Do excessive positive emotions hurt you with women?

[metalbird]

This is a question with broader applications than seduction, but it's something that I've searched around the internet for and found virtually nobody talking about, so I want to ask you guys about it.

If you search google or youtube, you will find tons of articles, videos, self-help, etc, which discuss the benefits of emotional control. Things like:

• making rational decision under stress -- stock trading or poker for example
• improving quality of relationships by taking excessive emotion out of communication
• Reducing impulsiveness
• Avoiding unnecessary conflict with opponents

However, the conversation on emotional control is dominated by the question, "What are ways to deal with negative emotion?" Leading to a stock array of suggestions like CBT, count to 10, mediate, various grounding exercises, and mental tricks to inspire serotonin release. But what about excessive positive emotion?

According to the big five personality model, neuroticism is associated with threshold for negative emotion, while extraversion is associated with threshold for positive emotion. But in my experience, excessive positive emotion can be almost as harmful as excessive negative emotion -- something very few people seems to understand! Think "wolf of wallstreet" except real life -- not a pretty, scripted, humourous movie.

What does excessive positive emotion look like?

• Coming across as overeager/low value
• Weak frame (because of too much happiness mirroring and not enough tension/edge)
• Being naïve/trusting to quickly
• Smiling too much (which research shows turns girls off)
• Getting "lost in the moment" easily -- has pros and cons
• In some cases, addictive behavior, though this is more far common from neuroticism

When I was just starting out with seduction, I remember that I sometimes used to bite my tongue, hard, in my interactions with women, and mentally focus on the pain, in order to keep myself from smiling too much or getting to 'lost in the girls eyes'. To this day, 20%-50% of my approaches in a given week crash and burn because of excessive positive emotion. Examples:

• In the middle of a reasonably warm and sexual conversation, a topic I'm passionate about (usually entrepreneurship) comes up. One time, I started talking excitedly about it -- not at great length, but with animation -- instead of replying, the girl just held up a "thumbs up" with a condescending look on her face (oof)
• Not moving forward quickly enough because I'm actually enjoying the current stage of seduction so much, I don't feel any hurry. Meanwhile, the girl is fading. This can happen at every stage of the seduction process, from approach to LMR. Sometimes I'm enjoying making out with a girl so much, I don't even feel the urge to escalate further until she's already tired of it.
• Getting friendzoned straight out of approaches because of being too warm/not sexual enough when the conversation turns fun and friendly
• Similar to above, but getting slotted inexorably for bf candidate only
• Standing with a stupid grin while a girl goes from interested to cringing, me realizing it as soon as she ejects, and then me mentally smacking myself because I "did it again".

I think I'm finally understanding why people use depressants like alcohol and weed so much in mating (apart from conspicuous consumption and peacocking)!

On the positive side, I'm extremely resilient to negative emotion. Unless there is a war on American soil, I've already seen and been through worse than anything that I will ever live through again. This is probably why virtually nothing bothers me anymore. My own internal frustrations are about the only thing, but I always bounce back quickly with a hopeful "growth mindset". I can't help it; I've even tried to force myself to "give up" by mentally focusing on specific trends of negative feedback, but inevitably, by the next day at the latest, I'm smiling, laughing, and raring to try again -- which honestly makes me feel a little insane when I reflect on it.

Also, it's worth mentioning that I'm not on any kind of antidepressants or medication, which I imagine could cause this sort of thing. All I do is work out a lot. Anytime I get stressed, all it takes is a little weight lifting and it's gone.

Do you guys know of any techniques to deal with excessive positive emotion in the moment, or overall life strategies to reduce the effects of it overall?

- metalbird

 

[mist]

You being sad and down will not drop all the panties...maybe some caretaker types but Chase has an article on some of the limitations of that.

Principally

You are not a leader.

You need to manage how you deliver your attention, intensity, and most importantly the direction of the interaction.

You will be stuck if you don't become a leader.

Enjou the spoils, but you still have a chick to get into bed soldier. Your conversation may be riveting and engaging but you will still stall if you aren't shifting, pedaling, breaking JUST being a real manual driver for a minute

it'll become more automatic as you develop and let it sink in, but now

You are the leader.

So stop misdiagnosing and start finding the holes in your own leadership.

^ now if this is you absolutely be sad haha

But unlike Howard Dean you are meeting many women not running for president and I doubt your enjoyment and enthusiasm is repelling like a nice guy or overwhelming (unless it is???)

Anyway where are you failing as a leader leaderman?

Your diagnosing skills is one

 

[Chase]

@metalbird,

Strong positive emotions are a big plus -- but they must be channeled in a seductive direction.

I knew a guy who was constantly bursting with positive energy, grinning all the time, laughing constantly. He described it as "it's as if there's a little crack pipe in the back of my skull, constantly dripping crack into my brain!" But he was exceedingly playful with women, interested in them, flirtatious with them, joking around with them, touching on them, etc. He laid a lot of girls. Women found him very attractive.

The problem you have is not that your emotions are positive -- it is that they are focused in asexual directions:

• Running off on a tangent about entrepreneurship
• Lolling about enjoying a slow-moving courtship
• Being overly friendly/asexual and getting friend zoned
• Grinning in an unsexy way

There are ways to do boring topics in a sexy way. See Tom Cruise's monologue on road traffic at the start of Mission: Impossible 3:

If you're enjoying the courtship, you don't necessarily have to do everything yourself; you can also tease and seduce girls so much they start basically begging you to move things forward, or even suggesting things themselves. At that point it's just you saying, "Yeah, sure, we can do that," or responding to their signals.

You can be very positive while also being sexy -- and never, ever end up friend zoned.

You can smile very sexy:

Smile Warmly, Smile Sexy

Really quick quiz: what’s the most powerful tool of seduction in your arsenal? What’s the one thing you have that, when used properly, can turn an ice queen into a kitten and make even the strongest women become bubbly little girls? Is it your sense of style? Your suave demeanor? Perhaps your...

www.girlschase.com

Be careful about misdiagnosing problems. Strong positive energy is a big plus -- but, like any energy, if it isn't sexual, it's kind of useless for seduction.

You must cultivate your sexiness, and weave that into your positivity:

Sexiness: What It Is & How to Have It

Sexiness is the quality of being carnally desirable. Yet it seems so abstract: why are some people sexy while many aren’t? It all boils down to 3 items: intent, confidence, & appeal. Earlier this year in my article on insider vs. outsider seduction frames, reader JimmyS asked about the crux of...

www.girlschase.com

Chase

 

[metalbird]

Okay, those are good points. Perhaps I am also misdiagnosing -- or at least misunderstanding -- what the issue is. This same issue got me into trouble again just yesterday afternoon; let me give you a specific breakdown of it, and tell me what you guys think is going on here.

Example Background

I got off of work yesterday and went out to a local coffeeshop. I was a bit tired, but my mindset was, overall, fairly cool and confident. I noticed an attractive woman making eye contact with me, so I approached, sat down and spoke to her for 5-10 minutes. It went well; I skipped right over the usual, boring subjects, and quickly engaged her in a fun conversation about people in the room with a strong, sexual undertone (this is a pretty good accomplishment for me). I smoothly brought up the subject of FWB; she revealed that she wasn't looking for anything because she was moving soon and already had a FWB. Fair enough, I said goodbye, and went on my way. Overall, I felt great about the interaction.

From there, I went to the gym, where I saw a woman I had made an awkward, gaffish pass on a few days ago. She is close to a few different social circles of mine. Aware that I was likely to see this woman frequently, and realizing I had already killed any sexual chance I had with her, I decided to offer a quick apology/social olive branch to alleviate future awkwardness and solidify her as a solid "acquaintance". Her reply took me completely off-guard and triggered an "excessive happiness" event. These events are often brought about by unexpected surprises, and they feel a lot like amygdala hijacks, except they're full of positive feelings instead of negative. To that point, my memory of the interaction is actually a bit hazy, just like you would expect with an amygdala hijack:

But instead of being paralyzed and afraid, like that character, I become giddy and over-invest/chase.

Here's how the conversation went. I'm cringing to death as a type it, but I'll be fully honest as best I remember it:

Example Interaction

Me: Hey, ______, listen, I just wanted apologize for making things awkward the other day -- I was just in a bit of weird mindset that afternoon --

Her: _______, I was hoping I would run into you again. I've been going through a lot lately, in fact the past couple of years have been very hard, but I wanted to tell you -- I'd be happy to get coffee sometime.

At this point I looked into her eyes. She just seemed so vulnerable, like she was doing something very hard for her (in an emotionally sweet way) and -- admittedly, her eyes melt me -- I got the impression she really needed some reassurance/comfort.

Me: Awwww, can I give you a hug?

Her: Yes

Me: *I hug her* The past few years have been hard for everybody. Sure, we can get coffee at _____ (local place we both go), something simple and easy.

Her: [coffee place]?

Me: Or [coffee place], they're both close by. You have my instagram, right?

Her: Yes, or actually, do I?

Me: I don't remember *I pull out my phone* Actually, I don't think so, what's your insta?

Her: It's something weird.

Me: Something weird?

Her: It's my name

Me: *still trying to be reassuring* Your name's not weird... *I type in my best memory of how her name is spelled* Did I get close?

Her: Actually, you got pretty close. * she pulls up her instagram profile but doesn't hit follow. hands me back my phone*

Me: *oversharing like an idiot* Yeah, to be honest, the other afternoon, I was supposed to go on a date, but I got stood up, so I was just kinda in a weird mindset. I just wanted to make sure things wouldn't be awkward between us. *As I continue to make things awkward... somebody shoot me*

Her: *I don't remember what she said, some awkward version of goodbye*

Me: *basically stammering* I'll... talk -- you around.

It's like my brain tried to say "I'll talk to you later" and "I'll see you around" and just mushed the two together. Those were the last words spoken between us. "I'll talk you around".... I'm a 30 year old man for christ's sakes... Slept with 40 odd women in my life... and I still act like a dribbling 12 year old 50% of the time I talk to an attractive woman.

Notes on the Interaction

- Even though the verbal dialogue doesn't sound that bad, I felt like the body language and nonverbal communication was awful, with her being very uncomfortable and me being very nervous and awkward.
- I suspect her to offer to get coffee is the product of some third-party suggestion. I have no direct evidence, but I imagine what must have happened was something like this:

1. She was initially attracted to me after our first meeting
2. She was put off by my awkward, very uncalibrated, and forced attempt to ask her out for coffee on our second meeting
3. She went and talked to her friends or therapist about it who said something like, "Maybe he's a nice guy, give him a chance even though you're not sexually attracted to him" or some other woke-feminist type advice
4. She decided to agree to get coffee with me after all, because she's trying really hard to follow this woke-feminist ideology. She doesn't really want to, because she's not actually attracted to me, so she's awkward, uncomfortable, and forced in her interaction with me
5. Now, I've made it even more awkward by mentioning that I got stood up for a date, putting even more pressure on her to show and "play the part" in order to save my feelings

- As I said, my memory of the interaction is kind of hazy compared to say, my memory of the earlier interaction with the girl at the coffee shop, which I remember with crystal clarity.

Something is triggering my lizard brain and causing it to override my rational mind. But, nothing about the interaction felt bad, scary, or wrong, until immediately afterwards. Is this simply a fight or flight response in disguise? As soon as 'threat' (object of attraction in this case) is removed, I come back to my senses.

I'll try to add more details if I remember any that seem important.

Thanks again for your help on this guys. It's been a thorn in my side for too long, and I'm determined to get to the bottom of it.

 

[ulrich]

I don’t think that interaction went bad at all… yeah you acted a little awkward but that was only because you got nervous.

The girl wasn’t feeling it that much but that may not necessarily be 100% your fault.
Actually I bet she has something going on (dating another guy, ex is in contact, people are looking, who knows?)

There were some technical mistakes but I think the main point is that you got overeager because this still feels new to you and you are not yet in an abundance mentality.
If that is the case, time and experience will fix it for you.

 

[mist]

Strong positive emotions are a big plus -- but they must be channeled in a seductive direction.

Lock in.

You have a tremendous benefit with your brain chems to frame them "positively" (sort of because you still use them as a limitation) which is great.

For a long time I've known and discussed (not here) that adrenaline rushes from a roller coaster, cold shower, or meeting a chick cold are only distinguished by how you frame it...your sympathetic system dumps chems, monkey brain simply gets the signal makes a decision, your conscious mind frames it and or with enough repetition gets your subconscious to change how it looks at it a bit.

TL;DR - Arousal is arousal and excitement and anxiety are two sides of the same coin. Chase's friend could have been one of the numerous other anxious men and claimed his brain was "Hell on earth". The brain chems are the same

Now...why the neuroscience

I'm a 30 year old man for christ's sakes... Slept with 40 odd women in my life... and I still act like a dribbling 12 year old 50% of the time I talk to an attractive woman.

There were some technical mistakes but I think the main point is that you got overeager because this still feels new to you and you are not yet in an abundance mentality.
If that is the case, time and experience will fix it for you.

Your lifetime lays mean something somewhat and may help you logically but you are not in control or leading somewhere

Opening-Hooking-Isolation/Extracting-Closing

It's those early phases right now. Which even if you've fucked 30 women or 200 some men can get by without ever really getting comfortable with them or they return to game rusty and let those early phases weed them out.

Lock in.

Perhaps I am also misdiagnosing -- or at least misunderstanding -- what the issue is.

I smoothly brought up the subject of FWB; she revealed that she wasn't looking for anything because she was moving soon and already had a FWB. Fair enough, I said goodbye, and went on my way.

I become giddy and over-invest/chase.

1. You are very stuck on this idea that you being happy is the cause of your woes and being cringy. It is not. You are not being a leader. Read Chase's post 200 times then apply it bit by bit in your sets.

This is not perhaps this is you are missing opportunities right outside your door.

2. Being smooth would mean

A. You aren't getting the objection
B. She responds in a way that could even seem like an objection, but she's just talking and not really trying to disqualify you
C. You can reframe the objection or find a new course without it in that interaction or elsewhere

You didn't do that so you have misdiagnosed leaderman. Also FWB doesn't mean married and "about to move" means move faster.

3. You are not a terminal case

There are fewer people than pharmaceuticals and the food industry wants you to think whose body's are just completely haywire and nonfunctioning without drug assistance or diets.

"Give your infant kid ADHD pills and your wife Anti-Depressants then give this new diet a chance"

This is a pattern of behavior which you are becoming aware of but have locked into changing - instead gotten attached to an explanation which I'll say again is a misdiagnosis and even if it was accurate you have demonstrated nothing but this thread to counteract.

Your brain chems broken? Get pills. Your doctor would be happy to see you or your insurance pay.

Thanks again for your help on this guys. It's been a thorn in my side for too long, and I'm determined to get to the bottom of it.

Let's see it leaderman

You got this however you decide to approach it just stop getting attached to explanations or realities in which you have no impact in.

You may think you are positive but your post is actually fairly fatalistic and victimizing and you can do better.

peace