Different take on Reactions vs Results from an advanced guy

[Spike]

I would like to discuss a different take on Chase's classic article, Reactions from Women or Results with Women

Reactions from Women, or Results with Women?

I intended for this to be a shorter post, since I’ve put up a few long ones in a row and I didn’t get much sleep last night as I’m still rocking a jet lag (so much for my claims to not be affected by that… it’s good though, I’m waking up early in the morning and cranking on stuff I want to work...

www.girlschase.com

Because this is something I've done that has vastly improved the results I am after.

When your new to PUA, getting good reactions may mean a lot to you. Reactions in terms of girls laughing at what you say, or girls flirting back with you maybe for the first time ever in your life. They mean the world to you as someone with very little if any sexual experience. You may become addicted to this feeling and forget about the results aspect. So you got a lot of girls laughing at your jokes but....you're still going home empty handed. It's somewhere at this point where you become fed up with these reactions because what does it matter if your still not getting laid. Which should be the goal. So naturally you start becoming numb to the reactions and focus on getting results. You start "playing to win". Taking interactions as far as you can take them. Sometimes getting close, sometimes getting the results. You jot down in your notes what things you did right and what counterproductive behaviors to eliminate (like realizing, "ok maybe I shouldn't keep dancing and grinding with this girl forever, and move her somewhere else to talk instead", "maybe I should have a better answer for when girls ask me this question" etc etc). So you went from reactions mattering to you, to now results being what matters. Which is the conclusion from the article.

However to me this is simple just the beginning of the intermediate stage.

What separates intermediates from advanced is the overall quality of girls you sleep with.

Yes the goal is to get laid. But can you really consider yourself advanced if the overall rating of the girls you sleep with is a 6.5? (lets say this year so far you slept with 4 girls. An 8, a 6, a 7, and a 5. That overall rating averages to a 6.5) so on average you are sleeping with a 6.5.

See where I'm getting at. In your sole focus on results/lays, you neglected the reactions aspect. Your getting lays (just like you got reactions when you first started....but your still averaging 6.5.

This is when you return to the reactions aspect (which will help with the results aspect. stay tuned).

Now to avoid confusion, by reactions, I simply mean:

Girls give you indicators of interests (Which include opening you or giving you the eyes that say shes interested in you) + how easy does she make it for you.

Here is the reactions I want you to pay attention to as you go out:

1) What is the quality of the girls that open you or give you IOIs and 2) how many of them

If the quality of girls that open you are:

- below the quality you would like to bang,
- no girls open you or give you Indicators of interests,
- some girls are of the quality you would like to bang

Then I am afraid your fundamentals need a LOT of work.

It is a limiting belief that hot girls do not open or throw IOIs at guys they like. That is simply an incorrect belief held by them because they've never experienced very blatantly IOIs they reserve for guys that trigger something in them upon first glance.

So until you reach the point where you have a lot of the kinds of girls you would like to bang, giving you good reactions (indicators of interest/opening you), you will have to keep tweaking your appearance. Because from there what happens is, if a LOT of them like you, then the odds of you being able to sleep with one of them (results) is almost guaranteed.

I will conclude this post with a quote from Chase's article and a quote that was left on my last report.

Chase wrote

Reactions do not equal results. I really want to drive this home. Just because she’s flirting with you doesn’t mean you’re going to get together with her

So according to Chase just because a girl gives you IOIs/opens you ("super green" to borrow the commentator's words)it doesn't mean you're going to get together. While it is true there is no such thing as 100% guarantees in life except death and taxes, it is pretty difficult to screw it up when these reactions happen. Especially if your at this stage in your seduction journey on your way from intermediate to advanced.

Which only reinforces this quote left on my report

I don't see any game or seduction here. Seems like she was super green from from start.

Silly to nitpick cause it was an easy lay

So yeah just because she opens you and makes it easy for you, while it doesn't guarantee she's going to go home with you, it's such ridiculous high odds that she will, that it doesn't look impressive when she in fact does go home with you. Like there's no shock factor. That's as close as a guarantee result as you're going to get.

 

[KJ Francis]

What separates intermediates from advanced is the overall quality of girls you sleep with.

I agree this separates the broad tiers of seducers, but the differentiating measure of skill is ability to seduce a woman who is at yellow to orange level of interest without any crutches. I do think is it skillful to employ all tools at one's disposal, like peacocking fashion, pre-established social proof, state boost from mood or momentum, etc. But if you're comparing the skill of two men, though girls' facial preferences are subjective, I think it has to be from a baseline of no snowball effect from initial fascination-based approach invitations, same neutral level of blank slate state, and a neutral outfit. Then you can compare verbal and nonverbal skill.

I don't think anyone would disagree it is preferable to improve your fundamentals to get better initial fascination from hotter girls, and to prioritize quality. Most would probably also define success as "sex with a hot girl" rather than "sex with a girl".

But the reactions vs. results distinction is more to do with falling for a girl's attention seeking behavior and allowing it to continue without progressing the compliance.

I think I get what you're saying... Make the goal to spike attraction in the hottest girls and focus on them rather than pursue the result of simply getting laid?

Your game strategy sounds like looksmaxxing and very fine screen filtering though, because you say you always rely on approach invitations or being opened?

It seems like win the game by avoiding having to play the game in the first place. I know Teevster uses flashy jackets to get opened, but I don't think he exclusively games sets that start with the girl chasing hard with sex already on the mind. Maybe I am missing the point. If it suits your goals, that's awesome. I suppose I cannot learn and emulate much from it though, because I want my game to work on a neutral girl, without a large target pool, and in an outfit that can traverse any sort of venue day or night while transcending or even boosting the social key aspect from friends, family, etc.

Can you break down your game in a way like post 8 here?

Is DHV after a shit-test the same as qualifing yourself? Discussion w/ Velasco

So @Velasco commented after I made an intervention on this topic. What follewed was an interesting, small discussion about what is qualifing yourself and how to do it properly. Since I didnt want to derail that thread, I decided to make this one instead. Here is the discussion: Well I have a...

www.skilledseducer.com

Even in post 10 in there he is using hard screening by asking her favorite sex positions. If she does not already openly love sex and is not down to talk about that, she does not pass his screen.

Another example of game breakdown outlining:

cookie cutter version of your verbal game

I saw a post like this on a different forum once and since i'm bored in lockdown... Post a simplified version of your verbal game that someone can go out tonight (ok, not tonight!) and test out For example, if you were 'Mystery', your reply might be: open: ''Hi, i've only got two minutes...

www.skilledseducer.com

I am not saying you absolutely need fancy verbals to get laid. If you do purely nonverbal game it can still be broken down in process steps.

See Skills post 32 and preceding

Mystery Method - Revisited

Really good interview with mystery and beckster (it seems mystery was always gaming, but was just not public), it seems he is coming out more publicly now... Only nitpick, For what i gather mystery is still more of a "relationship" make girl fall in love and be my gf frame (the 7 hour rule...

www.skilledseducer.com

So if you have a large enough target pool, you can screen to only the hot girls who are already open minded. But again, it becomes "how to max your fundamentals and play passive game to let the ball roll" vs. "how to take action to seduce her".

I know you get results and would love to learn from you if you can break down the game process. So far the advice seems to be "dress sexually". I am guessing step 2 is "move sexually". What's next, look at her sexually and touch her sexually? Then either say "let's get out of here" or try a different girl?

I may truly have much to learn from you, especially in loud, packed venues. So I am genuinely curious about your process steps and verbal details.

Post 84 from @Teevster seems to touch on some related theory

Attraction - Can it be Generated? - An Introduction to Compliance-Based Game

@Teevster Fear not. It's not like I get the palm in the face on every approach lol. Only occasionally on very hot young girls in night clubs when I say 'hi' or whatever. It's just their way of telling you 'no chance!!. Don't even try' lol. I go out with my young female cousin and her friends...

www.skilledseducer.com

This thread by @Warped Mindless is also in the realm of discussion and could be another good read for anyone interested in the general topic.

The Relationship Between Attraction, Seduction, and Game Explained!

Introduction In this article I’m going to shatter some common misconceptions by not only explaining what “Game,” “seduction” and “attraction” are but also how they relate to one another. But first, label each of the following statements as true or false: Attraction and seduction are the same...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Spike]

the differentiating measure of skill is ability to seduce a woman who is at yellow to orange level of interest without any crutches

Crutches is just a bad way of framing anything that gives you an advantage over the competition. Whatever you can do that helps you better get the results your after (sleeping with girls you personally view as hot as fuck) should be viewed positively. Because we are trying to get results afterall. I don’t see the point in purposely handicapping yourself and making it harder on yourself to do that, just because. For example, I know a very high skilled seducer that dislikes alcohol only because it makes his game worst. He performs better when he’s sober. To that guy alcohol is not something that helps him better get the results he wants. While others perform better on alcohol. For that guy to then not drink alcohol (thereby handicapping himself) he’s making it harder to achieve the results his after for no reason.

But if you're comparing the skill of two men, though girls' facial preferences are subjective, I think it has to be from a baseline of no snowball effect from initial fascination-based approach invitations, same neutral level of blank slate state, and a neutral outfit. Then you can compare verbal and nonverbal skill

That’s true my 9 may not be your 9, but you cannot deny that she is hot. While with 6s, at best you’re going to get a universal agreement that she’s cute at best. Mid or not hot at worst. So yeah the kinds of girls one gets is the litmus test I base my judgment on if the guy is advanced or intermediate.

I suppose I cannot learn and emulate much from it though, because I want my game to work on a neutral girl, without a large target pool, and in an outfit that can traverse any sort of venue day or night while transcending or even boosting the social key aspect from friends, family, etc.

I don’t know why you can you can’t learn or emulate from what I presented here. My goal is to get guys to have their game work on exactly their type. I don’t think your “type” is a neutral girl. But rather a hot girl. And I only wear one outfit (multiple shirts of that specific shirt and pants) that I wear day and night.

If you have a large enough target pool, you can screen to only the hot girls who are already open minded.

That’s the thing tho. I don’t have a large pool. Sniper. I just focus on the hot girls. Not the ones who are already open minded.

I may truly have much to learn from you, especially in loud, packed venues. So I am genuinely curious about your process steps and verbal details.

I don’t go to loud venues. Just regular bars. However I go when it’s either about to close or has already closed and girls are getting food. So there’s not much talking involved for me to break it down into large details. Why the focus on my game is so much on the front end aspect of things. Even when I don’t close the girl on the first night. My number close will not involve a lot of talking. I just text and meet them for a day2. See my first report.

 

[theReason]

Let me get this sorted out—

If the quality of girls that open you are:

- some girls are of the quality you would like to bang

You mean that if I EVER get opened by girls that are below-bangable-quality, my fundamentals need serious work?

Or you mean “A room only counts if there are hot girls in it. If no hot girls, and all ugly, it’s not you, it’s the room.”

I’m already resolved to significantly improve my fundamentals, but if “low mate-value girls don’t instinctively run away from you” is a marker that rubble-level re-invention is in order, I’ll do that.

 

[theReason]

Like I find ugly girls are quite bold sometimes. It doesn’t stop me from getting strong IOIs from the hottest girls in the room, but the hot girls are generally timid compared to the occasional ugly girl. Should I be offended if ugly women are not repelled from me?

Or can I expect that basically any level of fundamentals, will not stop a super-thirsty girl.

 

[StrayDog]

Like I find ugly girls are quite bold sometimes. It doesn’t stop me from getting strong IOIs from the hottest girls in the room, but the hot girls are generally timid compared to the occasional ugly girl. Should I be offended if ugly women are not repelled from me?

Or can I expect that basically any level of fundamentals, will not stop a super-thirsty girl.

repelled? no. intimidated? maybe

 

[Spike]

You mean that if I EVER get opened by girls that are below-bangable-quality, my fundamentals need serious work?

It’s not a good sign if you at frequently opened by girls below your standards. That means they think they have a shot with you. Which they shouldn’t. At a high fundamentals level, they just know they have zero shot with you so they wouldn’t even bother. Similar to when guys don’t open the hottest girls because they don’t see the point. They know at some level in their mind that she would reject them.

Like I find ugly girls are quite bold sometimes. It doesn’t stop me from getting strong IOIs from the hottest girls in the room, but the hot girls are generally timid compared to the occasional ugly girl

They aren’t timid. They just don’t think your hot enough

Should I be offended if ugly women are not repelled from me?

you should be greatful that they stop approaching you. A good sign you’re on your way.

 

[KJ Francis]

Crutches is just a bad way of framing anything that gives you an advantage over the competition

Sure you could frame them as bonus aspects. I mean if by "advanced" you mean "skilled". So those variables have to be equalized between the compared seducers.

I understand dressing to a sexy archetype in the right venue can elicit opens and invitations.

I am just saying if you remove aspects that filter girls, like subjective fashion or early and explicit sexual frames, what's the game plan?

 

[KJ Francis]

Sample scenario: girl waiting for an uber outside a restaurant, or walking past you from the bar. She hasn't opened you or shown an indicator of interest or approach invitation. Do you open?

 

[KJ Francis]

However I go when it’s either about to close or has already closed and girls are getting food

This is actually a genius screening tool and likely incredibly efficient. Though it is still a further filter.

The game seems optimized to find the right girl. I do like it.

 

[StrayDog]

i

Just regular bars.

I'm all about medium to small size bars. Underrated IMO

 

[Skills]

This is actually a genius screening tool and likely incredibly efficient. Though it is still a further filter.

The game seems optimized to find the right girl. I do like it.

Brah! That has been around for ever lol ... I think wrapped mindless had a whole post about this in mpua forum..

I did not like the nitpick on the lr... But the advice look good and get women 9 to open you is a waste of time... You can find that advice in any incel forum which is why people giving shit to Spike.. is not really practical..

I going to warn you guys the look maxing posts will give a quick death to seduction forums ask me how i know...

 

[Skills]

i
I'm all about medium to small size bars. Underrated IMO

Nope brah! Lol come on is adviced to death

 

[StrayDog]

I going to warn you guys the look maxing posts will give a quick death to seduction forums ask me how i know...

lay it on us skills

 

[Skills]

lay it on us skills

sure here

 

[topcat]

I going to warn you guys the look maxing posts will give a quick death to seduction forums ask me how i know...

There’s only one person you need to warn. I don’t know why you’re pussyfooting around the issue..

hint: it rhymes with velasco - the man who punches women that reject him and needs to get inebriated to must up the courage to approach. hence the peacocking clown costume in hopes he gets approached.. pure cope

ay you keep defending him @Skills

 

[StrayDog]

Nope brah! Lol come on is adviced to death

suppose you're right. my bad

 

[Skills]

ay you keep defending him @Skills

where did it did defend him??, i am objective brah, the lr was legit, there was not need to nitpick i don't care who wrote the lr, could have been anybody, here is by skills:

"I did not like the nitpick on the lr... But the advice look good and get women 9 to open you is a waste of time... You can find that advice in any incel forum which is why people giving shit to Spike.. is not really practical.."

 

[Skills]

suppose you're right. my bad

yes smaller clubs and bars/lounges usually better for guys that are intermediate to advance and large clubs to newer guys cause more volume:

 

[Spike]

Brah! That has been around for ever lol

Yep

the advice look good and get women 9 to open you is a waste of time... You can find that advice in any incel forum which is why people giving shit to Spike.. is not really practical..

you are right that does sound like something you can find in any incel forum. Good thing that is not what I am advising.

My advice is to simply pay attention to the quality of girls that give you indicators of interest and the quality of the girls that open you.

If you are still getting approached by drunk fat girls or not getting many indicators of interest from hot girls, or you approach hot girls but a lot of the times it feels like they can take it or leave it (compared to I need this guy) then you need to keep tweaking your appearance.

by tweaking your appearance I mean: your hairstyle, muscles, skincare, piercings, jewelry, tattoos, shirt style, size and fit of your pants, shoes. Keep tweaking until you begin to notice those things starting to happen.

I provided a practical video in my first report I shared on helping achieve that by focusing on archetypes.

Because after you begin to notice those signs, you either could get opened by the hot girls or you can open the hot girls and they will be very compliant to you (“super green”).

that is not “look good” (which first of all is too vague) and 9s to open you.