How Honest are you socially?

[Mr.Rob]

Hey I want to get your guys thoughts on the subject of authenticity and honesty in all situations.

I will give an example to illustrate my point and I want to hear your thoughts on how you personally esteem yourself to handle such a situation socially.

Let's say you meet a really cool guy that has his life in order and is doing cool shit with his life. You guys hit it off and you see an opportunity for a mutual value exchange in friendship with one another.

You're hanging out and getting to know each other and he starts talking about how he uses his corporate credit card from his company unethically to take out girls on dates.

You don't agree with this nor find it impressing nor funny.

What do you do?

I had this exact situation come up recently and I did not handle it in a way I would've preferred looking back on my action.

Curious to how you guys would esteem yourselves to address this situation.

 

[Drck]

He's a thief, and stupid one because he openly talks about it.

Why would you want to associate yourself with him? Say you become good friends, you will be going out together and so on. Chances are that he might be stealing more and more as time goes, and then one day he will be caught. Managers and owners are not stupid, they may not check the credit card balances every time but they may do it once in a while. What then? You will be associated with him, many people will blindly consider you the same...

I've associated myself once with a thief, ehm, with my best friend at that time. nevertheless, those things will just stick with you for long time, it will become a spot on your name... Knowing him for many years and looking back, I should have dumped him at the moment I found out...

 

[Mr.Rob]

Why would you want to associate yourself with him?

Totally agree and I appreciate your answer Drck. Since I have also been associated with thieves in the past and agree on the reputation management and overall character association determining your own character.

However my question is not asking if I should further pursue the relationship. I want to know how you personally would address this socially at the time it comes up.

Personally my preferred way to handle this situation is to bluntly express my distaste for their behavior they are boasting about and deflate their ego even though two minutes ago we were getting along great. I think this is along the lines of knowing yourself and value system and sticking up for what you believe in so you don't forget it yourself. Plus I think it serves as a good thought exercise for the other person to rethink their actions.

Unfortunately I held my tongue, nodded along while thinking to myself that I completely disagree, and then changed the subject.

So how would you typically address these social situations?

 

[Drck]

It really depends on overall situation. For example:

* He works for different company that I don't know at all thus don't care about - I would just drop the contact with him, or keep it to minimum. No confrontation, no moralizing, no explanation because I have nothing to gain and nothing to lose. You are simply not a White Knight, Savior, Moralist... you are not trying to save or correct the whole world, you are not a preacher who teaches others to behave...

* We work for the same company, but I don't really care much about the company overall: I would try to make a 'hinting' distinction between myself and him, then walk away. For example: Raise my eyebrows and say something simple like "Dude, you shouldn't really do it, that's not legal", then sort of start blocking any further attempts for friendship. I would still have to see that person because we work together, and I would maintain sort of professional friendship, yet at the same time I would distance myself from that guy on personal level. In this scenario I may not gain much by saying something to the supervisors, but I may lose a lot by being his friend. I am not a White Knight, but at the same time I am protecting myself, my job, my name...

* We work for the same company, and I really care a lot about the company (I want to stay there long time and perhaps I am climbing the ladder and want to become supervisor myself): I would do/say the same as above and I would probably let him know that I am seeking higher position within the company. This way he should get the message "beware". Plus I would be seeking friendship among the supervisors. I would also try some 'hinting' to the supervisors without directly pointing to that guy: Hey guys, how do you do ABC? How do you manage XYZ? And what if somebody is using company credit cards for personal purposes, how would you deal with it? The 'hint' should be strong enough so the supervisor should start thinking something like: "Ah, good point, I better check the credit card expenses again, just to make sure that nobody is abusing it". Then he/she would ideally find out on his/her own that somebody is abusing the cards... If they don't find out it's probably that they don't care enough... Think about it, if it was your company and your money, and you were giving credit cards to your employees - wouldn't you check the spending here and there? I would. I am also not a Savior, but I do give lots of shit about my job, my true friends, or great professional associates...

-----

So I went from "I don't care at all" approach to being more involved, perhaps more assertive, based on the situation I am in. Generally speaking, I am usually avoiding direct confrontations as I rather try to practice Peace and Abundance Mentality: "Hey, you are a cool dude (or cute girl) but there is just something that doesn't vibe. So, have a Nice Life...". At the same time, if it was my company or company of my close friend that I care about, I would become more confrontational: "Dude, you can't do that. How much did you spent? When? Why didn't you use your money?" Then let him explain. I would definitely tell my FRIEND or my good professional associate...

The reason is, I believe that you always want to keep your "good friends" or "good professional associates" close, you always want to show that you care and that you are concerned. Ideally do the same for the company you work for (even if shitty company), even though you are not really doing it for them - you are doing it for you, you are building true VALUES such as Honesty for your Name...

Build true Values first, and the Right friends will eventually show up - without you seeking them...

 

[Mr.Rob]

No confrontation, no moralizing, no explanation because I have nothing to gain and nothing to lose. You are simply not a White Knight, Savior, Moralist... you are not trying to save or correct the whole world, you are not a preacher who teaches others to behave...

I have no desire to white knight and show someone ill fated the "light" via moral condemnation. My motivation for giving said person my honest opinion is for my own sake in speaking my mind. Rather than nod along, change the subject, and then proceed to cut contact with this gentleman. Thus creating this fake veneer of "I'm too busy to hang out" excuses until the other party gets the point. That's what women do.

No I'd much prefer to let people know bluntly of my distaste for their values coming from a place of still respecting that other persons stance and without trying to change their view. If my and someone else's world views simply do not align and that fine, and in fact most will not align.

This method of directness settles everything immediately without having to indirectly bypass your now awkward association with said person when you see each other again. They know why you aren't going to hang out with them and theirs are no more awkward moments of the "elephant being in the room" so to speak.

You seem like a pretty direct person though Drck and I always appreciated that from you in your posts. Although I see your point being that this is a rather useless approach and can potentially stir up unnecessary drama in your life. That I understand and appreciate as well, however for where I'm at in my life I currently endeavor for direct honesty in my dealings with people to demonstrate I expect the same behavior from them towards me.

-Rob

 

[Mystique]

I have no desire to white knight and
show someone ill fated the "light" via
moral condemnation. My motivation
for giving said person my honest
opinion is for my own sake in
speaking my mind. Rather than nod
along, change the subject, and then
proceed to cut contact with this
gentleman. Thus creating this fake
veneer of "I'm too busy to hang out"
excuses until the other party gets the
point. That's what women do.
No I'd much prefer to let people
know bluntly of my distaste for their
values coming from a place of still
respecting that other persons stance
and without trying to change their
view. If my and someone else's world
views simply do not align and that
fine, and in fact most will not align.
This method of directness settles
everything immediately without
having to indirectly bypass your now
awkward association with said
person when you see each other
again. They know why you aren't
going to hang out with them and
theirs are no more awkward moments
of the "elephant being in the room"
so to speak.
You seem like a pretty direct person
though Drck and I always appreciated
that from you in your posts. Although
I see your point being that this is a
rather useless approach and can
potentially stir up unnecessary drama
in your life. That I understand and
appreciate as well, however for
where I'm at in my life I currently
endeavor for direct honesty in my
dealings with people to demonstrate
I expect the same behavior from
them towards me.
-Rob

I think it makes sense to be direct. Growing up I had this problem of confronting issues head on even when people said stuffs that were insulting or not true about me or when people did stuffs that I did not like. I would hardly confront them. Another thing was I would hardly voice my opinion when people were talking about a particular topic. The worst of it was that I hardly confronted guys that were always lying. You know, compulsive fliers. I'd just nod and pretend to believe their story. I have long discovered that it's harmful and that charismatic people would handle it differently. They'd call out your bullshit. The most successful people are very direct and opinionated. However I have seen many guys taking it to the extreme. I'm working on being direct and calling out people's (charismatic people) bullshit. As for being opinionated, I'm training myself to be able to verbally support my views and hold frame control. Until I'm able to make my elder brother (who is also a natural) bend frame using verbal prowess, then I'm far from achieving my goal. That dude can verbally make what's wrong right and what's right wrong. Well I don't think you handled it badly. You didn't necessarily have to call him out here and you can simply choose to not spend time with him if you don't like his personality.

 

[Drck]

It's like here on GC, I could be easily confronting many guys, but is there a reason? It doesn't go anywhere, many people get offended even with rational approach to discussion.

 

[Lotus]

Drck,

It's like here on GC, I could be easily confronting many guys, but is there a reason? It doesn't go anywhere, many people get offended even with rational approach to discussion.

I do wish there was more frank discussion, but yeah as we witnessed this week some people can't handle it.

Ps- if I ever do it, someone pull my head out of my ass

Lotus