LR- Friend's sister

[Nojas]

Hey folks,

I’ve been reading GC for a couple months now. This is my first post. I’m rather a newbie in the whole seduction. However since i began reading GC (a couple months now), i arranged a regular booty call, and tried two lays where i encountered resistance, didn’t know how to handle them, so the sex didn’t happen. All three girls were from social circles, I haven’t tried cold approaching yet.

Here’s the rapport of the second tried lay which happened yesterday evening :
We had dinner at a friend’s house to celebrate new year's eve. His sister was there as well. I had met her a few times before and kinda knew her but not well, as she had a boyfriend previously.
I was in a dominant role and lead the interactions around the table, but didn’t set any sexual frames (need to train on that).
During the meal at some point she said that she hadn’t had sex (or something along this line) for a few months, since she dumped her boyfriend. I took that as a hint.
Later we went out to a bar/dancing. As I like dancing, she started giving me lots of positive attention and came to dance with me several times. We got into some soft touching at first, and progressively i moved my hands to her ass and breasts (all in a socially acceptable way for being in a bar). Other women were chasing me (amongst them my regular booty call of late). I felt that I had my game tight ; abundance mentality, no chasing on my part, high self confidence.
At some point my friend danced with her sister and started pushing her towards me. I got that as a « go ahead » permission from him.
Later I asked the sister to move with me to my friends house (we both were to sleep there, which was already planned before the evening).
On the way i kissed her. Moved slowly in taking my faces inches from hers, waiting, but she rushed into a kiss (this happens to me a lot by the way and it sometimes ruins the kiss). I teased her by moving away, coming back and so forth.

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Once at my friends house, we quickly got to bed where i started kissing her more in a sensual way, taking care of her whole body. By then she was moaning in a very pleasant manner. When I tried to undress her she’d say « shhh » as to say no, telling me I’m a bad one. Every time I encountered some resistance i backed down for a while, to come back later. As i was teasing her with my hands softly touching her lower stomach, she started teasing me as well and eventually grabed my cock. I told her then she was adventurous and cruel in a playfull tone (trying to get her to want matching this description). I had been needing to pee for a while, and thought that would be a good point to do so, hoping my absence could have her craving for more. When I came back she offered renewed resistance and did not touch my dick again. She asked me if it wouldn't be weird with his brother afterwards. I said no, and tried to get to feel instead of think. The hour was getting early and i felt like time was not on my side. I eventually got her nacked. Feeling she might not agree to sex i started eating her out. I did so twice with a break in between. I guess i did so for about 30 minutes or so. She seemed to enjoy it. After that she still wouldn’t agree to sex. So i just went to sleep (by then it was probably around 7am).
During the whole thing she’d say « no, don’t » or « shhhhh » in a tone as if she were saying « oh, yes, please go on » and would grab my hand and let me work her clit, or kiss me further. This is the first time i encounter resistance in this manner.

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She slept naked in the bed. In the morning when she stood up, i asked her whether she had slept well, she asked me back, and off she went. I was left wondering whether she was happy, pissed, embarassed, just hungover or a mix of those.


I’m in a bad place emotionnaly right now. I feel bad for trying to skrew a friend’s sister. I feel bad for having been somewhat pushy with her, and wonder what she’ll tell her brother (my friend). (In addition to that I guess the excessive alcohol consumption yesterday doesn’t help me feeling good.)
On the other hand I’m kinda satisfied I went the « risky » way where stuff happens, instead of just naying the whole thing by hiding behind the fact that she’s my friend’s sister. Plus I think there was genuine interest on her side.

I have two questions :
How could i have proceeded to make the sex happen ?
As I’m sure it’s happened to you guys as well, what did you learn of your experiences feeling like a pure asshole (in the bad way) the morning after ? How to process these thoughts and what to make of them ?

I’d like to thank you Chase, and all the other authors who have initiated for me the journey of becoming a better man.

Happy new year
Nojas

 

[Marty]

Re: [LR-] Friend's sister

I’m in a bad place emotionnaly right now. I feel bad for trying to skrew a friend’s sister.

I see nothing to feel bad about here, except perhaps not going the whole way with her and giving her what she probably wanted. You did great

There's something deliciously "naughty" about seducing a friend's sister that heightens the emotions involved... perhaps you can close the deal down the road, good luck!

 

[Verisimilitude]

Re: [LR-] Friend's sister

Well if he really hinted like you said he did and pushed her on you, then that's on him not on you. And if she's naked in front of you, she probably wants to have sex. Obviously, don't rape a girl. But I think you could have gotten sex if you had tried. She was worried that sleeping with her brother's friend would be bad and you didn't re-frame it right. She's probably had a crush on you for a while and wanted to make her move. I don't think you were pushy. Just have to work on overcoming last minute resistance.

 

[Motiv]

Re: [LR-] Friend's sister

Welcome, Nojas!

Although I am a beginner myself, I have been helped significantly by this site and the members of this board, which has so far lead me to some great lays and many dates, so I am eager to give back where I think I can.

I’m in a bad place emotionnaly right now. I feel bad for trying to skrew a friend’s sister. I feel bad for having been somewhat pushy with her, and wonder what she’ll tell her brother (my friend). (In addition to that I guess the excessive alcohol consumption yesterday doesn’t help me feeling good.)

In my humble opinion, you are most struggling with your own internal white knight complex. This is the primary strain in my seduction game as well, so I can relate. Things get most awkward between us and a girl if we only manage to half-push but then keep retreating to white knight zone, and this comes off as creepy because the girl feels insecure about who we really are: "is he a sexual man who really wants me? or is he a white knight who will judge me...?"

The best I can say is to reiterate one very important point I have learned from GC: all women truly want sex! However, they do not want sex from a white knight or a flip-flopper. They want it from a man who is decisively sexual and communicates clearly his desire to fulfill her sexual needs. White knights who truly wish to convert to sexual men need to work on adjusting their mindset more than anything else: you have to shed the guilt that your sexuality is something bad. Women sniff that from a mile away, and that will put the kaibosh on any seduction. One element that should help you with that is to think of sex as something you give to her, rather than the other way around (which is typical society think). Your mission is to convince her that her sexual satisfaction as well as social protection (your ability to be discrete) are your top priorities.

On the other hand I’m kinda satisfied I went the « risky » way where stuff happens, instead of just naying the whole thing by hiding behind the fact that she’s my friend’s sister. Plus I think there was genuine interest on her side.
...
She slept naked in the bed.

It looks like you've taken a great step by not naying the whole interaction. I absolutely believe she wanted you to take her completely, but she just couldn't get a clear enough read on what YOU really wanted... and I think you couldn't either. Ultimately, I believe she left feeling ashamed that you didn't really want her. You stepped into unfamiliar territory, and that's naturally nerve-wracking. Whatever happens between you and her, you've gained a learning experience that is necessary for your sexual growth and will let you go further with the next new girl you get close to.

As I’m sure it’s happened to you guys as well, what did you learn of your experiences feeling like a pure asshole (in the bad way) the morning after ? How to process these thoughts and what to make of them ?

I've learned that it is necessary to risk being an asshole in order to understand how to be powerful and decisive. People who chose to be assholes for no reason ultimately fail, but those of us who have been nice guys all our lives need to dabble a little in the dark side in order to break out of our shells. You will lose some potential lovers this way, but that's a necessary price to pay for personal growth and will net you abundance in the end.

Keep at it!

-VP

 

[Nojas]

Re: [LR-] Friend's sister

Thank you for the encouragement. In my immediate social circles, people look at assholes with jealousy and envy, so I don't get quick social validation for being one, quite the contrary. It helps to have your opinion to get some perspective on this.

Thanks for the great piece of advice ViolinPlayer.

In my humble opinion, you are most struggling with your own internal white knight complex. This is the primary strain in my seduction game as well, so I can relate. Things get most awkward between us and a girl if we only manage to half-push but then keep retreating to white knight zone, and this comes off as creepy because the girl feels insecure about who we really are: "is he a sexual man who really wants me? or is he a white knight who will judge me...?"

White knights who truly wish to convert to sexual men need to work on adjusting their mindset more than anything else: you have to shed the guilt that your sexuality is something bad. Women sniff that from a mile away, and that will put the kaibosh on any seduction. One element that should help you with that is to think of sex as something you give to her, rather than the other way around (which is typical society think). Your mission is to convince her that her sexual satisfaction as well as social protection (your ability to be discrete) are your top priorities.

Thanks for the insight, it's very valuable, that's precisely what happened. I'll do better next time.

See you around

Nojas

 

[Rebel]

Re: [LR-] Friend's sister

Think you did okay here. Obviously, you two wanted each other, and your friend seemed to be okay about it.

Sometimes, it just almost impossible to overcome her mental barrier of having sex with a brother's friend. Anyway, ViolinPlayer covered this better than I could've!

Happy New Year.

 

[Motiv]

Re: [LR-] Friend's sister

Thank you for the encouragement. In my immediate social circles, people look at assholes with jealousy and envy, so I don't get quick social validation for being one, quite the contrary. It helps to have your opinion to get some perspective on this.

Thanks for the great piece of advice ViolinPlayer.
...
Thanks for the insight, it's very valuable, that's precisely what happened. I'll do better next time.

See you around

Nojas

Glad I could help! That's what these boards are here for. =)

One point I left out is this: fear of risk. Too little risk aversion and we can end up damaging ourselves, but too much risk aversion and we end up limiting our growth. Since I am now 35, I have personally come to the conclusion that it is worth the social risk to develop traits I have repressed over the past 15 years and unlock others that have become completely dormant. We only live once, and I don't want to see my life tick away into old age without ever having experienced some of the essential passion of human existence.

A second point is this: the necessity of female resistance. As soon as I have the chance to flesh out my New Year's Eve LR, you will see how much resistance I had to persist through before I ultimately took her from behind in her kitchen. The way I understand things now, female resistance is really all about their way of bolstering their SMP and testing us men on how badly we really want them. In the end, resistance actually makes it all that much more thrilling for everyone because it universally provides validation. Too little resistance and we would automatically feel like we didn't achieve much by taking her— just natural human psychology.

The fundamental point is not a question of wether they do or don't want sex— it's whether or not we can convince them we are the right men for the job. Enter the art of seduction.

-VP

P.S. For the more experienced out there, please feel free to step in if any of my points are off.

 

[Marty]

Re: [LR-] Friend's sister

ViolinPlayer:

A second point is this: the necessity of female resistance.

This is one area I really have trouble understanding. Since you seem to grasp it, can you explain it please? Does it apply only to sex, or to all romantic involvement with men? How do you know when it's because she just doesn't fancy you, and when it's because of the other reasons you described?

Thanks
-Marty

 

[Motiv]

Re: [LR-] Friend's sister

ViolinPlayer:

A second point is this: the necessity of female resistance.

This is one area I really have trouble understanding. Since you seem to grasp it, can you explain it please? Does it apply only to sex, or to all romantic involvement with men? How do you know when it's because she just doesn't fancy you, and when it's because of the other reasons you described?

Thanks
-Marty

Hey Marty—

I should have clarified, but as I think about it, I do believe that resistance on all levels is a girl's way of measuring our desire for them and our masculinity— both in sex and all romantic involvement. In my recent lays of the new year, I would practice being smooth by simply backing off unfazed for a little bit when resisted, then getting restarted as if there had been no setback at all— it's never over unless she actually leaves your company! In fact, this zig zag style of escalation gets me more excited myself, so I quite like it. Overcoming resistance means repeating good things, which only makes them want you more each time and reassures them how much you truly want them back. I've salvaged many of my mistakes and awkward moves with patient persistence, and for that I find it helps to be emotionally detached from the interaction. My goal is to engineer her desire for me in any way I can— most women's minds are absolutely changeable!

In the case of my Ms. Serbia, I have come to realize that she is actually a rather conservative girl who uses constant resistance as a madonna front just out of spontaneous habit. I did finally take her to bed at my place again tonight but only after cooking her a full Italian diner, which I rather enjoyed anyway (first time cooking for two...). She had texted me yesterday that attraction and sex are not just physical, so I decided to take her up on the challenge and put on my romance hat to see how things would play out... ding! However, during the meal, she commented that sex was not going to happen... at first I thought, "shit not this again," but then I just smiled slyly ay her and put on my best puckish half-smile, staring right into her lips until she looked down. Then I started clearing the dishes, she started helping me, and I let my hands do the talking after that. I guess with some women the seduction never truly ends, but that's no complaint from me!

Since I am lucky enough to bare some likeness to Daniel Craig, I ask myself how the newest Bond would handle a woman... like the shaving scene from Skyfall— he just starts undoing her buttons like that's what's supposed to happen. She resists with a plausible excuse, and although the scene ended there, I'm sure it was implied that he casually picked up where he left off and they slept together. Ms. Serbia actually criticized me for being too good at knowing how to do all the right things... something that does give me a few mixed feelings morally speaking, but for now, I'm willing to walk the line and/or break a few rules.

Hope this helps!

-VP

 

[Marty]

Re: [LR-] Friend's sister

Hey ViolinPlayer:

I did finally take her to bed at my place again tonight but only after cooking her a full Italian dinner, which I rather enjoyed anyway (first time cooking for two...).

That sounds magnificent, I'd love to do that for a girl. Yeah, I used to do things in my youth like baking cakes for girls before sleeping with them, but that was all a long time ago I think the last time I did something of that sort for a new girl was in 2001. It's a pity. I'd like to get back into it... life's too short not to be spending time alone with new girls on a regular basis

I should have clarified, but as I think about it, I do believe that resistance on all levels is a girl's way of measuring our desire for them and our masculinity— both in sex and all romantic involvement.

Yes, I see what you mean. The problem I face is that there is heaps of material on this forum and the main site about overcoming LMR (to sex), but I've never really regarded that as an issue (maybe because I haven't been adventurous enough in my sex life, admittedly).

The only girl who ever really gave me serious LMR was a lover I took for a few months while at university, back in 1996, when I had a girlfriend at the time. She kept saying things like "I'm not going to have sex with you tonight" when I was at her digs, even though she'd invited me over. After about two occurrences of this she finally gave in and we had a cool affair for about half a year with lots of sex.

She was by far the most narcissistic—as well as possibly one of the stupidest—women I've ever known, but she was amazing in bed and always wore sexy lingerie every day. I think the only reason she gave me LMR was that she was trying to get me to break up with the girlfriend and take her on instead (I did ditch the girl eventually, but I certainly didn't ever contemplate a relationship with my lover).

These days, the problem I face with girls I cold-approach is that they resist any romantic involvement, before we even get anywhere near sex. That's why I'm seeking info on different types of resistance (other than to sex).

You seem to be doing good, ViolinPlayer. I'm impressed by your reports.

Nojas:

Sorry for going off-topic on your thread, kudos to you again for laying a friend's sister, that strikes me as a very, very cool thing to achieve. Wish I had done it, I really do. Once in 2004 I went to the wedding of my old best friend from high-school (by no means my best friend any more by that time). His kid sister, who I hardly remembered as she was just a little girl when we were at school together, came up to me suddenly and shrieked "Marty!!!" and put her arms around me in a big hug and kissed me on the cheek.

I was taken aback for a second, as by this time (maybe 24) she was a real stunner of a young woman, but I think I played it smooth... anyway, as she is kissing me and has her arms around me I see a very good-looking younger guy behind her, glowering at me with an expression like he wants to kill me on the spot.

Turned out it was her husband. I'll never forget that look on his face

-Marty