Going to college vs Dropping out & getting rich

[Kaida]

I’m a senior in high school right now, and I’ve been very lucky and fortunate to have gotten a full tuition scholarship to college.

Pros of this college:

• massive campus size
• has a high population (35,000+)
• one of the best greek lifes in the country
• amazing for parties
• great social scene
• has a 56:44 ftm ratio
• is in a town that has almost 50% my preferred race of girls
• Dont have to pay any tuition

Cons

• The actual college only has 10% my preferred race of girls
• Still have to pay for housing
• Potentially wasting 4 years when I could be accomplishing goals w/o it

Basically, its a good place if I want to upgrade my social skills and learn pickup, without having to go too much out of my way, especially since I plan to be a bartender which should help.

But I’m still considering if I should even go, since its so much time that I could be using to start a business, learn martial arts, accomplish other goals I want etc. I dont even have an idea of what degree I should get to help me along with these goals.

What input do you guys have on this? I might be overestimating the value that college brings to my goals as I dont really know what it brings yet, so I value any guidance.

@Chase I would heavily appreciate your input on this if you can, because you have a great sense for structuring lifestyles

 

[Train]

I'd say define what sort of career you'd like and whether college is required for that. If you're doing medicine, law, or engineering, you'll probably need college.

I know there's the recent anti-college trend in the mainstream and it seems chique to not go to college. However, the problem is not college.

The issue is many college students are not thinking critically about what they're getting into. They are on auto-pilot. They are putting the cart before the horse. "I will go to college for X. Then I will work in some field."

When they should be thinking "I want to be X. I need college for that. So I WILL go to college."

Ex. $100K in college debt for gender studies is a horrible investment money-wise. Less so if you can get a decent-paying job in some other field that requires a degree.

Honestly, even for medicine and law, immediate reward/effort ratios look meh. But I know some guys pulling mad bank later in life as doctors. For engineering, you don't need secondary degrees and can hit the industry right after graduation.

If you have a merit-based full scholarship, you probably have the aptitude for these advanced, high-skilled fields. Something to consider.

You having a full scholarship is a total game changer in the decision-making. One of the biggest cons to college is the incurred debt you can't erase (in the US).

If parents will help pay for housing, even less risk to attend college. You'll need to pay for housing anyway if you didn't go to college if you're living away from home.

So you have more slack to attend college while exploring what field you gravitate towards and partaking in the social dynamics.

You have way less risk than someone who's thinking to spend $25K in the first year to find out if college is what they need. Maybe get a part-time job if needed to pay for housing. Could even get some side hustles going and exploring those too. Maybe you find out you hate entrepreneurship. Who knows.

I would start thinking right now what career you envision yourself doing. While also noting you have leverage to make college work based on your full scholarship if merit-based.

If I were in your shoes, I'd confirm my career but still attend college for at least a year and see if I find anything that clicks better. You may re-evaluate your career path after taking a course or delving into subject matters.

With a merit-based full scholarship, you're in a different situation than some dumb dodo doing an ineffective degree and taking out $300K to end up working in a coffee shop 4 years later.

As far as pickup, I'd honestly prioritize your career first in regards to deciding whether college is important. College is a unique social/dating experience but it's only 4 years (unless you go Van Wilder) and career will be your lifeblood for many more years affecting everything you can do.

Once you decide your career path, if you end up in college and can have fun immersed in Greek life, it's a bonus. But I honestly wouldn't make that the primary factor for whether to go to college or not.

 

[Chase]

@Kaida,

Lots of folks (especially men) are skeptical about going to university these days. More and more of the degrees universities are churning out are fairly useless, and universities themselves have lurched toward being indoctrination factories. Then you’ve got all the Title IX rape witch hunts and general culture wars stuff, and they are not the academies of erudition and innovation they used to be.

Could you do it better on your own? Perhaps. But a few considerations:

• You must be extremely disciplined to make things work on your own with no one pushing you
  
  
• This is even more true when you do not yet have monetizeable skills, and you do not have any kind of network

The only case where I’d recommend a guy skip university is one where all these conditions were met:

1. He has ALREADY DEVELOPED a highly monetizeable skill throughout his high school years and is already making at least a middle class income off it by age 18
   
   
2. He has a very clear understanding of what to do and how to do it to continue gathering more clients, building more skills, and improving his financial position
   
   
3. He is so busy, with so much to do to get to where he wants to get to, and such a clear trajectory there, that college would be a pointless detour from the path he’s on

Otherwise, if a guy doesn’t have that crystal clear path ahead of him, he is better off IMO going to university, where he at least has access to people who will try to help him find a path. Out in the wide world, you are on your own. Most people’s relatives can’t help them with this, and no one else cares enough to.

As for majors… here’s a recommendation: find out what fields your school is ranked #1 or close to it in. Those are the fields that will be a recruiting feeding frenzy when you graduate in 4 years with loads of opportunities. Here’s something not a lot of people will tell you: if you get a good job coming out of university, it doesn’t matter a whole lot what field it’s in, because you can switch later.

My school was #1 in the country in supply chain when I went there (I had no idea about this until a roommate pointed it out to me second semester of junior year). So in my last year I minored in supply chain and got myself hired for a cush supply chain consulting role at a top corporation. If I wanted to continue with the corporate world, I could’ve switched to dozens of other big name companies, or moved internally to a different position. That’s what most of the kids who joined at the same time I did went on to do. I don’t know that any of them were still in supply chain the last time I checked 10 years later.

You can practice martial arts while you’re in school. 10% x 56% x 35,000 = 1,960 girls of your preferred type there, which is plenty unless you’re trying to approach 400 girls a month or something. Remember that each year you get a fresh crop of freshman girls too (the easiest girls to pick up in school).

Here’s the “maximize your college experience” game plan:

1. Find out all the fields your school is #1 in the country or close to it in. If it isn’t #1 in anything, then just find out what it’s best at. If it’s the #7 school in the country in [whatever field], and that’s its best field, and its next best field it’s #22 in, you should probably pick that #7 field. Just make sure it’s a major with good earning potential and something you think you could maybe get some enjoyment out of doing. Start learning about that field even in advance of selecting it as your major
   
   
2. Once you get to school, get the lay of the land on the frats, and find out which are the best party frats pulling the hottest sorority girls. Draw up a list of the 3-5 best frats. Rush them. Aim to get into a great one. It’ll be awkward rushing and you might feel like an underling but you’ll get inducted into a group of guys who are going to help you and train you socially
   
   
3. When you get there make friends with everyone on your floor and in your classes. Be a sociable, welcoming, inclusive guy
   
   
4. Find a martial arts dojo in town. Sign up, even if you can’t find your preferred type of martial arts there – just pick another form of martial arts (you can always return to your preferred type after graduation). Plan your classes so that you’ll be free to attend martial arts class twice a week. You won’t practice as much as you could have if you were free to do nothing but martial arts, but you’ll still fit some in, and two classes a week over four years, if you make an effort in your training, and you practice your strikes and stances at home, will get you quite far
   
   
5. Then, assuming you still have time in your schedule, pick a monetizeable skill you want to learn if you were to start your own business. Train yourself in it, and in a year or two start taking jobs that pay you for it. This is what you should’ve been doing since 14 or 15 if your plan was to skip college; since you didn’t do it, you should go to college, but you can still do it with your free time in college to give yourself flexibility post-graduation (i.e., you can get a job with your degree, or perhaps go into consulting with the skill you’ve developed on your own if you got good enough and built an impressive portfolio of satisfied paying clients)

Those’d be my recommendations for you, given your goals.

Hope it helps!

Chase

 

[Will_V]

I sort of did both - I went to university, got a degree, then went off and did my own thing entirely unrelated.

For me, the degree was a waste of time, although I wasn't in a great place with the rest of my life at the time so I decided to finish it while I tried to improve my situation. That by itself was a good choice in a way, because I at least was decisive and succeeded at my chosen decision (got the degree).

Right after I graduated though I went the self-taught programming/freelance writing route and never went back to the field I graduated in. The freelance/own business lifestyle suits me to the bone, to the point that I've decided to never get a 9-5 in future. HOWEVER, there are some caveats.

First, it's hard. It's psychologically hard and socially hard. You will end up in a rut at least every couple of years and have to dig yourself out by sheer willpower long after you've completely lost motivation. That's part and parcel of going this route. It's like a marathon with no one watching or applauding, and most of the time people don't really believe you have made anything of yourself even when you have. But I am psychologically made for it - I have an antagonistic, anti-authority personality where I enjoy being at war with something, and if I'm given a comfortable routine I'll soon make sure that it's not. I always enjoyed being alone and putting myself through difficult things. That's just who I am, it's neither good nor bad, and not everyone is like that. My brother is the opposite - very chill, sociable, and fits into any kind of work culture or routine, and is very successful. You have to understand yourself and accept who you are to be able to make yourself a success, fighting your nature is a waste of time.

It's socially hard because you don't realize how much all your social circles depend on a shared path until you go off the beaten track. You might stay in touch a few months but eventually 99% of your friends will drift away. You can make new friends, but it's quite difficult to do and requires building your own social routine and sticking to it with discipline. If I had not learned cold approach, women in my life would be pretty much non existent. If you want any social circle you really have to put yourself out there, take opportunities to meet people, learn how to make a very good impression in a short amount of time, and be able to provide immediate and substantial value. It's very humbling and wears away at your motivation unless you really meet it head on. All these things are usually created for you at university and work, but if you don't go that path it's all up to you.

The way I think of it now, the self-made route is for people who look at the world as something to act upon more than something to be part of. It's not for people who just want to have an easy, comfortable, or fun time, it's for people who have a chip on their shoulder, who would rather fulfill a vision and shape reality, even in a very small way, than to be comfortable or even happy. Otherwise, it's better to find a place in the world that gives you what really fulfills you.

I would make one suggestion to you while you try to decide: I know you've been posting a bunch of stuff here where you're having trouble with motivation and discipline. Why don't you spend the next year continuing toward college, but spending a few hours per day doing what you would do if you had dropped out. If you can't keep it up for a year, and make something of yourself as a freelancer or business owner, it's probably going to do way more harm than good to just cast yourself off the ship and start swimming around in the ocean with nothing to support you.

 

[Kaida]

Thanks so much for y’alls in depth answers man.

@Train

You may re-evaluate your career path after taking a course or delving into subject matters.

Ah, true. Cant assume anything

With a merit-based full scholarship, you're in a different situation than some dumb dodo doing an ineffective degree and taking out $300K to end up working in a coffee shop 4 years later.

Very true bro. This was shown to me when I found out my coach spent 300k at baylor for a history degree and ended up coaching high school football lol

As far as pickup, I'd honestly prioritize your career first in regards to deciding whether college is important. College is a unique social/dating experience but it's only 4 years (unless you go Van Wilder) and career will be your lifeblood for many more years affecting everything you can do.

Once you decide your career path, if you end up in college and can have fun immersed in Greek life, it's a bonus. But I honestly wouldn't make that the primary factor for whether to go to college or not.

Really? I thought most people gain a large amount of their social + pickup skills in college, since its a highly social place you dong have to go out of your way much for. Maybe I’m overestimating its value



@Chase,

universities themselves have lurched toward being indoctrination factories.

Yeah, partly why I’m reluctant on going. At the visit they kept trying to force me to repeat their catchphrase back and I feel like thats their first step in making you a slave mind.

Could you do it better on your own? Perhaps. But a few considerations:

• You must be extremely disciplined to make things work on your own with no one pushing you
  
  
• This is even more true when you do not yet have monetizeable skills, and you do not have any kind of network

Being honest with myself, I’m not sure if I have enough discipline for that.

Another reason I wanted to skip college is because I felt that throwing myself into the world with hard times and no backup plan would motivate me to really make something of myself. Because hard times create strong men and all that. This is likely 90% what I would have ended up doing if I didnt think to make this post.

As for majors… here’s a recommendation: find out what fields your school is ranked #1 or close to it in. Those are the fields that will be a recruiting feeding frenzy when you graduate in 4 years with loads of opportunities. Here’s something not a lot of people will tell you: if you get a good job coming out of university, it doesn’t matter a whole lot what field it’s in, because you can switch later.

Couldnt really find a major that my school specializes in after searching 10mins. Is the most popular major a good guess of what the uni is best in

Once you get to school, get the lay of the land on the frats, and find out which are the best party frats pulling the hottest sorority girls. Draw up a list of the 3-5 best frats. Rush them. Aim to get into a great one. It’ll be awkward rushing and you might feel like an underling but you’ll get inducted into a group of guys who are going to help you and train you socially

Okay, most likely doing that.

Hopefully the frat initiation isn’t too bad. And I hope the overly zealous & obsessive frat personality doesnt rub off too much cuz I’ve heard some crazy stories.

Then, assuming you still have time in your schedule, pick a monetizeable skill you want to learn if you were to start your own business.

I’ll most likely do copywriting. I’ve been putting it off too much. I’ll use the advice you gave me earlier on it



@Will_V,

The way I think of it now, the self-made route is for people who look at the world as something to act upon more than something to be part of. It's not for people who just want to have an easy, comfortable, or fun time, it's for people who have a chip on their shoulder, who would rather fulfill a vision and shape reality, even in a very small way, than to be comfortable or even happy. Otherwise, it's better to find a place in the world that gives you what really fulfills you.

I hope as I go into college or even in the next few months, I can grow to understand myself to the extent you do and be able to build my lifestyle around that.

As I read what you said, I’m not sure if I am actually the same way or that’s my mind wanting to be a certain way instead of it just being my nature.

I’d like to think I’m a guy who enjoys rewarding difficulty and connecting with people. But that’s what I like to think, who knows if that’s the truth.

One thing I know for sure though I love the concept of geographic freedom and adventure, healthily mixed in with some risk. I can tell this because my favorite video games, tv shows etc are all based around a world full of risk, adventure, and mystery. The best games I played were ones that would drop you into the world with no tutorial and no handholding. You would discover and find out about the game only after countless deaths where u lose everything, which made everything you did more meaningful

I would make one suggestion to you while you try to decide: I know you've been posting a bunch of stuff here where you're having trouble with motivation and discipline. Why don't you spend the next year continuing toward college, but spending a few hours per day doing what you would do if you had dropped out.

Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll try and implement it.

I’d like to think I’m more disciplined than average, as I wake up an hour earlier than I have to to do a detailed morning and nigh routine and review my goals. Not sure if it’s enough discipline though, as I still have problems with things like staying consistent with some things, and reducing porn.

it's probably going to do way more harm than good to just cast yourself off the ship and start swimming around in the ocean with nothing to support you.

I know its not an amazing idea, but I’d like to think that putting myself through something like that would help me develop serious strength if I made it out in the end. This is something I’ve always wanted to do to an extent

 

[Train]

Really? I thought most people gain a large amount of their social + pickup skills in college, since its a highly social place you dong have to go out of your way much for. Maybe I’m overestimating its value

It can definitely be a highly social place that is great to develop and refine social skills.

For example, it gave me a lot of opportunities to socialize and calibrate with people in my age group. But I wouldn't pay housing or take classes just for that benefit. I see it as more of a bonus benefit.

I've met people who didn't go to college and they were socially adept and/or fun to socialize with. So I'd say the college environment is great but not a must-have for being socially adept. Great in the sense it gives you a lot opportunities often to socialize.

 

[Kvothe]

School is an investment. Make the right decisions and you’ll increase the probability of a higher ROI (nothing in life is guaranteed after all). While I fantasized about picking a great party school with the hottest girls, I’m far happier that I picked the SJW hotspot that was top ranked for my major that gave me the skills to get a career that has an incredible amount of freedom in it. Not to mention friends who are likely experts in the same field (great networking).

One thing I did note was that your pros for college were all seduction oriented. I agree you should treat that as a bonus, and not a main reason to go to school.

Just my opinion though. It worked for me, but it could be the wrong advice for you. Just make sure to make your decision based on your mission and what you want out of life.