Does plowing work for you?

[funkyjam]

Does plowing work for you? I’ll get responses, but no questions for me, or any conversation that is unprompted. And I don’t want it to turn into an interview of me just asking questions. At some point she’s got to reciprocate, ask me a question.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Plowing is an interesting one.

So you run up on a broad, spit your first words, and she responds politely and cordially.

Then you try to open the conversation - question, joke, story, observation - and then you look for/wait for a response - and you get nothing.

According to your experience and your reading of the body language/response, the chick is not interested.

Does it make sense to stay in there?

That's where plowing came in.

From our blue pill programming, that says to not bother people, cold approach is already rude.
Staying in set only makes a bad situation worse, right?

Somebody very smart decided to not waste the failure.

• What happens when you stay in set that goes nowhere?
• Is she going to be a robot no matter what you say?
• Do you know this from experience? With this very girl?

A few things came out of the brave soul that experimented

• Keep talking, something you might say will get some response, some reaction.
• Keep talking to get into state.
• Keep talking, get used to saying outlandish stuff, to get out of your shell, to realize that the Blue Pill was wrong.
• Keep talking, because of the 90/10 rule - you have to a carry an interaction. And the 90/10 rule is about leadership.
• Keep talking, because females are not always comfortable, are sometimes scared of interaction with strangers
• Keep talking, make the hoe say no. Make her walk away.
• Stop talking, but stay in set, and communicate nonverbally
• etc

One of the great things about the golden era, was what I would call the "scientist's pov".

Where most newbs are expecting PUA to be say this thing and get this positive reaction every single time, the Scientist POV expects nothing and tries everything.

Who knew that being disagreeable to a chick would catch their interest?
Who knew that pointing out her foibles would catch her interest?
Who knew that disqualifying yourself would actually make you qualified with the girl?

Those lessons were learned because guys PLOWED.

One of the more recent lessons I learned from a frat boy in college, was when he had opened a chick, but it didn't look like a connection was happening, he'd literally say "We're cool, but the vibe is not there, but I still want to hang out and be friends" - The disqualification didn't work here to score the chick, but rather to increase his social circle. He would get in with the girl, and run through her social circle.

You're ultimately asking a practical question about technique - should I keep rapping to a chick that's giving me nothing.

To "level up" on the practice of pickup, you have to interact with people when you can't get anything from them. And maybe there's something.

Maybe you get any of the things I mentioned above - new data points on interaction.

But you're not gonna get to a better understanding of the game, by doing the same good boy/blue pill stuff that you've been taught.

 

[funkyjam]

Wonderful response, thank you West_Indian_Archie. Great perspective of why to keep plowing. I don't think I've heard it put this way before, I've always understood plowing as a way to somehow get the girl you're with at that moment. It basically comes down to dealing with my own uncomfortableness in a situation where it seems like the connection just isn't happening, I feel like I'm bothering her, but persevere and keep plowing. It's less about getting with that particular girl and more about learning some lessons.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Wonderful response, thank you West_Indian_Archie. Great perspective of why to keep plowing. I don't think I've heard it put this way before, I've always understood plowing as a way to somehow get the girl you're with at that moment. It basically comes down to dealing with my own uncomfortableness in a situation where it seems like the connection just isn't happening, I feel like I'm bothering her, but persevere and keep plowing. It's less about getting with that particular girl and more about learning some lessons.

Before you catch a harassment charge, let's think of some scenarios.

• If she's annoyed, bored, disinterested - that's one thing. 3 swings, and then bounce.
• If she's angry - that can often, though not always, be flipped around.
• If she's sad or seems down - explicitly telling her to "cheer up" will almost always backfire.

But if she seems afraid, disturbed, or something more serious - keep it moving when she doesn't give you anything.

Game tech is not a lock - it's an art, not a science - and sometimes bad things happen to guys who are just socially clueless.

The key with opening, transition, conversation, "me to you", "sexual intent" - is to really get used to talking to strangers.

Pick Up is built on a layer of good social skills.

I definitely think more guys should be reading Emotional Intelligence books. Goleman wrote the big one, but there are others.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Great posts by WIA. Check this out: my pickup mentor was the best PUA I ever heard of. And plowing was his number one rule. He had it in his signature in every post he wrote.

What he meant however was a bit more subtle. He didn't mean keep talking at a girl who's already put her hand in your face. He meant keep running your game even if you don't get immediate and obvious IOIs (or even if you perceive IODs).

Why? Because she may be interested but her IOIs may be so subtle that you don't see them. We all suck at reading women's signals anyway. Or, she may be shy. She may be IOD'ing, but it may just be her auto pilot, nothing personal.

Mostly though: you don't need fireworks and IOIs up front. You just need a conversation going, that's all. Attraction comes later, you start building it after the convo has been going for a couple minutes already.

Also, in the first few minutes you're not talking to the real "her" anyway, you're talking to the persona, so it's a good idea to keep talking until you're past all that. Most importantly, don't expect her to give huge IOIs.

I agree with "3 swings then bounce" as a rule of thumb.

 

[Chase]

This is a great thread. Value-packed replies from @West_Indian_Archie and @Karea Ricardus D.

I really liked that frat boy buddy's plan. I'm 100% on-board with CJ's "don't worry about early IOIs" approach too.

Just a couple other things to add:

• Having a couple of pieces of tech you're testing out that you keep in your back pocket is great for these girls who stick around but don't give you much. Like the scientist / experimentation WIA's talking about... "Okay, well my goal was to try moving five girls today. This girl's talking to me but not giving me much either way. Let's see what happens when I try to move her."
  
  
• Some girls are really passive and can take a while to get into it. These are the girls who just stand there looking at you, responding, maybe smiling or maybe not. It doesn't feel like it's awkward for them or like they're trying to get away but they aren't hooking either. What I do with these girls is after 3-4 minutes of talking just suddenly go, "Hey do you want to go sit?" and gesture off toward somewhere nearby that we could sit down. She's forced to either comply or eject at that point, so at least you've got confirmation of interest (or not). She will either say "Sure" (and then you're thinking, "Oh. I didn't expect that. I guess she's the girl you spit game at and try to calibrate the escalation based on limited feedback from") or she'll say "Actually I have to blah blah" and then you can wish her well and be on your way.
  
  
• If she's already seated and I can't invite her somewhere, after 3-4 minutes of her talking and not really giving much but not shooing me away either I will say "Hey you know I like talking to you but I don't want to impose... should I sit or should I leave you to your devices?" Then she will either invite you to sit or start in on the "Well you know I need to blah blah" and you can make your exit.

Even after she agrees to a move or for you to join her you still need to aim to get her contributing more, and at the very least need to compliance test her throughout the conversation so you don't end up sitting with a girl for an hour who ultimately never starts contributing and never becomes compliant enough to let it go anywhere.

I will say if you get the girls who will sit with you for N minutes and don't really engage or pass compliance tests, those girls will still sometimes come out onto dates and go to bed, so they can be worth grabbing phone numbers from and following up with if they're cute (and you don't mind all the passivity).

Chase