Giving up on persistance once you spot "annoyance" ? But what then?

[lux7]

OK, picture this:

1. A girl feels bad in having sex with you for the first time on this particular occasion, for whatever reason (in my case it was because she felt disgusting of doing it in her period and it was our first meet up, but it might be for other reasons like strong belief of not doing it this time or whatever else)

2. She's enjoying the company and enjoying touching and making out.

3. You keep pushing for sex, but every time you go for a "we're gonna do it" move, like unzipping her pants, you spot a look of disgust on her face

I feel that persisting in these instances is damaging as your touch comes to be seen as "invasive" and unwanted and you as a person come to be seen as a bit untrustworthy for not respecting her feelings.

But it's also not very helpful to completely step back and "be friendly", and I'm not sure how helpful it can be to send her back once obvious sex isn't gonna happen (and not always possible if late and far away from good transportation).


(in my case, I masturbated in the bathroom, then slept in the same bed with sporadic hugging/touching, jury still out on the final result).


Any idea?

 

[lao che]

so it's a girl you haven't yet fucked, and it's the first time with her but she says no because she's on her period. is that correct?

girls love getting fucked when they have their period. she just doesn't know it yet. you have to demonstrate that you don't care about it, make her comfortable with the idea. take her in the shower if she's worried about a mess. but it doesn't matter, sex is meant to be messy.

after that it's just standard procedure. 2 steps forward one step back. don't keep giving her good feels of make-out etc if she's not playing ball.

dominance is also an issue here, i believe.
you're looking to her for approval instead of being certain in your actions, i.e ripping down her pants.
as always, you should have your boner in her hand before you make those kind of moves anyway. either through your pants or outside.

if push comes to shove you just give up. but always give up on your terms.
don't be pissed off about it, but she will feel you are pissed off anyway. this is ok.

after one more "no" i would just look her dead in the eye, quizicle expression, "meh" shrug shoulders slightly and lie down and go to sleep. no big deal. she's probably gonna wake you up by stroking your dick, if not just bang her in the morning, again no big deal

 

[Grand Pooba]

1. A girl feels bad in having sex with you for the first time on this particular occasion, for whatever reason (in my case it was because she felt disgusting of doing it in her period and it was our first meet up, but it might be for other reasons like strong belief of not doing it this time or whatever else)

girls love getting fucked when they have their period. she just doesn't know it yet. you have to demonstrate that you don't care about it, make her comfortable with the idea. take her in the shower if she's worried about a mess. but it doesn't matter, sex is meant to be messy.

You'll meet quite a few women that have never done it on their period, it's not something they experimented through with other guys. So this may be a novel experience. Key in my opinion is to be comfortable, dominant and confident yourself - MAINTAIN YOUR FRAME:

3. You keep pushing for sex, but every time you go for a "we're gonna do it" move, like unzipping her pants, you spot a look of disgust on her face

I feel that persisting in these instances is damaging as your touch comes to be seen as "invasive" and unwanted and you as a person come to be seen as a bit untrustworthy for not respecting her feelings.

Understand that what this really is is a frame battle. Her frame is "having sex on my period is disgusting and weird," and yours is "sex on your period is 1. totally cool with me, and 2. will feel REALLY, REALLY good for you." Handle it like that and treat it like LMR - you're continuing to escalate physically and dominantly, and you have to manage her emotions in the moment. Make her feel so good with your presence, dominance, and touch (everywhere on her body and over her pussy) that she can't say no.

Sometimes what helps is actually giving her a few clitoral orgasms (regardless of whether she's fully naked - maybe your hand in her pants, as you continue to undress her) and then proceed to penetrative vaginal sex.

Also prepare for period sex - have a towel handy and lay it down on the bed, then lay her on top and proceed as normal. Key again is to not make it such a big deal - you're gonna give her an awesome time regardless of her period. That's your frame.

 

[lux7]

You'll meet quite a few women that have never done it on their period, it's not something they experimented through with other guys. So this may be a novel experience. Key in my opinion is to be comfortable, dominant and confident yourself - MAINTAIN YOUR FRAME:

Understand that what this really is is a frame battle. Her frame is "having sex on my period is disgusting and weird," and yours is "sex on your period is 1. totally cool with me, and 2. will feel REALLY, REALLY good for you." Handle it like that and treat it like LMR - you're continuing to escalate physically and dominantly, and you have to manage her emotions in the moment. Make her feel so good with your presence, dominance, and touch (everywhere on her body and over her pussy) that she can't say no.

Sometimes what helps is actually giving her a few clitoral orgasms (regardless of whether she's fully naked - maybe your hand in her pants, as you continue to undress her) and then proceed to penetrative vaginal sex.

Also prepare for period sex - have a towel handy and lay it down on the bed, then lay her on top and proceed as normal. Key again is to not make it such a big deal - you're gonna give her an awesome time regardless of her period. That's your frame.

Hmmm not sure, I think a mentality of "frame battles" brings you that: a lot of... Battles.

Not only you wanna pick your battles, but even better, you should go around looking for best alternatives.

 

[lux7]

Also, honestly, I'm not sure you guys have been in a similar situation?

It's not just "period sex" 'talking about, and not a situation where a girl just "doesn't feel comfortable", but a situation where she feels disgusted and pleading for understanding.

 

[lao che]

Point is you didn't manage lmr well, regardless of whether or not she's on her period. That is irrelevant. In the end she was disgusted at your neediness / uncalibrated persistence, not at the thought of period sex.

Although why this thread had been resurrected I don't know

 

[lux7]

Point is you didn't manage lmr well, regardless of whether or not she's on her period. That is irrelevant. In the end she was disgusted at your neediness / uncalibrated persistence, not at the thought of period sex.

Although why this thread had been resurrected I don't know

Doubt that's the case as we met again and became lover.

Again this wasn't the case of a standard lmr.

Because you had X amount of women who didn't feel disgusted about X, doesn't mean some can't be disgusted in their guts about X.

Now the most important point here is that it might as well easily be this could have been a lay that same day, under certain circumstances.
I'm not sure about it and not sure about what it would have costed.

If for example she'd have enjoyed, it would have been great.

If on the other hand her disgusted sensations would have instead been confirmed, she would have come to see me as a person who forced her into something she didn't like, for his own pleasure, completely disregarding her emotions.
In some cases, some women might be attracted to that as well.
On many other cases, at the very best, it would have transferred those bad feelings to me.

Anyway, case closed, one single instance isn't enough to generalize, but in these cases it seemed good to me to stop further efforts once you decided it's not going to happen, and treat her good (as you should normally do anyway, without being supplicative or sappy of course)

 

[lao che]

So what's the lesson here?

 

[lux7]

LOL, good question, I think a lot depends on cases and, mostly, how strong she feels about it.

I believe that once you reach a point where you can see the "no" is strongly associated to negative feelings and deep into her brain -could be towards many things: sex on period, sex with another partner, sex on the first date because of deep routed religious fears etc. etc.- then you got to options: push it anyway as far as you can, or accept it and plan around it accordingly.

I believe the second option, to accept it and set the sex as the nearest/as soon as possible next option, is the safest because of the repercussions that "pushing it" can have if she doesn't get good feelings from you and from the act, both during and afterwards (afterwards maybe even more important).

ie.: you might have sex quick with a girl with deep seated religious fears if you push and push and push, but if she still feel bad afterwards, and if she still feels what she's done is disgusting, then you'll be the guy who "forced" her to behave disgustingly, and she'll pass those feelings on you.

We're talking the rarest events here, but in extreme cases, might also be dangerous for possible legal consequences.
Still rare, but maybe a bit less so, you might leave a negative mark on her, especially for less experienced guys or, sic, guys who don't give a damn.

On the other hand, being a "gentleman" and understanding and making a good atmosphere and making it happen on the next nearest occasion, is likely yo give you points in these cases, possibly lots of points if the next time is good (ie. "he's a gentleman who respected me, cares for me, and also a guy who knows what he's doing".. what a catch

 

[Chase]

Lux-

I understand you eventually slept with this girl. That'll happen sometimes.

Even still, I'd be wary of the "Let's break it off now, and don't worry, we'll get together later" type deal.

Often that ends up being a deal like this:

... where that Tuesday money (sex with her another day) never materializes.

Sometimes it does, but your odds are much higher when she's with you, in bed, escalating, than letting her go and meeting up later.

The best thing to do when you run into weird issues like this is deep dive her on the issue: "Help me understand this. I can see you're getting a look of disgust on your face. Can you explain to me what that's about?"

Just treat it like you're coming from a completely different paradigm (which, hopefully, you are; if not, well, practice this, and eventually you will be), and need her to take you through her rather alien reaction as if she's introducing the concept of being disgusted at whatever it is to a child who's never been exposed to this idea before:

• 
  You: I can see you look grossed out. Can you explain it to me? What's this reaction about?
  
  Her: I'm on my period right now.
  
  You: Okay. You're on your period. Can you explain the gross part to me?
  
  Her: There's blood.
  
  You: And blood is gross.
  
  Her: Yes.
  
  You: So is the gross part that the blood is coming out of you? Or is it that your blood would be on my cock? Or would you feel embarrassed about having orgasms with my cock in you while you're getting period blood running down my testicles?
  
  Her: Umm... just, all of it?
  
  You: Okay, let me ask you this: if I was in you in the shower, and any blood that came out as you were cumming was immediately washed off my cock and down the drain, would it still be gross?

Like that. You just explore the issue with her, probe, and at the same time drop in references designed to arouse her and get her thinking about your fat cock in her tight little pussy and how good that's going to feel.

Occasionally, you'll meet women with walls you just can't climb with whatever skills or experiences you have at your disposal. And if you want to just cool it with them and meet up with them to try again another time, you can do that. It seems like women are somewhat more forgiving toward failed escalations when there was a period involved.

However, the highest percentage option is always "Figure out a way to make her want it and assent to it and enjoy it TODAY, and not tomorrow or the next day." Tomorrow never comes, and that payment Tuesday for a hamburger today often sounds good yet never shows up.

Chase

 

[lux7]

So true Chase, that's what I kept repeating in my mind the whole evening.

Yet there was no way to move this forward, I had never met such a hard case before.

There were several giveaways which made me think it might have happened in the future as well:

1. She wanted to sexually please me without vaginal intercourse (BJ)
2. She made a massage just to make me happy
3. Not a party girl, she wouldn't easily set off with the next guy
4. Only on man in her life sexually, her ex husband: unlikely she'd just hop on the next guy's bed
5. Busy with PhD but new in town and with no friends, not like she had that many human distractions
6. A bit socially impaired and out of water in the west as well, not likely she'd build a social circle that easily and quickly, meaning... I was likely going to be her only distraction for a while
7. We had a good connection and a good time


Great idea anyway that of addressing the objection and proposing solutions while arousing her -only tried the latter, the two together might have even been a game changer-.

 

[Lawliet]

I read the topic and thought of persisting for a date, but a lot more advanced.
Thanks for the insights, how did it go?

Lawliet