FU Girl Wanted Sex But Had Continuous LMR

[TSRaven]

I went on a coffee date with a girl from Hinge. The date went well (flirting, strong eye contact, sexual intent was shown by both parties, kino, etc).
Within the first 20 minutes of the date, she was already asking where I lived and if I lived by myself.
Fast forward to the end of the coffee date, she asked me what I was doing afterwards (beat me to the punch lol). I told her I was going to chillout and watch some TV/Netflix. I asked if she had any plans later and invited her to join me, she mentioned that she had some errands to run later, but she would hangout for a bit.

Once we get to my place, I give her a tour of my place (she was hesitant to check out my bedroom). We sat on the couch in the living room and watched TV. We talked for a bit during the show and started kissing for a bit then went back to watching TV. A few minutes later we'd kiss some more and I would try to escalate a bit more but was met with some resistance (no big deal). We go back to watching TV and talking for a bit. Again I try to escalate (kissing, hand on her tits, kissing her neck, etc), still more resistance.

This goes on for a while where we're kissing, but no progress is being made. She still had on her jacket and wouldn't take off any of her clothes. Sometimes she would let me grab her tits and touch her pussy (over the pants) and then she would move my hand. When I started kissing her neck she started to get really turned on and started biting my neck. At times we would be cuddled up on the couch and she would have her legs wrapped around my leg. She mentioned that I made her feel hot & bothered (in a good way ofc).

When we were talking throughout the above failed escalations, she said a couple things that stuck out throughout our time at my place. She mentioned at one point that it felt like I was staring into her soul (not sure if that's a good thing in this instance - she said it at the coffee shop earlier as she started blushing).
She started asking me sex-related questions (How was I in bed? Was I more passionate or more aggressive? <- Which I responded by saying I'm passionate but can be aggressive when I need to be). I followed this up by telling her that I bet she liked her hair pulled and to be spanked (Which she agreed).
I'm getting the vibe that she wants to have sex, especially after the topic of sex was brought up like that by HER.
One major thing she said at one point was that I looked at her like I wanted to eat her (I'm not sure when this was specifically - Pretty sure that's not a good thing).

Most of the verbal resistance I got was "I don't sleep with guys on the first date." "I'm trying to be a good girl." "I don't usually mess around with a guy I just met."
I tried to reframe her objections (Being bad is fun; Are you not the spontaneous type; etc). She responded by saying that I was trying to seduce her.
After a while, I had asked her what was up to see what was going on and that it seemed like she wanted to have sex, but was hesitant. I told her that I didn't want to do anything that would make her feel uncomfortable and that we were two adults that are enjoying each others' company. She said that she did want to sleep with me, but that she doesn't sleep with guys on the first date (again smh). Not sure what I said/did afterwards (I think we went back to watching TV).

She mentioned that she had to leave soon. We kissed some more and AGAIN she started getting turned on when I started kissing her neck & spanking her. Again she stopped got up and said that she had to leave.
I walked her to her car and we kissed some more before she got in the car. I told her to text me when she got home (which she did & mentioned that she had fun).

My apologies if this story is all over the place. I'm a bit confused as to how everything she was doing pointed to her wanting to sleep with me, but yet she gives so much resistance. This seems to be an issue with girls that I'm really attracted to (once we get back to my place) and it's becoming a very frustrating issue. This was never an issue with girls that I've settled for in the past.

Was it her ASD or did she just not feel comfortable enough to do so? Also, how would I go about this to setup a second meetup possibly? Open to your thoughts and opinions.

 

[rockstar]

I can't tell you exactly the issue for sure here, but maybe some of this will be helpful. The way you described the coffee date sounds like there was a very good chance of you getting laid.

We sat on the couch in the living room and watched TV.

I think actually just sitting and watching something is not a good vibe for getting laid. What's the point of turning the TV on instead of continuing where you left off from the date?

She started asking me sex-related questions

I would have dove headfirst into sex talk at this point. It sounds like you did at least a little, but you probably could have escalated as much as you wanted verbally without running into resistance here. The cold reads are good, but you can bust out a lot of sexual dhv-type stuff. I understand just assuming it's on in this case, but if you can get her so horny she's escalating on you , then you aren't gonna get rejected.

She was qualifying you sexually, but were you qualifying her? It's better if you're the one driving and leading these conversations, even if she brings it up. You want her to feel like you're evaluating her in general, and getting her to chase more and being a little less attainable l might have been a solution.

Most of the verbal resistance I got was "I don't sleep with guys on the first date." "I'm trying to be a good girl." "I don't usually mess around with a guy I just met."
I tried to reframe her objections (Being bad is fun; Are you not the spontaneous type; etc). She responded by saying that I was trying to seduce her.

These frames are pretty weak here imo. You can see by her response that she felt too much like you were trying to convince her (relates to the above point). But this girl was trying to get pulled and bringing up sex, so I don't think this was a "real" issue that you needed to address anyway. I would have just blown off those responses "Yeah, I need at least 10 dates and a promise ring before you're getting these pants off, don't get any ideas" or "Of course you are. You'd never want me to...{descriptive dirty talk sequence with a lot of sexual tension}". But I wasn't there, and this can really depend on the vibe/moment.

Either way, I wouldn't have let her leave without at least trying to get her to tell why she's saying she wants to wait. Even though it's probably useless here, because

Also, how would I go about this to setup a second meetup possibly?

Good luck with that! Pulling a girl, escalating, and getting rejected is a good recipe for never seeing the girl again. Whenever I pull a girl and escalate, I push it as far as I can. Bc you're not getting a second chance 9/10 times (at least for online/cold approach)

Anyway, I'm not an expert on getting through LMR. This is how most of my dates fail too. (I close at least 2/3 dates, but most of the rest end in lmr). It's possible that you could have gotten through with just better fundamentals, looks, value, similarity, or investment. Or attainability.

 

[Conquistador]

The impression I’m getting is that too much of the escalation was purely physical and she wasn’t ready even if she wanted it in principle. And your communication seems kind of surface-level.
Her verbal ASD was probably due to the same sort of thing.

 

[TSRaven]

I think actually just sitting and watching something is not a good vibe for getting laid. What's the point of turning the TV on instead of continuing where you left off from the date?

I thought that you were supposed to let her get comfortable at your spot first then escalate. Should I have taken her straight to my room?
This is where things have been falling apart whenever I pull a girl back to my place. I'm not sure whether I should play it cool or be more aggressive here (ie a back massage). Verbal escalation is something I struggle with. Is there a link to something that could help me grasp that a bit better?

I would have dove headfirst into sex talk at this point. It sounds like you did at least a little, but you probably could have escalated as much as you wanted verbally without running into resistance here. The cold reads are good, but you can bust out a lot of sexual dhv-type stuff. I understand just assuming it's on in this case, but if you can get her so horny she's escalating on you , then you aren't gonna get rejected.

So here I should've baited her into escalating basically (while still kinda playing hard to get)?

She was qualifying you sexually, but were you qualifying her? It's better if you're the one driving and leading these conversations, even if she brings it up. You want her to feel like you're evaluating her in general, and getting her to chase more and being a little less attainable l might have been a solution.

I did cold reads, but I didn't qualify her sexually.

These frames are pretty weak here imo. You can see by her response that she felt too much like you were trying to convince her (relates to the above point). But this girl was trying to get pulled and bringing up sex, so I don't think this was a "real" issue that you needed to address anyway. I would have just blown off those responses "Yeah, I need at least 10 dates and a promise ring before you're getting these pants off, don't get any ideas" or "Of course you are. You'd never want me to...{descriptive dirty talk sequence with a lot of sexual tension}". But I wasn't there, and this can really depend on the vibe/moment.

The only objection/resistance that I've been good at handling is "We're not having sex." I tend to get stuck in my head and get tripped up by most other objections and struggle to respond properly and ultimately fumble easy opportunities to get laid.<- This is due to the fact that I'm not usually in a position where I've pulled a girl home (just broke a 2 month dry-spell the night before with someone I'd already slept with in the past). In the rare cases where I do get laid, I get no resistance whatsoever.

It's possible that you could have gotten through with just better fundamentals, looks, value, similarity, or investment. Or attainability.

I would say in this case, that it was more of an attainability issue. Her body language was saying that she wanted it, I just suck at overcoming LMR. Like you said, it felt more like I was convincing her to sleep with me.

The impression I’m getting is that too much of the escalation was purely physical and she wasn’t ready even if she wanted it in principle. And your communication seems kind of surface-level.
Her verbal ASD was probably due to the same sort of thing.

I'm a bit confused by what you mean by my communication being surface-level.

 

[TomInHo]

Interesting.

This may seem random but do you live alone and in very nice apartment?

 

[TSRaven]

Interesting.

This may seem random but do you live alone and in very nice apartment?

Yes I do.

 

[rockstar]

I thought that you were supposed to let her get comfortable at your spot first then escalate. Should I have taken her straight to my room?

Depends on the girl. If the girl is really tense and nervous and putting space between you after entering your place, then yeah, give her space. Some girls are nervous you might be too pushy/forceful (many girls have had bad experiences after going home with a guy).

But if she's comfortable, there's no reason to wait. There's nothing wrong with talking to her for 10-30 minutes first either. I wouldn't go immediately into escalating unless you're confident you won't get resistance. I often spend an hour-ish talking to a girl at my place after pulling. But I'm still talking to her. I'm still building investment and engaging her.

This is where things have been falling apart whenever I pull a girl back to my place. I'm not sure whether I should play it cool or be more aggressive here (ie a back massage). Verbal escalation is something I struggle with. Is there a link to something that could help me grasp that a bit better?

Massage is a great escalation tool. Almost magical how you can sometimes turn a girl who rejects a kiss into rubbing her pussy with massages.

For verbal escalation, Alek Rolstad (Teevster) has a lot of articles on GC about this. (The way he phrases specific lines doesn't resonate with me, but his overall approach is similar to things I do). I use dhv stories about past sexual experiences, discussions about things like orgasms, foreplay, the psychological side of sex, bdsm, toys, oral, etc where I let my experience and knowledge show a bit. Get her talking about her experiences, views on sex, likes/dislikes. Sometimes I get girls to qualify themselves on their blowjob skills or submissiveness, or even just kissing/cuddling. You can mix in descriptive dirty talk and sexual tension building into all of this as well.

Essentially, she should be thinking "holy shit, sex with this guy would be amazing. I hope he fucks me"

So here I should've baited her into escalating basically (while still kinda playing hard to get)?

Yeah, I can't tell you what the future would have been if you did this, but it's very possible that would have helped. It's still a balance of course, some girls will be too passively to ever escalate themselves, and you don't want to be too aloof. But qualifying girls is very powerful. Imply you have standards and bait them into proving themselves. Then reward them. Chase frame a little. Be playfully skeptical and challenging. Stuff like that

 

[HoofHearted]

Most of the verbal resistance I got was "I don't sleep with guys on the first date." "I'm trying to be a good girl." "I don't usually mess around with a guy I just met."
I tried to reframe her objections (Being bad is fun; Are you not the spontaneous type; etc). She responded by saying that I was trying to seduce her.

This means good stuff.

My read: you got pretty close and blew it somehow.

IMO there was no need to undress her or stop to talk to her. Both of these things are not things that necessarily arouse her per se, but were a step backwards.

You needed to get to touching her vulva/clit with your hand imo. Why this couldnt or didnt happen, idk.

Sometimes its just a matter of step backward, arouse more/more touch, more persistence etc

Undressing her or stopping to talk is foot off the gas. And I say this believing she wanted it that night.

Some girls do not want it that night. But my pervert sense is tingling, and says this one did.

 

[TSRaven]

But if she's comfortable, there's no reason to wait. There's nothing wrong with talking to her for 10-30 minutes first either. I wouldn't go immediately into escalating unless you're confident you won't get resistance. I often spend an hour-ish talking to a girl at my place after pulling. But I'm still talking to her. I'm still building investment and engaging her.

I usually talk for 10-15 minutes after getting to my place before making a move. Most cases I don't make a move as soon as we get to my place.

For verbal escalation, Alek Rolstad (Teevster) has a lot of articles on GC about this. (The way he phrases specific lines doesn't resonate with me, but his overall approach is similar to things I do). I use dhv stories about past sexual experiences, discussions about things like orgasms, foreplay, the psychological side of sex, bdsm, toys, oral, etc where I let my experience and knowledge show a bit. Get her talking about her experiences, views on sex, likes/dislikes. Sometimes I get girls to qualify themselves on their blowjob skills or submissiveness, or even just kissing/cuddling. You can mix in descriptive dirty talk and sexual tension building into all of this as well.

Essentially, she should be thinking "holy shit, sex with this guy would be amazing. I hope he fucks me"

I had a coffee date in the past where a conversation similar to this came up, in which I did end up sleeping with a girl. This helps a lot!

It's still a balance of course, some girls will be too passively to ever escalate themselves, and you don't want to be too aloof. But qualifying girls is very powerful. Imply you have standards and bait them into proving themselves. Then reward them. Chase frame a little. Be playfully skeptical and challenging. Stuff like that

Noted. I can do that!

This means good stuff.

My read: you got pretty close and blew it somehow.

If that last sentence wasn't the story of my dating life the past 10 yrs lol...

IMO there was no need to undress her or stop to talk to her. Both of these things are not things that necessarily arouse her per se, but were a step backwards.

You needed to get to touching her vulva/clit with your hand imo. Why this couldnt or didnt happen, idk.

Was she supposed to undress herself here (assuming things were going further)? Some of the time we were kissing, she would pull back first, so that's where I figured it was best to talk for a bit and then go back to kissing her. Anytime I tried to rub her pussy, she would grab my hand and move it. My hand rubbing her inner thigh got a little less resistance than on her pussy though.

Undressing her or stopping to talk is foot off the gas. And I say this believing she wanted it that night.

Some girls do not want it that night. But my pervert sense is tingling, and says this one did.

She definitely wanted it. I noticed that she would bite her lip from time to time, while we were kissing. So basically I should have just kept escalating without pulling back (besides the first time we kissed)?

 

[HoofHearted]

So basically I should have just kept escalating without pulling back (besides the first time we kissed)?

Nonono

Generally go a half step back so you can take a full step forward. Go as fast as she will. No faster.

But I'll leave this for the more teachy types to sort out. Again, I don't know, wasn't there, etc. etc.

 

[Rakehell]

Honestly don’t think you did anything wrong per say.

Could nitpick and say you could’ve done better at reframing her objections, but even that wasn’t necessarily detrimental in this context.

Or cutting it shorter yourself once you saw she probably wasn’t gonna budge.

Wouldn’t consider it a fuck up tho, i’d just see what happens next time, if there is one.

 

[TSRaven]

i’d just see what happens next time, if there is one.

I’ll definitely work on reframing things and handling objections next time I’m in that kinda situation. Definitely won’t be a next time with her lol

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Becker says that when you run into a problem at stage 3, it's because something went wrong at stage 2. If you run into issues with stage 2, something went wrong at stage 1. If you can't open a conversation, (the chat lags) something is going wrong in the prep stage.

Whatever the issue is, it's probably the prior stage, not some bad move in the moment. (It can be though, spout off a theory about pineapple on pizza..)

Classical analysis

• I don't see much in terms of getting her to buy into your frame.
• I don't see qualification.
• I don't see any effort to build trust.
• I don't see any attempts to make her the aggressor
• I do see pull back and re-attack.
• I don't see any resets.

Natural Game analysis

• There's not much in terms of emotional transfer. Seems you were both vibing, but she was already ready, until she wasn't.
• And so-called natural game doesn't really break things down into stages

I do see a chick that was hot to trot, but when it comes to put out, now she wants to take it slow. Females love to talk about it, but don't like to back it up.

In general, the harder you try to make things happen at stage 3, the worst it usually gets.

I really think the problem here is that she gave you green light signals, but she got to your place and green went to yellow, and then red.

Was that her?
What that you?
Was that your place?

Had a homie lose a bang because his bed wasn't made. That's the excuse she gave, but it's really about cold feet and lack of bolstering the trust and arousal beforehand.

Green light signals are very confusing for dudes, and if you were a bad guy, that could have ended poorly for her. (These chicks never want to consider what would happen if the guy wasn't a gentleman... It's like some go for villains..).

The best way to play this was to prevent it. Y

That said, to recover in the moment would have been to reset, not just take a breather.

Classic lmr buster stuff that kills the mood can work, but you can never tell if the chick sees you as fuck boy or boyfriend. She might not see it either tbh.

In terms of getting her to come back out - low pressure day time thing, where she can bounce, and run proper trust game.

It's likely that she won't be interested, even if she likes you beyond the physical, because the pressure to have sex will be high.

The other wildcard here is that she is one of those chicks that gets off on bringing out some nonconsensual action out of you. You can screen for this early on by getting safe words and making more "dominant" kino way before you get to the hookup spot.

 

[TSRaven]

Classical analysis

• I don't see much in terms of getting her to buy into your frame.
• I don't see qualification.
• I don't see any effort to build trust.
• I don't see any attempts to make her the aggressor
• I do see pull back and re-attack.
• I don't see any resets.

When she started asking me questions about sex is when I should’ve got her to buy into my frame& make her be the aggressor, correct?

Building trust would’ve been telling her that I respect her and wouldn’t judge her if we had sex or not in this case?

There's not much in terms of emotional transfer. Seems you were both vibing, but she was already ready, until she wasn't.

Sounds like I should’ve pushed things further when she was ready.

I really think the problem here is that she gave you green light signals, but she got to your place and green went to yellow, and then red.

Was that her?
What that you?
Was that your place?

If my place was a mess then I’d understand this one. My place was clean. Not sure if how my living room is setup makes a difference (Couch, TV, pool table, my art on the wall).

Green light signals are very confusing for dudes, and if you were a bad guy, that could have ended poorly for her. (These chicks never want to consider what would happen if the guy wasn't a gentleman... It's like some go for villains..).

The best way to play this was to prevent it. Y

That said, to recover in the moment would have been to reset, not just take a breather.

Preventing it would’ve been by building up trust in this case, right?

That said, to recover in the moment would have been to reset, not just take a breather.

So pull all the way back and just chill & talk?

The other wildcard here is that she is one of those chicks that gets off on bringing out some nonconsensual action out of you. You can screen for this early on by getting safe words and making more "dominant" kino way before you get to the hookup spot.

It was a coffee date and we sat across from each other (I know that’s not ideal positioning). The only kino prior to getting to my place was the initial hug and some hand holding. Most coffee dates when I sit across from a girl, I use my eye contact & flirty banter (sexual innuendos, silent pauses, etc) to compensate for the lack of kino.
What would be dominant kino in this case?

Great breakdown btw!

 

[Beck Bass]

One major thing she said at one point was that I looked at her like I wanted to eat her (I'm not sure when this was specifically - Pretty sure that's not a good thing).

Most of the verbal resistance I got was "I don't sleep with guys on the first date." "I'm trying to be a good girl." "I don't usually mess around with a guy I just met."

Lmao reading this sounds like SHE wanted to eat your cock with her pussy!
Sounds like token resistance, she sounds like a nice girl with not much experience, either that or she was just playing the nice girl because she thinks you're LTR material.
Regardless, you should have escalated more, harder, in a different way, not even sure what, but it was very close, like this girl was almost begging you to fuck her, while throwing random excuses as to why maybe she shouldn't do it...
But yeah, like @Rakehell wrote, I don't think you did anything wrong, it just wasn't quite enough to have sex with her on the first date.

Also, how would I go about this to setup a second meetup possibly? Open to your thoughts and opinions.

Be chill and ask her out again veeery casually, make sure she knows you appreciate her, but like you don't expect sex from her (like don't pressure her or sound too horny/like you just want sex, because she might rethink it, I mean, she'ws gonna reassess the situation regardless, but just don't fuck up your good escalation so far)

 

[TSRaven]

Sounds like token resistance, she sounds like a nice girl with not much experience, either that or she was just playing the nice girl because she thinks you're LTR material.

She definitely wasn’t a nice girl with not much experience lol. Not sure if she thought I was LTR material though.

Be chill and ask her out again veeery casually, make sure she knows you appreciate her, but like you don't expect sex from her (like don't pressure her or sound too horny/like you just want sex, because she might rethink it, I mean, she'ws gonna reassess the situation regardless, but just don't fuck up your good escalation so far)

That ship sailed for sure.