Socializing How to avoid the pitfalls of the old "I need money" conundrum

[POB]

Whats up gents?
This will be a long one, so buckle up.
Promise I'll try to keep it as short and practical as I can.

• She asks for money...now what?

Let's say you've met this cool chick.
Doesn't matter where, but you guys been going back and forth, the vibe is good, everything is nice.

Then out of the blue she asks for money.
What do you do?

1) Context
- Is she hot? Like really hot, just 100% your type?
- Do you know her? Have you had sex with her? Or is she just a lead?
- If sex already happened, are you guys dating for real, or is she just an FB?
- Did she ask for anyting in the past, like small gifts or food? Or is it the first time?
- Did she frame it like an emergency? Is there proof of it?
- Is she an actual or ex sex worker?

All those questions should be asked in your head the moment she comes up with her plea.
And the answers to those are gonna dictate how you should behave next.

2) Amount
What's the sum she asked for?
Is it small or large?
Is it congruent with her perceived problem?

3) The "why me?"
Why did she come to you, and not a close friend, work colleague or family member?

Ok, now that we have laid down the basics, let's dive in to the root of the matter

• What should I answer?

First of all, your default answer should never be no....but it should never be yes either.

Unless she is a sex worker that is only after your wallet, saying no right from the bat creates heavy negative compliance...why?
Because women are emotional creatures.

If in her head, for whatever reason, she is dreaming about you as the perfect man, it would destroy that image and replace it with a Mr Scrooge montage.

Buy if you say yes, it creates another slew or problems that you don't want in your life (we will investigate that in a moment).

So what should we answer?
The answer is, absolute nothing!

What you can do is this:
a) you completely IGNORE THE QUESTION, like it's not even there;
b) you start to probe for more information;
c) you start to think about alternative solutions to show that you care;

• What the red pill doesn't get

My beef with the red pill was never about their basic demands for men's rights.
What rains on my parade is their fucking dumb execution.

A red piller would probably chastise any woman that asks him for money.
He can only see this situation in black and white and not get a grasp of the nuances that are happening in the real world.

A seducer, on the other hand, should always be looking for an angle to extract the best outcome of any situation involving the opposite sex.

• Ok, she gave me more information and her problem is legit. Should I still deny her resquest?

What happens when you give money to a woman that is not your de-facto wife or serious gf?

IT SETS YOU UP AS A PROVIDER FOR LIFE....PERIOD.

Once you are slotted there, there's nothing you can do to change it in the future.
She can be the most sweet girl ever, but if she sees you as her provider, good luck trying to get into her pants and setting up a decent relationship with her.

It doesn't matter if her problem is legit, or if the sum is too small and a drop in the ocean for you.
Your default mode is to never give money (or gifts) to a woman you are not super serious with (and has not proved to be 100% reliable and level-headed)

Just think about it...
Giving money creates a precedent for her to not solve her own fucking problems

And she will always come back for more every time she has a need for some benjamins to solve her issues.

• Guilt tripping and our hypocritical society

Women are very smart.
Even the dumbest ones know how to emotionally manipulate a man to get what they want.

Once they realize they won't get the greens, THEY WILL TRY TO GUILT TRIP YOU and turn you into a bad cruel guy.

They'll probably tell you a sad story about how their families are never there, that they have no real friends, that the world is a grim dark place for innocent women like themselves.

And you have to be very aware that sometimes it's not done from a place of malice or ill intent...
It's just how they have behaved their whole lives to get what they desire.

My niece is 7 years old and has been doing exactly that with me since she was 3 or 4.
She is not pampered or anything like that...in fact she is a very normal kid.
But she just can't take the first no...so I have to be firm and stick to my guns.

Also we live in a very hypocritcal society that has strong double standards when it comes to men.

We are the r@pists, the offenders and the villains untill someone needs help to get their problems fixed.
Then they remember we can be great providers and protectors.

Call me a dickhead all they want.....just fuck them all.

• So fuck society's hypocrisy and your inner white knight...you are a good person!

With all that said I'll tell you the blatant truth:
You are a good person!

You probably have helped A LOT of people along your way.
People you don't even remember have passed through your life and got better because of you!

(I'm sure they even say a prayer or two when they think about how you improved their lives without realizing it.)

You were there when it mattered the most!

So never, ever, feel guilty by denying a woman's request for anything.
You don't have to, and it doesn't make you a bad person or a shitty provider.

Think with your cool head, not with your heart (or with the brain chemicals you get when you meet an exciting new woman).

Bury that inner white knight seven feet deep and plant a big middle finger tree on top of it.

Furthermore, don't strive to be perfect in an imperfect world.
Strive to be decent, fair, and reliable to those that really matter to you.

It's way more than most guys do anyway.

Peace.
~POB

 

[Adventurer]

Great post

Girls sometimes also ask for money later. After you met 2-3 times and had sex, they see you care about them and come up with a story so you send them cash. The answer is exactly the same as in the post, ask for details and come up with either a solution or an excuse.

 

[POB]

Great post

Girls sometimes also ask for money later. After you met 2-3 times and had sex, they see you care about them and come up with a story so you send them cash. The answer is exactly the same as in the post, ask for details and come up with either a solution or an excuse.

Happens to me at least once a year.
I do exactly that: solution or excuse

 

[KJ Francis]

Girls just straight up ask for cash?? I would retort to meet me at a certain street corner wearing a miniskirt and I'll give her $10.

I see requests to provide for a woman as a subconscious evolutionary driver to protect and raise children. Outside of a serious relationship on that tract, it's veering toward betaization attempts from that same driver, but will kill her attraction if she succeeds. You're providing a support base without using her reproductive resource. On baby tract, you're providing for your own gene combination with her, which is conversely the ultimate "us" team frame.

So after seeing someone a few months, I knew she'd leave after reaching the ceiling toward domestic life together. So my solution was to have her dress in glasses, a white button up shirt, and a pencil skirt, then sit down in front of Excel and make a budget. It became a low effort project of tasking her and building compliance in a way beneficial to her. I had her do the work at home to get new quotes for things like car insurance, changing plans for recurring bills, etc. She only once mentioned how she had quite often left my place and dropped back food before leaving for the day. She could not argue when I pointed out she came out significantly further ahead and will continue saving money as time goes on.

Most of the time was spent rewarding her efforts by fucking on the rolling chair.

 

[Skills]

Happens to me at least once a year.
I do exactly that: solution or excuse

Yes is happening a lot last couple years.... I didn't understand your response to the request... I also don't say yes or no but redirect them to alternatives...

 

[POB]

Girls just straight up ask for cash??

They do...it has become a trend.
Blame OF and the suckers who pay for it I guess.

I didn't understand your response to the request... I also don't say yes or no but redirect them to alternatives...

Exactly this...work with them to find alternatives, never give straight yes or no, never mention money again.

 

[Skills]

Girls just straight up ask for cash?? I would retort to meet me at a certain street corner wearing a miniskirt and I'll give her $10.

I see requests to provide for a woman as a subconscious evolutionary driver to protect and raise children. Outside of a serious relationship on that tract, it's veering toward betaization attempts from that same driver, but will kill her attraction if she succeeds. You're providing a support base without using her reproductive resource. On baby tract, you're providing for your own gene combination with her, which is conversely the ultimate "us" team frame.

So after seeing someone a few months, I knew she'd leave after reaching the ceiling toward domestic life together. So my solution was to have her dress in glasses, a white button up shirt, and a pencil skirt, then sit down in front of Excel and make a budget. It became a low effort project of tasking her and building compliance in a way beneficial to her. I had her do the work at home to get new quotes for things like car insurance, changing plans for recurring bills, etc. She only once mentioned how she had quite often left my place and dropped back food before leaving for the day. She could not argue when I pointed out she came out significantly further ahead and will continue saving money as time goes on.

Most of the time was spent rewarding her efforts by fucking on the rolling chair.

This made me lol, you act did this??i like the idea... But maybe complicated...

 

[TomInHo]

They do...it has become a trend.
Blame OF and the suckers who pay for it I guess.

You meeting these girls online?

Can usually spot the kind of girls that will do this. They tend to be lower income or if you look at their photos they max out their fundies and present their profiles similar to how top male dater do

They are undercover sugar babies so have been conditioned to make sex more transactional

Also doesn't help that you are older so they assume you are okay with that dynamic too. And most younger women online will target older men for this exact purpose... just something to be aware about

Exactly this...work with them to find alternatives, never give straight yes or no, never mention money again.

Tbh them asking for money before sex is rare for me. Might happen 1 out of 50 leads or so, which is why I don't really give a shit about it but it does happen

When it happens it's usually because I was gaming a girl in the above categories. And when they ask I tell em to go on seeking because there are lots of men willing to pay

If I lose the girl I honestly don't care because there are many others that won't ask me for money upfront

I have noticed tho a larger amount of my FBs are or have been in sugar daddy relationships though

 

[POB]

You meeting these girls online?

And offline

Can usually spot the kind of girls that will do this. They tend to be lower income or if you look at their photos they max out their fundies and present their profiles similar to how top male dater do

They are undercover sugar babies so have been conditioned to make sex more transactional

No sex workers, not SBs...just regular chicks asking for help (like to pay an eletric bill or for a non-cosmetic treatment, like getting a bad tooth removed)

Also doesn't help that you are older so they assume you are okay with that dynamic too

This plays a role for sure....but my guess is with the economy in the toilet, people are getting more desperate and upfront about needing cash.

Tbh them asking for money before sex is rare. If it does it's usually because I was gaming a girl in the above categories. And when they ask I tell em to go on seeking because there are lots of men willing to pay

Most young girls here are in that category.

I have noticed tho a larger amount of my FBs are or have been in sugar daddy relationships though

Also another growing trend that got a big spike because of the pandemic.

 

[TomInHo]

And offline

No sex workers, not SBs...just regular chicks asking for help (like to pay an eletric bill or for a non-cosmetic treatment, like getting a bad tooth removed)

Ok that makes sense

It's mostly the age gap then that is causing this dynamic. They also know you are financially well off so that is a way for them to get you more invested in the relationship

It's like a way of asking for relationship progression

And like you said how you handle it is really up to you. I personally don't see anything wrong in supporting someone you care about if you have the financial means to do so

But if you do it is going to make them view the relationship as more serious and those asks can continue because you setting a precedent you are willing to provide

Think the best way to go around it is to date more girls that are financially stable so they don't have to lean on you as much if you prefer not to provide financial support at that level

For me personally this one of the reasons why I tend to keep girls below 24 as FBs. Prefer to date women that are a bit more stable and prefer to call me Daddy inside the bedroom more than outside of it

 

[L8D8]

This happened to me with a woman who had been a friend and neighbor for a couple of years. Turns out her fiancée was fucking my wife but I didn't find out for 9 years. When I found out I divorced my wife then wanted to bang the neighbor for cosmic balance (and she was a very hot redhead). We dated for a while but she wouldn't sleep with me. I didn't even know the expression "friend zone" back then but somehow I knew that that's where I was. One day she called me at work asking for $1,500 cash. She begged me and even offered her piano as collateral. I told her no and held firm despite her pleading. I knew that was the last time I'd hear from her, and it was. Bottom line, if she's not my established gf then no way am I giving cash to woman.

 

[Skills]

This happened to me with a woman who had been a friend and neighbor for a couple of years. Turns out her fiancée was fucking my wife but I didn't find out for 9 years. When I found out I divorced my wife then wanted to bang the neighbor for cosmic balance (and she was a very hot redhead). We dated for a while but she wouldn't sleep with me. I didn't even know the expression "friend zone" back then but somehow I knew that that's where I was. One day she called me at work asking for $1,500 cash. She begged me and even offered her piano as collateral. I told her no and held firm despite her pleading. I knew that was the last time I'd hear from her, and it was. Bottom line, if she's not my established gf then no way am I giving cash to woman.

it is a different context....

 

[Skills]

And offline

No sex workers, not SBs...just regular chicks asking for help (like to pay an eletric bill or for a non-cosmetic treatment, like getting a bad tooth removed)

This plays a role for sure....but my guess is with the economy in the toilet, people are getting more desperate and upfront about needing cash.

Most young girls here are in that category.

Also another growing trend that got a big spike because of the pandemic.

yes matches my experience, and they try post sex as well... and i don't do online... they don't ask directly is subtle, and with me is the word "loan" "borrow", and is more indirect in my case... and yes is like once a year...(though last year i got it 3 times)

 

[POB]

It's mostly the age gap then that is causing this dynamic. They also know you are financially well off so that is a way for them to get you more invested in the relationship

These are always new women.
The women that I date more seriously do have their shit together.

It's like a way of asking for relationship progression

I don't think that's the case.
Like I said, it's more out of pure necessity.
They are just following the current trend of "I'm young, hot and broke, so you should support me in some way".
My frame is rock solid, so I can only imagine what they get away with when dealing with weaker men.

And like you said how you handle it is really up to you. I personally don't see anything wrong in supporting someone you care about if you have the financial means to do so

Yes, but it must have a context.
Like, if she has already proved herself over and over again, we can discuss it.

But if you do it is going to make them view the relationship as more serious and those asks can continue because you setting a precedent you are willing to provide

If she is asking insistently after my first rebuttal, she probably won't last much with me.

Think the best way to go around it is to date more girls that are financially stable so they don't have to lean on you as much if you prefer not to provide financial support at that level

For serious stuff? Damn straight.

For me personally this one of the reasons why I tend to keep girls below 24 as FBs. Prefer to date women that are a bit more stable and prefer to call me Daddy inside the bedroom more than outside of it

In my case, I always got better relationships with 28 and above.

 

[KJ Francis]

This made me lol, you act did this??i like the idea... But maybe complicated...

Yeah maybe like four sessions over a couple months. I had her email me the raw online banking export of transactions and spent like 5-10 minutes grouping by category. So I had a starting point list of rounded up monthly amounts for gas, groceries, utilities, etc.

Then in person I had her sum the numbers, subtract from salary, etc. Then play with the amounts to calculate the benefit of lowering things. Optional I had her calculate the value in number of pre-tax working hours.

So then it was pretty easy just highlighting items she could lower. She'd go home and get quotes. I wrote her a short script and sat with her once to call and threaten to leave her internet company, and she got her rate reduced. So I guess this falls under offering alternatives. She liked feeling the accomplishment and me being proud of her.

So the next time it would be simply plugging in the new numbers and seeing the effect. Once the more fixed expenses were final, she opened a new bank account to split her pay direct deposit.

It all started from her always showing up with random snacks or kitchen tools when she was living paycheck to paycheck. So I wanted to keep encouraging the investment and preempt her resenting the imbalance or having a real cash flow problem. So it was all framed like concern for her well being and safety. Instead of me splitting on things it was more like she was happy to pay and I had just led her to saving more than if i had split on lunch, and without any real lifestyle change.

 

[TomInHo]

These are always new women.
The women that I date more seriously do have their shit together.

I don't think that's the case.
Like I said, it's more out of pure necessity.
They are just following the current trend of "I'm young, hot and broke, so you should support me in some way".
My frame is rock solid, so I can only imagine what they get away with when dealing with weaker men.

Yes, but it must have a context.
Like, if she has already proved herself over and over again, we can discuss it.

If she is asking insistently after my first rebuttal, she probably won't last much with me.

For serious stuff? Damn straight.

In my case, I always got better relationships with 28 and above.

Got it. Looks like we on the same page

It's good you bringing this up because this behavior from women is starting to increase because of the economy going down and also the availability of simps

The simps are conditioning these girls to be entitled and expect you to spoil or help them just because they are women

But it looks like you handle this dynamic with social guile

 

[Skills]

Yeah maybe like four sessions over a couple months. I had her email me the raw online banking export of transactions and spent like 5-10 minutes grouping by category. So I had a starting point list of rounded up monthly amounts for gas, groceries, utilities, etc.

Then in person I had her sum the numbers, subtract from salary, etc. Then play with the amounts to calculate the benefit of lowering things. Optional I had her calculate the value in number of pre-tax working hours.

So then it was pretty easy just highlighting items she could lower. She'd go home and get quotes. I wrote her a short script and sat with her once to call and threaten to leave her internet company, and she got her rate reduced. So I guess this falls under offering alternatives. She liked feeling the accomplishment and me being proud of her.

So the next time it would be simply plugging in the new numbers and seeing the effect. Once the more fixed expenses were final, she opened a new bank account to split her pay direct deposit.

It all started from her always showing up with random snacks or kitchen tools when she was living paycheck to paycheck. So I wanted to keep encouraging the investment and preempt her resenting the imbalance or having a real cash flow problem. So it was all framed like concern for her well being and safety. Instead of me splitting on things it was more like she was happy to pay and I had just led her to saving more than if i had split on lunch, and without any real lifestyle change.

Yes what i suspected this is more part of what i call fixer upper game... No necessarily what op is about which is more like a shit test tbh...

 

[TwoNameGame]

I do exactly that: solution or excuse

What would be a good excuse? My rich grandfather used to say BS like, "You have my support, but what you're asking for is a bit tricky. I'll check some things and get back to you, but in the meantime, is there anything else?"

I don't know how, but responses like this made people feel supported even if he never coughed up money or followed up. He was known as reliable despite it essentially being known as a soft "no" within some social circles.

 

[POB]

What would be a good excuse?

"Could you give me more information so we can think about it together and find the best available solution?"

My rich grandfather used to say BS like, "You have my support, but what you're asking for is a bit tricky. I'll check some things and get back to you, but in the meantime, is there anything else?"

This is actually a great response!
More or less what I do, but with different words.

I don't know how, but responses like this made people feel supported even if he never coughed up money or followed up. He was known as reliable despite it essentially being known as a soft "no" within some social circles.

Exactly my point!!!
Show you are supportive, never give money.