Friend zoned within a week?

[foxman2]

Hi everyone,

I am new to this board, but I have an interesting situation, perhaps at the very least a learning experience.

So the week of thanksgiving I picked up a girls number, texted her, neither of us could meet right away because of thanksgiving break, so I said we should plan something for the following week. My intentions were clear as day. She agreed, but then she became busy the day before and took a raincheck. So I try to see what her schedule was like a couple days later, and she says "I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea, this is just as friends." She then tells me that she is talking to a guy and is about to date him.

I know it would have been ideal to have taken her out the night I got her number or the next day, but maybe I made some other mistakes.

My speculation is that sometime within me getting her number and our plans, she hooked up with this guy, and forgot about me.

Is there any way I can fix this situation?


Thanks in advance.

Thanks for all the help

 

[stratvm]

i`ve been doing this stuff for a few weeks only but what i`ve seen is that the number of women you meet is just overwhelming and it makes absolutely no sense to try to fix anything with anyone.

just move on, go out again, talk to a random few girls to reset your mind from the previous girl(s). it`s easier. if she wants something she will text.

*** DON`T CHASE WOMEN. LET THEM CHASE YOU.

and yes, i do see that during nightgame your best chance to act is the same night - something i`ve yet to accomplish ffs. i grabbed the number of a gal last week after asking her once (only) to come home with me. i met her on thursday and i scored a last 5% failure. which i could`ve avoided if i insisted on coming home with me i think

*** TAKE HER HOME THE SAME NIGHT.

 

[Chase]

Foxman,

Yep - stratvm here is right on the money.

In case you missed it, there's a post up on the site that details the exact situation you're finding yourself in:

How to Get Girls: The Last Post You'll Ever Need

Essentially, when you wait a bit too long and some other guy snags her in the meantime, you're done, because she has the feeling that she's "selected" him over you. I've seen countless guys chase girls down that they've had this happen to with them, but I've not seen one of them ever turn it around. Even in the movies, which are usually favorable to nice guys, the nice guy usually doesn't get the girl in this situation until about 10 years later after he has thoroughly proved himself to be The Best Husband Candidate There Is, and the girl's had her fill of bad boys and decided it's time to settle for a nice guy.

So, forget about her. Tell her, "Oh, okay - well I'm not interested in being friends. Text me sometime if you change your mind, and we can grab a drink."

If you were further along down the road, I'd tell you banter with her and tell her, "I was just going to text you the same thing, friend Let's meet at..." and basically meet her and outframe her and fill the air with sexual tension and intrigue, but it doesn't sound like you're at that point yet and she has a pretty solid "friend frame" that you're not going to be able to crack. You'll do much better dropping her and moving on, and meeting tons of new women who can still view you as a potential mate.

Best,
Chase

 

[Just_Dave]

Foxman,

Yep - stratvm here is right on the money.

In case you missed it, there's a post up on the site that details the exact situation you're finding yourself in:

How to Get Girls: The Last Post You'll Ever Need

Essentially, when you wait a bit too long and some other guy snags her in the meantime, you're done, because she has the feeling that she's "selected" him over you. I've seen countless guys chase girls down that they've had this happen to with them, but I've not seen one of them ever turn it around. Even in the movies, which are usually favorable to nice guys, the nice guy usually doesn't get the girl in this situation until about 10 years later after he has thoroughly proved himself to be The Best Husband Candidate There Is, and the girl's had her fill of bad boys and decided it's time to settle for a nice guy.

So, forget about her. Tell her, "Oh, okay - well I'm not interested in being friends. Text me sometime if you change your mind, and we can grab a drink."

If you were further along down the road, I'd tell you banter with her and tell her, "I was just going to text you the same thing, friend Let's meet at..." and basically meet her and outframe her and fill the air with sexual tension and intrigue, but it doesn't sound like you're at that point yet and she has a pretty solid "friend frame" that you're not going to be able to crack. You'll do much better dropping her and moving on, and meeting tons of new women who can still view you as a potential mate.

Best,
Chase

Hey Chase,

There are getting to be a lot of comments on the bored about being friends with girls. Like concerns and preserving the friendship and such, I've read the blog and such. The thing I don't understand is why some guys are interested in being friends with girls when it has no benefits!?

 

[Franco]

Hey Dave,

The thing I don't understand is why some guys are interested in being friends with girls when it has no benefits!?

There is some truth to this statement, but it is also not entirely true. I have tons of female friends that I still socialize with all the time, and a lot of these are very attractive girls that friend-zoned me in the past. Some of these girls I was interested in romantically and others I was not. Either way, I accumulated a lot of girls who saw me too much as potential "boyfriend" material, and I never made things happen with them.

However, these girls regularly hit me up all the time to come visit me and grab drinks together and just shoot the hay. The great part about this is that I have what I have refer to as permanent abundance portrayal. Basically what I mean by this is, I always have attractive women around me who will never leave because there is little-to-no risk of drama. Just having these female friends has helped keep my value high with newer women who always see girls so "excited" to be around or come visit me. I believe Chase also mentions that he considers his ex-girlfriends as "sisters" and treats them accordingly.

This is the main problem with most of the folks that you are referring to though: they still attempt to go after the women that they have already been friend-zoned by. Instead of realizing, "Hey, I screwed up with this girl, but she's very attractive and she'd make a great friend to raise my value," they instead think, "well if I just keep trying with her, at some point she'll come to realize that I'm the right guy!"

This is where most men fail to understand that this is not the way women think. You need to get out there and meet new women who are willing to see you as a lover first instead of as a friend or boyfriend. There are many fish in the sea... you just have to know how to properly cast your line and use the hook.

- Franco

 

[Just_Dave]

Hey Dave,

The thing I don't understand is why some guys are interested in being friends with girls when it has no benefits!?

There is some truth to this statement, but it is also not entirely true. I have tons of female friends that I still socialize with all the time, and a lot of these are very attractive girls that friend-zoned me in the past. Some of these girls I was interested in romantically and others I was not. Either way, I accumulated a lot of girls who saw me too much as potential "boyfriend" material, and I never made things happen with them.

However, these girls regularly hit me up all the time to come visit me and grab drinks together and just shoot the hay. The great part about this is that I have what I have refer to as permanent abundance portrayal. Basically what I mean by this is, I always have attractive women around me who will never leave because there is little-to-no risk of drama. Just having these female friends has helped keep my value high with newer women who always see girls so "excited" to be around or come visit me. I believe Chase also mentions that he considers his ex-girlfriends as "sisters" and treats them accordingly.

This is the main problem with most of the folks that you are referring to though: they still attempt to go after the women that they have already been friend-zoned by. Instead of realizing, "Hey, I screwed up with this girl, but she's very attractive and she'd make a great friend to raise my value," they instead think, "well if I just keep trying with her, at some point she'll come to realize that I'm the right guy!"

This is where most men fail to understand that this is not the way women think. You need to get out there and meet new women who are willing to see you as a lover first instead of as a friend or boyfriend. There are many fish in the sea... you just have to know how to properly cast your line and use the hook.

- Franco

Thank you so much for clearing that up Franco! I like how you described the right approach of keeping friends around for raising value and to just chill with. Then clarified the wrong approach of keep knocking at a door that just won't open. Being in college there are some girls who I just study with. I think my main question came from "Why would a guy willingly choose to be tooled by a girl?". I guess I chose the less offensive way to say it.

Dave

 

[Light]

Hi Just_Dave,

On a side note to what Franco already said, I too have many attractive girl friends by my side, who just like to hang around with me.
To me, this is always a good thing, because whenever you are going out together, it helps with your Preselection.
When girls see you together with a group of attractive girls, they would want to know who you are.

Also, keeping girls around allows you to understand them more. It helps with analysing how different type of girl thinks and act. Treat them as a specimen to study on. The only reason why I am so good at reading girl's minds is because I personally grew up in a family full of women, and I have always been a people person.

Another big bonus for being friend with a girl - SHE HAS OTHER FEMALE FRIENDS!
Correct! It is all about Networking! Just because you couldn't get that one girl, doesn't mean you won't be able to get her friends! Treat it as opening up a new door to many other doors! Always a good thing!

"So you just wanna be friends... well ok. The next time you hang out with your girls, give me a shout, and I'll be there." - If you say this early enough, you never know.. she may start to be jealous once her friends starts to be attracted to you

I will never say no to a girl when it comes to only being friend... as long as I am 100% sure that I won't get to bed her.


Light

 

[Franco]

Everything Light has mentioned here is spot on. I actually prefer to friend-zone girls now if I know sleeping with them is not an option. It only builds up your value and provides you with more information on how the female mind works.

And that is something worth hanging on to.

- Franco

 

[Just_Dave]

Everything Light has mentioned here is spot on. I actually prefer to friend-zone girls now if I know sleeping with them is not an option. It only builds up your value and provides you with more information on how the female mind works.

And that is something worth hanging on to.

- Franco

I see, I've used those techniques in the past such as dating her friends and such. I guess one thing I want to ask you guys is how you do frame your friendships where the girl is putting more effort in than you?

 

[Light]

I see, I've used those techniques in the past such as dating her friends and such. I guess one thing I want to ask you guys is how you do frame your friendships where the girl is putting more effort in than you?

That is a very good question... I had to really think about that one.

With these girls, because I mainly use them for networking purpose, I don't really keep in contact with them unless I feel like meeting new people. So neither do I text them or call them. But what I do is, occasionally I would "Invite her out" to go somewhere, group party, club, group activities as such. Booking your own karaoke room or bar seating area is a great one.

The trick is, you invite her out to your "own controlled environment", and ask her to bring her female friends along. You can use the excuse "I wana hook up some of my boys with your girls, we can both play match making " - This puts her in a "We vs Them" mindset, and also shows that you appear to be the dominant member of your own group.
It also makes her put a great effort in. Trust me, it takes a bit of effort for a girl to get her girls out just for you (someone they don't even know).

Say the worse comes, and she fails to get any new girls out, its still ok as long as she comes out. But what you then do is, tease her... pretend to give her grieve...
"sigh... I was really looking forward to hearing an A Cappella of silly giggles from your group tonight... my boys are so disappointed and sad... "
She will try to say sorry, and try to make it up to you in other ways. You pretend everything is fine, but you then tease her and bring it up again every now and then, and she will end up putting in A LOT of effort that night just to keep you happy.

This is just one method I use. When I think of more I'll let you know


Light

 

[Just_Dave]

I see, I've used those techniques in the past such as dating her friends and such. I guess one thing I want to ask you guys is how you do frame your friendships where the girl is putting more effort in than you?

That is a very good question... I had to really think about that one.

With these girls, because I mainly use them for networking purpose, I don't really keep in contact with them unless I feel like meeting new people. So neither do I text them or call them. But what I do is, occasionally I would "Invite her out" to go somewhere, group party, club, group activities as such. Booking your own karaoke room or bar seating area is a great one.

The trick is, you invite her out to your "own controlled environment", and ask her to bring her female friends along. You can use the excuse "I wana hook up some of my boys with your girls, we can both play match making " - This puts her in a "We vs Them" mindset, and also shows that you appear to be the dominant member of your own group.
It also makes her put a great effort in. Trust me, it takes a bit of effort for a girl to get her girls out just for you (someone they don't even know).

Say the worse comes, and she fails to get any new girls out, its still ok as long as she comes out. But what you then do is, tease her... pretend to give her grieve...
"sigh... I was really looking forward to hearing an A Cappella of silly giggles from your group tonight... my boys are so disappointed and sad... "
She will try to say sorry, and try to make it up to you in other ways. You pretend everything is fine, but you then tease her and bring it up again every now and then, and she will end up putting in A LOT of effort that night just to keep you happy.

This is just one method I use. When I think of more I'll let you know


Light

I see, thanks for clearing that up Light. There have been times when my female friends would invite me out to places like wild partying or drinking, but I'm more of a chill type of dude especially since I'm not trying to live single for my girlfriend's sake. I like how it's on your terms too, that way you have control of the situation. There have been times last year where I got stuck being a ride for a girl and her friends, it feels miserable when you don't have control of the situation. That's when I really stopped making myself available and would chill with girls who just wanted to chill. I like going to the hot tub and my school and catching up with coworkers from time to time.

I really like how you prioritize your time by not texting them first. I've gotten out of some sticky situations recently by doing this, and being with my girlfriend and having a good group of girls shows me the knows that genuinely like spending time with me. I like the one's I can sit back and have a killer conversation with or give me great date ideas.

 

[Light]

Ooohh... I have another good one for you.
I also get invites out to go wild parties and club nights from these girls. BUT, the main reason is because these girls that invites me out knows that I am fun to hang around with.
So you should spend time in building up that kind of reputation for yourself. (Mind you, this only applies to girls who has already Friend Zoned you).

Now here is another trick.
When I get invites of such, I will often say "Sure, how about we go get some pre-drink at a local bar before hand? Or you can even come over to mine with a bottle of red wine and we can start from there.."
Most of the time she will say "yes, that sounds like a great idea".... hey - ho!

You can guess the rest right? You guys don't really go to the after party

Even if they insist on a after party, you can always suggest to go somewhere else or do something else (your controlled environment).
Should the worse happens, and she / her and her friends insist on going to the after party, you just politely tell them you can't. Make up an excuse.
You had a bit too much and you now have a headache. Or text your friend to give you a call, and have him pull you to a different event etc etc.

The key is control. Its either your way, or the high way my friend.

Hope this tip helps.


Light

 

[Just_Dave]

Ooohh... I have another good one for you.
I also get invites out to go wild parties and club nights from these girls. BUT, the main reason is because these girls that invites me out knows that I am fun to hang around with.
So you should spend time in building up that kind of reputation for yourself. (Mind you, this only applies to girls who has already Friend Zoned you).

Now here is another trick.
When I get invites of such, I will often say "Sure, how about we go get some pre-drink at a local bar before hand? Or you can even come over to mine with a bottle of red wine and we can start from there.."
Most of the time she will say "yes, that sounds like a great idea".... hey - ho!

You can guess the rest right? You guys don't really go to the after party

Even if they insist on a after party, you can always suggest to go somewhere else or do something else (your controlled environment).
Should the worse happens, and she / her and her friends insist on going to the after party, you just politely tell them you can't. Make up an excuse.
You had a bit too much and you now have a headache. Or text your friend to give you a call, and have him pull you to a different event etc etc.

The key is control. Its either your way, or the high way my friend.

Hope this tip helps.


Light

Thanks for clearing that up Light! Very solid post and ideas

 

[Franco]

I see, I've used those techniques in the past such as dating her friends and such. I guess one thing I want to ask you guys is how you do frame your friendships where the girl is putting more effort in than you?

Dave,

Light pretty much nailed it on the head -- once you know that a girl is no longer a potential girlfriend, there is no reason to keep texting her! Continuing to communicate with her will only push you further and further into the friend zone where she just completely loses any attraction she had for you. And if you continue to contact her even more from that point, you run the risk of ending up in the creeper zone. And as most guys probably already know, that is usually a bottomless pit of no return.

To get a female as a friend who will invest more in you than you are investing in her, the first step is that you have to be able to recognize immediately when she is no longer a potential girlfriend. And by this, I mean that you were not able to escalate with her quickly enough to the point where you bedded her within a reasonable amount of time while she still viewed you as a sexy man and potential "Lover." Most men chase women way beyond this point and ruin any chances they have of keeping her as an attractive female friend who is highly invested in them.

In order to see the entire process a girl goes through, I will draw the following timeline graph:

>>-------------------------------->>-------------------------------->>-------------------------------->>
Lover........................Boyfriend..........................Friend........................Creeper

This timeline graph represents a girl's "process" that she goes through when she is approached by a guy (assuming it is a guy approaching with the intention of becoming her Lover). Although girls would never consciously acknowledge this timeline, this is how it always plays out.

In order to take a girl as an attractive female friend with higher investment in you than you have in her, you have to invest enough in her that she sees you as potential boyfriend or mating material, but just not right now. When does this point occur? I will re-draw the graph and plot this on the timeline. The "O" (relatively) represents the point at which you need to get a girl in order to keep her highly invested in you without requiring much effort on your part in return.

>>-------------------------------->>-------------------------O------>>-------------------------------->>
Lover........................Boyfriend..........................Friend........................Creeper

So to answer your question, Dave, you need to invest enough in her to the point where she still sees you as a potential "Boyfriend," but not so much that she believes you have no interest in her at all romantically and are looking to just be a friend. In order to do this, you will need to accept some of the offers she will give you for doing fun activities with her (ideally in groups) and meet her friends and socialize with them. If you can impress all of her friends -- especially her close female ones -- you will solidify yourself as a guy of high value and someone that she should hang on to for future possibilities.

Again, these are things you only do once you are certain that sleeping with her will require an extraordinary amount of effort from you because she has already labeled you as boyfriend material.

On another note, you also want to avoid "dropping her" when you are still within close distance of the "Boyfriend" marker. The major reason for this is that, if you do not invest enough in her after she begins to see you as boyfriend material, she will begin to become upset that she can't have you right now and she'll go into auto-rejection. Once this happens, any hope of keeping her as a friend goes out the window.

Anyway, this was a long post, but I hope I've painted a clearer picture. =)

- Franco

 

[Just_Dave]

@Franco, thank you that paints a much clearer picture. I'll attempt to keep this in my mind as I'm out and about.

 

[Light]

Thanks Franco.

I couldn't explain this any better.
That was sweet.
Loving the timeline.


Light

 

[stratvm]

the concept of mass-friendzoning women is extremely appealing to get to know more women. Franco`s post about the theoretical basics is good but it seems quite hard to do this... maybe a post on the blog on "how to friendzone girls" would be useful...