How much time do you spend making approaches?

[Arnav]

For those who practice day game, how much time do you typically spend making approaches?

I have seen some guys say 4hrs, is it possible to see noticeble improvements, putting 1hr a day?

 

[DarkKnight]

not about the hours you put in in my book, just start with 4 approaches a day to gain some momentum. you dont need to burn yourself out. especially at the start

 

[AspiringStoic]

It depends on where you start from. Your level of social anxiety, your experience with women, how good you want to get at this. Right from the earliest days seems like taking a lot of action and being infield was also emphasized.

If I remember correctly Mystery' s newbie guide is to go out 4 nights a week and do 12 sets each night. This adds up to 48 approaches a week. In terms of daygame I have seen recommendations of 30-50 approaches a week. I have been trying to work up to doing 30+ every week.

 

[Arnav]

It depends on where you start from. Your level of social anxiety, your experience with women, how good you want to get at this. Right from the earliest days seems like taking a lot of action and being infield was also emphasized.

If I remember correctly Mystery' s newbie guide is to go out 4 nights a week and do 12 sets each night. This adds up to 48 approaches a week. In terms of daygame I have seen recommendations of 30-50 approaches a week. I have been trying to work up to doing 30+ every week.

Okay, so it's the number of approaches eather than the time one has to focus on.

 

[TwoNameGame]

I have seen some guys say 4hrs, is it possible to see noticeble improvements, putting 1hr a day?

Count approaches, not hours.

I used to do 3 hours a day, 1-2 approaches and progress was slow (lost plent of pounds, though!). My progress exploded once I did 4.

 

[Arnav]

Count approaches, not hours.

I used to do 3 hours a day, 1-2 approaches and progress was slow (lost plent of pounds, though!). My progress exploded once I did 4.

When you say 4 approaches, are you counting the rejection as well. Or 4 extended interactions?

 

[TwoNameGame]

When you say 4 approaches, are you counting the rejection as well. Or 4 extended interactions?

I mean any conversation where I'm not instantly rejected. I do game on campus, so I sometimes have women isntantly tell me they have boyfriends or they enter a nearby classroom.

Generally, you want to practice everything from the opener to the number close/ instadate.

 

[Ratata]

I never approach.

Ahahah sorry for half-troll post, but... Honestly, I've arranged my life so that I don't have to approach in the traditional sense, i.e. in the sense that you muster courage, walk up to her and go "urm eeeeh ahem... are you eeeem single?" only to get slapped "IHABF creep!"

So, what do I mean by "I never approach"? Well, ofc I "approach" but not in the above way. Never. Ney. Instead I'm just social everywhere. Talk to everyone. This way, when I finally get to the hot girl, it'll just be another person I'm talking to in that moment. I'll just go "Oh hi how are you? How's your day going? K cool." And check things out casually. Then if I feel the attraction or tension, I'll take it further. If not, I'll just keep it casual and social. I might still close her, but strictly for something social with other people. THo if it's some attraction, that's when I'll try to get an insta date or a later date.

 

[AspiringStoic]

I never approach.

Ahahah sorry for half-troll post, but... Honestly, I've arranged my life so that I don't have to approach in the traditional sense, i.e. in the sense that you muster courage, walk up to her and go "urm eeeeh ahem... are you eeeem single?" only to get slapped "IHABF creep!"

So, what do I mean by "I never approach"? Well, ofc I "approach" but not in the above way. Never. Ney. Instead I'm just social everywhere. Talk to everyone. This way, when I finally get to the hot girl, it'll just be another person I'm talking to in that moment. I'll just go "Oh hi how are you? How's your day going? K cool." And check things out casually. Then if I feel the attraction or tension, I'll take it further. If not, I'll just keep it casual and social. I might still close her, but strictly for something social with other people. THo if it's some attraction, that's when I'll try to get an insta date or a later date.

Damn another one of these guys.

Dude its hard enough for the OP and everyone else trying to improve themselves with girls to take action. They don't need another guy on a forum dedicated to seduction to tell him I don't "approach". I am just so COOL and NATURAL not like you guys who are "creepy" because you "approach". Fuck that. The mainstream has enough of that conditioning in men already.

Either answer the damn question, or if you are using some other method that involves not setting aside time to this specifically just DON'T contribute on a thread that is not relevant to you. Don't come on here trying to shame guys who have the balls to take action.

 

[KJ Francis]

I never approach.

Ahahah sorry for half-troll post, but... Honestly, I've arranged my life so that I don't have to approach in the traditional sense, i.e. in the sense that you muster courage, walk up to her and go "urm eeeeh ahem... are you eeeem single?" only to get slapped "IHABF creep!"

So, what do I mean by "I never approach"? Well, ofc I "approach" but not in the above way. Never. Ney. Instead I'm just social everywhere. Talk to everyone. This way, when I finally get to the hot girl, it'll just be another person I'm talking to in that moment. I'll just go "Oh hi how are you? How's your day going? K cool." And check things out casually. Then if I feel the attraction or tension, I'll take it further. If not, I'll just keep it casual and social. I might still close her, but strictly for something social with other people. THo if it's some attraction, that's when I'll try to get an insta date or a later date.

Sounds like indirect. If you and a girl were walking towards each other on a sidewalk, how would you stop her?

On topic, do you go out specifically to meet girls in this way for a certain amount of time, or only integrate it when you are already out for a purpose like grocery shopping anyways?

Sounds like this:

How Naturals Meet Girls and Get Laid

One of the big mysteries for a lot of guys who are new to pickup is just how, exactly, men who are ‘naturals’ with women meet enough women to have the partner volume they do. If you’ve ever had a talented natural friend, you’ll notice it seems like he never does a cold approach, and spends most...

www.girlschase.com

 

[Ratata]

Man, AspiringStoic... You sound frustrated. I didn't mean to offend you, or what you do. If we're to discuss this further, however, you'll have to change your tone. For instance, how am I supposed to know in advance what you think the OP needs or not? What if what he needs is exactly my advice? You don't know that, and you don't know what I know or have experienced either. Which is a lot. If you don't like my advice, you're free to ignore it or give a good reason for why you think it's wrong. It's not, but I'm willing to hear your arguments - if delivered in a respectful and constructive tone. Can you do that for me?

You're right, though. I do have something against high street cold approaching. Because I've field tested it myself. A lot. Does it mean that cold approaching doesn't work? Of course not! But why make things harder for yourself when there are clearly easier and arguably better ways to do it, where you don' t have to set aside a special time of day to do either, and where you don't have to muster confidence, and where the likelihood of looking like a creep is about zero? Would you be interested in learning some techniques that could get you to that place? If yes, read on. If not, then, well, just continue doing what works for you.

How do I know? Because I've done high street cold approaching too, and seen for myself just how ineffective and time-consuming it is. Not least because, yes, most of the newbs and inexperienced PUAs do in fact end up looking like creeps when performing it. I'd show you a video of a particular such person who tried to cold approach in a small town, but honestly, I feel to bad about him to even wanna search up that video. Suffice to say, he did no service to the community by acting like that. Though deep down, all you can do is sympathise with him.

With that said, hell, I still do it from time to time for shits and giggles. It can be a lot of fun after all. But then the frame for doing it is completely different from most newbs, because the primary focus when I do it, is for my own entertainment.

Was I always so COOL and NATURAL? No, I started out naked and afraid just like you. Then I tried traditional high street cold approaching. But I started to ask myself, why confine yourself to such a niche thing? Women are everywhere, so why just do it on the high street? Isn't it better to do it in places where women already slow down, or are relaxed and more receptive to small-talk and suggestions? Such as book stores, grocery stores, cafés, malls, parks, the beach, etc...

Hi, Francis! "If you and a girl were walking towards each other on a sidewalk, how would you stop her?" Most likely I wouldn't. I'd do it if I walked past her and could walk a little in front of her, then flip my head and say hi to her over my shoulder. Then I could walk with her for a bit, and then perhaps stop her when she hooks. Way higher chance of success, and you don't become this "salesman" trying to shill something to her (easiest thing in the world to ignore no matter your sex). I don't like most of Mystery's theories, but his stuff on positioning is still GOLD. It just works.

So, my point is, get better at small talk in general, and talk to people everywhere. From this you become "the social guy." People perceive you as a nice gentleman everywhere, and moreover that super hot girl won't bat an eye at you also sending a comment or observation in her direction. My point is, don't confine yourself to the extremely socially awkward place that a busy high street is. Half the people there are on their way to somewhere else, and they don't have time for you. And even if you do get a number, it's got a higher chance of flaking than if you use some more time with her.

When you've mastered general socializing, you'll find that you don't have to confine your PU to a special time of day either. Because you're always on. You always speak to people. And you always make that hot girl smile. And when she does... "Hey, this is gonna sound strange, but... Would you like to meet me later?"

 

[AspiringStoic]

Man, AspiringStoic... You sound frustrated. I didn't mean to offend you, or what you do. If we're to discuss this further, however, you'll have to change your tone. For instance, how am I supposed to know in advance what you think the OP needs or not? What if what he needs is exactly my advice? You don't know that, and you don't know what I know or have experienced either. Which is a lot. If you don't like my advice, you're free to ignore it or give a good reason for why you think it's wrong. It's not, but I'm willing to hear your arguments - if delivered in a respectful and constructive tone. Can you do that for me?

You're right, though. I do have something against high street cold approaching. Because I've field tested it myself. A lot. Does it mean that cold approaching doesn't work? Of course not! But why make things harder for yourself when there are clearly easier and arguably better ways to do it, where you don' t have to set aside a special time of day to do either, and where you don't have to muster confidence, and where the likelihood of looking like a creep is about zero? Would you be interested in learning some techniques that could get you to that place? If yes, read on. If not, then, well, just continue doing what works for you.

How do I know? Because I've done high street cold approaching too, and seen for myself just how ineffective and time-consuming it is. Not least because, yes, most of the newbs and inexperienced PUAs do in fact end up looking like creeps when performing it. I'd show you a video of a particular such person who tried to cold approach in a small town, but honestly, I feel to bad about him to even wanna search up that video. Suffice to say, he did no service to the community by acting like that. Though deep down, all you can do is sympathise with him.

With that said, hell, I still do it from time to time for shits and giggles. It can be a lot of fun after all. But then the frame for doing it is completely different from most newbs, because the primary focus when I do it, is for my own entertainment.

Was I always so COOL and NATURAL? No, I started out naked and afraid just like you. Then I tried traditional high street cold approaching. But I started to ask myself, why confine yourself to such a niche thing? Women are everywhere, so why just do it on the high street? Isn't it better to do it in places where women already slow down, or are relaxed and more receptive to small-talk and suggestions? Such as book stores, grocery stores, cafés, malls, parks, the beach, etc...

Hi, Francis! "If you and a girl were walking towards each other on a sidewalk, how would you stop her?" Most likely I wouldn't. I'd do it if I walked past her and could walk a little in front of her, then flip my head and say hi to her over my shoulder. Then I could walk with her for a bit, and then perhaps stop her when she hooks. Way higher chance of success, and you don't become this "salesman" trying to shill something to her (easiest thing in the world to ignore no matter your sex). I don't like most of Mystery's theories, but his stuff on positioning is still GOLD. It just works.

So, my point is, get better at small talk in general, and talk to people everywhere. From this you become "the social guy." People perceive you as a nice gentleman everywhere, and moreover that super hot girl won't bat an eye at you also sending a comment or observation in her direction. My point is, don't confine yourself to the extremely socially awkward place that a busy high street is. Half the people there are on their way to somewhere else, and they don't have time for you. And even if you do get a number, it's got a higher chance of flaking than if you use some more time with her.

When you've mastered general socializing, you'll find that you don't have to confine your PU to a special time of day either. Because you're always on. You always speak to people. And you always make that hot girl smile. And when she does... "Hey, this is gonna sound strange, but... Would you like to meet me later?"

Please read the OP carefully. In fact let me re-post it here:

"For those who practice day game, how much time do you typically spend making approaches?

I have seen some guys say 4hrs, is it possible to see noticeble improvements, putting 1hr a day?"



Where does it refer exclusively to "high street" cold approaching? You are making a ton of assumptions that are not mentioned anywhere on this thread. Who said its a niche and that everyone is approaching only on the high street?

Where does it say time spent doing approaches means its only on the high street? Why do you presume that approaching at book stores, grocery stores, cafés, malls, parks, the beach, etc.. is not included? Is there anything here in this discussion to indicate that?

Because I've done high street cold approaching too, and seen for myself just how ineffective and time-consuming it is.

Ah I see. It did not work for you so therefore.... it is inefficient and not worth doing. So you not only make several assumptions about things that are not mentioned and then you give your very VALID reason.

I'd show you a video of a particular such person who tried to cold approach in a small town, but honestly, I feel to bad about him to even wanna search up that video. Suffice to say, he did no service to the community by acting like that. Though deep down, all you can do is sympathise with him.

Ahh so some guys get it wrong so it must not be done?

I saw guys being stupid and lifting too much and passing out while deadlifting. So therefore we must not deadlift, because some guys do it wrong? Makes total sense.

And I can show you tons of videos of guys doing it well. So what? Now that some guy was obtuse enough to get in trouble cold approaching in a small town, we have to tell everyone to stop approaching?

And now we have a new factor "small town". Is anyone here asking specifically about small towns? Where we saying go and talk to 20 girls in an hour in a small town?

You are making assumptions left, right and centre. And on top of that, you did not qualify your so called "advice". You just wrote a blanket post implying XYZ is stupid and my way is better.

You're right, though. I do have something against high street cold approaching.

And see who is the one has "something against" what the others are doing? I did not get on here trying to dismiss your method of going about doing things. You are the one doing that.

And I don't care much for posts like yours now because I have done enough "approaching" to know that it is the method that has worked best for me. Meaning taking time out to specifically go out and talk to x number of girls/day or week. But there was a time when posts like yours did discourage me and prevent me from going out and trying to approach.

I know that there are many people on this forum and people who read this thread, who are still contemplating this whole approaching thing. They hear enough of the approaching girls is creepy thing from the mainstream, that if they saw a post like that even on a seduction platform, that would be the last nail in the coffin and they would never go out to approach.

My reply was to prevent that from happening. I have seen many posts like these from several guys discouraging people from "approaching". The manosphere is filled with this kind of thing. And its always people like you who tried it and did not work for them so they come on to threads everywhere discouraging people from trying it.

The PUA community and knowledge base was not built by guys just going out chatting with people and being social in their day to day lives. It was built by guys who went out hardcore to "sarge" and try to specifically work on this skillset and improve it.

You can say what you want about what you think works best. But I am not the one knocking on your approach here. You are the one coming on to a thread of a guy asking a specific question and using it to say XYZ is "creepy" and potentially discouraging people from doing it.

 

[KJ Francis]

Man, AspiringStoic... You sound frustrated. I didn't mean to offend you, or what you do. If we're to discuss this further, however, you'll have to change your tone. For instance, how am I supposed to know in advance what you think the OP needs or not? What if what he needs is exactly my advice? You don't know that, and you don't know what I know or have experienced either. Which is a lot. If you don't like my advice, you're free to ignore it or give a good reason for why you think it's wrong. It's not, but I'm willing to hear your arguments - if delivered in a respectful and constructive tone. Can you do that for me?

You're right, though. I do have something against high street cold approaching. Because I've field tested it myself. A lot. Does it mean that cold approaching doesn't work? Of course not! But why make things harder for yourself when there are clearly easier and arguably better ways to do it, where you don' t have to set aside a special time of day to do either, and where you don't have to muster confidence, and where the likelihood of looking like a creep is about zero? Would you be interested in learning some techniques that could get you to that place? If yes, read on. If not, then, well, just continue doing what works for you.

How do I know? Because I've done high street cold approaching too, and seen for myself just how ineffective and time-consuming it is. Not least because, yes, most of the newbs and inexperienced PUAs do in fact end up looking like creeps when performing it. I'd show you a video of a particular such person who tried to cold approach in a small town, but honestly, I feel to bad about him to even wanna search up that video. Suffice to say, he did no service to the community by acting like that. Though deep down, all you can do is sympathise with him.

With that said, hell, I still do it from time to time for shits and giggles. It can be a lot of fun after all. But then the frame for doing it is completely different from most newbs, because the primary focus when I do it, is for my own entertainment.

Was I always so COOL and NATURAL? No, I started out naked and afraid just like you. Then I tried traditional high street cold approaching. But I started to ask myself, why confine yourself to such a niche thing? Women are everywhere, so why just do it on the high street? Isn't it better to do it in places where women already slow down, or are relaxed and more receptive to small-talk and suggestions? Such as book stores, grocery stores, cafés, malls, parks, the beach, etc...

Hi, Francis! "If you and a girl were walking towards each other on a sidewalk, how would you stop her?" Most likely I wouldn't. I'd do it if I walked past her and could walk a little in front of her, then flip my head and say hi to her over my shoulder. Then I could walk with her for a bit, and then perhaps stop her when she hooks. Way higher chance of success, and you don't become this "salesman" trying to shill something to her (easiest thing in the world to ignore no matter your sex). I don't like most of Mystery's theories, but his stuff on positioning is still GOLD. It just works.

So, my point is, get better at small talk in general, and talk to people everywhere. From this you become "the social guy." People perceive you as a nice gentleman everywhere, and moreover that super hot girl won't bat an eye at you also sending a comment or observation in her direction. My point is, don't confine yourself to the extremely socially awkward place that a busy high street is. Half the people there are on their way to somewhere else, and they don't have time for you. And even if you do get a number, it's got a higher chance of flaking than if you use some more time with her.

When you've mastered general socializing, you'll find that you don't have to confine your PU to a special time of day either. Because you're always on. You always speak to people. And you always make that hot girl smile. And when she does... "Hey, this is gonna sound strange, but... Would you like to meet me later?"

Yeah I feel you on this... I think it is kind of the goal in a way. Like for OP and myself, putting in the reps may be necessary to break the approach anxiety and really get used to the possibility of success, seeing different permutations of interactions, building instincts and skill, etc. Then with the comfort and skill built you can pull it out of your pocket any time without nervousness (not just opening, but being used to moving interactions forward).

I do think the natural social method is the most romantic movie-magic type... Basically situational opener like in an elevator or browsing shelves in a store.

But you do need a huge volume of approaches to get there right? So I do think putting in the reps is necessary and the high street stops are the situations with enough volume to get that level of exposure.

 

[AspiringStoic]

But you do need a huge volume of approaches to get there right? So I do think putting in the reps is necessary and the high street stops are the situations with enough volume to get that level of exposure.

Right there you nailed it. You can't go around practicising showing intent, sexualizing, flirting, teasing etc only with your University librarian, your cashier at the neighborhood store, your nearby mall store girls, your co-workers in the office building and so on.

First off its not enough volume and secondly when you are new, you are more likely to be uncalibrated and fuck something up. You don't want to do that with people who matter in your life and who you are going to run into again and again.

So anyonymous cold approaches regardless of whether they are done on a high street, a park, a mall, etc are where you get the practice in and where there are not many bad repercussions of having a conversation go awkward etc.

But regardless, if someone finds what works for them is something different, that is fine. Good for them.

You don't see the "approaching" guys going around shaming or making fun of people who say I just go about my day and talk to people.Its always the other way around.

Somehow those guys find it necessary to shame or denigrate the guys who decide I am going to focus on this and really go out for a period of time to just "approach"!

Just like you would go out "to run" or go to the gym just "to work out".

 

[Ratata]

Seeing as AspiringStoic neither seems curious about alternative methods, nor wants to discuss things in good faith, I see no point in continuing any further communication with him.

Like for OP and myself, putting in the reps may be necessary to break the approach anxiety and really get used to the possibility of success, seeing different permutations of interactions, building instincts and skill, etc.

If you're indeed getting success, then I'd say you're experiencing mastery, which is a key ingredient for gaining any skill. If that's the case, then I'd say that you're on the right track, so just continue what you're already doing.

If I were you, though, I'd still try to see what getting good at general socializing can do for you in terms of social momentum and likability, and how it can make you into a guy who's ready 24/7 instead of just a few hours a day. It isn't hard to do either. Just do some situational openers if luck hands it to you. And practise doing observations or mini cold-reads with anyone in your vicinity or with anyone who comes into your "bubble".

See, so this is why I say that I "don't approach". I mean, of course I still approach, but it's more subtle, because I never have to "man up and go over to her," as it were. I just chat to people who naturally come into my zone of socialization, so to speak. Moreover you don't need to allot a special time to do this, IMHO. You should do it every time you go out. Suddenly, you'll find yourself in situations where sexual tension is growing, and you realize that you're in full control of it, because all you did was to be social and have a good time.

Perhaps there is more to it. Perhaps I've learned to better see IOIs and to handle various protests, or mini-rejections, or scepticism from people. But generally, when I act like this, people are really forthcoming and happy about speaking to me. This makes it easier to get in a good mood, which makes it easer to flirt. So, it's a thing that gives you sort of self-driving social momentum. And since no interaction essentially matter in any meaningful way, since I'm not out to get anything in particular - I'm just testing the waters, and seeing where things could lead - then even if I don't get a date that day, I'm still happier for doing it. Which is attractive in its own right. Meaning that those times it works, it feels completely effortless. Yes, like a natural. But like I said earlier, I'm not a natural. I had to learn how to get here through exploring new ways of communication and approaching.

Then with the comfort and skill built you can pull it out of your pocket any time without nervousness (not just opening, but being used to moving interactions forward).

Nervousness builds when you need to achieve something. When you feel the need to perform. Being generally social takes the sting out of the need to perform, and skews it into being just curious, or just making a little flirtatious observation, and then having some fun that doesn't need to lead anywhere. But when you take on that frame, there's a much higher chance for sexual tension to develop since you're being naturally playful and happy, and hence it will also increase your closing rate regardless of how you made the initial approach.

When you do traditional approaching, the first step is noticing the girl, then the next thing is coming up with something to say, unless you use - say - the three second rule, and try to come up with something as you go over there. If you've got a routine, then it may or may not be easier, unless you're still thinking about how you should deliver that routine, or worst of all, you're struggling to even remember the words, because her beauty blinded you or something. None of that matters during general socialization, because you're just having fun and experimenting a bit.

You can look upon the need to perform as a begging frame, meanwhile the frame you want to be in, is the giving frame, or in the least the curious and qualifying frame. These are just concepts to describe your mental state. IMHO it's easier to get into those frames or states if you already are having fun, and you are - to put it in RSD terms - self amused.

I do think the natural social method is the most romantic movie-magic type... Basically situational opener like in an elevator or browsing shelves in a store.

Absolutely. That's where they work best. And due to this effect, women recognize it as such, and then it even helps you along. She recognized that moment from that romantic comedy, and can go "Oh shit, I'm now the protagonist in this beautiful romance!" Meanwhile you can act the hero. IMHO it's quite beautiful! And you can do this! In fact, a good starting movie to see is Don Juan de Marco. Copy everything Johnny Depp does in that movie lol! For funzies of course. For a laugh. But try it anyway, to see how the girls react when you use stuff from that movie. He's being a total romantic fool, but - having tried this myself, and mind you I look nothing like Depp - it actually works. (I took a deep dive into this movie after I saw Zan Perrion recommend it back on MASF, back in the day. What a legend!)

But you do need a huge volume of approaches to get there right? So I do think putting in the reps is necessary and the high street stops are the situations with enough volume to get that level of exposure.

Being nice and social to more people does not require much skill IMHO. So, I would say, no, you don't need to put in a lot of work, actually. Unless you have social anxiety in general. But then you really need a therapist too.

What you need to learn to recognize is the opportunities it creates, and how to capitalize on it, and that's inner game work mostly. "Ah, this girl stayed and talked longer hmm... What would happen if I took her hand, or asked her on an insta date instead of chickening out?" That sorta thing. "Next time I'll try to capitalize on it!" So, as you can see, this is not so far off from regular daygame either. But hopefully you're managing to shift the angle of it a bit, or see it in a different light, where it's part of your entire life and not something you must assign a special time of day.

So, final words, of course continue learning traditional cold approaching and daygame. It's a good skill to have. I never claimed otherwise. But I would also challenge myself to try out these new ideas as well, to see where it leads, and if it feels good for you. If it seems horribly awkward and weird, then, fine, go back to traditional daygame. But if not, I simply wish you a happy life - full of romantic adventures that end in hot, steaming sex with super-hot girls due to ST overload.

 

[TwoNameGame]

Being nice and social to more people does not require much skill IMHO.

Seeing as you came in a bit insensitive towards the rookie, then started acting hostile towards an experienced seducer, and still haven't seen to gotten the point anyone made...

I'd have to disagree.

Yes, indirect game and always being on are good methods. I myself made friends via social momentum and agree that it makes you seem less intimidating on campus. But trust me that calibration is indeed a skill that some need to develop.

 

[Ratata]

Seeing as you came in a bit insensitive towards the rookie, then started acting hostile towards an experienced seducer, and still haven't seen to gotten the point anyone made...

All I wanted was for this one guy to discuss in good faith. Why should I entertain a person who obviously don't have my best interest in mind? And what point did anyone make? Sorry, he just doesn't seem very experienced to me. Or did he come directly off a boot with Krauser or something? If you're to judge by his friend Tom Torero (RIP), then trad daygame isn't all that...

Yes, indirect game and always being on are good methods. I myself made friends via social momentum and agree that it makes you seem less intimidating on campus. But trust me that calibration is indeed a skill that some need to develop.

Not at all! You don't have to be indirect for this to work. You can make use of the social momentum it gives you, and be quite up front and direct In fact, I'm willing to wager that it makes it easier, because creating social momentum off small-talk and general socialization makes you more uninhibited and in the moment. IMHO being uninhibited and in the moment beats having to calibrate. But ofc you need to know when to cull your enthusiasm.

 

[TwoNameGame]

because creating social momentum off small-talk and general socialization makes you more uninhibited and in the moment. IMHO being uninhibited and in the moment beats having to calibrate.

I agree with that first part. Being uninhibited and having prosocial energy is tremendously helpful.

I once accidentally got an instadate with this one chick when I saw her carrying things to a festival. I offered help, but she was fine. I made a brief quip before turning around to leave, but she kept talking to me. Somehow, we spent the rest of the time exploring booths. In another case, I stared at a guy who was eating what I assumed was Popeye's (I craved Popeye's). He caught me, I explained the misunderstanding, and we became good friends by accident. Being uninhibited and having the right energy.

I just disagree that it trumps calibration. Moving too fast in terms of kino killed a good interaction once, and moving too slow with escalation landed me in an awkward relationship progression despite us having a great time and connection.

 

[James D]

Think in numbers, not time.

Your anxiety level will fluctuate, especially in the beginning.

If you do 4 a day, some days you might be done in an hour, other days you might procrastinate until almost midnight because of anxiety.

That's why the number of approaches is the only reliable measurable outcome, not the time put in.

 

[Will_V]

Seeing as AspiringStoic neither seems curious about alternative methods, nor wants to discuss things in good faith, I see no point in continuing any further communication with him.



If you're indeed getting success, then I'd say you're experiencing mastery, which is a key ingredient for gaining any skill. If that's the case, then I'd say that you're on the right track, so just continue what you're already doing.

If I were you, though, I'd still try to see what getting good at general socializing can do for you in terms of social momentum and likability, and how it can make you into a guy who's ready 24/7 instead of just a few hours a day. It isn't hard to do either. Just do some situational openers if luck hands it to you. And practise doing observations or mini cold-reads with anyone in your vicinity or with anyone who comes into your "bubble".

See, so this is why I say that I "don't approach". I mean, of course I still approach, but it's more subtle, because I never have to "man up and go over to her," as it were. I just chat to people who naturally come into my zone of socialization, so to speak. Moreover you don't need to allot a special time to do this, IMHO. You should do it every time you go out. Suddenly, you'll find yourself in situations where sexual tension is growing, and you realize that you're in full control of it, because all you did was to be social and have a good time.

Perhaps there is more to it. Perhaps I've learned to better see IOIs and to handle various protests, or mini-rejections, or scepticism from people. But generally, when I act like this, people are really forthcoming and happy about speaking to me. This makes it easier to get in a good mood, which makes it easer to flirt. So, it's a thing that gives you sort of self-driving social momentum. And since no interaction essentially matter in any meaningful way, since I'm not out to get anything in particular - I'm just testing the waters, and seeing where things could lead - then even if I don't get a date that day, I'm still happier for doing it. Which is attractive in its own right. Meaning that those times it works, it feels completely effortless. Yes, like a natural. But like I said earlier, I'm not a natural. I had to learn how to get here through exploring new ways of communication and approaching.



Nervousness builds when you need to achieve something. When you feel the need to perform. Being generally social takes the sting out of the need to perform, and skews it into being just curious, or just making a little flirtatious observation, and then having some fun that doesn't need to lead anywhere. But when you take on that frame, there's a much higher chance for sexual tension to develop since you're being naturally playful and happy, and hence it will also increase your closing rate regardless of how you made the initial approach.

When you do traditional approaching, the first step is noticing the girl, then the next thing is coming up with something to say, unless you use - say - the three second rule, and try to come up with something as you go over there. If you've got a routine, then it may or may not be easier, unless you're still thinking about how you should deliver that routine, or worst of all, you're struggling to even remember the words, because her beauty blinded you or something. None of that matters during general socialization, because you're just having fun and experimenting a bit.

You can look upon the need to perform as a begging frame, meanwhile the frame you want to be in, is the giving frame, or in the least the curious and qualifying frame. These are just concepts to describe your mental state. IMHO it's easier to get into those frames or states if you already are having fun, and you are - to put it in RSD terms - self amused.



Absolutely. That's where they work best. And due to this effect, women recognize it as such, and then it even helps you along. She recognized that moment from that romantic comedy, and can go "Oh shit, I'm now the protagonist in this beautiful romance!" Meanwhile you can act the hero. IMHO it's quite beautiful! And you can do this! In fact, a good starting movie to see is Don Juan de Marco. Copy everything Johnny Depp does in that movie lol! For funzies of course. For a laugh. But try it anyway, to see how the girls react when you use stuff from that movie. He's being a total romantic fool, but - having tried this myself, and mind you I look nothing like Depp - it actually works. (I took a deep dive into this movie after I saw Zan Perrion recommend it back on MASF, back in the day. What a legend!)



Being nice and social to more people does not require much skill IMHO. So, I would say, no, you don't need to put in a lot of work, actually. Unless you have social anxiety in general. But then you really need a therapist too.

What you need to learn to recognize is the opportunities it creates, and how to capitalize on it, and that's inner game work mostly. "Ah, this girl stayed and talked longer hmm... What would happen if I took her hand, or asked her on an insta date instead of chickening out?" That sorta thing. "Next time I'll try to capitalize on it!" So, as you can see, this is not so far off from regular daygame either. But hopefully you're managing to shift the angle of it a bit, or see it in a different light, where it's part of your entire life and not something you must assign a special time of day.

So, final words, of course continue learning traditional cold approaching and daygame. It's a good skill to have. I never claimed otherwise. But I would also challenge myself to try out these new ideas as well, to see where it leads, and if it feels good for you. If it seems horribly awkward and weird, then, fine, go back to traditional daygame. But if not, I simply wish you a happy life - full of romantic adventures that end in hot, steaming sex with super-hot girls due to ST overload.

Sounds like you have your own way of thinking about your approaches, but they're still approaches. If you are seeing a girl you want and going up and talking to her (rather than waiting around for a social opportunity to be served up), it's still an approach.

I agree with the idea that developing great social skills is absolutely essential, and that you want to develop a way of expressing yourself that's a 24/7 part of your personality, so you don't have to try and switch it on. As I've mentioned a lot of times around here (and I'm not the only one) seduction is mostly social skills.

But there's a point where romance meets reality, where you have to go out with a goal and a strategy of how to achieve it, and spend some time fumbling and failing and evaluating and working at it and not being able to do exactly what you wanted to, and no amount of mindset management is going to help you avoid it.

If you want to make substantial improvements at anything, at some point you have to accept that.