Boy, I think I deserve a medal in perseverance. It's been 6 wks since we last met and said we should do something, but then Ramadan and other stuff came along that prevented her from doing anything. This is the banker girl I flirted with months ago and whose number I got. Since I've posted several questions w.r.t. texting / calling in the beginner forum, here's the report. I'm almost 38 btw, so we're probably older than most here.
Met her for dinner yesterday. 7:30 PM. The place was packed. She walks in and I'm stunned - she's easily the most beautiful woman there and by far the most attractive one I ever dated. She's wearing a sleeveless, green silk top, exposing fit and toned arms, and tight black pants. Her hair is immaculate, and she's perfectly groomed. 9/10 or even 10/10. Men are shooting glances at her and the waiters are practically rushing to the door to greet her. I couldn't believe a woman like that would meet me, but pull myself together.
Our texts were flirty and fun, so I want to start on a good note and immediately tease her ("hey where's that curly hair you told me about... false advertising... I'll be leaving now," "hey, nice seeing you again, but my date should be here any minute now, please leave"), etc. The first 45 minutes are awesome and she is laughing and clearly enjoying herself. Her hands are on the table, but it's tiny and with the glasses and candle, I see no way for kino.
We chat, order food, and by the time we get it, it's probably 8:45. We're still talking easily, but during dinner there are one or two moments where I need a few seconds to come up with something. Luckily she immediately starts asking me questions.
After dinner I start leading into a palm reading routine I've rehearsed (used it last week on another girl, they just love this) by asking how her friends would describe her, is she superstitious, etc. Then I ask if she'd like to have her hand read. She lights up and really, really wants it, so I move all the crap to the next table which was conveniently empty by then. I grab her hand and start. After a minute or so she jokes "you're not doing this just to hold my hand are you?" I said something cocky/funny like "yes. And it worked!". So I read her hand, but unfortunately it doesn't go as well as I wanted. I spend a few mins making generic statements, stuff aimed at what I already know about her, then at the end I always say "there IS one more line... the love line... *I look elsewhere and feign disinterest in a teasing way* but I'm not sure if I should read that..." I put her hand down, tell her it's going to cost her, drop the subject, say we should get desert, etc. She's practically begging me to read it by then. After some teasing I do, and I make up stuff about "finding happiness and losing it several times, until she meets this guy from Europe (i.e. me) who will finally make her truly happy.... but then again I might be totally wrong, so I guess we'll have to see the coming few weeks!" *wink* This usually works like a charm, but for some reason it falls flat on its face and she keeps asking what I really see, how many kids, etc, and I falter and tell her I'm not that advanced yet at reading and that she says she isn't superstitious anyway. So it kind of ends on a lame note. Damn. If only I could've kept my cool here. Oh well
We decline dessert, but I suggest getting ice cream elsewhere. She says she doesn't know if she should. The AFC in me was about to say "ok, no problem" but then I remember to be a man and say "I think you should." Lo and behold she says "yes, I should." So I drive her to a nearby place where we spend another hour chatting. No kino unfortunately as she was leaning back in her chair and I couldn't figure out how to touch her without it being creepy or awkward. I drive her back car at 11 PM. She turns to me and says something like thanks, gotta go. She faces me and stays put for a second, but I was too nervous and only now realize she might have been waiting for me to do something. I said "I'll get out too" in a dorky way, and she gets out, stands at my car until I've walked over to her side (instead of getting in hers which was parked 5 ft away). I give her a hug and kiss on the cheek and rub her back just for a second. In hindsight I should've kissed her on the lips, or at least kissed and hugged/rubbed her in slow motion in a sweet / seductive way, but she didn't seem super engaged (although she didn't resist in any way) and I was nervous and AFC for the close. She had a hard cut off to pick up her brother at the airport at that point too (maybe that's why she was a bit absent? Thinking about the drive or seeing her brother/nieces again?)... so I kind of panicked and just hugged and kissed her quickly. Now I realize it was awkward, but at the time I was just so nervous
Oh, turns out this "girl" is well over 40... She asked me to guess her age (I joked "aww don't ask me, you sneaky women always do that" or "you backed me into a corner!" or something like that). I guessed 33... 34... then settled on 36. She wouldn't tell me but later we were talking about kids, and she said she loves them, but probably will probably never have her own because of her age. So that makes her ~42 or older? 4-5 years older than me. I thought I could tell by her face and personality she was more mature, but man, her face and body are just flawless, no lines whatsoever, immaculate skin, and she would embarrass most 25 year olds. Works out, perfectly groomed, perfectly dressed, exotic hair and eyes, very light caramel skin, absolutely gorgeous.
The good:
1. I touched her hands and arm several times later during dinner. She didn't resist or show any discomfort.
2. She said she doesn't like manicures and nail polish, yet her nails were freshly polished, so she took an effort to look good for me.
3. Asked me questions when I was rummaging my brain for topics.
4. No lulls or awkward moments in the conversation.
5. She didn't rush to her car and stood still next to mine as I nervously got out and walked over to her.
6. The first hour of the date was awesome and super flirty, she was having an awesome time.
7. After she said she wasn't sure if she should go with me for ice cream, I said "you should" and she agreed.
8. Many things in common: dream travel destination, grooming / cleanliness / relationship stuff, we've both lived in several countries and have much more experiences than the average American, etc.
9. She stuck around from 7:30 PM to 11PM. While talking about some date-related stuff, she's hinted (jokingly?) that she's short on patience, usually takes a call or says she has to go if she isn't having a good time.
10. Talking about Bollywood movies, she suggested we go see one, then later while chatting about restaurants I pointed out a favorite and she said "hey! the Bollywood theatre is just 5 minutes from there!" This could be seen as a hint for a future dinner/movie date?
The bad:
1. Toward the end of the date I think I started talking too much... I'd kinda run out of topics, had run out of deep dive / flirty stuff, and was starting to worry about the kiss, which addled my thoughts so I just started talking.
2. All the really good funny/cocky, teasing, flirting, deep diving was in the 1st half. The 2nd half wasn't bad, but was definitely more "friend zone" type convo...I did my best to keep asking follow up questions (why do you love X / why do you say that / etc) but am upset with myself now for not doing a better job. Should I have ended the date earlier on a higher note?
3. I kinda messed up the hug / kiss. She didn't seem super engaged at that point which only made me more nervous about what to do.
4. Her body language during the last hour was not good... arms crossed, leaning back... I got her to light up and lean forward once but she wasn't sitting as she was in the restaurant... I hope it wasn't subconsciously related to me or the fact that it wasn't as exciting / funny as the first 2 hours.
5. I'm a fast talker and move skittishly. I'm working on speaking slower and improving my body language, but I'm sure I was talking quickly and moving a bit nervously while she was totally composed and calm.
6. I don't have much experience with dating or "game." She's been on quite a few dates and relationships, so she may have seen through me and realized I'm just an AFC?
7. Most women in their 40s are limited to men in their 50s (since guys in 40s would go for girls in 30s), but she's so gorgeous I do not doubt men in their 20s and 30s line up for her. Which means I probably have a lot of competition and am not the only guy in his 30s asking her out.
She's so my type it's scary. I've always loved Indian and Pakistani woman and here is a total winner possibly within my reach. I could care less if she turns out to be 47; she's clever, gorgeous, and has a good sense of humor. Even though I'm white I'm not big into American girls. As most south Asian girls are married early in their 20s, or are not allowed to date outside their own culture, this is a rare opportunity and I will not next her unless she clearly shows no further interest.
You may laugh at this report, as I'm 37 and am supposed to know this stuff. But I threw away 20 years of my life and didn't really approach or pursue women until a year ago... before that I'd approached only the ones I really liked - maybe 10 in 10 years - and of course they all bombed which didn't help my confidence. I've stumbled into two relationships, but have generally been clueless about "game" and approaching women. I wish I could be 20 again, but it is what it is and I have to make do with where I am in life now.
I'll research whether I should text a quick "good time, let's repeat later this week," and when I should call... tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for the help so far and wish me the best.
PS - She's big on clever and smart. She knows she's beautiful but really likes compliments about her brain. How does "fun meeting you, you are as clever as you are pretty" sound? Note she's over 40 so this isn't your 20 year old college girl, I'm not looking for a fling nor is she... I am perfectly fine being pegged in the BF category, as I'm looking to settle down.
PPS - I'm unsure how to escalate if she agrees to another date... in theory, she's muslim and has good morals / values, doesn't drink, so I have no idea what she will or wont' do. I'll suggest a 2nd date of a walk in the park where I can try to kiss her on the lips, or play games at Dave and Busters and kiss her on the lips after at the car. For date 3, I'll invite her back to my place for dinner (assuming we get that far).
/AFC trying to improve his game at a late point in life.
Met her for dinner yesterday. 7:30 PM. The place was packed. She walks in and I'm stunned - she's easily the most beautiful woman there and by far the most attractive one I ever dated. She's wearing a sleeveless, green silk top, exposing fit and toned arms, and tight black pants. Her hair is immaculate, and she's perfectly groomed. 9/10 or even 10/10. Men are shooting glances at her and the waiters are practically rushing to the door to greet her. I couldn't believe a woman like that would meet me, but pull myself together.
Our texts were flirty and fun, so I want to start on a good note and immediately tease her ("hey where's that curly hair you told me about... false advertising... I'll be leaving now," "hey, nice seeing you again, but my date should be here any minute now, please leave"), etc. The first 45 minutes are awesome and she is laughing and clearly enjoying herself. Her hands are on the table, but it's tiny and with the glasses and candle, I see no way for kino.
We chat, order food, and by the time we get it, it's probably 8:45. We're still talking easily, but during dinner there are one or two moments where I need a few seconds to come up with something. Luckily she immediately starts asking me questions.
After dinner I start leading into a palm reading routine I've rehearsed (used it last week on another girl, they just love this) by asking how her friends would describe her, is she superstitious, etc. Then I ask if she'd like to have her hand read. She lights up and really, really wants it, so I move all the crap to the next table which was conveniently empty by then. I grab her hand and start. After a minute or so she jokes "you're not doing this just to hold my hand are you?" I said something cocky/funny like "yes. And it worked!". So I read her hand, but unfortunately it doesn't go as well as I wanted. I spend a few mins making generic statements, stuff aimed at what I already know about her, then at the end I always say "there IS one more line... the love line... *I look elsewhere and feign disinterest in a teasing way* but I'm not sure if I should read that..." I put her hand down, tell her it's going to cost her, drop the subject, say we should get desert, etc. She's practically begging me to read it by then. After some teasing I do, and I make up stuff about "finding happiness and losing it several times, until she meets this guy from Europe (i.e. me) who will finally make her truly happy.... but then again I might be totally wrong, so I guess we'll have to see the coming few weeks!" *wink* This usually works like a charm, but for some reason it falls flat on its face and she keeps asking what I really see, how many kids, etc, and I falter and tell her I'm not that advanced yet at reading and that she says she isn't superstitious anyway. So it kind of ends on a lame note. Damn. If only I could've kept my cool here. Oh well
We decline dessert, but I suggest getting ice cream elsewhere. She says she doesn't know if she should. The AFC in me was about to say "ok, no problem" but then I remember to be a man and say "I think you should." Lo and behold she says "yes, I should." So I drive her to a nearby place where we spend another hour chatting. No kino unfortunately as she was leaning back in her chair and I couldn't figure out how to touch her without it being creepy or awkward. I drive her back car at 11 PM. She turns to me and says something like thanks, gotta go. She faces me and stays put for a second, but I was too nervous and only now realize she might have been waiting for me to do something. I said "I'll get out too" in a dorky way, and she gets out, stands at my car until I've walked over to her side (instead of getting in hers which was parked 5 ft away). I give her a hug and kiss on the cheek and rub her back just for a second. In hindsight I should've kissed her on the lips, or at least kissed and hugged/rubbed her in slow motion in a sweet / seductive way, but she didn't seem super engaged (although she didn't resist in any way) and I was nervous and AFC for the close. She had a hard cut off to pick up her brother at the airport at that point too (maybe that's why she was a bit absent? Thinking about the drive or seeing her brother/nieces again?)... so I kind of panicked and just hugged and kissed her quickly. Now I realize it was awkward, but at the time I was just so nervous
Oh, turns out this "girl" is well over 40... She asked me to guess her age (I joked "aww don't ask me, you sneaky women always do that" or "you backed me into a corner!" or something like that). I guessed 33... 34... then settled on 36. She wouldn't tell me but later we were talking about kids, and she said she loves them, but probably will probably never have her own because of her age. So that makes her ~42 or older? 4-5 years older than me. I thought I could tell by her face and personality she was more mature, but man, her face and body are just flawless, no lines whatsoever, immaculate skin, and she would embarrass most 25 year olds. Works out, perfectly groomed, perfectly dressed, exotic hair and eyes, very light caramel skin, absolutely gorgeous.
The good:
1. I touched her hands and arm several times later during dinner. She didn't resist or show any discomfort.
2. She said she doesn't like manicures and nail polish, yet her nails were freshly polished, so she took an effort to look good for me.
3. Asked me questions when I was rummaging my brain for topics.
4. No lulls or awkward moments in the conversation.
5. She didn't rush to her car and stood still next to mine as I nervously got out and walked over to her.
6. The first hour of the date was awesome and super flirty, she was having an awesome time.
7. After she said she wasn't sure if she should go with me for ice cream, I said "you should" and she agreed.
8. Many things in common: dream travel destination, grooming / cleanliness / relationship stuff, we've both lived in several countries and have much more experiences than the average American, etc.
9. She stuck around from 7:30 PM to 11PM. While talking about some date-related stuff, she's hinted (jokingly?) that she's short on patience, usually takes a call or says she has to go if she isn't having a good time.
10. Talking about Bollywood movies, she suggested we go see one, then later while chatting about restaurants I pointed out a favorite and she said "hey! the Bollywood theatre is just 5 minutes from there!" This could be seen as a hint for a future dinner/movie date?
The bad:
1. Toward the end of the date I think I started talking too much... I'd kinda run out of topics, had run out of deep dive / flirty stuff, and was starting to worry about the kiss, which addled my thoughts so I just started talking.
2. All the really good funny/cocky, teasing, flirting, deep diving was in the 1st half. The 2nd half wasn't bad, but was definitely more "friend zone" type convo...I did my best to keep asking follow up questions (why do you love X / why do you say that / etc) but am upset with myself now for not doing a better job. Should I have ended the date earlier on a higher note?
3. I kinda messed up the hug / kiss. She didn't seem super engaged at that point which only made me more nervous about what to do.
4. Her body language during the last hour was not good... arms crossed, leaning back...
I got her to light up and lean forward once but she wasn't sitting as she was in the restaurant... I hope it wasn't subconsciously related to me or the fact that it wasn't as exciting / funny as the first 2 hours. 5. I'm a fast talker and move skittishly. I'm working on speaking slower and improving my body language, but I'm sure I was talking quickly and moving a bit nervously while she was totally composed and calm.
6. I don't have much experience with dating or "game." She's been on quite a few dates and relationships, so she may have seen through me and realized I'm just an AFC?
7. Most women in their 40s are limited to men in their 50s (since guys in 40s would go for girls in 30s), but she's so gorgeous I do not doubt men in their 20s and 30s line up for her. Which means I probably have a lot of competition and am not the only guy in his 30s asking her out.
She's so my type it's scary. I've always loved Indian and Pakistani woman and here is a total winner possibly within my reach. I could care less if she turns out to be 47; she's clever, gorgeous, and has a good sense of humor. Even though I'm white I'm not big into American girls. As most south Asian girls are married early in their 20s, or are not allowed to date outside their own culture, this is a rare opportunity and I will not next her unless she clearly shows no further interest.
You may laugh at this report, as I'm 37 and am supposed to know this stuff. But I threw away 20 years of my life and didn't really approach or pursue women until a year ago... before that I'd approached only the ones I really liked - maybe 10 in 10 years - and of course they all bombed which didn't help my confidence. I've stumbled into two relationships, but have generally been clueless about "game" and approaching women. I wish I could be 20 again, but it is what it is and I have to make do with where I am in life now.
I'll research whether I should text a quick "good time, let's repeat later this week," and when I should call... tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for the help so far and wish me the best.
PS - She's big on clever and smart. She knows she's beautiful but really likes compliments about her brain. How does "fun meeting you, you are as clever as you are pretty" sound? Note she's over 40 so this isn't your 20 year old college girl, I'm not looking for a fling nor is she... I am perfectly fine being pegged in the BF category, as I'm looking to settle down.
PPS - I'm unsure how to escalate if she agrees to another date... in theory, she's muslim and has good morals / values, doesn't drink, so I have no idea what she will or wont' do. I'll suggest a 2nd date of a walk in the park where I can try to kiss her on the lips, or play games at Dave and Busters and kiss her on the lips after at the car. For date 3, I'll invite her back to my place for dinner (assuming we get that far).
/AFC trying to improve his game at a late point in life.
