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Haitian: Skills Structure

KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Mar 27, 2023
Messages
485
@Skills method! If you see anything that needs fixing, I would really appreciate your insight. I didn't really flirt, just kept moving forward since you should stop selling the customer after they agree right? I got 7 matches all early morning after swipe reset, unmatched one. Sent openers at 9:30am Saturday cause I was heading out for the day. Probably too early.

Out of 6 she was my 3rd choice. Three replies including her. Only she panned out. For non replies I put "That bad huh... I am sure you have redeeming qualities beyond your looks right?" 5 hours later. On second look maybe the followup to non answer was too negative, or needed a jk or something after the first sentence to make it playful. I got two other replies to follow up answer, neither panned out.

Me: Good morning (name). How are the guys treating you on here?

Her: Good morning!
What a load question. Let’s just say I’ve seen better days.

Her: How’s your experience here ?

(LR note: One hour later... I was out on foot all day, not glued to phone. From later conversation she actually had a lot of dating success, but also some stories of ridiculous dudes)

Her: I have to say sometime you just got a take chance, put yourself out there, be spontaneous.

(LR note: my short bio included I was visiting for weekend and looking for someone spontaneous)

Her: I did that on a random Wednesday, highlight of my summer so far. The vibes and conversations and everything else was amazing .

Me: That is good to hear you have evened it out and can enjoy the present moment! Personally I cannot complain. So tell me about yourself? What is bon vivant?

(Her bio already listed qualities like funny, kind, Bon vivant)

Her: Im pretty much, what you see is what you get, im pretty straight to point , no bullshit . Life is to short to beat around the bush. I’m down to earth, very understanding person, problems solver, I give great advice . I have fun where ever I am, I’m outgoing

Her: Im a executive in the government field

Me: Those are many great qualities (her name). You seem like someone worth getting to know. What area are you in? How about let's continue in person

Her: I live in (city)

Me: Which part? I am here for the day

Her: Currently (area) till 4. I will be back 4:30
I'm in (area)
It's near downtown
Bon vivant : Life of the party that enjoys the good things in life ( food and wine) refine tastes, well cultivated.

Me: Oh that's good you can allow yourself to enjoy life's pleasures. Sure we can meet around 5 then. Somewhere near you perhaps unless you have any cold drinks at home for a chat.

(LR note: I went straight for the pull because of how hard she was qualifying herself and "life is too short to beat around the bush" I.e. her own sexual frame. I also said "sure" as if she was proposing to meet rather than risking making another ask)

Her: Where are you staying in the city ?

Me: Near (area). You'd like to meet at mine?

(LR note: I purposefully interpreted this as counter logistical ask instead of resistance. Figured her place was not private or something, turned out correct)

Her: Sure, not far at all

Me: Oh great. I may be a little later and can let you know in a bit here, or send me your number to text

Her: ###-###-####

Me: Hello (name), how's 6:30 or so?
-Francis

Her: Yes it perfect

Me: Cool I'll give you a shout in an hour or so

Her: Noted

(LR note: this was awkward but I did not want to time my day to be honest. Could have explained I needed flexibility. Left it for two hours until 6)

Her: Are we still on for?
6:30 ?

Me: Hey I just got to (place for food). Need a quick shower. Could you do just after 7?

Her: Yes
(City) man likes to like to cancel without telling the other party.
Cya a 7:15

Me: Thanks! That's perfect. It's (#### address)

Her: So you will not tell me about yourself before ?

Me: (at 7:15pm exactly by accident lol I lost track of time a bit showering) Of course, we can get to know each other face to face

No answer then she showed up 15 mins or so later in a long light dress, low cut nice big tits. I was sitting on the porch. Exchanged pleasantries, invited her in. Airbnb had no living room, just kitchen table so she came in the bedroom very dim lighting no issue and sat on the bed. I took her coat and hung it.

Talked for a bit mostly about how she likes to travel without set schedules and asks locals what to see. I did not say much beyond encouraging her frames. She seemed to love to talk a lot. At one point she mentioned something about the water being cold somewhere relating it to the air conditioner next to us.

After a couple more minutes I asked if she was cold (she had crossed arms more looking cold than closed body language). I reached over her to turn it off very slowly and very close to her, then kissed her a bit and laid her back on the bed. She had been receptive to a few lingering leg touches during conversation and close talking. I extended the 10 minute rule to maybe 15 or a bit more since she was avoiding eye contact a bit but otherwise very comfortable chatting.

Zero LMR. Fucked for a while. I don't think she came which is rare for me. But right after it she said "wow".

Then she talked a shitload for a while. Here is a wild story not about her, but her friend who lives in her building. The girl lost both parents in her teens and eventually got married to a very well off guy in the middle east. Apparently she saw DYNAMITE in his house and several passports. Never asked questions. One day in an airport traveling alone she was stopped by INTERPOL and told the guy had a fake name. He was out of town and she left, never seeing him again. He sent two friends to her and STABBED her, left for dead in an alley so she would not testify. Ten years later she still walks around with a gun and a brass knuckle type of knife ring weapon. She caged her balcony and put up cameras. We should start a thread of wild pillow talk stories.

We were lying next to each other pillow talking but no touch actually. I think all her talking got her really comfortable or something because round two she was significantly wetter. Perhaps nervous first round having arrived for a hookup and not talking too long, given lack of eye contact noted above.

After that I pulled her in for a cuddle, full frontal skin contact and we were mutually touching and scratching each other's backs. She is a pretty adventurous girl who goes drinking with her guy friends at strip clubs. Girls like cuddles!

She would just not stop talking lol I did not even deep dive. Maybe most guys are not good active listeners or make counter points or something? I often get told I am easy to talk to. She also mentioned a lot of guys online are submissive and ask for her to dominate them. One was a CFO. She was confused why they ask her because she has no interest or indicator on her bio. Maybe because she is no nonsense and says what she thinks.

I had to eventually tell her I was tired and wake up really early. Walked her to the door, kissed goodnight and she wished me safe travels.
 

KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Mar 27, 2023
Messages
485
For reference

 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
4,611
. For non replies I put "That bad huh... I am sure you have redeeming qualities beyond your looks right?" 5 hours later. On second look maybe the followup to non answer was too negative, or needed a jk or something after the first sentence to make it playful. I got two other replies to follow up answer, neither panned out.

^ good job, for no replies to openers i would not do this, cause a bit but hurt sub..... you could do instead: "How you look at my profile and no say hi, not hot enough for you, probably for the best.... We would not get along anyways! We would have too much fun together"

^ a bit more flirty and playful sub vs butthurt sub....


Her: So you will not tell me about yourself before ?

Sure, my name is francis i enjoy working out,fashion, reading self help, martial arts, when i meet people they tend to really enjoy my company and my vibes, they usually feel comfortable trusting me and open it up to me, i help people buy, refinance and save their home from foreclosueres (a cool description of your profession that dhv), but my main profession is i have a crush on "haitian girl" please don't tell her.... Cya at 7:15

You do seem to freestyle a bit, but is ok you got the lay... But in like my optimal post you want to be optimal, so you can convert a bit more of the yellowish women....

^ optimization is for the yellowish, neutral women to go greenish.... But for greens this was good enough...congrats!
 
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KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Mar 27, 2023
Messages
485
Gracias @Skills !!! So the follow up is like a challenge with a lot of push pull. Is "not hot enough" not butthurt and frame of her as the assessor?

And the response about yourself is a lot of qualifying. I assume you only do that balanced with how much she does. Seems very direct interest flirting style with cocky funny. I guess you personally need to increase attainability more than most due to relative value with her. I've seen you chase frame elsewhere too, like to the effect of "what do you do when you're not thinking of me" etc.

One part I missed in your structure was qualifying her as safe, which is cool flipping back what her concern would be. And you soft close (seed the meet) before moving off the app, right? I don't understand the banter process though. See I just skipped it and combined the opener and "treating you" question lol

Open or get open
minimally banter or statement
"how are guys treating you here"
qualify
move off app
regular texting

I think I need a micro framework for bantering. Like it basically comes down to building arousal. We know attraction triggers, but what are arousal triggers - basically dominance displays and spiking emotions? So essential elements would be what... polarization, which is screening for sexual openness through chase framing teases? And cold reads?

See here is the entirety of my messages. It is pretty dry like talking to a man. If green means you can hit the gas, then yellow means resistance, which requires dominance... Meaning bantering = sexual frame battle. So the whole strategy of early conversation can be boiled down to tease/chase frame and cold read to draw her into your sexual frame? If she is not compliant with at least some level of a sexual frame from the start, then move on instead of qualify. In this case she did the framing because we jumped to qualifying due to the bio acting as a screen.

Therefore, my model of seduction would be:

  1. Hi, you want me don't you?
  2. No? Yes you do.
  3. Should I want you too?
  4. Ok let's go

* * *

Me: Good morning (name). How are the guys treating you on here?

Me: That is good to hear you have evened it out and can enjoy the present moment! Personally I cannot complain. So tell me about yourself? What is bon vivant?

Me: Those are many great qualities (her name). You seem like someone worth getting to know. What area are you in? How about let's continue in person

Me: Which part? I am here for the day

Me: Oh that's good you can allow yourself to enjoy life's pleasures. Sure we can meet around 5 then. Somewhere near you perhaps unless you have any cold drinks at home for a chat.

Me: Near (area). You'd like to meet at mine?

Me: Oh great. I may be a little later and can let you know in a bit here, or send me your number to text

Me: Hello (name), how's 6:30 or so?
-Francis

Me: Cool I'll give you a shout in an hour or so

Me: Hey I just got to (place for food). Need a quick shower. Could you do just after 7?

Me: Thanks! That's perfect. It's (#### address)

Me: Of course, we can get to know each other face to face
 
the right date makes getting her back home a piece of cake

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
4,611
Gracias @Skills !!! So the follow up is like a challenge with a lot of push pull. Is "not hot enough" not butthurt and frame of her as the assessor?

It comes across as butt hurt, maybe you can't see it, but it comes out wrong, what you think it comes across is irrelevant is coming across butthurt, or if you disagree does not matter DOES NOT WORK as you could see yourself.... what i told you has higher odds... You look at things too deep, and write total wrong diagnosis... is not that deep... Try tp de-autisimize...
And the response about yourself is a lot of qualifying. I assume you only do that balanced with how much she does. Seems very direct interest flirting style with cocky funny. I guess you personally need to increase attainability more than most due to relative value with her. I've seen you chase frame elsewhere too, like to the effect of "what do you do when you're not thinking of me" etc.
^ there is not qualifying due to timing, she was asking you tell me about yourself (is comfort based question no attainability question brah), so with that answer you DHV, and at the end you flirt, (i get that question a lot about "what do you do?" online you will get that question so the answer you answer in a way to dhv yourself and then at the end you flirt "but my real profession is Suzzie future lover" so that way is not a generic boring what do you do stuff... that question you will always get online..
One part I missed in your structure was qualifying her as safe, which is cool flipping back what her concern would be. And you soft close (seed the meet) before moving off the app, right? I don't understand the banter process though. See I just skipped it and combined the opener and "treating you" question lol

The banter process is here:
https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...rson-gaming-and-digital-gaming-texting.26680/

I think I need a micro framework for bantering. Like it basically comes down to building arousal. We know attraction triggers, but what are arousal triggers - basically dominance displays and spiking emotions? So essential elements would be what... polarization, which is screening for sexual openness through chase framing teases? And cold reads?
no read the guide on banter i just posted
See here is the entirety of my messages. It is pretty dry like talking to a man. If green means you can hit the gas, then yellow means resistance, which requires dominance... Meaning bantering = sexual frame battle. So the whole strategy of early conversation can be boiled down to tease/chase frame and cold read to draw her into your sexual frame? If she is not compliant with at least some level of a sexual frame from the start, then move on instead of qualify. In this case she did the framing because we jumped to qualifying due to the bio acting as a screen.

Total mental gymnastic, read the how to flirt guide... bro re-read the post on online 101 i told you is more like a sale funnel.... look at pob sample follows the structure, i don't understand why you insist in mental gymnastics... Online is not regular seduction.... You do the regular seduction in person....
Therefore, my model of seduction would be:

  1. Hi, you want me don't you?
  2. No? Yes you do.
  3. Should I want you too?
  4. Ok let's go

^ no
* * *

Me: Good morning (name). How are the guys treating you on here?

no... Open (goal of opener is to get a response), then after she respond then that is a transition question to get a feel and the interaction going... don't open with how guys are treating you on here? it subs fake rapport, timing off...

Me: That is good to hear you have evened it out and can enjoy the present moment! Personally I cannot complain. So tell me about yourself? What is bon vivant?

Me: Those are many great qualities (her name). You seem like someone worth getting to know. What area are you in? How about let's continue in person

^ you seem "safe and someone worth getting to know" i would not hard close right away, again this will work with super green, may give you issues with yellowish.... here is for context https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...-hard-close-or-more-aggressive-texting.28191/


Me: Which part? I am here for the day

Me: Oh that's good you can allow yourself to enjoy life's pleasures. Sure we can meet around 5 then. Somewhere near you perhaps unless you have any cold drinks at home for a chat.

Me: Near (area). You'd like to meet at mine?

Me: Oh great. I may be a little later and can let you know in a bit here, or send me your number to text

Me: Hello (name), how's 6:30 or so?
-Francis

Me: Cool I'll give you a shout in an hour or so

Me: Hey I just got to (place for food). Need a quick shower. Could you do just after 7?

Me: Thanks! That's perfect. It's (#### address)

Me: Of course, we can get to know each other face to face
^ this will work with more of the greenish, it won't work with a lot of the yellowish.. but there are plenty of greenish you may leave a lot of the yellowish on the table (yellowish USUALLY NOT ALWAYS tend to be hotter and higher demand)... But keep trying stuff and field testing.... Just don't over mentally masturbate "qualifying, dominance blha blah" mental masturbation, when it comes to online... You want to subcommunicate "cool guy" "safe" "fun/humor" "no creeper" "socially competent" that is it...
 

KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Mar 27, 2023
Messages
485
@Skills

I know my follow up looks butt hurt! That's why I was surprised you suggested "am I not hot enough for you" because that also sounds butt hurt. Then I mean "we would not get along because we'd have too much fun" sounds like push pull. Logically it does not even make sense lol not saying bad at all, it's just female style communication. Other than Chase and other GC writers like Ricardus, Alek, etc., I mostly only read old school Franco. He says yin communication emotions and sensory descriptions arouse because women evolved to be bisexual when the men left the caves and went to war. So it will be unnatural for the male mind and you have to constantly balance it out with yang communication I.e. leading, moving forward boldly.

Going deep is literally why this stuff is interesting. It's all psychology that connects to making babies. Chase is out here footnoting with scientific studies left and right. It is helpful to connect everything back to that for efficiency and having a mental model to make sense of the world through. So whatever girls throw at you can be boiled down to the essential concepts. Every word of your second paragraph makes total sense, thank you. I still think she is screening for safety and you are qualifying to her for those qualities. Nothing wrong with that if the investment is balanced between you.

Your flirt guide is consistent with my "wtf is banter" problem. You are chase framing with the pizza, she rejects the frame and calls you delusional, then you say "yeah right" (frame dominance). Sure we are selling good feelings, but I think it all comes down to "is this a seed I want in my uterus". Hector has written about "pleasure". Well why exactly did we evolve to enjoy sex? Continuation of the species. What kind of babies does she want? A winner. What is winning? Dominance (and pro social behavior, leading the group to win... As you are doing with us here).

So you open like a ping with no question and then wait as to not force rapport? Ok.

And ok so it really comes down to photos and not tripping any trip wires, look normal, fun etc. Seduction in person.

Your flirting style is very forward with a lot of your fun personality. I am simply wanting to understand the WHY of it working so I can be congruent with my personality, which is much quieter low energy. I am not trying to buck the structure, I am just trying to understand the banter part of the structure at a deeper level (which I do think is about dominating the frame to be a sexual one. Isn't all of seduction about overcoming her resistance tests as proof your seed is worthy?).

I know I need to be fun and add humor. That is like the major thing Ross Jeffries and Mystery agree on, that good seductions have a laugh track (in my mind this is to not let tension bubble over because you are a sexual threat, meeting her to put p in v and owning it). But if you think of the freewheeling Prince vs the King on the throne... Or the guy in a blazer in a low lit lounge, is he going to be doing Grandmaster style? Who is suave style... Cosy, Cody Lyans?

I am just trying to find a balance to do day game with young girls like Tony Depp (amazing) but less golden retriever here to lick your pussy, more sly fox luring you in his cave, while staying away from moody guy vibes. We're approaching fall... I don't like scarves, but think autumn leaves, book bag girl, wool coats... Romance!

So anyways, I appreciate the help. My best learning is always "slap in the face" moments like 60yoc "these girls don't love you bro" type wakeup calls.
 
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