Help me understand Bacchus/Gun early (hook) game

[Tank]

I get the general point:
1) you try to manufacture a chance encounter type situation, that you see in romantic movies and so on
2) you can get girls hotter than your fundamentals/smv but avoiding breaking the "social frame", i.e., putting her in a situation to be able to evaluate you consciously relative to other suitors, since you've never explicitly stated a man - woman frame

Now to me especially #1 is done with something as described here:

How to Use Indirect Game to Get Girls

Over in the comments section of the post on how to get a girl's phone number, Hunter asked for a review of indirect game: “Hey Chase, I'm so glad you got to this, I actually had an exact question about phone numbers only to have you answer it with finesse! I was pondering however about the...

www.girlschase.com

Characterized by:
1) a natural insightful observation about the environment (thus the social plausible deniability)
2) quick back and forth dialogue, clearly (honest signals) indicating you have game rather than using memorized routines
3) witty "charged" dialogue allowing plenty of room for subtle innuendo mixed with sexual state projection and so on

This I understand, I can envision, and to me is what characterizes steamy scenes in movies and literature. It is high skill and I'm intending to really work and cultivate this skill to do this sort of thing.
However, it's clearly limited to the stationary girl scenario, essentially indoors (cafe bookstore etc)
which of course also allows for paimai and all that. I get it, this makes sense and I know I should be, and I have planned to methodically work on this sort of thing.



But when I look at Bacchus style openers I see two trends,
1) Inane comment, such as about the weather. Since every single instance of this happening on the planet of the earth, commenting on the weather is an extremely obvious and transparent way to start a conversation with a stranger (and yes sometimes that's fine to just be a social guy, like you're waiting for the bus and a dude is nearby and you want to fill your time with something interesting) to be transparent but with women transparent = he's trying to hit on me) every single time I've seen this done, there is an underlying energy I notice she feels "oh he is just using this to try to talk to me because he likes me and can't think of anything else"
it's the same exact thing as I've seen many many times of guys opening night street sets with "hey we're new here can you recommend some clubs" I can literally feel the energy of "oh another guy who's just pretending to now know where to go out to so he can talk to us" emanating from the girls it's just glaringly obvious to me

In day street game this would be the "ask for directions" then cold read her opener, and for the life of me I have never seen, nor can I ever imagine in my mind any possible situation where she is not thinking "oh this was just a weak ruse to talk to me"

2) Immediately opening with rich descriptions and NLP: "have you ever noticed how when...you feel....and....." format. Now, in terms of once you're hooked and the energy has dialed down to be at an authentic deep serious level, I totally get it, this is dynamite, I'm all for it, I've used it a bit and want to keep using this sort of emotional reality pacing. I'm glad this sort of material is here to really help me with my mid-game.
But I'm sorry I really really don't understand how this is pulled off in either a daygame or nightgame scenario. It seems to hook you need to match her emotional state, not so much the content of her mind. So in night game that means open playfully because she is having fun, and in daygame either the literal pacing what is happening prior to the direct or direct pushpull opener "you were walking I was seeing etc. etc", or if she's stationary commenting on what she is looking at, but just in a quick but hopefully insightful way.
Again it's unfortunate there are no infield videos of this in practice, but I really can't envision in my mind how to pull this off and getting any reaction other than "wtf is this philosophical shit" it feels like too much of a state leap.


The one thing I do get that Gun talks about is at night or stationary in the day "oh do you know who you look like?" and some celebrity, OK that also makes sense and seems to be a nice way to open indirectly, you can even make up a small time B list actress or something if she doesn't look like anyway.

(although the idea of opening with you look like my ex sounds really cringey to me, again, so I am still partially confused here as well)


But for moving street game I don't really see how this sort of thing can be done

Can someone please explain? I'm sure there is something I am just not understanding in terms of the social intuition and frame behind it

 

[Skills]

As i told you if you want samples of that type of game check out lofty journal, it has a pretty good view of it: https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/searching-for-cirrus.23470/

Originally posted by Bacchus View Post
Alright, I started the thread so I should probably go first. Anyone who's read my reports will know how I hook, but here it is again anyway.

I'd do a standard hover. Then open with "how's your night going" only turning my head to face her. Most girls tend to answer this question with "good" then return it back to me.

I'd then reply slowly with something kinda intriguing, "kinda so-so... I'm still trying to get used too the night life in this city."

Then a pause to let her respond and she if she takes the bait. If she does not I'll follow up with, "you know that feeling when you're in a new city and still trying to getting a feel for everything, the city, the people, all that... so everything is a little new and exciting, that's me at the moment."

Most girls reply with something stating they know what that feeling is like, then they ask me where I'm from. I reply saying "take a wild guess." Leading to her give me a careful look as she rattles off a few guesses based on my look and accent. I might offer to give her a hint if she says she's bad at guessing or something like that.

Once she guesses it or I tell her after a couple wrong guesses, she might follow up with usual questions on that topic such as "why did you move here?" I'll cover that conversation route in another reply since I do this intrigue / conversation-bait in a number of different scenarios.

So for this scenario let's say she just responds with something like "oh wow that's cool" since that happens a good portion of the time as well.

I then ask her "so what's something you do, that you enjoy besides sleeping, eating and partying." A lot of girls giggle, then mention what they study or a hobby of theirs. I ask them what they like about it / how does it feel when they're doing X activity. And I listen with strong eye contact as she goes on to answer that question.

After which she returns the question to me, and I tell her that I paint. The hook-point is pretty much reached at this point or sometime before. Most girls start asking me questions about painting / sketching which leads me to respond with emotional simulators.

I'd sit on the bench, without looking in her direction, fully focused on my phone. Standard hover. Not too close but within ear-shot.

After a couple moments I'd say "wow, still can't believe how hot it gets in this city." Turning just my head to face her while my body isn't to give a more casual feel to the approach. Most girls would reply with something along the lines of "yeah it does get pretty warm." I'd follow up with "yeah, you know it's funny but when I was planning to move to Canada, everyone back home kept going 'don't go to Canada it's soo cold' but I get here and it's warm."

A lot of the time I don't even get to finish that sentences, girls regularly interrupt to ask where I'm from. From there it's similar to the above with the guessing game. Let's say in this case, and this is more likely to happen in day-game scenarios, she asks me why I moved here.

I tell her "i got tired of hanging out with the same people, going to the same places... it was like life had become a pattern of doing the same thing over and over again, does that make sense? yeah you get to this point where you just need a change, something new, so I moved."

She might ask me if I moved with my family / if I moved alone. I'd respond with, "yeah, I moved alone it was sort of scary at first, since you don't know anyone around, but at the same time, since you don't know anyone, you're free to do whatever you like, be whoever you want, you don't have to worry about what anyone else thinks."

After that point I go straight into a gambit on the topic of travelling, ("say you won the lottery and you could go anywhere in the world, where would you go?") which allows me to follow up with some covert sexual frames and emotional simulators on that topic. Hook point is reached around this point or sometime before.

 

[Gunwitch]

Right off the bat your tone comes off really accusatory and I don't like it.

Second you use all these phrases like "makes sense" "seems to be" "sounds cringey" which betrays you aren't field testing this stuff. If you were you would KNOW (not seem, not think, not sounds like) what works, what doesn't and would be already using your own language that doesn't "sound cringey" via the CONCEPTS not exact wording. It's just KJing when someone who hasn't tried something yet, throws the baby out with the bathwater because they don't like the sentence or wording structure.

I don't know what your level of intelligence is, but I can vouch that Bacchus and I both have creative genius in the field. You aren't getting paid to think here, we ARE. We then test these things hundreds of times and refine them, then present them to the community. You are supposed to have a passion for the game and TRY SHIT and work it until you get good.

You are wanting it all put together in a package that requires no practice to BUILD the social intuition you are asking about.

Stop trying to understand and instead WORK the materials/concepts out on your own. Or if you are gonna ask for help at least don't call someones example (one that insta hooks like crazy BTW) cringey like a social retard.


Gun

 

[Velasco]

In day street game this would be the "ask for directions" then cold read her opener, and for the life of me I have never seen, nor can I ever imagine in my mind any possible situation where she is not thinking "oh this was just a weak ruse to talk to me"

In that "indirect/direct observations from the 30 day challenges" post, I split up girls into 4 categories (which I think is better than the more limited 'traffic light system', but its still a model) based on interest (which depends on your looks+vibe. And varies from her being mildly interested in you ("yellows") to very interested in you (its here where guys will say they didn't need "game" to fuck girls)) / availability.

1) Single and interested
2) Single and uninterested
3) Taken and interested
4) Taken and uninterested

The girls that respond well to any openers (....as long as you have an ounce of social intelligence) besides statement of intent openers...which might only hook girls in category1)...cold reads, situational openers,etc...are girls that are interested (girls in category1 and 3).

After getting a conversation started with a receptive set, you'd want to (indirectly) find out her availability (ideally sooner rather than later). Does she have a man? And how into her man is she? If it's not that strong ("he's such a nice guy"), then know...that an SNL is possible...game on (might have to set some Anti-ASD frames tho). if it is strong, then it might be best to number close her and play the long game, if you wish.

P.S. can u post a girl who you think is or above an 8? always been curious lol. thx

 

[Skills]

In that "indirect/direct observations from the 30 day challenges" post, I split up girls into 4 categories (which I think is better than the more limited 'traffic light system', but its still a model) based on interest (which depends on your looks+vibe. And varies from her being mildly interested in you ("yellows") to very interested in you (its here where guys will say they didn't need "game" to fuck girls)) / availability.

1) Single and interested
2) Single and uninterested
3) Taken and interested
4) Taken and uninterested

The girls that respond well to any openers (....as long as you have an ounce of social intelligence) besides statement of intent openers...which might only hook girls in category1)...cold reads, situational openers,etc...are girls that are interested (girls in category1 and 3).

After getting a conversation started with a receptive set, you'd want to (indirectly) find out her availability (ideally sooner rather than later). Does she have a man? And how into her man is she? If it's not that strong ("he's such a nice guy"), then know...that an SNL is possible...game on (might have to set some Anti-ASD frames tho). if it is strong, then it might be best to number close her and play the long game, if you wish.

P.S. can u post a girl who you think is or above an 8? always been curious lol. thx

he likes #5 here: http://www.theskillsmethod.com/different-womens-body-types-top-players-attracted/

 

[Bismarck]

Tank,

As sparxx/Carousel said some time ago with a similar musing thread of yours on here, this forum isn't a place for you to ponder or consider what lies within the realm of possibility. This is a place for guys who want to learn how to seduce beautiful women - above them on the looks scale - without LMS.

It's meant to be a field testing dojo.

So, instead of value leeching - polluting the minds of those actually making an effort to understand how women work as opposed to watching Richard Cooper videos - the only way for you to find out if Gun's "cringey" tech which made Bacc become the best new seducer using NLP since Teev, and is now helping Lofty finger dimes in 10 minutes on the street, is to get out there and try it.

Disclaimer: it may be that you are simply not able to grasp how this works due to your autism. In that case, stick to Tinder 6s. And maybe, as sparxx suggested, this forum isn't for you.