Crushing on an alpha-female

[Hue]

Yo, coming upon something I know I might need some help on - a very high achieving, intelligent, possibly narcissistic girl. Pretty damn turned on by her - and doing my best to not allow oneitis.

EDIT: Just like to add the typical alpha-female is socially majestic and dominant as shit. I'm assuming the same advice should apply in a general to girls that have cream of the cut - something, as well as an overall dominant attitude. I just like this chick - the title may be a little of a stretch. Willing to admit I may be overestimating her value since this is the first I've actually sat down with her for a longer period of time.

The first day I saw her in class she caught my eye. Beautiful face, deep blue eyes, natural blonde hair. If her body was better I'd say she's a 9, but she's up there. Natural beauty.

I'd planned on working some sort of classroom game on her, but she hardly comes to class. She was tested for IQ and has "genius" level intelligence (looking at you, Richard (; ), and doesn't need to come to class. The first time we talked was moments before a test and she shit tested me with "you can't sit over with us!!" ( lol ) when they were studying.

So today right when we get out of an exam (turns out she's in a bigger lecture of mine, too), I see her discussing the test with a group of my classmates. I walked by and saw her look, so I mozzied on over back toward the group, and made a few jabs of conversation.

Then she turns to me. I ask her if she'll be joining the class today - that I sometimes hear her ask questions in the back but she's never there.

Her: Well, those.. those kids in there aren't gonna learn shit.
Her: I'm in my lab, mostly.
Me: A lab?
Her: Yea I'm doing research on [advanced neuroscience] and actually care about that stuff. Those kids that stay in that class aren't getting shit from lecture.
Me: Who you calling kids?
Her: Haha, well those students.
Me: So you're actually getting hands on shit? Stuff that you'll actually use that aligns with your passion.
Her: *starts tangently speaking about her lab, getting 100%'s in very high level classes, her photographic memory of visuals not needing to study* (like a said she's genius level. Richard if you see this and can relate, I'm envious of you)
Me: Gotcha. Well there's still class today *turns body towards door of classroom* you should come
Her: *starts parading towards door* Okay I'll go today.

we walk inside, her now leading

Her: Where do you usually sit?
Her: You want to come sit with me?
Me: Only because you asked me too.

we sit

Me: Ya I'm usually at the front, trying to just absorb as much info as possible.
Her: *starts talking about how she's on concerta and it helps her focus, and showing me that her hands are trembling, and they're sweating*
Me: Wow I really must be making you nervous.
Her: No, my body is just high energy, my mind is fine (truly a neuro nerd lol)

I ask her if she ever listens to hype up music when she's on the stuff - house music, rap, and she doesn't listen to any of that. She likes more complex music. I ask if she means symphonies (thinking back to the only modern one I know, done by Muse - used to be a huge fan boy back in the day), and what do you know, she's talking about Muse and Radiohead, two of my most favorite bands. "Hell fuckin yea."

We start to hit it off talking about Muse and the struggle now that they're weird. I let her describe her experiences with concerts more than I do - and we get interrupted by her friend who sits down next to her. She's a total nerd (really weird language) and these two start jabbering.

Throughout the rest of the time she writes messages to both of us on her laptop in word in large font. She also shows me pictures of dresses she's looking for, I point to one and go "not bad", and then she switches to showing me lingerie. I say "that's all you got?" and she scrolls, I find a really good one and say "that one". This is all done low energy and sprezzatura.

She's pretty weird and starts writing up a bunch of bio shit..

How she wants to farm high IQ, hot males with perfect bodies in their twenties, clone them, and keep them trapped in the basement to her friend. I look at her screen and tell her to take off the basement part and you're good (if I had to be enslaved, being a sex slave for gorgeous women wouldn't be the worst thing) lol. I did this to jokingly infer I'm exactly the male she's talking about, she seems to get it.

Then she starts writing all this high level biology shit about how she won't a kid unless its a surrogate because it destroys your body. I tell her it's not that bad to people's bodies (I was actually framing to talk about sex with that mother from my LR), and she explains the physiology of why it is bad. I tell her to get a C-section (the mother had a C-section) and she pulls up photos of scars. I point to the least gross one and tell her they're not that bad.


EDIT: forgot to add this paragraph below
I can't remember how it came up, but she starts typing to me about how her and her friend used to compete for ACT scores (she won) and after that did it again with the IQ tests. I asked what she got, and she writes it was a rude question. Couldn't hear her tone since she's a total weirdo and typing to me instead. She got a 140-160 range. Then she starts to google the bell curve to show me and I tell her "I've seen it" and she stops almost flustered like, and then turns to her friend. I take a moment, then write "that's pretty hot tho". But then the notes start back up and it gets pushed down. She doesn't see it till later in the lecture, and then asks me why I wrote that, speaking now. I said "oh I wrote that way earlier". She asks me if it was the lingerie and it wasn't. Then she thinks its part of the lecture and I laugh and say yea, totally, making it obvious its not.

Fight club is referenced in class. She thinks this would make a great experiment, but fucking ethics. I type on my word document "you just want to see brad pitt shirtless again", and she types back yes, but so and so is much better. I have her show me the guy and he's gorgeous. She says how he doesn't speak english and that helps. I go "oh I bet he's got an accent, I love me a sexy accent". She responds "yea he's French. But I've heard too much french, I want something new". She's getting all googly over the youtube video she has up - possibly aroused somewhat. I had been minorly escalating touch with hands and elbows the whole time, so this time I nudge her leg with my knee and go "stop it" like Hector showed in his feminity video.

She let's out a laugh and blushes. The vibe feels really solid.

She pulls up a screen of her texting some dude ( can't tell if its' boyfriend, brother, what, seems platonicish ), and shortly after she's asking when lectures over. I say I think it will run shorter since it's a review. I had already formulated to ask her to coffee at the end of class. She's a high sex drive girl and has been throwing me subtle windows, I have to hit the mark.

She starts saying she has to go. I ignore it. Thought about telling her to stay, but then she would have demanded a legitimate explanation. She starts packing her things. Right when she gets up, I turn my laptop to face her, nudge her leg again, and go, "what's your name again?".

She writes, "The Good One." I do nothing."That was a Blade Runner reference". I let out a breath-laugh. She writes her full name, then starts to stand up. I grab her shoulder and ask "Does Mrs.. no wait, does Ms. Photographic Memory remember my name?"

She writes, "it starts with an....[letter]". Guess 1 wrong, guess 2 wrong, I give her a hint, she makes a clever joke out of it. I laugh and give her a playful shove, and she leaves.


I just now looked up her FB and she's got all very well produced pictures of her (mostly really good selfies), and one of her doing what appears to be swimsuit modeling.


Hot, smart, high motivation, weird. Sounds good.


I know that the general rule of thumb with girls like this is that you have to out dominate them - like any woman. I think playing the low energy card, some instances of negging (without going too far), and laughing at most of her shit tests / passing them correctly - never being on the defensive about them is things I was reaching towards here. But I didn't dominate in any instance other than the very beginning and ending.

I'm sure that as guys get more experienced, they've run into girls like this they've probably messed it up with, and have succeeded with.

So here's my general questions:

1). What have you guys done with girls like this that you totally regret?

2). What have you guys done with girls like this you're so happy you did?

3). If she has a boyfriend (moral objections aside), how might you proceed?

 

[lostnumber]

Ohoho! This is an interesting scenario indeed. I can't say I've encountered a girl that fits this profile, but I'm a highly narcissistic genius myself, so I might be able to offer a few thoughts from a personal perspective. I fell asleep during my ACT and still managed a 32, and there was definitely a period of time in college when I was very proud of that.

Let me think on this a little bit and I'll try to post some thoughts when I have a chance

 

[Hue]

Mini Update:

I got curious and looked on instagram. You guessed it. She's a model.

Just want to add I see instagram models a little different now. Seems silly to write it out, but they're real people too lol. This girls passion and dreams are in science, but her profile is nothing but gorgeous pictures of her. Jen Selter has an entire life off camera too. It's difficult to separate the sexy illusion of professional photography of beautiful woman and the real woman.

Tomorrow I'm grabbing her before the test (better sleep now actually) telling her to wait for me after she finishes, and if she does, telling her I'd love to get coffee, and get to know more about her.

 

[lostnumber]

So I've given this some thought Hue and will post some musings in case they are helpful. I'll start by saying my experience in trying to date supergenius instagram models is sadly limited. However, I'm a narcisstic genius myself, and I have dated a lot of women, so I'm going to attempt to combine those two things to provide useful analysis

The first thing to put out there is the vast majority of rules still apply. She is still a woman after all, and you've had plenty of experience with that category of humanity. So I think we need to focus out analysis on the differentiating factor namely that she is much smarter than what you have typically encountered.

1) Don't put her on a pedestal

We know not to do this with good looking women, but the same thing applies to smart ones. I'm in the top 1% smarts wise, and when I was coming up through school I had people fawning over my intelligence constantly. It doesn't feel bad ever, but it isn't conducive to building attraction.

1B) Be wary of trying to relate to concepts or stories that you can't relate to.

For example, I sometimes tell a story about how I took an advanced math class in college as an absentee student. The first day of class the professor told us that attendance was not mandatory and that our grade would be based primarily on our test performance. I raised my hand and clarified that I was understanding him correctly, then thanked him, packed up my stuff, and left.

I went to class five more times that semester; for the four tests and the final exam. About two days before each major test I would take out my textbook and attempt to learn 4-5 chapters of fairly advanced mathematics from scratch. It was one of the most difficult things I've ever done, but in the end I got a B+ and the professor stood up after grading my final exam to shake my hand.

Most people's reaction when I tell that story is either something along the lines of "Wow, you are so smart, I could never do something like that" OR they'll try to relate to it with some vastly inferior story about how they got an A on their English quiz once. When I tell the story in person I add lots of humor and personal foibles to make it more relatable, so it doesn't come off like I'm bragging quite so much. But the reality is that most people CAN'T relate well to that story on a fundamental level, because it's simply not something most people can do. When people try to force a connection it comes off as try hard and almost like they are diminishing your accomplishment. Like, if I won the Olympics and you win your local track meet, and you try to relate those two things, it sort of comes off like you're putting winning the Olympics on the same level as your JV medal, which is an insult to my accomplishment. And when they put you on a pedestal... well, you are being put on a pedestel.

Now, I'm a guy, so the dynamics are different. This particular story is not one I tell because I want people to relate to it, it's more meant to highlight important and positive character traits I have and up my value. Girls putting me on a pedestal I am ok with, and girls doing a bad job of relating I can deal with, because I've still accomplished my objective. If I had to coach a non-genius on how to respond to my story though, I would recommend something like this:

"Wow, that's an awesome story. Has taking tests always been so easy for you?"

You aren't trying and failing to relate, and you arent fawning over me, but you ARE acknowleding my core point (I'm an amazing test taker) and using that to get me to open up. I would open very well to a response like that, and undoubtedly in the ensuing conversation you would find multiple points where you could relate to more authentically. Eventually you could give me your approval, which I'm probably craving at this point, but do so on YOUR terms. "It sounds like you really have a gift for learning. I think it's awesome that you've taken advantage of that. A lot of people with natural talent never apply themselves and it goes to waste, so cheers to you for leveraging your strengths."

That's going to be so much more powerful and meaningful than the snap reaction that I normally get. It feels like you actually KNOW me and respect my accomplishment. So, if she starts talking about her perfect ACT scores, don't give her the instant validation she is probably used to getting. And don't try to relate to it with your own example if you aren't a supergenius with a perfect ACT. Draw her out with more questions and make her work for your approval. (Make sure you give it to her eventually though, or you'll likely send her into rejection)

Hope some of that is useful food for thought at least. Let me know how things go!

 

[Hue]

lostnumber,

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I understand what you mean - it's a thin line between qualifying and pedestaling with girls like this. Actually, when I was originally told this, I felt an instinct to do exactly that - relate my not as good scores (but still pretty great) to hers. For some reason I stopped myself and resisted the temptation.

I wonder if me not pedestaling her IQ score played into this as well - and if she connected the dots that "That's pretty hot though" was directed to that.

It sounds like you really have a gift for learning. I think it's awesome that you've taken advantage of that. A lot of people with natural talent never apply themselves and it goes to waste, so cheers to you for leveraging your strengths."

I'll respond in accordance to this next week. During coffee with her.


Update:

I'm cramming before the test with this indian kid and she comes up to me and pops a squat - telling me a little bit about her night - she got drunkish at a concert and her mentor's Gf thought she was trying to bang the mentor because of some gift she got him - but that she wasn't. I give her a little playful shove and go "oooo [smart girl], better watch it". She gives me somewhat a serious face and says that she wasn't, then laughs saying her intentions with the gift - very logical girl.

While we're cramming she makes a funny joke and I banter with her laughing about it. Then she said something about the notes, and I laugh because.. idk it was just the way she said it. She looks up smiling and goes "what??" and I tell her, "it's just how you said it" and she looks back down at her notes smiling.

Her nerdy friend roles in and starts stealing her. When she does stand up to go in the test I lightly grab her arm a second, and tell her to wait for me after the test. She says she will if she can, I give her a blank-amused stare and say okay.

I actually finish before her and wait for her. She goes with her girls and talks about the test, I wait till she's done and she comes over to me.

We walk out, and she brings up the dialogue with the girls about how some kid asked a stupid question mid test, "Maybe you should go and retake your ACT and get above a 25 or so, then come back to college" she said to the group of girls. "Haha I got a 25 and I'm doing fine" a girl responds. I tell her what an asshole she is and she laughs.

We briefly talk about our research labs then I say,

Me: Hey, so I was thinking.. we should get coffee, or a drink sometime
Her: Okay - I'm gonna preface this with, I've been getting the same french dick for 4 years. He-
Me: Cool, you're not married
Her: Well, sure I'm cool with having friends.
Me: When are you free next week?
Her: *starts to name off days which I ignore until she arrives to one* Tuesday?
Me: Tuesday? Yea, they said we didn't have class or anything.
Her: We can do that
Me: It's a date

Then she tells me about how she's going to Miami FL this weekend, I ask for what and she just says work. I know this means modeling but I change the subject - possible she wants me to know she models but won't brag.

Then she brings up how she went to France and finds their accents annoying - how she thinks Americans just like accents because it's a novelty experience. I agree that anything novelty is what people like - we get conditioned to the same all the time. She brought up how frenchies there asked her if she's ever been with a french man and she tells them "yea hah every day".

I get her #. I say, you're a really involved person, and she agrees and shows me her schedule - packed. We get to a corner and she says she needs to put money in the meter, to come with her. I turn my body and tell her I need to go. She smiles ( and gives me aroused [not like sexy, awake] eyes) and says "No, you're coming with me!". I smirk and say I'll talk to you Tuesday and she says you have my number. We part ways.


I'm thinking she wants me to know about her preselection, and is throwing subtle tests and frames to see if I'm worthy of her cheating. The way she talked about her boyfriend felt purposeful. Or am I reading into it too much?

Any thoughts are much appreciated.

 

[lostnumber]

Sounds like you've played your cards perfectly so far! Can't say I have a lot of experience seducing someone in a commited relationship, but I think im your shoes I would ignore the other man dynamic to the extent I could and treat it like any other seduction. Maybe someone else with more practical experience can chime in.

One other piece of advice I'd give since you mentioned teasing/negging in an earlier post is to be very careful doing this about her intelligence or any of her academic achievements. Chase has an excellent article somewhere about how to tease girls, I'm on my phone so I can't track it down right now, but it talks about teasing girls collaboratively instead of combatively, and how to avoid sensitive subjects.

I'm my experience there are two times to be very cautious teasing someone about a subject:
1) They are very good at something
2) They are very bad at something

It's more nuanced then that of course. It really has more to do with what is important to someone than how good they are at it, and you'll need to use context and judgement to determine that. However, the things that are most LIKELY to be important to people often meet one of those two criteria.

Things that people are bad at for example, are often things they are insecure about and wish they were better at. If you teased me about being bad with women four years ago I would never have forgiven you. Even today when I'm in a much better place that is still a touchy topic

Similarly, things people are very good at TEND to be very important to their identity as a person. In this case this girl clearly values her intelligence and academic achievments very highly. Teasing or negging her on those particular topics has a high risk of creating negative emotions and damaging your rapport. As a highly intelligent guy myself, I know if someone tried to negatively tease me on that topic it would come off as an attack and I would take it personally.

So to summarize:
1) Don't try to relate if it's not something you can relate to
2) Don't put her on a pedestal
3) Don't tease her about intelligence
4) Make her work for your approval, then give it to her in a smooth way

She is used to people overvaluing her intelligence, overreacting to it, being jealous and trying to compete with it etc. If you do none of these things she won't know what to make of it, and that will drive her attraction through the roof.

 

[Big Daddy]

I have above average IQ (doesn't mean shit), but I've been savvy enough to leverage it to get into groups where you'll find a lot of geniuses, so I know quite few of them. I have also pulled girls with bf twice.

First of all, you have to unlink completely the idea that being intelligent is being successful or anything impressive. The vast majority of things "intelligent" people achieve is somewhat university-related, which is something I find extremely unimpressive, so this comes naturally for me. It will allow you to approach the subject neutrally. It's asking about something just because you're interested in it, but there's no underlying admiration for it (necessarily), kinda like you'd ask a friend in a recent car crash how does it feel to somersault multiple times inside a car.

I'm genuinely interested in how special people do things differently, so any time I have a chance to talk to anyone extremely smart, I just ask a bunch of questions because I'm genuinely interested, but not impressed. The last time I spent 2 hours talking to my friend and my questions were something like:

- how much do you read? do you read EVERY page? do you take notes while reading? (in my mind, I'm interested about the "thing"; but in her mind it looks like I'm interested about her)
- do you feel the most smart people are the ones who achieve more on your field? why do you think that is? (I've asked this multiple times and I always get a "no")

So most of the time, with that second question, they will disarm themselves and now we agree that it's not all that important (I always agree when they say that it not all that matters, give some personal examples, etc)...

• PS: If being smart is something that you value to the point where you HAVE to be smartest than the girl, you will lose. I realized that in another thread where a guy was asking if it was OK if the girl made more money than him, and if that was manly. Chase said that if he views money as dominance points and is something that he cares, he better be prepared to make a fuckton more money than the girl otherwise he'll always feel inferior and that will leak to other behavior of his.

... but what is important is willing to try new things bla bla bla something that you can eventually frame into "let's fuck" you know the drill. The whole thing is acknowledge what she tells you, qualify her, but remain unfazed about it and frame it like you want it. For example, let's say she throws out there she models. You could say you have this childhood friend that used to do lingerie modeling. People gave her some shit because she's this quiet girl, but you know this is BS. She'd tell you private how much she loved feeing liberated and feminine.

About pulling, I'd say just ignore it and be prepared for tests. The first girl I went to grab coffee with, she throws out there she has a bf, I remain unfazed from the outside (but I was really thinking wtf), eventually suggest beer at her place, we go there there's no tension, sex framing, touch, flirting (it was years ago and my skills were lacking) but eventually I just go for the kiss. She kisses me for a fraction of a second and pushes me back, saying she can't do it, she want her relationship to work etc and I'm like "well OK, I don't particularly care if we do it or not" and lay back on her bed. She's like "wait, what? you're not mad at me? every guy goes completely crazy when I reject them" then PROCEEDS TO LAY ON MY CHEST and I do a whole bunch of nothing for the two hours that followed before I left. I'm 100% confident that I could pull it off if I knew what I was doing because one year later I run into her, now single, and I have one of the most memorable nights of my life.

The second one kissed her bf in front of me lol I still went to her place but fell pray to girly token resistance of morality issues of sleeping with me, I really think she has a point and don't escalate further, but then on the following days I realize she wanted so bad to be engorged by my dick. At this point I already lost though.

So my take is to ignore completely the fact that she has a bf. She'll throw tests mentioning him multiple times, and you just acknowledge and change frames completely. "French men are such good lovers" "well, I prefer my woman more Latino (or something she's not quite). You can't really argue with those hips shaking. Do you like to dance?"