GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team members?

[Space]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

Let's take for example The Natural Lifestyles guys. I'm not so deeply familiar with their work, but from as much as I observed what they do I concluded that they more or less have the same theoretical background (they don't contradict each other), but the main reason they work as a team is that each team member has a special area of expertise - built on the same background. Such as James Marshall is a laid back, relaxed dude expert in meditation and inner game, while Liam McRae is the guy for fast escalation and kino escalation. (Or he was and he is moving in his own direction; I don't follow them so closely.)

What is your stance, team Girls Chase on core psychological concepts as:

Should you rate girls on a 10-scale or not? I consider it as a core inner game issue.

Should you write field reports of your encounters or not? Similarly, and agreeing to Chase, I consider it as a core inner game issue.

Speaking of the latter, field reports. Sure, you should take some notes at least for yourself on any hobby or enterprise you are into. Speaking for myself, if I had to write such long and elaborated essays as I'm suggested by Big Daddy,I could only do so by taking time off actually going out and meeting girls, which is kind of counter-productive. I'm taking notes for myself, I discover patterns. When I discovered a common pattern I post about that pattern here, no one answers, so I answer my own question.

Back to Chase' article: Why to Throw Out the 1-to-10 Scale for Rating Women. Chase argues that you should ditch the 10-scale and that you should ditch field reports, too. Franco argues in our discussion that at least he doesn't ditch field reports because he is advanced. Fair enough. I see it's reasonable if say, Chase and Franco disagrees on this, what I think a fundamental, inner game topic privately or in a private, super advanced couching group to which only a handful, super advanced guys subscribe to anyway.

According to the Pareto principle, this open forum should have most its readers and contributors coming from less of the super advanced level and more like the newbie to average level, so having these core disagreements between team members running through this whole forum, in my opinion don't help the cause of teaching guys getting better with girls, not to be confused. My 2 cents.

Back to field reports again. I haven't found any article besides the above, Why to Throw Out the 1-to-10 Scale for Rating Women Chase article discussing their pros and cons. And this article advised against them. Still, we have a full section of this forum dedicated to field reports. Isn't that confusing in itself?

I've said it elsewhere, but as you want to redesign this forum, if it were up to me, the sections would be some kind of a mix between Roosh's forum and the current Girls Chase forum. I find it strange that Roosh's forum doesn't have a section for sex like this forum has, but on the positive site, they have a lively community around marriage, family, kids, the whole deal with real guys in that life situation. I find it similarly strange that even though the only article I find here about field reports, by the boss, Chase himself, advises against writing field reports, still there is such a section of the forum where I'm constantly nagged to write to by multiple forum members. On the other hand, when I notice a pattern in my approaches and write them not as filed reports but as a theme and I post about them, then I am the only one addressing my own question.

I've noticed noticeably different ideas in your library of articles on a range of topics by various authors as well, not only here in the forum. But this one is a good starting point.

 

[Franco]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

Back to Chase' article: Why to Throw Out the 1-to-10 Scale for Rating Women. Chase argues that you should ditch the 10-scale and that you should ditch field reports, too.

He never said to ditch Field Reports, at least from what I could see. If you re-read the "Rating into Oblivion" section again--and the name should clue you in on what the real point of that section was--you'll see that he experimented with writing and not writing field reports to see how it affected his results. Ultimately, he realized the Field Reports had (almost) nothing to do with it, but the "rating scale" was the main culprit:

I took to only ever writing field reports about girls I wasn't all that excited about meeting, to avoid building a girl I was impressed with into even greater proportions. In fact, if I met a girl I really liked, I wouldn't even think about her, or mention her to anybody else. I'd just forget about her until I had her on a date again.

Once again, my efficacy at getting girls in bed went up.

But I soon realized there was another factor at play, as well: every time I broke out the 1-to-10 scale for rating women, I took away all a girl's complexity, and all of my complexity, and reduced her and I to simple numbers in a hierarchy. 6s were below me, and thus child's play to bed if I wanted to. 7s and 8s were roughly the same level as me... I was netting 7s and 8s on my photos when I put them out for ratings in those days. Women in this range were neither terribly easy nor terribly difficult. 9s were a challenge, though. And 10s? Good luck.

However, what this ignored was that there's a lot more to women's behavior than where a guy puts them on a looks scale - but if you start treating a girl like a goddess, because you think she is, she will pick up on it, and act accordingly... or, at the very least, you will panic, choke, or second-guess yourself right into rejection.

Is Chase still advocating to remove the rating scale though? Yes, it seems like it. But from what I gather from this snippet (and that entire section of the article as a whole), the rating system was the true culprit behind his lack of success with more attractive women and the field reports were only a side effect/symptom of that problem. That being said, you can definitely write field reports without using the rating system for the interaction and the girl you are writing about.

Anyway, moral of the story is: field reports are an excellent way to track your progress while also allowing others to analyze your interactions when you are hitting a sticking point over and over again with women. Some guys (like myself) are quite good at figuring out their own sticking points and thus don't need to use field reports quite as often (or at all, like in my case). Other guys on this forum have used field reports as a great tool to track their progress and get feedback from more experienced members. The value you get out of a field report will vary based on your own abilities and experience.

I hope this clears things up.

- Franco

 

[ThePhoenix]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

 
I just want to add a couple quick thoughts to what Franco has said, based on my own experience. Field Reports — not rating scale, which I agree is too simplistic, shallow and formulaic — can be helpful for some additional reasons:

1. Better self-analysis: I find that when I have to coherently relate things to other people, in the process of editing my writing to be sensible to another person, I often solidify ideas or observations in my own mind. This is true not just in seduction but in any domain. Very often I solve my own problems just by writing them up.
   
   
2. Quality vs. quantity: Yes, you do spend some time you could have been using to meet more women. And yes, meeting women in volume is important to pick up on patterns. But thereʼs a balance. I always say that an ounce of intelligent practice is worth a pound of mindless practice. If you maximize the learning from every experience, you donʼt need as many experiences. I actually have started to see success after far fewer interactions than many guys do, and I think itʼs in part because Iʼm very analytical and try to extract the maximum learning from any experience.
   
   
3. Helping others: Field Reports are not just valuable to the person writing them. I personally have gained a lot by reading the Field Reports of others, both good and bad. It is one thing to have Chase or Hector or Roosh or whoever write an article summing up their experiences into a general paradigm or methodology — and this is valuable, — but itʼs another thing to actually see the nitty‑gritty of someone applying or misapplying this in real world scenarios and what the outcomes were. It legitimizes and reinforces the advice and also helps you recognize more specific patterns that the articles may have missed (one guy can only write so much) and which it would have taken you many interactions on your own in order to observe.

BTW, Space, donʼt take this the wrong way, but it seems that you invest tons of energy into philosophical debates and comparisons about seduction communities that I think would serve you better by being redirected into just picking a methodology you feel might work for you and going out there and trying to get results with it. Youʼre being a bit like the board game player who sits on his turn with a pained look on his face endlessly churning around in his mind what his strategy should be instead of just making a move already, lol. I think thatʼs partly why the seasoned guys have bugged you to write FRs.

Phoenix

 

[Chase]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

I constantly tell guys to write field reports.

The only thing I said about field reports in that article was that I realized I was psyching myself out by spending 30 minutes writing about my encounter meeting a girl I was excited about before I'd bedded her. I'd put a lot of my pressure on myself doing that, then often blow it.

So instead I just wouldn't write a field report on her until after I'd slept with her. Then I could write the report.

Meanwhile, if there was no girl I was floored with and I wanted to write a report, I'd just write it.

I would never, never, never tell guys to stop writing field reports entirely.

What terrible advice that would be.

You can get good without them. And you certainly don't have to write everything down.

But field reports are a phenomenal tool for walking through interactions you've had and putting them under a microscope.

Really great, excellent, vital tools. Any guy who's serious about making significant progress with women in as short a time as possible should invest the time it takes to write some.

Chase

 

[Ambiance]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

I'd add that they're a lot of fun to come back to. Personally I love rereading my LRs, and even my FRs and Lr-s. Makes me very, very proud. And motivated.

 

[Space]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

Chase-

I know I should sometime type in what's on my mind since forever on this one. This slow forum is still too fast to me.

 

[Space]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

Staff member Grand Pooba/Varoon wrote in the topic We need an article on how to follow up a flake:

Great topic; will write.

Wait a minute! Isn't that whole topic full of the scarcity mentality? Isn't the premise of the whole site Girls Chase, that girls should chase you, not the other way around? In other words, isn't this site supposed to be about abundance? Or is it just marketing and it doesn't mean that much? OK, never mind. I see lots and lots of contradictory advice and messages communicated here by staff/official marketing.

Speaking of girls chasing you. The other day I've watched some presentation by veteran pickup guy Brent Smith. His presentation was literally titled: You Never Have to Chase Women Again. If someone, then he can legitimately call his presentation such (without sounding like a copycat of this site): He is much older than Chase. High level stuff, worth watching.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

Space dude! Everything is about the scarcity mentality and trying to create abundance. The answer is always meet more girls and don't get caught up focusing on one. There's a lot of contradictions with this, insist on your persistence, ball in her court, reengaging and how to get your ex back. All of this caves into scarcity. Despite this they're all valuable tools and will assist with learning.

Another core believe is assume attraction. If we're assuming attraction a rejection isn't a no it's a not yet. It's a chance to sell yourself more. This attitude shows ya confident which is another principle to work on. Following up a flake isn't always chasing sometimes it's offering girls reassurance when they need it and socially saving their blushes. They cancel but they like ya, awkwardly they don't give an alternative. If ya don't follow up ya can miss out on something ya want.

Am always an advocate of moving on an finding a girl more interested but with this have next girls potentially to early. Yah this keeps my value up but if these girls don't come back an some won't cause they feel guys need to ask then a miss out. A don't gain anything from keeping ma value up. Persisting a little longer could have gave me more experience.

Am actually interested in reading varoons article an currently using ma own process to deal with a flake. It looks like a have turned it around for now! Last year a wouldn't have persisted, a would have next her an never got this reference point or experience.

The process I have followed is already on GC by simply selecting parts of articles for different situations. Even the text guide an date guides suggest asking 3 times before letting it go. Okay it's not exactly abundance, but the girl was interested enough to agree to a date an give ya her number. If ya don't follow it up ya either have total abundance, which a lot of guys don't have or ya not assuming attraction or being confident enough to follow up.

That was me, a would accept the first no an move on an now opting to persist. It might get me nowhere but from a development point of view a have nothing to lose an everything to gain from it. Not a bad trade for experience until I get the level of success I want.

Wouldn't ya rather have fire fighting tools an not need them than messing up an wishing ya had something? It's another philosophy an view point. Ya don't have to follow up if that's ya mentality. A never used to. Just do what works for you dude!

 

[Space]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

Flux-

There's a lot of contradictions with this

That's for sure. And you know what? You still haven't convinced me. And that's OK.

The funny thing is, I live in a city with more than a million people and still bump into the same people over and over again. Case in point, I've just met a nice girl by accident I've originally met more than 6 months ago. The first time we just briefly introduced to each other as I had to catch my public transport, she was with a boy (whether boyfriend or not), and I was much more like a beginner than now. But now it's different. You see where I'm coming from?

That was me, a would accept the first no an move on an now opting to persist. It might get me nowhere but from a development point of view a have nothing to lose an everything to gain from it.

According to the abundance mentality if we are going deep into it, like the way Brent Smith in the video advocates it by nexting this particular girl you attract a better prospect into your life by her simply showing up in your life like appearing next to you on the sidewalk like magic or something. From a development point of view? That can be a separate debate whether pickup is personal development or not. But let's say going full abundance or clinging just a little to the scarcity mentality will make you develop in different directions.

Wouldn't ya rather have fire fighting tools an not need them than messing up an wishing ya had something?

As long as meeting girls is like firefighting to you. For me it isn't.

 

[Space]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

Chase-

Let's get into this!

I constantly tell guys to write field reports.

Okay. But searching for such an information on the whole site yields zero results. Except for this forum post now. I just wonder wheter in the 10-year history of Girls Chase is it the first time you put this thought into writing? In an odd forum post where more people looking for the information won't find it anyway. I know, I know. You are working on cleaning up the whole site and it takes time.

The only thing I said about field reports in that article was that I realized I was psyching myself out by spending 30 minutes writing about my encounter meeting a girl I was excited about before I'd bedded her. I'd put a lot of my pressure on myself doing that, then often blow it.

Previously you told me it's perfectly fine to approach only girls I show interest in. I would find the opposite kind of counterproductive too. After all, one article I can strongly relate to and keep referencing here over and over again is the Fuck Yes or No article by Mark Manson.

Besides, I just wrote one post above about my situation that I keep bumping the same people over and over again in a city of more than a million people. And not only in the mall and at night and on public transport, but in completely random places and situations, too. If I'm interested in them (I only approach if I show interest) and it didn't escalate to the point to write the LR, then I shouldn't write the less than LR FR according to your thinking (and my thinking too).

So instead I just wouldn't write a field report on her until after I'd slept with her. Then I could write the report.

This translate to only write LRs, no FRs, FR+es or FUs. Which contradicts the fact that the Field Reports section is full of, and actively encourages the writing of all sorts of field reports, not only LRs. If you were a strong boss to your staff(?) you would imply strict rules - for the benefit of the students/forum members, so they don't get contradictory information from various members of your team and sections of the site.

I mean, just compare the posts and problems (and the answers, or the lack of quality, satisfying answers) most people have here vs. on Roosh's forum. I see no surprise quite a few people (especially newbies) are super confused here. At least this is how I see it. Please also see the part under This doesn't directly relate to your issue I wrote under Poli's case!

Any guy who's serious about making significant progress with women in as short a time as possible should invest the time it takes to write some.

That's fine. But speaking for myself, I'm exactly NOT in that life situation right now.

 

[Mr.Rob]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

Still kooking it huh Space?

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

Space dude! I didn't expect or try to convince ya, just provide a different view an angle. Ya right going full abundance or persistence will make ya develop in different directions. How ya handle a girl that flakes is entirely your call. If I nexted this particular girl I might attract a better prospect, a might not. It took 3 extra texts to convert it so it wasn't a bad investment this time round.

I see where ya coming from with bumping into the same people. I'll occasionally bump into some girls where some I will never see again. I don't live in a big population town, so running into the same people is typical. A was out this weekend and 4 ex lovers were out in the same venue... though this is rare. Though a was curious about a month ago about the ratio this particular night when there were very few girls that interested me (just 3) there were only 15 girls out to about 60 guys....

Meeting girls isn't like fire fighting to me, but a have made my fair share of mistakes with girls. Realising how shallow the pool can be has me currently thinking working on following up flakes or trying to over come some hurdles smoothly early on can provide a lot more reference points an experience.

Knowing that a girl's non receptiveness is the Male non approach is another reason to persist. It's not abundance mentally but ya provide them a second chance. This is the only grounds they would warrant a second chance. It also carries on from the view of stay in interactions for as long as you can when ya first start rather than running away when things get awkward...

 

[Space]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

Flux-

I've wrote it somewhere I can't find now, but yeah. A transcriber from Flux to high English would definitely help me enjoying your posts more. I don't want to ask you anything too personal. I'm not sure if you have to deal with high English in writing in your daily life such as for school or work. You said you are from the UK. Then why does it make sense to you to put so much effort to write ghetto English just to entertain us? The language of the forum is English. It's not ghetto English. It means everyone is supposed to write plain English according to his best abilities as not everyone is a native speaker. It shouldn't be hard for someone British/from Britain, is it?

If you are making so much effort to transcribe your words to ghetto English people like me will just get less out of your thoughts, so it's kind of wasting your valuable human resources as well. I'm sorry to say it.

 

[naturalmikey]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

just because two opinions are contradictory don't mean they're not both correct at different given times for different people. i was thinking today about starting to write field reports. when i was consistently pulling 2+ times a week on 3-4 times going out I was writing field reports regularly. i also had such a large rotation at that time. i don't even really know how i did it. anyway writing field reports maybe made a 1% difference and that was enough for a large boost. writing a lay report is one of the best feelings. come to think of it i was only writing lay reports. it was on the rsd forum. actually just used the way back machine and found some of my field reports so i'm gonna post them. in that section. because i wanna have them. you should check them out. it's from when i first got good.

 

[naturalmikey]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

hey space i noticed in one of your posts you talk about sixty years of challenge. do you know where i could find his content. i consider it the one missing piece.

 

[Space]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

just because two opinions are contradictory don't mean they're not both correct at different given times for different people.

OK, I see that now this forum is the precursor of www.SkilledSeducer.com, which is a little more removed from Girls Chase and we are almost there. But when I signed up here almost a year ago my idea was that this would be a tight ship run mostly on Chase's ideas. The fact that Girls Chase staff writers just whatever contradicting each other personally doesn't help me much. Fair enough, maybe I should look out for a different kind, more tightly run community around principles I could stand behind. The loose ship approach that www.SkilledSeducer.com is supposed to become removed from Girls Chase has its merits as well, but that's not what I was signed up for a year ago. At least that wasn't my intention.

i was thinking today about starting to write field reports. when i was consistently pulling 2+ times a week on 3-4 times going out I was writing field reports regularly. i also had such a large rotation at that time. i don't even really know how i did it. anyway writing field reports maybe made a 1% difference and that was enough for a large boost. writing a lay report is one of the best feelings. come to think of it i was only writing lay reports.

I can identify with this person's sentiment. The relevant part is between 5:11 and 5:31.

because i wanna have them. you should check them out.

You will laugh but I have the first worldest of first world problems. I really hate reading on the computer's screen, content consumption isn't why Steve Jobs "invented" the iPhone and the iPad roughly a decade ago? As this forum is finally almost there a decade later, I can wait that little more. I've already bookmarked stuff here to read when the forum finally goes mobile.

 

[Space]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

hey space i noticed in one of your posts you talk about sixty years of challenge. do you know where i could find his content. i consider it the one missing piece.

www.60yearsofchallenge.com

On r/seduction, Looking for different influences other than RSD:

60 Years of Challenge ebooks (some of the best outer game material I've ever worked with. I'm only thru a fraction of his ebook collection and already my game has skyrocketed. Warning though, his website is atrocious, and if you order his ebooks you have to email the guy to take you off of a subscription service he signs you up for. If this guy was more tech savvy and was better at marketing, he'd be at the top of everyone's list)

60 has a profile on the NextASF forum. Maybe someone could invite him over here? Maybe we could give him some tips on how to sell himself in this day and age as a community.

 

[Franco]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

Space,

The fact that Girls Chase staff writers just whatever contradicting each other personally doesn't help me much. Fair enough, maybe I should look out for a different kind, more tightly run community around principles I could stand behind. The loose ship approach that http://www.SkilledSeducer.com is supposed to become removed from Girls Chase has its merits as well, but that's not what I was signed up for a year ago. At least that wasn't my intention.

The idea behind having multiple writers is to give multiple perspectives on a subject that is very broad and has multiple approaches (game, women, and relationships) so that readers can choose the authors whose writing resonates the most with them.

All of the guys that Chase brings onto the team have proven experience with women, so the fact that there are some conflicting views just goes to show how many ways there are to be successful with women. Different guys bring different vibes, approaches, and experiences. What may work for one guy may not work for another. And vice versa.

If you like Chase's content the most but don't like writer X or Y, then just read Chase's articles and implement only his mindsets and tactics if they resonate the most with you. Or you can start with Chase's ideas and then delve more into writers X and Y's content if you feel like you've learned a lot since you started here, and now maybe their content makes sense with more information.

Bringing on multiple writers who have exactly the same views and tactics as Chase would be a fruitless effort, would it not? I don't think Chase wants to pay writers to write exactly what he plans on writing himself (or has written in the past)!

Cheers,

Franco

 

[Sub-Zero]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

Space,

The fact that Girls Chase staff writers just whatever contradicting each other personally doesn't help me much. Fair enough, maybe I should look out for a different kind, more tightly run community around principles I could stand behind. The loose ship approach that http://www.SkilledSeducer.com is supposed to become removed from Girls Chase has its merits as well, but that's not what I was signed up for a year ago. At least that wasn't my intention.

The idea behind having multiple writers is to give multiple perspectives on a subject that is very broad and has multiple approaches (game, women, and relationships) so that readers can choose the authors whose writing resonates the most with them.

All of the guys that Chase brings onto the team have proven experience with women, so the fact that there are some conflicting views just goes to show how many ways there are to be successful with women. Different guys bring different vibes, approaches, and experiences. What may work for one guy may not work for another. And vice versa.

If you like Chase's content the most but don't like writer X or Y, then just read Chase's articles and implement only his mindsets and tactics if they resonate the most with you. Or you can start with Chase's ideas and then delve more into writers X and Y's content if you feel like you've learned a lot since you started here, and now maybe their content makes sense with more information.

Bringing on multiple writers who have exactly the same views and tactics as Chase would be a fruitless effort, would it not? I don't think Chase wants to pay writers to write exactly what he plans on writing himself (or has written in the past)!

Cheers,

Franco

I agree that it is good to have other perspectives on the site, but they need to be addressed better.

If someone is reading the site and just reads articles, he will get confused because he heard one thing from one author then another thing from another one, then he doesn’t know what he should do.

There should be some kind of disclaimer or something to let readers know.

Because there were times where I would see things that would conflict with chase’s advice and then I’d be like, “he’s doing something totally different than what this site says”.

But as time went on I realized that it was just different opinions and you have to see what works for you.

But what if you like two things that conflict between two authors? What do you choose to do and follow?

There was one time where conflicts were addressed, and it was an article where Chase says that calling girls are still in style. In the article he said that he feels they work, but others have disagreed, but he recommends it.

So it makes sense to say that, that way readers don’t think chase is behind on game or that other writers are giving out game chase doesn’t agree with.

At the end of the day, there are different styles and you have to find out what works for you, but there should be a better way to explain you can get results even though you did something different.

There’s times where I thought I messed up big time because I did something that someone else said to not to, but I found out that someone else did what I did, so maybe I wasn’t wrong. Idk too much to think about.

I just pick what I like and do my thing.

 

[metalbird]

Re: GC team: As individuals do you give contradictory advice to other team membe

Space,

"For every piece of advice or argument to some effect, there is an equal and opposite piece of advice or argument to the opposite effect"

I've found this to be true not just here, but broadly in every zone of life. I don't want to get into speculating as to why this is, but I'm sure it has a lot to do with the way humans think about things and the way society is set up to propagate learning/information.

Realizing this fact was very disheartening for me at first. I always loved learning. I used to treat life like a research project: Put in the thought, the planning, be persistent in learning, and you can figure almost anything out. So coming to the realization that that's NOT how life works was tough. But the truth is, every person at some point in their journey reaches a point where you realize that the common advice thrown around in the outside world has nothing more to offer you. So you go out in search of ever higher, more specialized mentors; people who have accomplished the things you someday wish to, who emulate the values you believe in, etc. But even then, you realize that their lives and stories are not the same as yours, and what worked for them might not work for you.

What's the real take away from all of this? There's only one piece of "advice" that has stayed true through out my entire life, and it's both entirely obvious and unhelpful: "Do what works. Don't do what doesn't work." Try not to get stuck, do your best, but realize that so much of life is outside of our control. Best of luck man.