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Here's something I am JUST starting to wonder about.
I'm reading The Handbook of Relationship Initiation and in a chapter about friend formation. Much of it applies to initial courtships too. One big aspect is on reciprocated attraction. e.g.:
When I coached men in-field, I noticed the guys who got results right away were very responsive to women. A girl would be excited, and the guy would behave excited. She'd start sharing and he'd reciprocate. She'd show body language interest and he'd immediately respond to that with open body language of his own. But more typical students would just stand there and not reciprocate the interest women showed them, and after a few minutes the women would excuse themselves and walk away.
In fact, thinking back, I struggled to get results as a beginner for a while, and an important part of my path to better results could be framed as "learning a bunch of behaviors to better show and reciprocate interest." I had a lot of social anxiety and felt like showing too much interest was putting myself out there too much so was very hesitant to do that. I used to have lots of girls tell me I was "very hard to read." In addition... the big critique I got repeatedly once in acting class was that my expressions were too wooden (doubtless courtesy my years of trying to turn myself into an emotionless tough guy Terminator as a teen); it took something like 8 months before my acting coach didn't make that criticism anymore and found me expressive enough. I did progressively better with girls all throughout that expressiveness learning curve.
When I look at the autistic guys I have known who were running game, a lot of these guys learn to behave expressive in a more general way, where they are cheerful and enthusiastic, and they learn to engage in certain behaviors designed to show interest, but it still feels like something is off... thinking about "reciprocated interest", it seems like what is missing is that they show "general interest", but they aren't responding to signs of interest with interest of their own. e.g., they don't mirror body language, reflect back signs of growing interest, reduce their interest appropriately when the girl reduces displays of interest, etc.
A lot of what calibration is is calibrating the degree of interest you show in girls:
Anyway, I'm still unpacking this a bit... I might run a survey to a group of Americans about how comfortable they feel showing interest and how successful they rate themselves at dating.
My guess (hypothesis) here is that there is going to be a correlation between comfort expressing interest, skill reciprocating interest, and romantic aptitude.
My guess would be this applies equally to men and women. Compare a stripper & escort (very practiced at showing and reciprocating interest) to a virgin (shy and inexperienced at showing/reciprocating interest). The stripper & escort has a million thirsty male followers on Instagram/OnlyFans; the virgin doesn't command male attention like this, or anywhere close to it. Even if the virgin wanted a big Insta/OF, she would not be able to match the stripper/escort's numbers. She simply doesn't have the skill of showing, eliciting, and reciprocating interest.
If we look at much of the stuff beginner guys need to focus on doing in game:
In addition:
The things we do to show interest also elicit her level of interest. e.g., a girl who doesn't qualify herself to your screen is not as interested as a girl who does. A girl who tightens up when you touch her is not as interested as a girl who melts into your touch. Etc.
It seems like being able to read, elicit, reciprocate, and calibrate interest, not to mention pace her interest and lead her to a higher level of interest, could be considered a core aspect of proper courtship. People who struggle romantically are simply bad at these things: they miss signals, don't elicit them, don't reciprocate well or at all when they receive signals, fail to calibrate their level of interest to the other's, and don't know how to lead the other's interest to a higher place. People who excel romantically pick up on signals, elicit more signals, reciprocate signals automatically, calibrate their level of interest to the other's fluidly, and pace and lead those interest levels to higher levels expertly.
This seems like a really basic thing, but I think it could potentially be a very helpful thought for beginners: "I need to get better at recognizing and reciprocating interest in the opposite sex (or in people in general)." Obviously the same thing applies to making friends.
Actually I have noticed a lot of beginner guys on the Boards when you try to talk to them about what they are doing they just ignore your questions and zero in on one thing. The result is that you feel annoyed with the guy, like you and him are on totally different wavelengths, because he does not reciprocate the communication.
Like, here's an example thread. Guy lays out his problem. I make one statement ("1/1000 is a ridiculously low rate") and ask two questions ("Is this hypothetical or are you in-field?" & "What's the objective here?"). Guy responds by defending his earlier claim about "1/1000", ignores both my questions, then re-emphasizes his point.
Yes, I understood the point. You want an equation. I'm trying to figure out variables that impact that equation. But in this case the guy doesn't recognize that if he wants help from other people, he should be responsive to their queries and giving them the information they requested so they can give him the help he's asking for.
I'm not picking on this one guy; I see this behavior a lot in beginners who are also struggling. They ignore stuff, don't respond to stuff, get hung up on trying to make their point, like they are just trying to push anything else anyone says aside so they can insist upon this one key point, etc. It comes across like the guy is just treating other people like resource units, not listening to what they are saying, on some other wavelength, etc. So you can't build rapport, cannot connect, and lessens the desire to help. Again, not being responsive, not reciprocating in the conversation, etc.
So -- not sure if I am asking anything here (maybe: does this seem accurate? Have you noticed similar things?).
Bit of just a stream of thoughts as I am considering this whole responsiveness + reciprocation aspect of social interaction.
Chase
I'm reading The Handbook of Relationship Initiation and in a chapter about friend formation. Much of it applies to initial courtships too. One big aspect is on reciprocated attraction. e.g.:
- One person discloses, then the other person discloses.
- One person shows nonverbal interest, and the other shows nonverbal interest.
- One person compliments, then not long after the other person compliments.
When I coached men in-field, I noticed the guys who got results right away were very responsive to women. A girl would be excited, and the guy would behave excited. She'd start sharing and he'd reciprocate. She'd show body language interest and he'd immediately respond to that with open body language of his own. But more typical students would just stand there and not reciprocate the interest women showed them, and after a few minutes the women would excuse themselves and walk away.
In fact, thinking back, I struggled to get results as a beginner for a while, and an important part of my path to better results could be framed as "learning a bunch of behaviors to better show and reciprocate interest." I had a lot of social anxiety and felt like showing too much interest was putting myself out there too much so was very hesitant to do that. I used to have lots of girls tell me I was "very hard to read." In addition... the big critique I got repeatedly once in acting class was that my expressions were too wooden (doubtless courtesy my years of trying to turn myself into an emotionless tough guy Terminator as a teen); it took something like 8 months before my acting coach didn't make that criticism anymore and found me expressive enough. I did progressively better with girls all throughout that expressiveness learning curve.
When I look at the autistic guys I have known who were running game, a lot of these guys learn to behave expressive in a more general way, where they are cheerful and enthusiastic, and they learn to engage in certain behaviors designed to show interest, but it still feels like something is off... thinking about "reciprocated interest", it seems like what is missing is that they show "general interest", but they aren't responding to signs of interest with interest of their own. e.g., they don't mirror body language, reflect back signs of growing interest, reduce their interest appropriately when the girl reduces displays of interest, etc.
A lot of what calibration is is calibrating the degree of interest you show in girls:
- She shows more, you show more.
- She shows less, you show less.
Anyway, I'm still unpacking this a bit... I might run a survey to a group of Americans about how comfortable they feel showing interest and how successful they rate themselves at dating.
My guess (hypothesis) here is that there is going to be a correlation between comfort expressing interest, skill reciprocating interest, and romantic aptitude.
My guess would be this applies equally to men and women. Compare a stripper & escort (very practiced at showing and reciprocating interest) to a virgin (shy and inexperienced at showing/reciprocating interest). The stripper & escort has a million thirsty male followers on Instagram/OnlyFans; the virgin doesn't command male attention like this, or anywhere close to it. Even if the virgin wanted a big Insta/OF, she would not be able to match the stripper/escort's numbers. She simply doesn't have the skill of showing, eliciting, and reciprocating interest.
If we look at much of the stuff beginner guys need to focus on doing in game:
- Flirt: what you do when you are interested.
- Screen: what you do when you are interested.
- Qualify: communication that she has passed your screen and you are interested.
- Touch: what you do when you are interested.
- Mirror body language: what you do when you are interested.
- Build rapport: what you do when you are interested.
- Move & isolate her: what you do when you are interested.
- Reward her: what you do when you are interested.
In addition:
- Ping her before a proper open: elicit her level of interest so you can decide whether to engage.
- Compliance test: elicit her level of interest so you can reciprocate.
- Move her: get her to commit to the interaction and display a confirmed level of interest.
- Bounce her: get her to commit to the interaction and display a confirmed level of interest.
- Ask her out: get her to commit to a future interaction and display a confirmed level of interest.
The things we do to show interest also elicit her level of interest. e.g., a girl who doesn't qualify herself to your screen is not as interested as a girl who does. A girl who tightens up when you touch her is not as interested as a girl who melts into your touch. Etc.
It seems like being able to read, elicit, reciprocate, and calibrate interest, not to mention pace her interest and lead her to a higher level of interest, could be considered a core aspect of proper courtship. People who struggle romantically are simply bad at these things: they miss signals, don't elicit them, don't reciprocate well or at all when they receive signals, fail to calibrate their level of interest to the other's, and don't know how to lead the other's interest to a higher place. People who excel romantically pick up on signals, elicit more signals, reciprocate signals automatically, calibrate their level of interest to the other's fluidly, and pace and lead those interest levels to higher levels expertly.
This seems like a really basic thing, but I think it could potentially be a very helpful thought for beginners: "I need to get better at recognizing and reciprocating interest in the opposite sex (or in people in general)." Obviously the same thing applies to making friends.
Actually I have noticed a lot of beginner guys on the Boards when you try to talk to them about what they are doing they just ignore your questions and zero in on one thing. The result is that you feel annoyed with the guy, like you and him are on totally different wavelengths, because he does not reciprocate the communication.
Like, here's an example thread. Guy lays out his problem. I make one statement ("1/1000 is a ridiculously low rate") and ask two questions ("Is this hypothetical or are you in-field?" & "What's the objective here?"). Guy responds by defending his earlier claim about "1/1000", ignores both my questions, then re-emphasizes his point.
Yes, I understood the point. You want an equation. I'm trying to figure out variables that impact that equation. But in this case the guy doesn't recognize that if he wants help from other people, he should be responsive to their queries and giving them the information they requested so they can give him the help he's asking for.
I'm not picking on this one guy; I see this behavior a lot in beginners who are also struggling. They ignore stuff, don't respond to stuff, get hung up on trying to make their point, like they are just trying to push anything else anyone says aside so they can insist upon this one key point, etc. It comes across like the guy is just treating other people like resource units, not listening to what they are saying, on some other wavelength, etc. So you can't build rapport, cannot connect, and lessens the desire to help. Again, not being responsive, not reciprocating in the conversation, etc.
So -- not sure if I am asking anything here (maybe: does this seem accurate? Have you noticed similar things?).
Bit of just a stream of thoughts as I am considering this whole responsiveness + reciprocation aspect of social interaction.
Chase
