How important are beliefs?

[Jan]

According to my experience, when talking about beliefs people tend to polarize quite a lot. Some people are very pro beliefs (thinking about hard-core law of attraction aka do nothing and just wait until you attract what you want). Other, completely discard this notion claiming that law of attraction is a complete New Age bullshit, mostly associated with lazy and naive bums looking for fantasy justification for their no-action.

Personally, I'm more of a gradual progress through action, experience and continuous improvement type of guy. I would say that I've rather under-prioritised the belief part.

But is it really a good idea?

I would like to argue here that beliefs are actually VERY IMPORTANT. I don' say to you: "Believe you are a world class seducer, do nothing just wait and you will get all the chicks you want." I say "Beliefs are VERY IMPORTANT, but if you don't fix it/improve it and simply take massive action, it's not gonna work. You will make progress, but it's gonna be slow and there will be certain blocks which you will never conquer."

Let me tell you why I think this way:

1. Let's start with the opposite side of the coin. If you don't think beliefs have a strong influence on you, think about the guy who believes all the worst about himself. He beliefs that he is a complete failure, he believes he can't approach, he can't talk to a woman, all women despise him, he will never get any girl." I'm pretty sure it's obvious for everyone that this guy CAN'T SUCCEED. Really, even if there was a girl who was genetically perfect match with him, in her ovulation period, DTF, perfect timing, even if she was all over him from the get go, he will still reject himself or her. That's because the seduction takes time, and every second it's an opportunity for his beliefs to tell him to fuck it up and prove that his beliefs are correct.

For me personally this is enough of a proof how influential beliefs are on our actions and results. If negative beliefs can self-sabotage you every second, similarly great beliefs can prop you up all the time.

2. From my personal experience. I've been changing my beliefs gradually. I would need proof first. And I did get a lot of proof. I had plenty of success with women. More women, better calibre of women, more ease in approaching and during seduction. However, this was always this way: I could only change my beliefs about myself if I've proven to myself that I can do it. Or that I'm certain way. However, I'm questioning this now. What if this can be reversed. Install the beliefs first and then act on them like they are fact. Or at least, believe that you WILL 100% become what you want to be soon.

3. I've heard from several people from the community that simple inner work, focused on affirmations had tremendous (however temporary) effect on them. You know, things like, women all of a sudden paying a lot of attention to them, chicks approaching them, doing or saying stuff they didn't say before. Why was the effect temporary though? It could very easily be that they did their inner work once, got some results and then forgot about it, or stopped doing it. So the beliefs didn't stick. What if inner work is the same as gym work? Yeah, little bit of training will get you some results but only consistent work over a long period of time will give you consistent progress and consistent results.

4. Finally, I've heard from many top level seducers/coaches that inner game is super important.

Ok, finally. I know that Girlschase, Skilled Seducer is more about outer game, fundamentals, techniques, female psychology, social calibration, etc. I don't question the validity of any of these. Learned from it, love it. But I feel like inner game is somehow a lower priority here. Is it? Or maybe I missed it because I didn't BELIEVE that it was so important.

Please share your personal experience and knowledge about power of beliefs (or lack thereof). How important are beliefs for you? How did you work on your beliefs (hypnosis, self-affirmation, psycho-therapy)? Anything else...

 

[Chase]

@Jan,

Beliefs and action are intertwined.

If you lack sufficient belief to get into action, you will not be able to get into action, and you end up stuck in inaction.

If you lack sufficient belief to believe you can correct your actions and self-improve, you will not do that either, and end up stuck in a rut.

By the same token, all belief is the result of experiences an individual has had, which comes from action of some sort (even if it's just consuming some media put out by some other person) filtered through the individual's own perceptual filters.

It seems to me you must have at least one of these beliefs to throw yourself into approaching and picking up girls:

1. "I'm an attractive guy and lots of girls want me." If you already have this belief, it's easy to dive into it. However, if reality gives you a (seemingly) quick, hard slap in the face (i.e., a string of rejections), and this belief was not firmly anchored, it may be hard to hold onto, and you'll slide into inaction.
   
   
2. "If I talk to enough girls, I'll find one who likes me and get the girl." This belief will also push you into action. Whether reality breaks it or not depends on how many girls you were expecting to have to talk to to find the girl + how soon you encounter a girl you hit it off with.
   
   
3. "If I approach this woman thing systematically, I will figure it out over time and improve." This to me is the most robust belief, able to weather those initial rejections. However a lot of guys do not have this improvement-oriented mentality; it seems like you have to have already had the experience of learning a skill to a high degree, or of having played some kind of skill-building role-playing game at least that gave you the mentality of "gradual progression with a skill."

The stress between actions and belief is that you need enough belief to get into initial action, but then you need your action to produce positive feedback before it's too late and the belief degrades.

There are things guys due to buff up their belief in themselves that are NOT direct action with women -- i.e., the 'action' they take are affirmations, visualizations, exciting music, watching videos that inspire them, etc. These things can help but the effects tend to be very temporary and are quickly displaced by real world feedback.

If you ask me, the most important thing is getting a guy out talking to women directly, with small, attainable goals he can easily achieve with a little work, so that he is right away getting positive feedback from his actions and his beliefs are reinforced so he can keep taking action.

Most guys either don't have the beliefs that'll get them into action at all, or they have fragile/unrealistic beliefs soon shattered by reality not long after they jump into action. Either way, whether you lack the belief or have shattered beliefs, you will find yourself in inaction... and without action you will not build robust beliefs.

If I encountered a totally unmotivated guy who simply could not approach women, because he had zero belief he could do it, but he wanted to (just no ability to get himself to), I would probably recommend he either start learning a musical instrument or playing a skill-building role-playing video game where the skills are built through practice of the skill itself (and not through distributing level up points or anything), as well as read Geoff Colvin's book Talent Is Overrated plus the Harvard white paper it's based upon.

The hope there would be he could get enough skill-building reference points through his own experiences and reading about others that he would start to realize everything in life is skills... including talking to women... including picking them up... and with that thought in mind he could begin approaching gradual improvement with women in a methodical way (instead of trying here and there then giving up in discouragement when unrealistic beginner beliefs weren't met).

Chase

 

[TestY]

Gold from Chase here. And we can find this same view in the classical Greco-Roman world, and even in early Buddhism. I'll mention some of the sources I find especially interesting, also with reference to Chase's earlier article on philosophy etc.

A Greco-Roman skill-based approach to action: art/craft vs. science
For those into philosophy, Pierre Hadot's "Philosophy as a Way of life" critiques modern philosophy as being overly theoretical, and that real [classical, Greco-Roman] philosophy, and especially virtue ethics, is to be practiced like an exercise, and can be likened to training a skill. That is because virtue is more like an "art" (in the classical sense of craft/skill) than a science. Massimo Pigliucci recently released the book "The Quest for Character", and in it, he refers to a conversation between Socrates and the Sophist Protagoras, where Protagoras likens virtue to a skill, exemplified by the process of learning to play a musical instrument:

However, in this particular case, the sophist, Protagoras, not only argues successfully with Socrates, but Socrates at the end of the dialogue actually changes his mind. And he says, “Yeah, you’re right. I guess that’s correct. Virtue can be taught.” And how does Socrates arrive to that stunning conclusion? Because he’s convinced by a number of arguments that Protagoras puts forth, one of which is that virtue is a little bit like, let’s say, learning how to play an instrument, right? It’s the kind of thing that requires a little bit of theory. You want to… You wanna know a little bit about musical theory and musical notation if you want to be successful at playing an instrument, but mostly, it requires a lot of practice, and that practice is helped if you go and learn from somebody who’s already a good practitioner of it, right?

The early (pre-sectarian) Buddhists
They taught virtue in the same way, and I quote from Thanissaro Bhikkhu:

"If you don’t like the results of your actions, that’s perfectly fine. That’s a kind of discontent that the Buddha actually encouraged. But don’t stop there and give up. And don’t make the mistake of asking, “What’s wrong with me?” Instead, ask yourself, “Where am I acting in a way that’s not skillful? And how can I change that?” Those are the questions that can take you far."
~ Thanissaro Bhikkhu "Ask Yourself the Buddha's Question"

The art (skill) of seduction, conversation, etc.
So when people talk about "The Art of Living", "The Art of Love", the "Art of Seduction", the "Art of Conversation", etc. it comes from this classical view of art as craft, as a practical skill to exercise. The guys over at EducationalRenaissance combine the modern and ancient approaches to skill building, mentioning both "Talent is overrated" and Aristotle's techne (art) and phronesis.


Closing thoughts
I do, however, think that the imagination can be a help in developing skills. As seen in books like The Inner Game of Tennis, and "Golfing with Your Eyes Closed: Mastering Visualization Techniques for Exceptional Golf". For me, it's a question of both-and.

 

[Jan]

@Chase I agree with your point about intertwining beliefs and actions. And I also agree that the beliefs which you mentioned are good or even necessary to start your journey with seduction.

These are pretty basic level though.

What if we think about the beliefs on a spectrum, in the same way as think about other skills. Basic, intermediate, advanced level conversational skills.

Basic, intermediate, advanced level beliefs. I believe we can improve our beliefs in the same way as we can improve other skills.

What could be advanced level beliefs? Btw, these are my new set of beliefs. I believe all of them.

"I am a sexy man. 9s and 10s want me."
"I radiate sexual energy. 9s and 10s get more and more aroused every minute they spend near me."
"I'm consistent with my results. I go out and succeed very, very often."
"Women see me as a guy who they can be sexy and adventurous with. They get super interested and attracted because they believe that they finally make their sexual fantasies come true."
"I get social proof and pre-selection very fast. I enter a new venue, start an interaction with some people, then more people, then more. Every consecutive interaction is easier. Boom boom boom. And within 15-20 minutes I have a great social proof. Most of women start to notice. Plenty of women start approaching me."

Side story: I was in a club with a friend last Saturday and we approached two girls on the dance floor. The one I approached was the most attractive girl in the club for me. The approach went pretty well but not spectacular. She was kind of a light green in her IoI. Interested, happy to have me around but still a bit reserved. We danced a little bit, talked a little bit, but at some point I felt that the interaction is going a bit down hill so I told her that we (me with my friend) are gonna go for a smoke and find them later. She said: "Cool, come back later to us." Still smiling, still happy.

Why did I want to leave the interaction? Because I felt and I knew that if I continue I'm gonna fail. I was too much on an auto-pilot which I didn't like.

When I left I became more mindful about my thoughts and emotions and I realized that my vibe/perspective/emotional state has changed since I approached her. I realized that I was thinking and feeling DIFFERENT comparing to when I entered a club. And I talking to her in a way I wasn't very fond of. I caught myself doing this so I decided to consciously MODIFY my view of her and situation. And then return. To visualise this phenomenon, think this way. There are three areas of brain which can be active during seduction. Green, yellow and red area.

Green area is your best vibe area. You feel great, you say things which you wanted to say, her reactions are what you expected, she likes it. The results are there. This is area is all green as grass.

Then, there is another area which is substandard. It's kind of not bad, but not great neither. This area is all yellow. And then the last area of your brain is a chode plains, it's all red.

So here is the thing. When I approached this girl, which as I said to me, she was at least 9, I felt like I switched from green area to either the yellow or the red area. I tried to intervene in the process and consciously switch to the green area, but the problem was. The green area wasn't available for her. My internal belief was that I have to treat 9 and 10s different than I treat other chicks.

The point of this visualisation is this. Each of these different colorful areas of the brain are purely belief driven. There is also a meta program which is activating these areas. So for me, different areas are activated based on my rating of the girl. I remember thinking: "There are plenty of cute girls in this club, but only few really hot. If I fail with this one I won't have that many shots with the ones I really, really like." So I got defensive. I got into the wrong area of my brain, powered by wrong beliefs.

I think this aspect of the game is super important because I know that I have seductive skills. I have done it many, many times. From approach, through seduction, to bed. So I believe I have enough skills. Lookign backwards, I saw zero reason to believe that I needed different skills to pick up this particular girl. She was acting completely in line with how other chicks act towards me. The only problem was that I believed (at that time) that I have to do something different because she is a 9+.

 

[Chase]

@Chase I agree with your point about intertwining beliefs and actions. And I also agree that the beliefs which you mentioned are good or even necessary to start your journey with seduction.

These are pretty basic level though.

What if we think about the beliefs on a spectrum, in the same way as think about other skills. Basic, intermediate, advanced level conversational skills.

All right, well, my general position on belief is that you may need to work on beliefs to get yourself started, and you need to make sure the right beliefs are there to get yourself improving, but after that there's not a need to directly prioritize them TOO often. Otherwise you can spend months repeating mantras, affirmations, etc., and see only very marginal changes in your real results.

What examining beliefs is useful for in my opinion is identifying limiting beliefs you have that need fixing, so you can then tailor your action to fix those. An easy one is the levels of abundance:

1. "No girl is ever interested in me, or would ever be. I can never get girls."
2. "Girls are sometimes interested in me but wouldn't be if they knew the real me."
3. "Occasionally I can find a girl who is interested and will go out with me."
4. "I can sometimes get girls."
5. "I can consistently get girls, if not the girls I always want."
6. "I can often get girls I'm happy with. However it takes me a while to find girlfriend-caliber girls."
7. "I can consistently get the most awesome girls, including girls I want as girlfriends."
8. "I can basically have just about any woman I want, in whatever capacity I want, and keep her for as long as I want."

That's just a rough list, but you can look at that, pinpoint which one you are at, and make getting to the next level a priority. Then you take actions aimed at getting you there. What's it take to move to the next level of abundance? Your practice must aim to take you there.

What could be advanced level beliefs?

Depends how advanced you want to get.

How about "Give me six hours to approach in an area with enough women and I'll find a girl to take home and sleep with."

How about "The moment my cock goes in her she's mine and no force on Earth will stop her from becoming my girlfriend if I want her as that."

How about "If I bring two girls home and they're both in good spirits and not total prudes and escalate on both I stand a reasonable (if not absolute) chance for a threesome."

How about "I don't know how it happens but somehow my favorite types of girls are drawn to me like magnets and the moment we lock eyes they're mine if I want them. I'll shag them and I'll keep them with ease if I do anything other than 'not approach'."

So here is the thing. When I approached this girl, which as I said to me, she was at least 9, I felt like I switched from green area to either the yellow or the red area. I tried to intervene in the process and consciously switch to the green area, but the problem was. The green area wasn't available for her. My internal belief was that I have to treat 9 and 10s different than I treat other chicks.

The point of this visualisation is this. Each of these different colorful areas of the brain are purely belief driven. There is also a meta program which is activating these areas. So for me, different areas are activated based on my rating of the girl. I remember thinking: "There are plenty of cute girls in this club, but only few really hot. If I fail with this one I won't have that many shots with the ones I really, really like." So I got defensive. I got into the wrong area of my brain, powered by wrong beliefs.

I think this aspect of the game is super important because I know that I have seductive skills. I have done it many, many times. From approach, through seduction, to bed. So I believe I have enough skills. Lookign backwards, I saw zero reason to believe that I needed different skills to pick up this particular girl. She was acting completely in line with how other chicks act towards me. The only problem was that I believed (at that time) that I have to do something different because she is a 9+.

Right. That's a limiting belief you've identified in yourself.

Now you know what the belief is, so you need to take tailored action to eliminate it.

What action can you take to erase the belief of "I need different types of game to get 9s and 10s than I do to get 6s and 7s?"

One action is to totally throw out the rating system altogether and just go off of, "Whoa, that girl's hot" or "Okay, she's kinda cute" or "Meh, not feeling it":

Why to Throw Out the 1-to-10 Scale for Rating Women

Before stumbling into the world of pickup in late 2005, I'd never used the 1-to-10 scale. Maybe that's because I didn't really have friends; I wasn't comparing notes on girls. Or maybe it was because I wasn't trying to impress anyone by telling him I'd nailed a "total 10." But in pickup, it...

www.girlschase.com

That alone can get you to the point where after a while you turn around and say to yourself, "Holy heck, I just realized I've been shagging all these girls I would've called 'total 10s' in the past and totally psyched myself out about, except I just didn't call them 10s and just approached them as girls I wanted to shag instead!"

You can train yourself to look past makeup and clothes:

How to Tell a Girl Who's Beautiful from One Who's Made Up

Women use makeup, hair, dress, and behavior to make you think they’re prettier and more sexually receptive than they are. But you don’t need to be fooled. After I’d been meeting girls in bars and on the street for a few years, I decided to undertake a project. I wanted to become instant and good...

www.girlschase.com

Get in the habit of doing that and even really good-looking girls are all pretty human. Then it's basically just, "Hmm, really nice face! Oh look, her body's good too. Cool, I should definitely talk to her and see what she's about."

Other actions include pushing for more compliance with really hot girls earlier on and seeing if they'll comply. Some of them will, and then you'll realize that plenty of really hot girls are just as compliant or even more compliant than other girls who are not as hot.

Another is just pushing for faster escalations -- if you're afraid you're going to bail, rather than bail, escalate, and see what happens. It won't always work, but sometimes you will be surprised.

When I was a relative newbie I went to a nightclub and saw a really gorgeous girl looking over at me. I thought, "No way that girl is looking at me!" But as soon as I saw a chance, I approached. It went well. I thought, "No way this gorgeous girl can be that into me!" But I'd trained myself to move girls after a certain amount of time so I proposed a move and she agreed. A guy friend of hers jumped in to pull her away and left the club with her, but not before I grabbed her number. The next day I felt sure there was no way a girl that gorgeous would want anything with me, and I had bad luck texting girls from clubs, so I called her. She talked to me very happily for 30 minutes. Then I just kept taking actions with her, until I slept with her, then made her a girlfriend. Then I just kept doing that with other girls.

After a while you do not get that, "No way... THAT girl?!" feeling anymore. You become acclimated to beautiful girls responding well to you.

So, some of it is changing your perspective on things:

• Ditch the 1-to-10 rating system
• Train yourself to closely examine girls' faces and bodies, rather than just stand there in awe of their sparkling presentations

Others of it is taking action until you get enough positive feedback to adjust your beliefs:

• Go for more compliance, sooner
• Move faster with her & get her moving
• If you're not sure what to do, try escalating

Once your beliefs catch up you can then proceed smoother and choose correct actions rather than defaulting to "I don't know... uhhh, let's escalate!" But you need to stumble your way into enough positive feedback that your beliefs start to change and you can relax more in the presence of really beautiful women.

Chase

 

[Jan]

That's just a rough list, but you can look at that, pinpoint which one you are at, and make getting to the next level a priority. Then you take actions aimed at getting you there. What's it take to move to the next level of abundance? Your practice must aim to take you there.

Yeap, that's basically what I was thinking about.

So to sum up, I think I'm gonna go with this process:

1) Identify limiting beliefs which hold me in the current stage.
2) Create new beliefs which describe me as I'm in the next stage.

Do this for 30 days and review

3) Reread and visualise with emotional component the new beliefs daily.
4) Take action in line with the new beliefs.

In regards to the rating system, I'm just gonna assume that ALL women are attracted and aroused by me. So it's a just a matter of deciding if I want to shag this particular girl or not.