mine to not move slow or mess around because I "got her", learning from my experiences with the girl of this post. The day is starting off right, right? So the girl I am talking to leaves at 12 along with a bunch of other people. A bunch of chairs open up and of all the places the girl of this post chooses, it is the somewhat across from me. She sits down I non-verbally communicate "Hey" with a smile and get back to my work, listening to music, not giving her the time of day. Next thing, out of my peripherals, this girl is LOOKING AT ME ALMOST EVERY SECOND! Her chair is angled towards me, she is trying to look busy on her phone, I start dancing to my music a bit so she takes her headphones out but doesn't listen to any music. It's clear she wants me to do something but in the moment I just didn't want to do anything with her anymore... I was just confused! Is it just that she wants my attention because she just wants someone to talk to when she is tutoring and doesn't actually want to hangout with me outside of the place or is it really that she wants me to talk to her because she is interested in me? The last case seems highly unlikely to me, but that is because I already have this mindset that she isn't interested in any way other than platonic means. Despite this hurt or longing look on her face I wasn't giving into it even if I felt bad. I'm predicting that if she cares enough, she is going to end up coming to me complain that she is sad that we aren't talking anymore and that she misses me and I either 1) tell her what's up: I prefer being a lone wolf and have little time or patience for friends; if I do decide to convert an acquaintance into a friend, the individual must be of exceptional caliber (I have one female friend who is my pretty much my twin. We are always in sync. That is the closest I have to any sort of female friend) or 2) my nice guy/white night persona kicks in by telling her "Awh I'm sorry I never meant to hurt you like that!" We kiss and hug it out and I dig myself deeper into the friend zone (past experience).

Before I knew about GC I did this all the time with girls. I would just go ice cold or aloof. They would the gap I left behind, clammer for my attention and I would either continue to ignore them or get back into the friend zone because I didn't have the balls to say, "I want to have sex with you" without saying "I want to have sex with you." I think the effect they feel is the same effect men feel when they realize a girl is in a state of auto-rejection. The classic "I know they are interested but I'm not sure if I'm interested. Now they aren't interested, and now I'm interested" situation. Now I am better in that I am not bitter, I just understand that my time is important and I don't waste it socializing with other people, man or woman, unless whatever they have to tell or share with me is exceptional or possesses ground to pique my interest. I'll exchange pleasantries and be on my merry way to wherever I have to be or whatever I want to do. The fault that I find with this mentality is that it was MY FAULT for moving so slow with her. For messing around, for being somewhat sexual but not sexual enough in that I was not directly indicating interest explicitly but implicitly; pretty much all the downfalls of men who move slow.

I didn't chase this girl, I can't confidently say I was persistent either because I forgot to persist whenever she would say I can't. In addition, there would be times when I let my impulsiveness get in the way and get into some competitive witty affair with her rather than working to deep dive her (by far my biggest annoyance with myself as well as my biggest lesson with her).

If I reengage this girl how do I go about doing this? By this I mean, do I get her out on a date. Do I talk to her for a bit and have share some good conversation before proposing the "hey I'm gonna head out in a bit, gonna watch *insert this movie*, wanna come with?" Or do I go back to actually getting her number, taking her out on a date, then back to my place and escalating from there?

I just feel exhausted with this girl now and am just going through the motions, or at least I am telling myself as such because this is my way of weening myself off of any sort of attraction for a girl. Today she looked pretty damn cute. She is a petite girl with a nice figure; dark hair that is always curly and wavy; and I remember her walking past me one day and I noticed through her jeggings that she has a really nice ass (jeggings op). That description enough sounds pretty damn great to me but my analysis of myself is that I moved slow with this girl because I was getting caught up in not trying to end up tangled up in her. I didn't expend the correct amount of effort because I was afraid that I may end up falling for her and that is something I don't want to do right now with any girl for that matter. Writing that right here indicates to me that my problem is that I should have been meeting MORE girls other than working on just one girl. Colt's article and all of the info I've read here plenty of times affirms the downfalls and disadvantages of working on one girl vs many girls.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the concept of working on more than two or three girls at one time, something I talked about with Pinot a couple of weeks ago.

Example, you collect 10 numbers between Monday and Thursday. Friday you shoot out texts to each of these 10 girls seeing who wants to meet up on Friday or Saturday, maybe spacing some here and there. Some girls you cancel on because you like some choices over other ones. What happens to the ones that are canceled on? Do you shoot a text at a later date and say, "Hey sorry I canceled on yuh. How about I make it up to you by *insert something to do together on* + *insert date and time*"?

I wrote this up really fast because I need to sleep since I wake up around 5 am tomorrow morning.

Apologies and thanks in advance,

 

[PinotNoir]

In my opinion, I think you shot yourself in the foot from the beginning. You did not ask her out.

I know you didn't chase her, and you have a lot of other options/dates, but when you think this much about a girl and write such a long response about her, then there's definitely too much thinking occurring for this one girl. In high school and college, I had this occur too often. The three options when first trying to isolate a woman:

1. You ask her out on a date, like pulling off a band-aid. She either says "yes" or "no," and you're mentally released from the spell.

2. You ask her out for a group thing (or as a friend one-on-one thing) because you're not sure yet (you want to "feel" her out). If she says yes, then you have a high chance of the friend zone. If she says no, then you're still under the mental spell: "If I had asked her out, would she have said 'yes' instead? Is she saying 'no' because she doesn't like me or because she's busy or because she doesn't like the event and wants to go on a one-on-one date with me instead?"

3. You don't ask her out.

When I was younger, if I didn't ask out a girl, it would eat away at me -- constant thinking and pondering. If this occurs, you have to push through it. For more advanced guys, they have a bigger abundance mentality built up, so it's possible to do #2 or #3 more easily. However, if you find yourself deep in thought about her, then always do #1. (Really, I'm of the opinion that you should always do #1.)

I made a close friend after college at my workplace. I talk about him probably too much in my posts haha. But, a big thing that he changed for me mentally:

Me: "I just don't know.... I don't know if she's my type, man. I think I'll invite her out for bowling instead. You down?"
Friend: "Stop being dumb. Dates are how you get to know someone. Dates are not a commitment. You go on a date, feel her out, and then decide if you want to keep going on more dates."
Me: "But, dude, I'm just not sure if I'm interested in her, and I'm not sure if she's interested in me, and I want to get to know her better."
Friend: "Again, stop being dumb. One-on-one dates are how you get to know someone."

I think you'd be best suited to change your mental model to this, but, this is my opinion and something that I have learned over time with experience.

In short, ask her out. Get her out of your head. With a true abundance mentality, you won't care if she says 'no' or not.

Simple.

Good luck!

 

[Franco]

TWF,

One of your issues here might be that you are going after girls that you see on a regular basis. I actually make it a point not to approach women who I know I will have to see regularly (meaning girls at the gym, or at the tanning salon, or anywhere else that you see the same people on a rather regular basis -- at least once a week). It makes it really difficult to completely cut contact when... well, you'll have contact no matter what!

If I reengage this girl how do I go about doing this? By this I mean, do I get her out on a date. Do I talk to her for a bit and have share some good conversation before proposing the "hey I'm gonna head out in a bit, gonna watch *insert this movie*, wanna come with?" Or do I go back to actually getting her number, taking her out on a date, then back to my place and escalating from there?

My above comment aside, you probably should just directly ask that girl out on a date (and not over to your place). It's a bit much to be asking her to come directly to your place when you two haven't gone out together. We always recommend meeting somewhere public first, and THEN moving it somewhere private, such as your place. If she declines again, then you just be cool about it and stop asking her out.

It sounds like pre-selection might have kicked in with the other girl that you talked to until noon (unless she didn't see you talking to that other girl; that wasn't very clear in your post). If it wasn't pre-selection, then it sounds like she was hoping you would still somehow move things forward with her -- your first invite was directly to your place, and she declined, but it doesn't mean there isn't attraction there. She was just trying to preserve her image and reputation. You just need to invite her out on a date.

Example, you collect 10 numbers between Monday and Thursday. Friday you shoot out texts to each of these 10 girls seeing who wants to meet up on Friday or Saturday, maybe spacing some here and there. Some girls you cancel on because you like some choices over other ones. What happens to the ones that are canceled on? Do you shoot a text at a later date and say, "Hey sorry I canceled on yuh. How about I make it up to you by *insert something to do together on* + *insert date and time*"?

No need to apologize here because you probably should have already apologized when you canceled on them originally. When you re-engage, you simply hit them up as if the first cancellation never happened:

(Canceling) You: Hey Amy, I'm sorry but something work-related came up that I need to take care of. Is it cool if we take a rain check for that coffee?
Amy: Aww! Ok, that's fine! Thanks for letting me know
You: Cool, I'll hit you up soon

(Next week)

You: Hey Amy, I got some free time this week for that coffee. What days are you free?

Eazy-peezy.

- Franco

 

[Verisimilitude]

I was waiting to hear some more responses first but my initial reaction was that you should give this girl one more try for a date. And Franco took the words right out of my mouth.

you probably should just directly ask that girl out on a date

I second this. Just get it out and then if she says yes, cool and keep going. If she says no, ok fine you have so many other girls numbers.

 

[TheWiseFool]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the advice guys.

You ask her out on a date, like pulling off a band-aid. She either says "yes" or "no," and you're mentally released from the spell.

So, I'll have to wait until Friday since I only see her Mondays and Fridays. In addition, spring break begins at the end of this school week. Also, I am assuming she may be bitter or ignoring me cos I just acknowledged her and didn't talk to her at all on Monday. Does that mean, I need to explain myself and why I haven't been talking to her?

If the last point of the above is irrelevant, then will this work, assuming she isn't going anywhere for spring break?

Me: Hey Alexcia, so what are your plans for Spring break?
Her: Just staying home, sleeping, and catching up on some tv shows.
Me: Okay cool. Do you mind me asking if you happen to live by *my city*? (should I word it as "Do you live near *my city*"?)
Her: Um... yes, why? *Feigning being weirded out*
Me: Well, I was wondering, since you live close by, we should meet up sometime during the break. Grab a meal or coffee... tea if you aren't big on coffee? (I am not sure about this next part. But from what I've read, it is better to have plausible deniability than none at all since girls need a reason or condition before doing something) I never get the chance to talk to you cos I have the tendency to get so caught up with my work, and you are usually tutoring people. What do you say? (Assuming my reasoning for getting caught up with work will explain my behavior, maybe...)
Her: *She is probably going to give me some reason she can't like the last two times (maybe she doesn't cos she's realized that I've failed to persist past the initial decline)*

After my initial effort, I don't know what to do just cos I am getting persisting and chasing confused. I don't know if giving reasons as to why she should is chasing or persisting.... is it how you say it or is there something I am suppose to do? I don't know if I'm suppose to hunt someone through their schedule to get a date.

If I am suppose to reason, then I guess I would say something like:

Me: Okay, well, if you are busy, then when are you free? I mean, *sarcastic tone* I'm sure you have guys waiting at your beck and call, but you can't be busy everyday of spring break *skeptical/comical grin*. (Really not sure about that last one...)
Her: *Laughing or offended but doesn't answer*
Me: I promise you won't regret it. I don't bite. I'm harmless *grin*
Her: Okay, fine *pretending to seem like she doesn't want to, but on the inside she is bouncing off the walls*

and if she continues to decline, I guess I would just say this:

Me: Alright, well, how about I give you my number and you can text me if something came up and you are free to meet up?
Her: *Takes my number to leave her alone*

and if she says no, then okay cool. I already plan on asking the other girl from Thursday if she'd like to go out on a date with me over break. For that girl, I just need to not screw up and persist if she tries to test how persistent I am...

I made a close friend after college at my workplace. I talk about him probably too much in my posts haha. But, a big thing that he changed for me mentally:

Me: "I just don't know.... I don't know if she's my type, man. I think I'll invite her out for bowling instead. You down?"
Friend: "Stop being dumb. Dates are how you get to know someone. Dates are not a commitment. You go on a date, feel her out, and then decide if you want to keep going on more dates."
Me: "But, dude, I'm just not sure if I'm interested in her, and I'm not sure if she's interested in me, and I want to get to know her better."
Friend: "Again, stop being dumb. One-on-one dates are how you get to know someone."

Still awesome man! I hope to be as beneficial to the guy I am helping now with learning basic social skills as your friend from college has helped you with learning seduction skills! This reminded me of a quote from Van Wilder:

Van Wilder: It's a date.
Gwen: It's an interview, not a date.
Van Wilder: Gwen, first dates are interviews.

I just want to pair that above quote with what Franco said:

your first invite was directly to your place, and she declined, but it doesn't mean there isn't attraction there. She was just trying to preserve her image and reputation. You just need to invite her out on a date.

Yah, this is my bad. I've been avoiding asking her out on a date because of the fear of letting her, or any girl for that matter, down because I always feel like girls (and people in general) expect a lot out of me. The whole, "The car looks amazing, but how does it handle or what's it like when I take it for a test drive?" When she realizes that expectations and reality don't match up, that the guy who dresses nice, is pretty cute (and no... I am not quoting my mom lol!) and is the strong silent type is just some guy who doesn't want people to know that there is nothing special about him at all (I cut out a great social life and all the extra time sinks in my life in order to focus on school and living a healthy lifestyle). BUT, I do understand that I need to actually stop being a hypocrite and follow "it really doesn't matter in the end. Who cares?"

One of your issues here might be that you are going after girls that you see on a regular basis. I actually make it a point not to approach women who I know I will have to see regularly (meaning girls at the gym, or at the tanning salon, or anywhere else that you see the same people on a rather regular basis -- at least once a week). It makes it really difficult to completely cut contact when... well, you'll have contact no matter what!

Yea, I know... my internal dialogue has been "this would be easier if you just went out and met with people you will probably never see again...." It's a mental block I am still trying to get over, and being in a place where I can kill two birds with one stone doesn't help much.

It sounds like pre-selection might have kicked in with the other girl that you talked to until noon (unless she didn't see you talking to that other girl; that wasn't very clear in your post). If it wasn't pre-selection, then it sounds like she was hoping you would still somehow move things forward with her

Pre-selection was not involved so yes she was hoping I would move things forward. I just felt defeated with her cos of Friday so I had defeatist thoughts running through my head like, "She just wants you to talk to her to kill time until she has to leave..."

All in all, thanks guys. Hopefully the newer girl says yes tomorrow so Friday won't be bad if I get rejected.

 

[Marty]

One of your issues here might be that you are going after girls that you see on a regular basis. I actually make it a point not to approach women who I know I will have to see regularly (meaning girls at the gym, or at the tanning salon, or anywhere else that you see the same people on a rather regular basis -- at least once a week). It makes it really difficult to completely cut contact when... well, you'll have contact no matter what!

I know no one asked my opinion, but for what it's worth, I'd very strongly second what Franco wrote here.

What you're doing at the moment must be painful, WiseFool... every time you get rejected, you have the failure reinforced in your mind whenever you see the girl afterward. That doesn't do your confidence any good at all. And as Pinot mentioned, it makes you risk-averse to take action, which in itself is an unattractive way to present yourself to a girl.

One thing I noticed after I'd done about 50 to 75 good solid approaches of totally unknown women, let's say 3½ to 5 months into the process, is that all of a sudden new women who came into contact with me on a regular basis (e.g. new girls at the office) started behaving totally differently toward me. Hell, even some existing women started changing their behavior. ("Good solid approaches" means you open confidently, go direct as soon as possible, ask the girl out on a date and persist in your effort to get her phone number.)

I'd highly recommend it. It does wonders for how women perceive you. You don't actually need to do anything as such—you just develop a certain je ne sais quoi. Colt expands on this in his recent article: look for the bullet-points beginning with "Approach ALL of the Time" and read about the "very profound change in yourself" that he discusses.

-Marty

 

[TheWiseFool]

So, the girl on Thursday never came in around the time she was there last Thursday. So I am pretty bummed about that. However, I finally walked up to the girl in my calculus class and I'm heading over to her place sometime around 4 (I told her I would get back to her because I still want to see if the new girl may be in the tutoring center by chance today. And hopefully the girl I fumbled with is there too; I still want to try with her and really push so that I can walk away with little to no doubts left in the event she says no). Pretty nervous but hopefully everything turns out alright. I know she REALLY likes me since she is more forward than most girls, I've just never pushed forward cos of nerves... Hopefully a fruitful field report comes out of this later tonight.

Does anyone know what I am suppose to do after getting into good conversation? Getting to know people is the easy part for me, it's touch and talking about sex that I have no experience with since I literally have no expeience with such things except for the times that I've gotten lucky with a few makeouts when girls would do all the work for me and I was clueless as to what they wanted?

Marty,

I did check out the post by Colt. I did read it and understood that what he is describing are the rewards of a guy who actually puts in the work. I've just been dealing with nerves so much due to fear of failure. However, I watched Good Will Hunting for the first time and that movie really spoke to me and addressed many of the issues and fears I deal with. Such as when the girl tells Will that she knows he's scared but she scared too, but she is willing to try and see what happens. I know some of you guys don't believe in God but I thought that the movie came at the right time in my life, when I needed it. But we all have our opinions sooo.... d(^__^d)

Thanks guys seriously...