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- Oct 21, 2023
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Hey guys,
I just read a great post that I felt would be extremely useful to beginners especially. Its from Tyler Durden and his old Tyler's Digest before RSD was all the rage.
I personally don't care about loyalties or hatred towards any particular instructor. I am open to learning something useful regardless of the source.
I know some of you have strong views about every instructor or company. I found this amazingly helpful. Hope you read it with an open mind and it helps you. Its a a bit of a long read but worth its weight in gold.
Calling out some guys I follow here who I think might definitely appreciate this post @Higher @gameboy @Curwen : D
That's it. Hope this is useful. Here goes:
Extract from Tyler's Digest :
When I took Mystery's workshop, I remember that I had a lot of skepticism going in. I'd heard that he was 6'5, did magic, and was goodlooking. So that was why he got girls. That matched my model of the world, because I did not understand what kinds of communications generated attraction. My understanding
was as deep as the surface level phenomena that I saw, and looks and height was a major part of that.
I went to his workshop, and I saw stuff that fucked my mind for the next year. It was difficult to swallow the things that I saw, and I can recall wondering if he was using hypnosis or something that I didn't understand. I simply couldn't reconcile how he was getting the reactions that he was getting. It
wasn't like anything I'd seen before, or even conceptualized before. My expectations were surpassed. There were other factors too, of course. Like,
when you find a music group that nobody has heard of, you'll like it far more because you identify with it as your own. When something is the status quo, people don't identify with it as readily - ala Back Street boys. So those two
things in combination probably had weight with me. But it was the first reason particularly. What I saw was plain shocking.
And I could see how guys were coming to the whole "I don't have what he has" conclusion. At that time, there weren't any other high level PUAs that could do what he could do. I'd heard of this guy named Style in his mid thirties,
who was supposedly 5'7, bald, and 120 pounds. Apparently he could do the same kind of thing, which seemed interesting. Overall though, it was hard to believe that I was ever really going to get to his level. It was hard for me
to identify with the idea of it.
But the big thing that made me different from all the other guys, was that I never once let myself go on the mental path of making excuses for myself. What one man can do, another can do. I never let myself think even for a second
that I couldn't learn what he did. Even if it was hard, I didn't let my
identity hold me back. I was willing to evolve my identity. For the next year my game was a mess. I didn't fully understand how Mystery
was doing what he was doing. But I knew that it was possible to achieve, and that I was going to achieve it. I just did what he told me to do, over and over, until I figured it out. Sometimes it sucked pretty bad. But I would see
little reactions here and there, that were similar to what he got. I couldn't get them consistently, but I could get them here and there.
From there, I came up with a million theories of how to get it.
Maybe I just need 7 hours of routines? That would make sense, because when I'd run well polished routines, I would get a similar sort of reaction. Otherwise, I'd "lose girls in rapport". At the time, I didn't understand that a routine was a
capsule that contained a behaviour pattern which elicited a reaction from the girls. The verbal communication was tightened by somebody else, and the fact
that I was "delivering it" quieted my mind down during the time capsule that it took me to deliver it, which created micro level behaviours that were high
value as well.
But as I did this more and more, these thought patterns and behaviour patterns were becoming more internalized into my identity. I put a lot of thought into my game. I looked at it from a very detached manner and in great detail. I talked to people and got their feedback on how I was coming across. I talked to all the best guys and looked very deeply at the reactions that I was getting. I wasn't satisfied at just getting laid here and there, because I knew that if I allowed myself to be easily satisfied that I'd wind up in an LTR and that I'd lose her eventually and be back where I'd
started.
Reading some of the excuses in some of the posts around here, I can feel the bullshit. "I'm too old, I'm not as goodlooking, blah blah" That's different than guys saying that a goodlooking can play a different style of game, but in
general there are fundamentals to game that are pure and if you have them then you get girls and if you don't have them then you don't.
Two years later, the game is solved. And as it turns out, Mystery's game is
actually tight. Yes, despite his height or looks. His style of interaction follows the principles of tight game. Period. So all the guys that made excuses were wrong. I never let myself to be pulled in by all the rhetoric on ASF. I saw what I saw. I read "Don't be a clone". Whatever. I thought "Model the best. I will model the best. I will do it until I understand the mechanics of what's going on and then go from there."
So what I'm saying here, is that it comes down to thought patterns and corresponding behaviour patterns. Somewhere in there, a monkey wrench must be thrown in. You can throw it into your thought patterns, and hope that it
shifts behaviours. You can shift behaviours, and hope that it shifts thoughts.
You can do both, and have a vision of an outcome that you are working towards. But in the end, this is hard. Don't underestimate how hard it is to take an
AFC and re-wire him. If I'd known how hard it was going to be, I might have never started. I would have been too intimidated. But the thing is, I enjoyed the process of learning. The journey was in many ways the outcome. It was the
end in itself.
I was probably successful because I never NEEDED it to work. I knew that I sucked, but was willing to improve it. My frame was never in jeopardy of weakening, because I didn't associate my identity as a something that was worth preserving. If you aren't getting results - like if you're one of the guys who
isn't doing well at all - then don't underestimate how bad you suck. You probably suck very badly. You probably have a million thought patterns that you aren't even aware of that are holding you back.
This is going to be a long road for you. You're not going to escape this with any bandaid solutions. You are going to have to sarge like crazy for a few years. But not in a way where you're needing it to work. You're going to have
to do it from an angle where you don't care that you suck, and where you actually enjoy sarging for the process of learning about yourself and others.
Very few people get this stuff. Your understanding of what sparks attraction is probably so limited, that your attempts at pickup are like throwing darts in a pitch black room. The stuff that we describe on ASF doesn't describe it
properly. It's too hard to describe in text to a guy who doesn't get it.
Guys have been trying for years, and there still is not a consistent number of guys coming through the system really good. All that's happening is that guys come in, and are all "Oh, its not my fault all this time, its just a skillset.
I feel better about myself now. Time to go back to masterbating and playing videogames. I'll get this skillset later." Yeah right - for a guy coming from a bad place, this skillset is so hard to learn that there's no way any guy who
isn't commited will ever get it.
Do you think that all those pickups you did where the girls gave you some big IOIs were near lays? You just weren't in the mood to follow up or whatever?
No way. The difference between a girl actually spreading her legs for you, and giving you IOIs, that is a BIG difference. The extent to which you have to change your thought patterns and basic behaviour patterns is so deep - this
shit is so deep rooted into you, you have no idea. It takes years to weed this stuff out. To go from getting a lot of IOIs to getting laid, that is a big leap.
This isn't even about skillset. This is about how the amount of girls that you get is in direct proportion to how well you have this stuff sorted out. Getting laid is a symptom of having your thought patterns and behaviour
patterns in alignment. You can't out-technique this stuff.
The reason we focus on techniques is that they give you a chance to get a ton of interaction under your belt until you sort it out. There's no way you can sort out your inner game sitting at home saying "I'm the prize, I'm alpha, I'm
sexual" all day long. That's why I meet so many guys who are even MORE annoying than AFCs, because they're lame AFCs who think they're PUAs and try to
bring in all these incongruent behaviour patterns that you can tell they don't have the jam to back up.
So we fix this by going out in the field like crazy. Getting 20 years worth of social interaction under your belt in 2 years. It's like lifting weights. You are working out your social muscles.
OK, so that's the negative. Now here is the positive.
Anybody can get good at this stuff. Yes, even the worst off guy. Anyone who says otherwise is allowing their limiting beliefs to control their thoughts and their outcomes. If I see some rich goodlooking guy getting laid, my first thought reaction isn't to look for EXCUSES of why I can't do what he can do. ARE YOU FUCKING
KIDDING ME?!?!?! I'm looking closely at his behaviour patterns and thinking about how his lifestyle or status has changed his thought patterns and corresponding behaviour patterns, and how I can model that to my advantage.
There is no way I'm looking for excuses about why a guy pulls. That's a lameass way of reinforcing my frame that its not my fault. Like, "Oh, I can
still feel good about myself."
That doesn't mean that I'm going to copy the guy inside and out. Of course not. But I know a ton of rich and goodlooking guys who don't get girls.
The reason why these particular rich or goodlooking guys happen to get girls is because they've taken on the behaviour patterns that attract women, as a result
of their thought patterns, which were probably fueled by some positive reinforcement that their looks and money got them. But in the end of the day, I can still take on those patterns, whether I have their benefits or not. That's my choice.
I am a winner. I have never allowed myself to associate my identity with being a loser. Just because I was a loser at the time didn't mean that I wasn't a
winner waiting to happen. I reinforce this to myself continually. I think about it all the time. I am a winner. I repeat stuff to myself constantly in my head, and my behaviour patterns flow from there.
That means that I HOLD MYSELF TO THE SAME STANDARD AS THE
GOODLOOKING RICH GUYS. I never allowed myself to say "Mystery has magic and height and looks".
YEAH RIGHT!!! IS THAT A BAD JOKE???? That shit is plain *RETARDED*. I can't understand how a guy could allow himself to think that way. I mean, I understand it in abstract like how I understand in abstract that a vagrant could sit out on the street all day begging for change. But I don't understand it in the sense that I could even remotely imagine letting myself think that
way.
I know the danger of it. I know it well. I thought like that until I
was about 15 years old, and it will bullshit. I know that it yields nothing. I know that even if its true, that the thought process itself is nothing but some bullshit that I tell myself to make myself feel better about sucking. I don't care about my emotions and distorting reality to make myself feel good.
I'm not going to say "It's his money and looks" so that I can make an excuse that I don't suck compared to him because its not my fault. I care about just facing that I suck and NOT CARING on an emotional level, but still keeping a logical/emotional disconnect so I know that I logically know that I need to fix it but there's no emotional NEEDINESS to fix it that makes me act like a weirdo.
Then, just working from there to change it. I enjoy the process of
changing it, so that is the end in and of itself. And based on the habits that result from that, I get a positive outcome over the long term.
FUNDAMENTAL UNDERSTANDING: The behaviour pattern / thought pattern combination that creates identity is what attracts women. If a guy has things going for
him, then I will look at how that benefitted his behaviour/thought pattern, and emulate the good parts and discard the many bad parts that don't serve me.
There are no excuses. If you aren't willing to put the time in then quit now. Because ASF is going to torture you. I meet many guys who are tortured by ASF. They get the theory, but can't implement it. They loved it at first, because
they got that initial fix of "It's just a skillset" validation. But from
there, they couldn't maintain that fix, and it fucked them up.
HIGH YIELDING THOUGHT PROCESS: "What can I learn from this?"
EMOTIONALLY SHIELDING THOUGHT PROCESS:
"What can I find in this that
excuses why I couldn't do it and allows me to preserve my identity?
I just read a great post that I felt would be extremely useful to beginners especially. Its from Tyler Durden and his old Tyler's Digest before RSD was all the rage.
I personally don't care about loyalties or hatred towards any particular instructor. I am open to learning something useful regardless of the source.
I know some of you have strong views about every instructor or company. I found this amazingly helpful. Hope you read it with an open mind and it helps you. Its a a bit of a long read but worth its weight in gold.
Calling out some guys I follow here who I think might definitely appreciate this post @Higher @gameboy @Curwen : D
That's it. Hope this is useful. Here goes:
Extract from Tyler's Digest :
When I took Mystery's workshop, I remember that I had a lot of skepticism going in. I'd heard that he was 6'5, did magic, and was goodlooking. So that was why he got girls. That matched my model of the world, because I did not understand what kinds of communications generated attraction. My understanding
was as deep as the surface level phenomena that I saw, and looks and height was a major part of that.
I went to his workshop, and I saw stuff that fucked my mind for the next year. It was difficult to swallow the things that I saw, and I can recall wondering if he was using hypnosis or something that I didn't understand. I simply couldn't reconcile how he was getting the reactions that he was getting. It
wasn't like anything I'd seen before, or even conceptualized before. My expectations were surpassed. There were other factors too, of course. Like,
when you find a music group that nobody has heard of, you'll like it far more because you identify with it as your own. When something is the status quo, people don't identify with it as readily - ala Back Street boys. So those two
things in combination probably had weight with me. But it was the first reason particularly. What I saw was plain shocking.
And I could see how guys were coming to the whole "I don't have what he has" conclusion. At that time, there weren't any other high level PUAs that could do what he could do. I'd heard of this guy named Style in his mid thirties,
who was supposedly 5'7, bald, and 120 pounds. Apparently he could do the same kind of thing, which seemed interesting. Overall though, it was hard to believe that I was ever really going to get to his level. It was hard for me
to identify with the idea of it.
But the big thing that made me different from all the other guys, was that I never once let myself go on the mental path of making excuses for myself. What one man can do, another can do. I never let myself think even for a second
that I couldn't learn what he did. Even if it was hard, I didn't let my
identity hold me back. I was willing to evolve my identity. For the next year my game was a mess. I didn't fully understand how Mystery
was doing what he was doing. But I knew that it was possible to achieve, and that I was going to achieve it. I just did what he told me to do, over and over, until I figured it out. Sometimes it sucked pretty bad. But I would see
little reactions here and there, that were similar to what he got. I couldn't get them consistently, but I could get them here and there.
From there, I came up with a million theories of how to get it.
Maybe I just need 7 hours of routines? That would make sense, because when I'd run well polished routines, I would get a similar sort of reaction. Otherwise, I'd "lose girls in rapport". At the time, I didn't understand that a routine was a
capsule that contained a behaviour pattern which elicited a reaction from the girls. The verbal communication was tightened by somebody else, and the fact
that I was "delivering it" quieted my mind down during the time capsule that it took me to deliver it, which created micro level behaviours that were high
value as well.
But as I did this more and more, these thought patterns and behaviour patterns were becoming more internalized into my identity. I put a lot of thought into my game. I looked at it from a very detached manner and in great detail. I talked to people and got their feedback on how I was coming across. I talked to all the best guys and looked very deeply at the reactions that I was getting. I wasn't satisfied at just getting laid here and there, because I knew that if I allowed myself to be easily satisfied that I'd wind up in an LTR and that I'd lose her eventually and be back where I'd
started.
Reading some of the excuses in some of the posts around here, I can feel the bullshit. "I'm too old, I'm not as goodlooking, blah blah" That's different than guys saying that a goodlooking can play a different style of game, but in
general there are fundamentals to game that are pure and if you have them then you get girls and if you don't have them then you don't.
Two years later, the game is solved. And as it turns out, Mystery's game is
actually tight. Yes, despite his height or looks. His style of interaction follows the principles of tight game. Period. So all the guys that made excuses were wrong. I never let myself to be pulled in by all the rhetoric on ASF. I saw what I saw. I read "Don't be a clone". Whatever. I thought "Model the best. I will model the best. I will do it until I understand the mechanics of what's going on and then go from there."
So what I'm saying here, is that it comes down to thought patterns and corresponding behaviour patterns. Somewhere in there, a monkey wrench must be thrown in. You can throw it into your thought patterns, and hope that it
shifts behaviours. You can shift behaviours, and hope that it shifts thoughts.
You can do both, and have a vision of an outcome that you are working towards. But in the end, this is hard. Don't underestimate how hard it is to take an
AFC and re-wire him. If I'd known how hard it was going to be, I might have never started. I would have been too intimidated. But the thing is, I enjoyed the process of learning. The journey was in many ways the outcome. It was the
end in itself.
I was probably successful because I never NEEDED it to work. I knew that I sucked, but was willing to improve it. My frame was never in jeopardy of weakening, because I didn't associate my identity as a something that was worth preserving. If you aren't getting results - like if you're one of the guys who
isn't doing well at all - then don't underestimate how bad you suck. You probably suck very badly. You probably have a million thought patterns that you aren't even aware of that are holding you back.
This is going to be a long road for you. You're not going to escape this with any bandaid solutions. You are going to have to sarge like crazy for a few years. But not in a way where you're needing it to work. You're going to have
to do it from an angle where you don't care that you suck, and where you actually enjoy sarging for the process of learning about yourself and others.
Very few people get this stuff. Your understanding of what sparks attraction is probably so limited, that your attempts at pickup are like throwing darts in a pitch black room. The stuff that we describe on ASF doesn't describe it
properly. It's too hard to describe in text to a guy who doesn't get it.
Guys have been trying for years, and there still is not a consistent number of guys coming through the system really good. All that's happening is that guys come in, and are all "Oh, its not my fault all this time, its just a skillset.
I feel better about myself now. Time to go back to masterbating and playing videogames. I'll get this skillset later." Yeah right - for a guy coming from a bad place, this skillset is so hard to learn that there's no way any guy who
isn't commited will ever get it.
Do you think that all those pickups you did where the girls gave you some big IOIs were near lays? You just weren't in the mood to follow up or whatever?
No way. The difference between a girl actually spreading her legs for you, and giving you IOIs, that is a BIG difference. The extent to which you have to change your thought patterns and basic behaviour patterns is so deep - this
shit is so deep rooted into you, you have no idea. It takes years to weed this stuff out. To go from getting a lot of IOIs to getting laid, that is a big leap.
This isn't even about skillset. This is about how the amount of girls that you get is in direct proportion to how well you have this stuff sorted out. Getting laid is a symptom of having your thought patterns and behaviour
patterns in alignment. You can't out-technique this stuff.
The reason we focus on techniques is that they give you a chance to get a ton of interaction under your belt until you sort it out. There's no way you can sort out your inner game sitting at home saying "I'm the prize, I'm alpha, I'm
sexual" all day long. That's why I meet so many guys who are even MORE annoying than AFCs, because they're lame AFCs who think they're PUAs and try to
bring in all these incongruent behaviour patterns that you can tell they don't have the jam to back up.
So we fix this by going out in the field like crazy. Getting 20 years worth of social interaction under your belt in 2 years. It's like lifting weights. You are working out your social muscles.
OK, so that's the negative. Now here is the positive.
Anybody can get good at this stuff. Yes, even the worst off guy. Anyone who says otherwise is allowing their limiting beliefs to control their thoughts and their outcomes. If I see some rich goodlooking guy getting laid, my first thought reaction isn't to look for EXCUSES of why I can't do what he can do. ARE YOU FUCKING
KIDDING ME?!?!?! I'm looking closely at his behaviour patterns and thinking about how his lifestyle or status has changed his thought patterns and corresponding behaviour patterns, and how I can model that to my advantage.
There is no way I'm looking for excuses about why a guy pulls. That's a lameass way of reinforcing my frame that its not my fault. Like, "Oh, I can
still feel good about myself."
That doesn't mean that I'm going to copy the guy inside and out. Of course not. But I know a ton of rich and goodlooking guys who don't get girls.
The reason why these particular rich or goodlooking guys happen to get girls is because they've taken on the behaviour patterns that attract women, as a result
of their thought patterns, which were probably fueled by some positive reinforcement that their looks and money got them. But in the end of the day, I can still take on those patterns, whether I have their benefits or not. That's my choice.
I am a winner. I have never allowed myself to associate my identity with being a loser. Just because I was a loser at the time didn't mean that I wasn't a
winner waiting to happen. I reinforce this to myself continually. I think about it all the time. I am a winner. I repeat stuff to myself constantly in my head, and my behaviour patterns flow from there.
That means that I HOLD MYSELF TO THE SAME STANDARD AS THE
GOODLOOKING RICH GUYS. I never allowed myself to say "Mystery has magic and height and looks".
YEAH RIGHT!!! IS THAT A BAD JOKE???? That shit is plain *RETARDED*. I can't understand how a guy could allow himself to think that way. I mean, I understand it in abstract like how I understand in abstract that a vagrant could sit out on the street all day begging for change. But I don't understand it in the sense that I could even remotely imagine letting myself think that
way.
I know the danger of it. I know it well. I thought like that until I
was about 15 years old, and it will bullshit. I know that it yields nothing. I know that even if its true, that the thought process itself is nothing but some bullshit that I tell myself to make myself feel better about sucking. I don't care about my emotions and distorting reality to make myself feel good.
I'm not going to say "It's his money and looks" so that I can make an excuse that I don't suck compared to him because its not my fault. I care about just facing that I suck and NOT CARING on an emotional level, but still keeping a logical/emotional disconnect so I know that I logically know that I need to fix it but there's no emotional NEEDINESS to fix it that makes me act like a weirdo.
Then, just working from there to change it. I enjoy the process of
changing it, so that is the end in and of itself. And based on the habits that result from that, I get a positive outcome over the long term.
FUNDAMENTAL UNDERSTANDING: The behaviour pattern / thought pattern combination that creates identity is what attracts women. If a guy has things going for
him, then I will look at how that benefitted his behaviour/thought pattern, and emulate the good parts and discard the many bad parts that don't serve me.
There are no excuses. If you aren't willing to put the time in then quit now. Because ASF is going to torture you. I meet many guys who are tortured by ASF. They get the theory, but can't implement it. They loved it at first, because
they got that initial fix of "It's just a skillset" validation. But from
there, they couldn't maintain that fix, and it fucked them up.
HIGH YIELDING THOUGHT PROCESS: "What can I learn from this?"
EMOTIONALLY SHIELDING THOUGHT PROCESS:
"What can I find in this that
excuses why I couldn't do it and allows me to preserve my identity?
