How powerful is Deep Dive?

[Zurb]

Hey,

I saw that technique mentioned a couple times on GC but barely seen people talk about it on the forum here, or even less in the PUA community.

People always recommend for beginners to learn fundamentals, push/pull, compliance, kino, etc... but deep diving is never mentioned.
Same case for experienced seducers except a couple time.

I tried many time to use deep dive technique and see by myself how strong it is, but i always forgot to use that technique when i'm in the moment. I don't know if it's something that it's worth to learn and train.

So, i'm wondering how strong is deep dive technique ?

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@Zurb dude! The deep dive is very powerful and a great tool to have. In my opinion it's worth learning and training.

The deep dive builds a connection, it builds rapport, it allows you to be in a power position leading the conversation as if you have the power to judge her answers so she tries to impress you rather than like most dudes she's met that try to impress her. It's a pattern interrupt and you let her talk. The girl feels more connected to you the more you know about her, not the more she knows about you. If she knows about you it kills the mystery.

The deep dive doesn't have to be used in isolation, you can do kino while doing it which super charges it if done right. You can tease her for an answer, use push pull and you're creating compliance by asking questions and getting answers, you're asking her to invest in the interaction, if she's investing she's complying. You can ask her to move, either closer to you, to another venue, to show you her jewellery or tattoo. All these are tools to be used.

A deep dive will give you so much information to work with, but there's a time and place. If you're in the wrong venue or with the wrong girl it'll feel like an interview, the aim is to merge it in conversation. If done properly she won't feel like you've played 20 questions with her.

Like all tools and techniques, you've got an end goal in mind, you're not asking questions to ask these questions but to lead the conversation where you want it, build a connection and give you information to use.

 

[Will_V]

I pretty much only do street cold approach and deep diving is the cornerstone of my game. There's no better way to build a sense of comfort and familiarity with a girl that smooths over the awkwardness of meeting a random stranger than quickly finding commonalities in the things that mean a lot to you both.

My fastest pull (which took maybe two hours from meeting her on the street to a bar and then to my bedroom) was one long deep dive. There wasn't a whole lot of sexual stuff either, mainly just fantastic conversation about travel, life, relationships etc - with her doing most of the talking. Came straight home after a drink, no LMR, absolutely soaked my sheets. And this was no rando, Italian with long hair and a very beautiful face, and studying to be a lawyer. I was pretty much broke too, though I did present myself well.

The way I see it, people are always surrounded by other people whose judgement has to be carefully managed and comes with all sorts of unpleasant pressure. This is especially so for women. But when she meets someone who isn't part of her circle in any way, who not only wants to know but knows how to tease out who she really is, thinks, and wants to be, it is incredibly freeing and arousing for her.

To be good at deep diving you have to be a good conversationalist, but what is at least as important as what you say is what you are doing when you are listening. Being able to be relaxed and still and maintain open body language, guiding her with the emotions you express on your face, managing eye contact to add and release pressure (because a little bit of good pressure adds a lot of grease to the interaction), using a good amount of spontaneous touch, all this is very important for having her experience the right emotions as she opens up to you.

 

[James D]

Hey,

I saw that technique mentioned a couple times on GC but barely seen people talk about it on the forum here, or even less in the PUA community.

People always recommend for beginners to learn fundamentals, push/pull, compliance, kino, etc... but deep diving is never mentioned.
Same case for experienced seducers except a couple time.

I tried many time to use deep dive technique and see by myself how strong it is, but i always forgot to use that technique when i'm in the moment. I don't know if it's something that it's worth to learn and train.

So, i'm wondering how strong is deep dive technique ?

Hey mate,

If you forget to use it in the moment, it doesn't mean that the technique is wrong. It means you should find ways to implement what you learn.

Deep diving is super powerful. Definitely worth practicing.

 

[ulrich]

Deep diving is the essential intermediate technique.
Anything good starts with deep diving.

I guess the reason why it is not mentioned that often is because everyone agrees it is important and necessary unlike fundamentals that are even more important yet a lot of guys want to avoid working on them.

The same reason you don’t see a lot of people suggesting you to drink some water to be healthy… everyone just agrees on it.

 

[Zurb]

Allright you guys conviced me, i'll work on it!

To be good at deep diving you have to be a good conversationalist

Is being good at deep diving make you a good conversationalist tho?
Im a terrible conversationalist

Hey mate,

If you forget to use it in the moment, it doesn't mean that the technique is wrong. It means you should find ways to implement what you learn.

Well, you're right but never seein it mentioned it i automatically thought that it's a skill that doesn't matter that much, hence why i keep forgeting about you know, like peacoking it's good but if you don't do it it's ok

I'll work on it now tho

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

People always recommend for beginners to learn fundamentals, push/pull, compliance, kino, etc... but deep diving is never mentioned.
Same case for experienced seducers except a couple time.

It's not a beginner technique.
It leads to bad habits.
It repeats bad AFC habits. (Friendzone!)
It can lead to bad outcomes (dependence/over-attachment) if a guys use it pre-bang or post 1st bang.

Trained therapists deep dive as their jobs, and sometimes their patients form unhealthy attachments.

So it's not a good ideas for rookies bumping into randoms (God Forbid they use this on social circle chicks)

Low key, guys that get into this don't realize they need to break a few hearts to make good omelets.

WIA

 

[Will_V]

Im a terrible conversationalist

Why? You can't really be good at deep diving without being good at at least some parts of conversation.

There are two parts to good conversation, what you say when you speak and what you do when you aren't.

This is one of the most spectacular stories on what you can get away with by being very good at non verbals. If she's less of a talker you will probably have to do more to keep the conversation flowing though.

Conversation is a skill, it can be learned. As you get better at both verbals and nonverbals and maintaining the flow of things, you will get better at deep diving.

 

[Zurb]

It's not a beginner technique.
It leads to bad habits.
It repeats bad AFC habits. (Friendzone!)
It can lead to bad outcomes (dependence/over-attachment) if a guys use it pre-bang or post 1st bang.

Basically to avoid the friendzone you just have to escalate right?
You mean women can get depend/over-attached to you if you use deep dive? Holy shit i didn't expect that deep diving could be THAT powerful

Why? You can't really be good at deep diving without being good at at least some parts of conversation.

I'm terrible at talking, i can't entertain and make people laugh for shit or talk for hour, that's what i mean by me being bad at conversation

On the other hand i'm good at listening and i genuinely enjoy listening people, i ask open ended question, etc... and i'm honestly interested on people life
I feel like deep diving is more suited to my personality even tho i'm a terrible conversationalist

Thanks for the links, i'll check this out

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

Basically to avoid the friendzone you just have to escalate right?

To answer your question, Escalation without laying foundation usually forces the girl to make a decision. She can decide to make it romantic, or not. BUT, the key with escalation - is that it is an escape for the guy. He's leaving the chick if she does not want to get down like that, and not torturing himself. So much of the game is having goals, having boundaries, asserting boundaries, and not being bound by others.

And I personally feel that not only can you not be her friend, you can't be open to her coming back around at all. She's dead to you. Some of the better players on here would keep the door open, I just don't have that level of maturity to deal with that much ambiguity.

That said, most guys get into F-Zone because they are good listeners and they enjoy listening to people, and know how to ask good questions. That puts you in the friend zone, because guys she just wants to bang - DO NOT CARE about her inner workings. Oftentimes getting banged by a horrible guy is better than dealing with someone that she thinks she can be serious with.

Basically, it's easier to bang a chick than to start with the intention of becoming her serious boyfriend. These days all the newbs are "playa 4 life" though, so it's not really a big topic anymore.

WIA

 

[Zurb]

That said, most guys get into F-Zone because they are good listeners and they enjoy listening to people, and know how to ask good questions. That puts you in the friend zone, because guys she just wants to bang - DO NOT CARE about her inner workings. Oftentimes getting banged by a horrible guy is better than dealing with someone that she thinks she can be serious with.

Basically, it's easier to bang a chick than to start with the intention of becoming her serious boyfriend. These days all the newbs are "playa 4 life" though, so it's not really a big topic anymore.

WIA

So how you'd play it out then as being an introvert who enjoy listening? Make her talk, deep dive, flirt and then kino/escalate?
That's how i do most of the time, minus deep dive.

 

[Will_V]

So how you'd play it out then as being an introvert who enjoy listening? Make her talk, deep dive, flirt and then kino/escalate?
That's how i do most of the time, minus deep dive.

Don't complicate things, it's very simple.

I just went for a walk and ended up with 3 numbers from 4 street approaches.

My method is simple:

1. Open her (I usually go for the 'stylish' opener these days) introduce myself, get her name.
2. Ask her if she's on her way home, going out, whatever looks like it is. Bit of chit chat.
3. Now I start to try to get to know her. Ask if she's a student, working, whatever.
4. When she says what it is I usually say "Do you enjoy that/Is that fun?"
5. Now she starts to tell me about why she does whatever she does. I use that to tell her something about her impression on me, basically a cold/warm read.
6. Now we're talking about her, not her job. I use that to ask her what kind of person she is, what she likes to do for fun/to express herself/ for adventure etc.
7. She starts telling me all the stuff that makes her tingle. I usually use strong eye contact, glance at her lips, move a little closer, interrupt her with an arm touch, try to make things a little sexual as she tells me what she enjoys doing.
8. Goes on for a while. When there's a lull or a wrap I pretend I realize I have to go somewhere but we should grab a coffee sometime lah-dih-dah.

So that's an approach. On a date or in a bar you'd stretch it out longer, escalate touch more and more, and eventually pull her home, but the principle is the same. Get her talking about what makes her FEEL good, and treat her as if all her expressiveness and bubbliness is turning you on a little bit. As if she's singing some music and it makes you want to dance. Subtle of course!

That's the way nonverbals works. Let her contagious emotions spur on your escalation of eye contact and touch, which in turn makes her more excited, and things spiral toward the bedroom.

The main thing to do is not to treat it as some weird task or work where you have to think about what to do or say. She's a pretty girl, pretty girls chirping and looking happy is a turn on, just keep the conversation flowing with some comments here and there and slowly escalate.

PS one woman today had been telling me about herself for 5 minutes with very little coming from my side and eventually I asked her with a smile "So what do you want to know about me?" and she says "Oh! I feel like I know a lot about you already! Um ..."

That's why deep diving works.

 

[Rakehell]

Deep diving is also powerful, because in a sense it make’s women feel more powerful. If you take a girl who views you highly, and you deep dive her (which is essentially screening her, qualifying her, building rapport, and building an emotional connection all rolled up into one), you appeal to the narcissist in her. She starts to feel as if she has more of a shot with you, when that happens she’ll be out of her head, allowing you to lead her emotionally, because now you two relate.

It makes the escalation process smoother.

 

[Searcher]

Deep diving is also powerful, because in a sense it make’s women feel more powerful. If you take a girl who views you highly, and you deep dive her (which is essentially screening her, qualifying her, building rapport, and building an emotional connection all rolled up into one), you appeal to the narcissist in her. She starts to feel as if she has more of a shot with you, when that happens she’ll be out of her head, allowing you to lead her emotionally, because now you two relate.

It makes the escalation process smoother.

In other words can you say deep diving increases attainability and doing it too much might make the girl think you aren't much of a challenge without teasing, chase framing, etc.

 

[TomInHo]

In other words can you say deep diving increases attainability and doing it too much might make the girl think you aren't much of a challenge without teasing, chase framing, etc.

Actually deep diving can make you seem like more of a challenge especially when combined with proper non-verbals. Because if you're deep diving while maintaining a laidback and almost bored expression, it makes her feel like she is in the hot seat.

Then when she tells you something fascinating and you reward her with opening yourself up, touching and qualifying her, she will FEEL like she is winning you over.

Hence reinforcing the frame that you are the selector not her

 

[Alpha13SC]

Actually deep diving can make you seem like more of a challenge especially when combined with proper non-verbals. Because if you're deep diving while maintaining a laidback and almost bored expression, it makes her feel like she is in the hot seat.

Then when she tells you something fascinating and you reward her with opening yourself up, touching and qualifying her, she will FEEL like she is winning you over.

Hence reinforcing the frame that you are the selector not her

I do something similar. I m asking questions, basically deep diving her, finding out more about her, and sometimes, at different times I m like "hmm, yeah, acceptable/it could be better" more like a tease followed by "just kidding" and a light touch, and other times, after it followed by again "kidding again, that is one of the most weird things I ve ever heard" teasing again. But this is calibrated.

Other times, when she drops a bomb, I m like " that's it, I m leaving. hope you have money for the metro".

 

[TomInHo]

I do something similar. I m asking questions, basically deep diving her, finding out more about her, and sometimes, at different times I m like "hmm, yeah, acceptable/it could be better" more like a tease followed by "just kidding" and a light touch, and other times, after it followed by again "kidding again, that is one of the most weird things I ve ever heard" teasing again. But this is calibrated.

Other times, when she drops a bomb, I m like " that's it, I m leaving. hope you have money for the metro".

Yup! Just like that. Makes the interaction more genuine rather than a bland interview. Because you're neither agreeing with every thing she is saying or acting like a total a-hole that doesn't care about who she really is beyond her pussy

 

[Rakehell]

In other words can you say deep diving increases attainability and doing it too much might make the girl think you aren't much of a challenge without teasing, chase framing, etc.

Sure it can increase attainability. Deep diving is so versatile that you can pretty much use it to add girth to any topic, or subtopic. Deep diving properly i.e by making sure you’re relating back to her during conversation, in a sense makes you more attainable.

The real strength of deep diving , is that it makes her feel like you know the real her. Since she’s indulging you with all of her inner thoughts and feelings. Thus when you start leading her emotionally: by making cold reads, using push pull techniques, etc etc. It’ll actually start to biologically process with her.

Think of a guy you just met telling you you’re a piece of shit versus someone you feel like you’ve known your whole life.

Edit: There’s actually an article on girls chase written just about this Emotional Contagion

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

So how you'd play it out then as being an introvert who enjoy listening? Make her talk, deep dive, flirt and then kino/escalate?
That's how i do most of the time, minus deep dive.

If this works for you, then don't change anything.

Controversial statement here - but a lot of PUA is teaching introverts/shy guys/awkward guys to become ENERGIZED when talking to people instead of drained - i.e. PUA teaches guys to become extroverted. Going out and talking to people should give guys a charge, an adrenaline rush, it is to become addictive.

That said, the pick up timeline is

1. Open with value/attraction/interest
2. Mid with logistics and trust
3. Close with passion.

For introverts that want to incorporate deep dives - this is how I do it.

Open with chick crack - so she does most of the talking. Any 3rd party topic that's not about the girl, but would probably start an emotional conversation. Ex - In April 2022, last week at the Oscars, Will Smith protected his woman. She's bound to have a strong opinion.

With the chick crack going - Run your other gambits - logistics check, qualification, red flag/green flag check, compliance/cooperation loop.

She should have bought in, in terms of the interaction, not necessarily you. In my mind, your mostly providing something that is novel, that is psychologically interesting. Like a human Wordle or Sudoku. Something that makes them want to figure it out. To me, curiosity and genuine interest, or her being stimulated this way is basically the seed of attraction.

Rather than just being a pretty face, tall, or have a good body - something a chick can explain to herself internally - I'm trying to give that "There's something different about you" vibe.

• The "I'm trying now to figure you out" vibe.
• "I can't put my finger on it" vibe.
• "I don't know what it is about you".

Because people like to categorize, women are people, and women especially like to box men in various groups. Some groupings are very polarizing, and can polarize good or bad. But not being able to do it, or having to rethink it, is useful. When a girl is not sure about where you are in the pecking order, or whether you are as confident/dominant as you claim to be...that can work to your advantage.

I digress.

Verbally, there are a lot of ways to do this.

Nonverbally, when you dance with a girl and switch from regular time to half time, still keeping the rhythm, but purposefully slowing things down - that's always psychologically interesting. What is this guy going to do next?

To initiate the deep dive, notice that she had some type of emotional reaction to 3rd party topic, and turn that from a 3rd party topic to a 1st person plural topic and finally a 1st person singular topic.

From this thing that happened to other people, to a me and her, and then to just her and her emotions.

How you play that, is up to you.

Verbally

1. Me and Her - "You would say that" or "That's why me and you would never work out. Playful romantic banter i.e flirting.
2. Just Her - "Not trying to get in your business, but I noticed a shift when you said...."

Nonverbally - which is what I tend to do

As she says whatever, slow down my body, make eye contact, make a facial expression.

That usually triggers a chick to second guess herself or ask me "What"

Then give your insight/cold read and start the deep dive.

In my experience, the more she's invested into who you are and what you think about HER, the more powerful the deep dive is.

For the introvert, his best deep dive tools are good topics, good listening skills, and good follow up questions, and letting her talk - giving the proper nonverbal cues to encourage her.

The extrovert, if he were going to do this, might lead with his own example, get really into his own feelings, and sort of expect the chick to vibe/mirror him. He might do more of the talking than the introvert, and it might be more about him than her. But that's what extroverts tend to do, that's why they're the "life" of the party - people LIVE through him.

Ex - Life story about him, and then follows with "I see SOME of that in you"

The upside with deep dives is that guys tend to get that "soulmate" impulse.
The downside is guys tend to get that "soulmate" impulse.

Take all of this advice with heavy skepticism and disbelief.

But do try it out. This is what has worked/blew up in my face for years.

WIA

 

[Will_V]

Controversial statement here - but a lot of PUA is teaching introverts/shy guys/awkward guys to become ENERGIZED when talking to people instead of drained - i.e. PUA teaches guys to become extroverted. Going out and talking to people should give guys a charge, an adrenaline rush, it is to become addictive.

100%. Approaching a woman without being excited is like taking her to bed without being horny. Everything just feels weird and instincts vanish.

I have never done well at daygame without feeling trepidation beforehand. It's just raw fuel splashing around ready to be sent somewhere it can be used to energize something.