David Tian (Asian Rake) Thinks Game is Toxic

[Alchemist]

Since I have been getting back into practicing game again, I've been looking into the material I've saved over the years. One of them was an article on "Challenge Screening" by David Tian. His dating website has been deleted so I had to use an archived link to access it.

I discovered David Tian from a newsletter (11 March 2017) from Chase where he introduced him as "My longtime pal Dr. David Tian just did an interview with our own Varoon Rajah on his brand-new inner game masterclass."

I then listened to another great podcast from him about the importance of taking game seriously and improving it as a skill. And I was curious to see what he was up to these days.

So I check his Instagram and was surprised to see that he has "Former dating coach" in his bio. I sent him a message saying I really appreciated his content and that I got to know him through Chase. I then said if the reason he stopped teaching game openly was because of SJWs then it was a shame.

Here was his response:

I haven’t coached in pick up since 2016. I actually think it’s mostly toxic. It’s not because of SJWs. It’s because I really think PUA and the mindset Chase is promoting on his site is actually toxic.

Start with this video if you want my thoughts on this: https://www.davidtianphd.com/mindset/game-fcking-us/

Source:

Well I have to say I wasn't pleased to hear this. IMHO Chase and the whole GC community is the most reasonable (and anti-cultish) gaming community that currently exists.

This is even more true now that RSD pivoted into self-help and polarizing guys like Roosh V have been attempted to be silenced.

Practicing and teaching pickup has become a game of hot potato. Everyone is ready to throw everyone else (even old pals) under the bus to protect their image. Or maybe they all found their "calling" and started seeing the good side, see: Neil Strauss writing the book "The Truth".

 

[DarkKnight]

I have found Chase's articles in particular to be extremely nuanced and content rich. There is nothing toxic about it, only utter pragmatism. It has really helped me a lot in life and gave me great insights.

However about game in general: Yes, I can see how it can become toxic at one point. Most of us wanted to just have a quality girlfriend and the disney fantasy. Game was a method which would have been the means to get there. However when you open pandora's box there is almost no closing it. I find myself unable to settle down with one girl. I simply know too much. And I am not convinced that this is the best development. In the end sex and girls are about procreation, not about raising a notch count nobody really cares about.

 

[trashKENNUT]

He block me.

He did block me on his Facebook group. After one facebook post, advising a guy to play a little game on a girl after she play a game on him David Tian is pathetic? This is what I don't want Chase Amante to be. Chase is like my hero. That guy who went the other side and still remember who he was

Or even if he did. At least own up to it

Zac

 

[Chase]

That's amazing.

David used to be a good friend. We traveled around a bit in Asia together. Had a bit of a falling out when I tried to warn him off a girl I thought was bad news. Reconnected years later after things didn't work out with her.

At the time, he was super warm and friendly again. He visited me, I visited him.

Then we had a chat during one visit where he had sort of had a revelation and "grown up" and didn't want to be associated with PUA anymore. And suddenly was not warm and friendly to me anymore all over again.

I brushed that as maybe a fluke. Came through his town last year and messaged him to see if he was around and wanted drinks. He was in town, but was "super busy" and did not want to meet up after that.

So, that's that with him. He's gone through this transition where he flipped, and seduction, this thing he was involved in, became very bad and misguided and dirty, and anyone tied to that became a messenger of the bad, misguided, and dirty.

Pickup in general attracts extreme personalities. And you will actually see with a lot of guys who rise to guru status that at some point flip and view their former preoccupation as a bad thing.

You see this with many historical figures too. St. Augustine, etc. "Do not be like me in my younger years, for I was misguided. Be like me now."

Roosh is going through it right now. Our own Drexel Scott went through it. A lot of guys go through it.

Usually the guys that you see flip are the ones who were in the most extreme hedonistic/validation-focused edge of seduction.

When they flip out of it, it's because they realize extreme hedonism and validation-chasing is toxic.

Unfortunately, they then project that onto everyone else associated with game.

Well, life goes on. And it doesn't always go on in the same direction for all us. We each have our own paths to follow. This is how things are.

Chase

 

[Carousel]

Dunno about this guy but I have a very hard time taking these firebrand "traditionalists" with a hedonist background seriously until they actually marry (or similar) and reproduce. And live that life for a significant time.

Talk without action is cheap, and worse, is usually outright KJ.

 

[Carousel]

Or maybe they all found their "calling" and started seeing the good side, see: Neil Strauss writing the book "The Truth".

LOL. That guy recently reached the next stage of such flip-flopping.

World's most famous pickup artist Neil Strauss files for divorce

The author of best-selling seduction guide The Game filed for divorce from model wife Ingrid De La O in Los Angeles Superior Court on Thursday after five years of marriage.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Alchemist]

That's amazing.

David used to be a good friend. We traveled around a bit in Asia together. Had a bit of a falling out when I tried to warn him off a girl I thought was bad news. Reconnected years later after things didn't work out with her.

At the time, he was super warm and friendly again. He visited me, I visited him.

Then we had a chat during one visit where he had sort of had a revelation and "grown up" and didn't want to be associated with PUA anymore. And suddenly was not warm and friendly to me anymore all over again.

I brushed that as maybe a fluke. Came through his town last year and messaged him to see if he was around and wanted drinks. He was in town, but was "super busy" and did not want to meet up after that.

So, that's that with him. He's gone through this transition where he flipped, and seduction, this thing he was involved in, became very bad and misguided and dirty, and anyone tied to that became a messenger of the bad, misguided, and dirty.

Pickup in general attracts extreme personalities. And you will actually see with a lot of guys who rise to guru status that at some point flip and view their former preoccupation as a bad thing.

You see this with many historical figures too. St. Augustine, etc. "Do not be like me in my younger years, for I was misguided. Be like me now."

Roosh is going through it right now. Our own Drexel Scott went through it. A lot of guys go through it.

Usually the guys that you see flip are the ones who were in the most extreme hedonistic/validation-focused edge of seduction.

When they flip out of it, it's because they realize extreme hedonism and validation-chasing is toxic.

Unfortunately, they then project that onto everyone else associated with game.

Well, life goes on. And it doesn't always go on in the same direction for all us. We each have our own paths to follow. This is how things are.

Chase

Really interesting to hear your side of the story! As always, you approach it in a reasonable, understanding way

I believe that if someone were to put a gun to your head, you would find a way to calmly deescalate the situation and even empathize with the assailant for what he's done.

LOL. That guy recently reached the next stage of such flip-flopping.

World's most famous pickup artist Neil Strauss files for divorce

The author of best-selling seduction guide The Game filed for divorce from model wife Ingrid De La O in Los Angeles Superior Court on Thursday after five years of marriage.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Thanks for the laugh, and the article!

 

[Jesse]

Common story with David. Guy in his 20s when is hormones have taken off like a rocket ship is on board with game, because it aligns with his goals and interests... slinging his seed far and wide. When he hits his 40's, his testosterone has dropped off, and has a miraculous "revelation" that game is now suddenly and intrinsicly "toxic." And then he gets all moralistic, preachy, and "higher than thou" about it too. And just comes across as a cranky old fart.

Nah, he didn't become more enlightened or "matured". That's a cover for losing your sex drive and testosterone, and trying to make yourself feel good about it, or even feel superior, about becoming an old cranky guy that wants to throw cold water on the party of being young and virile.

 

[Teevster]

For a guy with a PHD he is not very reflected.

I may write a prolonged response to his crap. I got a bit provoked by the thoughts in his video.

The AsianRake is dead

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

If I hadn't seen this before, I would have been surprised...but yeah, not surprised.

PUA drama is some funny shit lol.

I've many times considered what it will be like to not write/makevideos/discuss pickup much because I will be too focused on work or something to discuss pickup beyond my analysis to close friends and me helping them with girls....

Sometimes it seems nice. To not think so much and to just do game (cuz you never stop gaming), but not write/speak about it. Many years in the future, but it seems nice.

However, to APOLOGIZE and then vilify where I came from...eh. Not good form.

But like Chase said, we all gotta walk our own walk.

Papi

 

[Chase]

Amusingly enough... while David is apparently too good for seduction, he is apparently not too good to post blog comment spam in the Girls Chase article comment section for backlinks to his video:

 

[Carousel]

This is from his linkedin profile
Apparently he is also not too good to be teaching what is basically seduction to men. He just calls it something else.

Should change his nick from RAKE to SNAKE.

Uniquely qualified specialist in human behavior, emotional and social intelligence, masculinity, relationships, researcher, author, speaker, and global educator, David Tian, Ph.D., has developed a series of solutions applicable across diverse cultures, contexts, societies, and age groups. His coaching curriculum ranges from relationships, social skills, masculinity, self-development, self-esteem, happiness, and fulfillment.

His presentations, whether keynotes, seminars, or workshops, leave clients with insights into their behavior, psychology, and keys to their empowerment. His training methodologies are the result of over a decade of coaching and education of tens of thousands of students from more than 87 countries.

Dr. Tian has also completed formal training in IFS Therapy (Internal Family Systems), Schema Therapy, CBT (Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy), ACT (Acceptance-Commitment Therapy), Gestalt Therapy, NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming), and Robbins-Madanes Coaching, as well as other therapeutic and coaching approaches.

The mission of Aura Transformation is to empower people around the world with the social skills, emotional intelligence, and dating and relationship strategies to find greater happiness and fulfillment in life. To equip people with a proven system for achieving success in their social lives, dating lives, and love lives, and to deliver a total solution for excellence in relationships and lifestyle.

 

[Skills]

This is weird is like everybody is jumping off the seducer bandwagon... lol! is bizarre when i started i was puas are weird and i was pro natural game, the longer i stay in the community it was the other way around, once i understood stuff....

now a days puas is like communism or something, everybody is either i hate puas, i was never really a pua etc...

Pickup artists (PUA)

, self-identified as dating coach, seduction community, or pickup community, is a movement of men whose goal is seduction and sexual success with women. The community exists through Internet newsletters and blogs, marketing (e.g. banner ads, seminars, one-on-one coaching), forums and groups, as well as over a hundred local clubs, known as "lairs".[1]
The rise of "seduction science", "game",[2] or "studied charisma" has been attributed to modern forms of dating and social norms between sexes which have developed from a perceived increase in the equality of women in western society and changes to traditional gender roles.[3] Commentators in the media have described "game" as sexist or misogynistic.[4] Some people have acknowledged that the techniques espoused do sometimes succeed in attracting women.[5]

^ is just weird were the community or former community is right now, i don't even understand the against arguments... Now everybody is all over the place, is either go back to self improvement you need money, looks, status..... or you need to get yourself out of the market mgtow, or tradcom, or the red pill guys which are for me the craziest of all, cause the message is all mixed in a blender is finding the worst nit pick of women tendencies... i was just watching a video, women with tattoos are damage goods, i mean is mental masturbation central, rollo tomassi after following him for a while is an autistic, long theoretical, mental masturbation hour definitions of nitpick ... or really good players full of madonna whore complex... is just crazy the state of the movements, i am totally turn off with everything that is going on.... i think when sedfast die the community totally rip... ( i know you guys are trying but the delay of almost a year may have put the final nail in the coffin, is over)

 

[Dragon913]

so if the mainstream veers into self improvement, we are the only school who teaches seduction the proper way...

we might go bit underground, but thats not bad. less competition!

show up with 'decent game' and we'll clean everything. since the other dudes have shit game.

 

[Dragon913]

the dude talks about having a good character. at the same time spamming comments with multiple accounts. what a low lvl snake fucka

 

[MarkA]

Everything you need to know about David Tan can be summed up by the following comment from his own website.

'The investment for a one-hour Phone or Video Coaching Session with Dr. David Tian is US$3,000'

This is a man who claims to have evolved beyond pick up gimmicks and presumably uses his PhD status to help everyone because he is a nice guy. In actuality he is doing pick up, just with a few name changes so he can be more mainstream popular and charge others extortionate amounts of money.

In my mind that's the lowest of the low.

 

[Teevster]

He is not the only one in the game with phd status.

 

[rationalwayward]

For a guy with a PHD he is not very reflected.

I may write a prolonged response to his crap. I got a bit provoked by the thoughts in his video.

The AsianRake is dead

PhD what? Haha
He has a PhD in complete bullshit field and his paper is only worth wiping ass with .
his PhD is on level of "underwater Greek basket weaving" Lmao

 

[rationalwayward]

This is from his linkedin profile
Apparently he is also not too good to be teaching what is basically seduction to men. He just calls it something else.

Should change his nick from RAKE to SNAKE.

Uniquely qualified specialist in human behavior, emotional and social intelligence, masculinity, relationships, researcher, author, speaker, and global educator, David Tian, Ph.D., has developed a series of solutions applicable across diverse cultures, contexts, societies, and age groups. His coaching curriculum ranges from relationships, social skills, masculinity, self-development, self-esteem, happiness, and fulfillment.

His presentations, whether keynotes, seminars, or workshops, leave clients with insights into their behavior, psychology, and keys to their empowerment. His training methodologies are the result of over a decade of coaching and education of tens of thousands of students from more than 87 countries.

Dr. Tian has also completed formal training in IFS Therapy (Internal Family Systems), Schema Therapy, CBT (Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy), ACT (Acceptance-Commitment Therapy), Gestalt Therapy, NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming), and Robbins-Madanes Coaching, as well as other therapeutic and coaching approaches.

The mission of Aura Transformation is to empower people around the world with the social skills, emotional intelligence, and dating and relationship strategies to find greater happiness and fulfillment in life. To equip people with a proven system for achieving success in their social lives, dating lives, and love lives, and to deliver a total solution for excellence in relationships and lifestyle.

Amount of double speak in his writing here is off the charts

 

[DarkKnight]

Apart from him spamming his links on Chase's website I actually see his tactics as ingenious. At this moment we have to consider this man as a salesman, NOT as a PUA. He is not occupied with principles or ideals except making some good bucks. In order to do this he has to appeal to a broader community hence avoid unsafe feeling words like pua and using more socially accepted terms. "Phd" Is just one of those.

I've known plenty of academics at one point and it struck me how they lived too much in their heads and not enough in the actual world. They seem to be unable to truly observe social occurences with their eyes, despite that less intelligent people could do so in the same situations. They tend to adapt real world facts to the intellectual paradigms by which they already live. This is a broad generalization but I have seen this unfold many times.

However again, academics is not relevant. This is MARKETING. Everything which can give him authenticity and authority helps especially when it goes with a socially accepted frame. Spamming this website gives him a bad rep though and is not what he should be going for.