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How to feel that the girls I like the most will also like me?

ChrisXKiss

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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I would like to raise an inner game issue I've discovered in myself and ask for opinions on the best way to deal with it. The general idea is that the more I am attracted to a girl, the less I feel she will be attracted to me. To expand on that, I may be attracted to a number of women I see and meet, but there are certain ones that really make me feel instantly "wow, this girl yes!". It doesn't happen very often, but it does from time to time, and I have a feeling it is connected to the "love at first sight" idea Chase explains in certain articles. The problem is that the next thought that comes to my mind after this initial "wow" is usually a self-defeating "why do I have to experience this again and not get together with such a girl" or a quite needy "I really hope she's also attracted to me". It's not always equally strong, it's worse in social circle situations in fact where I may even try to avoid the girl completely, while in cold approach, I may go open, but will be ready for rejection subconsciously, and won't take risks screwing myself up. The one field report I have written in the forums was for such a girl.

The most twisted thing regarding all this is that later I often find evidence that at least some of the girls I felt like that and never made moves on, did like me! So it's not even that they are truly never attracted to me, and I logically understand that since I feel so primally attracted to them, they will also probably feel something back. However emotionally I can't convince myself. And although I feel that technically I should approach these girls like any others, the fear of my desire overwhelming them and making me look needy and try-hard, often drives me to act more aloof, which looks like I'm uninterested at best, or fake at worst.

For a while I thought it's just of matter of getting with higher caliber women again and again until you get used to the types you like a lot and you can have normal interactions without caring if they like you. But I feel that you will always meet some women that you want a fair bit more than others. So what should my mindset be when I meet a "wow" or "love at first sight" girl that I clearly want and care about the outcome, in order to approach and seduce her effectively, and are there ways to cultivate helpful mindsets in situations like that? I would assume that the technical aspect of the seduction would go similarly to the interactions with any other kinds of girls if these mental blocks are shattered, that said any type of technical insight is always more than welcome.
 

Jan

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It is indeed an inner game issue.

In my opinion, you should be able to fix it by changing few thoughts/attitudes.

This thought: "The general idea is that the more I am attracted to a girl, the less I feel she will be attracted to me." You need to change it. I think the reason why you have developed this thought is coming from past experience. Probably, you approached some girl/girls, who you liked a lot, you were emotionally overwhelmed, showed her too much attraction and she got afraid/turned off because it was too much, too fast.

I suggest that you change this thought to something like: "Next time, when I see an attractive girl, and when I feel emotions flux, I will try to control myself better and THEN SEE if she is or she is not attracted to me." There are few things which are good about this approach: First of all YOU ARE NOT MAKING ASSUMPTIONS. You see, you can't really know if a girl is or is not attracted to you IF YOU DON'T APPROACH HER. So you can't GO REALLY COLD and expect that anything will happen.

Here is the thing. As I said, you probably approached few girls which you liked a lot, got rejected and AS A SOLUTION, you decided to go COLD ON HER. Unfortunately, JUST BEING COLD doesnt' work. Instead, what you need to do is GO LITTLE COLDER!!! Let's say there is a scale 1-5. 1 - very cold, 5 - very hot. In the past, you felt very strong emotion ('love from first sight') and so you went very hot on her (5). As I said, she got afraid/discouraged. THE SOLUTION IS TO GO COLDER, so try going 4 and see if it's gonna work you. If not, GO 3 - neutral. You get the point. It's basically black and white vs all shades of grey type of mentality.

If you see a girl who seems like a 'love from first sight' instead of approaching her like you are going to be together until of days, approach her to see if is a cool companion THAT NIGHT!

Good luck!
 

ChrisXKiss

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Thank you for the response Jan!

Yes it's true I've been having a lot of black-white mentality in general. I guess my issue with the grey area is that a lot of times I've tried that, being flirty with a girl but not showing clear interest, there is a point when she gets frustrated and pulls away. I suppose the solution to that is escalating more when the windows are open. It hasn't been very easy for me to recognise what the correct action is in situations like that, though. For example, ways to ask for a date or to take her home that feel natural and not forced or clumsy, especially when she is not showing intense desire for you, but just slight hints. That said, I do feel that by experience and coming back to check relevant articles when I have a specific problem, I do improve gradually.

When it comes to mindsets I agree that the one you pointed out is pretty unhealthy. I feel that the underlying mindset I've had since school, when I was totally focused on studying and was mostly at home with minimal social life, was that: "What would an attractive woman want to do with a guy like me that is just studying all the time and doesn't even have a social life?". By lately being unemployed with a lot of free time and still not that good with girls, I have realised that being busy is not the problem. I mean I've even had girls reject me now because they felt I'm too chill and doing nothing with my life, and I was like wtf, they didn't want me when I was extremely busy, they don't want me when I am extremely not busy, what's the deal? I guess we arrive at the black white thinking again, and the grey area where you are busy, but you still have some time to spend on women.

And the crucial part is social life and skills in general. Because I wasn't that good with these either back then or now. I think at some point I felt that all that should matter is being confident when you approach and the women will feel it. But since I started approaching regularly, most of the girls I really like are either treating me as a cute little boy friend having polite conversation and never answering back even if we exchange numbers, or they ignore/reject me right away with a vibe of: did you really think I would go for someone like you? So it's pretty difficult to even try to go to the grey area with these girls, since they rarely give me the chance to. It feels forced to start teasing/flirting/chase framing when they are just polite and they generally reject compliance requests, while of course when they ignore/reject me right away I've tried staying there to turn it around, but normally it is just bothering them and it can easily go pretty bad...

All in all, I feel it is mostly a value problem. I mean surely the mindset helps, and I believe if I really adopt the mindset you are describing I will get some success with girls I like a lot that I end up spending more time with either through social circle or if they give it a chance to get to know me in cold approach. However unless I really increase my value, so that they give me more chances and hook better sexually, it will be difficult to really have the productive mindset of seeing whether an attractive girl is or is not attracted to me, because now even thinking that they may be attracted to me is many times incongruent with my experience of being treated politely/ignored/rejected instantly.
 

Jan

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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It's seems to me that you have identified FEW or even SEVERAL different problems in your game.

Since you are sharing so many different problems, it's difficult to address all of them here.

I can recognize most of these problems because I had them myself.

I can only tell you that there is a solution to each of them.

However, you are doing yourself a disservice by meshing them all together into a large rant.

I suggest you make a LIST OF ISSUES (don't bother about making it complete, it would be a black-white mentality again). If you have 5-7 issues on the list, the list is complete.

Reprioritze the list (make sure that the top 3 most important issues are on the top) and GO OUT AND WORK ON THE FIRST ONE.

Each issue should have a solution assigned to it. Then you go out and try the solution. If something changes for the good, you keep the solution and refine it. If it doesn't - first you calibrate the solution and check again. Only if you tried, and calibrated the solution, you check a different solution.

WHAT SHOULD BE YOUR EXPECTATIONS?

Since you have MANY DIFFERENT ISSUES you SHOULD EXPECT that you will be FAILING A LOT and feeling lots of negative emotions. That's YOUR CURRENT STAGE. I've been there too. That's the nature of the game. Any game. If you are beginner or intermediate athlete, IT'S HARD. Both physicially and emotionally. Don't expect easy way, because it will make your journey EVEN HARDER.

The most important tip for you: DO NOT SPEND TOO MUCH TIME ANALYSIS. Analysis is good and helpful, but in your case - you want to ACT MORE, THINK LESS.
 

Zoro

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Your mind is like a machine that processes information.

In comes some data (life experience, idea, thought) and through the mind it gets processed through filters, beliefs, intentions, etc. and out comes the conclusion.

For some people, a negative life experience (e.g., failure or rejection) can come into the mind and out comes a positive empowering conclusion (I learned a lot, I will grow from this, it's no big deal, laugh it off and refocus).

For some people, a positive life experience (e.g., success, unexpected fortune) can be mentally processed and out comes a dis-empowering conclusion (I don't deserve this, I can't get this on my own, I can't sustain this).

Those beliefs, intentions, and filters your mind has can be changed.

But they can be hard to see, like looking for fish under the water.

I suggest a few things to work on your mental model...

1. Meditation - This helps you become aware of what processes are already going on, which makes it much easier to address them, and let go of disempowering ones. There are a tons of other benefits to meditation so it's a great habit in general. Often meditation alone can drastically improve your mental model.

2. Visualization and Affirmations - Getting your mind used to the idea of you succeeding is useful. Getting clear on what you want to happen makes it more likely you will recognize and act on opportunities that arise. One thing to note: do these when you are very relaxed, your mind is more susceptible to influence when relaxed. There are actually brain wave states (alpha, theta) that are associated with being able to reprogram your mind. You can use binaural beats or classical music to help. Meditation also helps induce these states. Exhale for longer than your inhales, through your nose.

3. Get familiar with empowering philosophies. I really like some ideas from stoicism and existentialism. I'm not even sure I really understand or know the philosophies well, but I do know I have some nuggets from them. Such as, the idea that life is always giving you opportunities to grow, for your sake. That you have influence over your own mind, and that it's important to let go of what is out of your control. That your destiny is up to you to define. A "good" philosophy is essentially a useful strategy for life that enables a man to enjoy it more, have more success, and see the world more clearly.

I'll add in a GREAT book. "How to be an Imperfectionist" by Stephen Guise. This book is sorely unknown. We are imperfect beings and embracing this can lead to more action, more success, and high quality output.

Another good book, Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz. It's on changing how you perceive yourself.
 

Zoro

Cro-Magnon Man
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what should my mindset be when I meet a "wow" or "love at first sight" girl that I clearly want and care about the outcome, in order to approach and seduce her effectively, and are there ways to cultivate helpful mindsets in situations like that?

The mindset should be "this is normal". Like you are eating breakfast or driving your car or going out to lunch... sleeping with women you really like is as normal as eating your favorite meal. You do it all the time, and while you love doing it, it's not some momentous event.

Also a good thing to remember is one man's 10 is another man's 7 or 8. I've seen girls I thought were angels incarnate walking the earthly plane, and I point her out to my wingman and he prefers her friend who I wouldn't even approach as a warm up.
 

ChrisXKiss

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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374
It's seems to me that you have identified FEW or even SEVERAL different problems in your game.

Since you are sharing so many different problems, it's difficult to address all of them here.

I can recognize most of these problems because I had them myself.

I can only tell you that there is a solution to each of them.

However, you are doing yourself a disservice by meshing them all together into a large rant.

I suggest you make a LIST OF ISSUES (don't bother about making it complete, it would be a black-white mentality again). If you have 5-7 issues on the list, the list is complete.

Reprioritze the list (make sure that the top 3 most important issues are on the top) and GO OUT AND WORK ON THE FIRST ONE.

Each issue should have a solution assigned to it. Then you go out and try the solution. If something changes for the good, you keep the solution and refine it. If it doesn't - first you calibrate the solution and check again. Only if you tried, and calibrated the solution, you check a different solution.

WHAT SHOULD BE YOUR EXPECTATIONS?

Since you have MANY DIFFERENT ISSUES you SHOULD EXPECT that you will be FAILING A LOT and feeling lots of negative emotions. That's YOUR CURRENT STAGE. I've been there too. That's the nature of the game. Any game. If you are beginner or intermediate athlete, IT'S HARD. Both physicially and emotionally. Don't expect easy way, because it will make your journey EVEN HARDER.

The most important tip for you: DO NOT SPEND TOO MUCH TIME ANALYSIS. Analysis is good and helpful, but in your case - you want to ACT MORE, THINK LESS.
Thank you for the response Jan, I agree with the approach you propose in general.

In fact, I wasn't trying to rant at all and don't find it helpful, I was trying to analyse my thoughts and connect them together, in order to find this list of important issues. My idea is that a lot of these things cannot just be treated in isolation and I have been trying to find out what are the most appropriate steps so that I can be effective tackling them. For example as I said, having negative mindsets is one thing but how do you change them without having the real life results to back the new mindsets up? And if you go out how can you even get these results in the first place without the right mindsets? It seems a bit of a double bind regarding where to start.

My thinking is that you keep going out, and you target your seductions technically forgetting what your mind is telling you. By sheer exposure and application you will get some results and then you will start developing the mindsets as well. And I have been doing that in fact, and have felt a difference; women I would consider very attractive in the past I see them now and feel they are just not that special, and there are other women now that I feel way more attracted to. My original post was mostly about whether the goal is to get so much experience with women that simply no woman feels particularly special and you could replace any of them easily. If that's it, then I can keep going without caring about mindsets that much and at some point I will reach it. But if there will always be some select women you like more, and would like to be more around, then no matter the seduction level there needs to be a mindset shift to interact with them successfully.

To build a mindset though, that you can be attractive to the women you like the most, you do need some kind of life that you have taken care of, friends, some purpose, some fun things to do. If you don't have any social life or skills, it's difficult to even convince yourself that you can be a good addition to the woman's life. Maybe if you are good in sex, but at some point you will need to socialise more with her especially in a more long term scenario. So you see how social life also connects with the mindset building?

That was the main point of my previous post, that eventually building a mindset regarding women is more than the way you think about women. It's not even just about how you approach or interact with them. It has to do with how your whole life functions and how secure you are in it. The technical parts of the seduction I've been going out, practicing them, of course I can do better as well, but I started realising that even if they give me some results, they won't be consistent if I'm simply going out to seduce women without having anything else of particular value in my life.

To conclude, of course I will keep taking action, and improving my seduction skills. Figuring out my biggest issues and focusing on them is important as you mention. Generally I like focusing on the parts of the seduction that I feel I get stuck usually and after I manage them I target the new ones that appear etc. I'm sure I also have some blindspots, like we all do, so at some point I should probably go to a mentor/coach for a more clear assessment of where I am and what I should focus on. At the same time, I will focus more on my life in general as well, since I've realised it is important for my own sense of self-worth to know that I am self-sufficient and have things/people I love.
 

ChrisXKiss

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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The mindset should be "this is normal". Like you are eating breakfast or driving your car or going out to lunch... sleeping with women you really like is as normal as eating your favorite meal. You do it all the time, and while you love doing it, it's not some momentous event.

Also a good thing to remember is one man's 10 is another man's 7 or 8. I've seen girls I thought were angels incarnate walking the earthly plane, and I point her out to my wingman and he prefers her friend who I wouldn't even approach as a warm up.
You know, there is something about your response and the mindset you describe that is deeply enlightening and comforting for me. I never felt like that about sex, in fact for years it was something disconnected from my reality, it was normal for me to not be having sex, I had simply accepted it. Then at some point I just flipped and went like: I want to do it with the hottest women and I will learn how to get it. So I am learning and going for it, but still have not internalised it as something normal.

Would you have any recommendation on how to build this mindset? What I think is probably being more natural with women, connecting better and then escalating will help, compared to approaching with the goal to sleep with a girl because she is hot and focusing on the tactics simply to succeed in getting her to bed.

Regarding the look scale yeah you are right, more exposure to the taste of different people can open your eyes regarding that. I know that some girls I like a lot are not that attractive to everyone, and my logic even generally went: if this guy can be so natural with her and attract her, he probably doesn't like or care about her that much, since that's what I would do. I kinda assumed that every guy is with a girl that even if I think is beautiful, he considers her as nothing really special. Which I guess is true if you consider every woman you like as nothing special, but just a woman you like that you naturally end up together.

PS Thanks for the recommendations of the other post as well, they are things I should give a chance :)
 

Jan

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You're right, I wrongly called it a rant. Sorry for that.

As to your question about your value, and how value serves as a foundation for your mindset and interaction with women. Of course, value is important. However, first and foremost, value should be important for you. All these things like life purpose, achievements, good career, etc - these things you should fix mostly for yourself. It's true that woman value them too, but it's a secondary thing. If you feel that you miss in these areas of your life, focus on them and work on them mostly for yourself. For your own satisfication. And don't try to impress women with these. Impress yourself and women will be impressed with your vibe. With you, valuying yourself and being self-content with yourself.

Being high value, respecting yourself and appreciating your own achievement IS NOT ENOUGH to get your desired women, but it's PART OF IT. Once you have this value, you will still have to go out, make effort, approach, etc. It's not like being high value will automatically bring women to you as some of the red pillers like to believe. However, as I said before IT'S WORTHY TO DO IT FOR YOURSELF.

Something else for you to consider which most likely you don't grasp fully. Women will value different things in men, physical appearance, wealth, status, etc. But bear in mind that what you learn as a seducer is ALSO, value for me. For example: REAL UNDERSTANDING OF FEMALE PSYCHE. I'm ROUTINELY beating guys in field who on paper are higher value than me when it comes to height, wealth, career, etc but I have way more experience, knowledge and understanding of women than they have.

My point is: STRONG GAME IS HIGH VALUE. Women want to be treated certain way (socially, emotionally, sexually). Game is knowing what they want and being able to deliver this to them. THEY WILL VALUE THIS BIG TIME. Just to give you a good example: even if you don't have a great career, great body, lots of money but you are able to focus the conversation on HER, be a good listener, and GO DEEP into her psyche, IT'S VALUABLE FOR HER.

I guess it's best to work on both sources of values, but it takes time so you will probably have to make some choices to prioritize one or another.
 

Zoro

Cro-Magnon Man
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Would you have any recommendation on how to build this mindset? What I think is probably being more natural with women, connecting better and then escalating will help, compared to approaching with the goal to sleep with a girl because she is hot and focusing on the tactics simply to succeed in getting her to bed.

Yes the things I mentioned in the other post was exactly for that. You want to instill a new mindset and the recommendations I gave are to help unravel the old one and prime you for the new one. Also a calm and empowered mind will naturally lean towards a useful mindset, hence the meditation.
 

ChrisXKiss

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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You're right, I wrongly called it a rant. Sorry for that.

As to your question about your value, and how value serves as a foundation for your mindset and interaction with women. Of course, value is important. However, first and foremost, value should be important for you. All these things like life purpose, achievements, good career, etc - these things you should fix mostly for yourself. It's true that woman value them too, but it's a secondary thing. If you feel that you miss in these areas of your life, focus on them and work on them mostly for yourself. For your own satisfication. And don't try to impress women with these. Impress yourself and women will be impressed with your vibe. With you, valuying yourself and being self-content with yourself.

Being high value, respecting yourself and appreciating your own achievement IS NOT ENOUGH to get your desired women, but it's PART OF IT. Once you have this value, you will still have to go out, make effort, approach, etc. It's not like being high value will automatically bring women to you as some of the red pillers like to believe. However, as I said before IT'S WORTHY TO DO IT FOR YOURSELF.

Something else for you to consider which most likely you don't grasp fully. Women will value different things in men, physical appearance, wealth, status, etc. But bear in mind that what you learn as a seducer is ALSO, value for me. For example: REAL UNDERSTANDING OF FEMALE PSYCHE. I'm ROUTINELY beating guys in field who on paper are higher value than me when it comes to height, wealth, career, etc but I have way more experience, knowledge and understanding of women than they have.

My point is: STRONG GAME IS HIGH VALUE. Women want to be treated certain way (socially, emotionally, sexually). Game is knowing what they want and being able to deliver this to them. THEY WILL VALUE THIS BIG TIME. Just to give you a good example: even if you don't have a great career, great body, lots of money but you are able to focus the conversation on HER, be a good listener, and GO DEEP into her psyche, IT'S VALUABLE FOR HER.

I guess it's best to work on both sources of values, but it takes time so you will probably have to make some choices to prioritize one or another.
Yes I agree with your points.

The reason I discussed about being high value in my life is exactly because I feel I am lacking some things myself and my frame ends up being weak no matter the techniques I have in mind. I want to do things that would be important for me so that I can be at ease with myself in general. My issue here is that I am in period where I have decided to do a huge change in the course of my life, and it's kinda like beginning from zero with no value in the new fields I am getting into.

In specific, I had been studying a very theoretical subject, extremely focused on it, and was academically inclined, until during my master I just lost the point of going on to become a researcher and eventually a professor. So after I finished and took a gap year I decided to just look for a job in a different field that looked interesting and could also pay fairly well. That's where I am now still looking, and the thing is that it feels I'm beginning a new life and the things that I value in this one, like social abilities, seduction, financial freedom etc are things I have had almost zero experience with previously. I was simply an academic that didn't care about the little problems of every day people but only for his important field. And the thing is that after leaving this field it's not that I have another particular purpose in my life. It's more like I want to experience, create and succeed but with no very concrete goal, since all I had known till now was academia.

I'm saying these to explain where I am mentally and why I am talking about being high value in life. I mainly mean finding out who I am, what I'm going for and doing that, because all this transition has left me with a weak frame of: what am I even doing anymore and where am I going. So if I meet a professional girl I can easily get sucked into her frame thinking I should have been focusing on building my career all these years and making money, or if I meet an academic sucked into thinking I made a wrong choice and I should be pursuing my PhD now, or even if I meet a hippie thinking I should be living in a van in the wilderness. It's like I see points in all these choices and if someone asks what life I want to live I have some general preferences but not clear ideas about why I should pursue a specific path. I suppose that if I had a better sense of that I could start building my life with conviction and be more secure about knowing what I am doing and for what reason. Maybe the solution is to go after the things I instinctually feel I want and go on from there step by step expecting my frame to strengthen slowly.

And I fully believe in the value of game. That's the reason I'm even here and practice seduction skills anyway. In fact I believe it is the most important thing when it comes to getting girls, that said I do see now that how you feel about your life has a pretty vital impact on interactions.
 

Mr.SocialAcceptableHarem

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I would like to raise an inner game issue I've discovered in myself and ask for opinions on the best way to deal with it. The general idea is that the more I am attracted to a girl, the less I feel she will be attracted to me. To expand on that, I may be attracted to a number of women I see and meet, but there are certain ones that really make me feel instantly "wow, this girl yes!". It doesn't happen very often, but it does from time to time, and I have a feeling it is connected to the "love at first sight" idea Chase explains in certain articles. The problem is that the next thought that comes to my mind after this initial "wow" is usually a self-defeating "why do I have to experience this again and not get together with such a girl" or a quite needy "I really hope she's also attracted to me". It's not always equally strong, it's worse in social circle situations in fact where I may even try to avoid the girl completely, while in cold approach, I may go open, but will be ready for rejection subconsciously, and won't take risks screwing myself up. The one field report I have written in the forums was for such a girl.

The most twisted thing regarding all this is that later I often find evidence that at least some of the girls I felt like that and never made moves on, did like me! So it's not even that they are truly never attracted to me, and I logically understand that since I feel so primally attracted to them, they will also probably feel something back. However emotionally I can't convince myself. And although I feel that technically I should approach these girls like any others, the fear of my desire overwhelming them and making me look needy and try-hard, often drives me to act more aloof, which looks like I'm uninterested at best, or fake at worst.

For a while I thought it's just of matter of getting with higher caliber women again and again until you get used to the types you like a lot and you can have normal interactions without caring if they like you. But I feel that you will always meet some women that you want a fair bit more than others. So what should my mindset be when I meet a "wow" or "love at first sight" girl that I clearly want and care about the outcome, in order to approach and seduce her effectively, and are there ways to cultivate helpful mindsets in situations like that? I would assume that the technical aspect of the seduction would go similarly to the interactions with any other kinds of girls if these mental blocks are shattered, that said any type of technical insight is always more than welcome.
Approach. Today if you can.

You need to get out of your head and out on the street approaching.

Getting comfortable hitting on girls will fix a lot of this. Other half is actually dating super hot girls and then realizing they eat, shit, and do embarrassing things like the rest of us.

Had that lightbulb moment last summer when I went on a date with easily the hottest girl I had gotten a number from. She turned out to be an inconsiderate and insecure person, kinda a loser, but hey that ass was 10/10 :ROFLMAO:

Just goes to show that no matter how hot they are, they're still humans, sometimes unimpressive humans when you take away the looks.

The more and more you equate you and the girl you're talking to as equals, the more you will stop wishing for and hyping them up. Sometimes you have watch your thoughts, and not let them lead too far down day dreaming, force yourself to not check your phone for her texts and just move on with your day. Some of it is a discipline thing.

But approaching and faking it til you make it will prove to your subconscious mind that you are worth their time, because naturally you would only approach if you thought you deserved her number.

But leagues are a thing too, if your not as attractive as her, the odds are against you unless you have other traits that make up for it. Having put in the work on your appearance and fundamentals will definitely help.

Best,

Biggus
 

Zoro

Cro-Magnon Man
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Just want to add that I think you’re on the right track with the other things you’re talking about. Getting experience will help. And building a life you enjoy for your sake will help too.
Maybe the solution is to go after the things I instinctually feel I want and go on from there step by step expecting my frame to strengthen slowly.
Yes, this does wonders for a man’s self esteem and confidence.
 

ChrisXKiss

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Approach. Today if you can.

You need to get out of your head and out on the street approaching.

Getting comfortable hitting on girls will fix a lot of this. Other half is actually dating super hot girls and then realizing they eat, shit, and do embarrassing things like the rest of us.

Had that lightbulb moment last summer when I went on a date with easily the hottest girl I had gotten a number from. She turned out to be an inconsiderate and insecure person, kinda a loser, but hey that ass was 10/10 :ROFLMAO:

Just goes to show that no matter how hot they are, they're still humans, sometimes unimpressive humans when you take away the looks.

The more and more you equate you and the girl you're talking to as equals, the more you will stop wishing for and hyping them up. Sometimes you have watch your thoughts, and not let them lead too far down day dreaming, force yourself to not check your phone for her texts and just move on with your day. Some of it is a discipline thing.

But approaching and faking it til you make it will prove to your subconscious mind that you are worth their time, because naturally you would only approach if you thought you deserved her number.

But leagues are a thing too, if your not as attractive as her, the odds are against you unless you have other traits that make up for it. Having put in the work on your appearance and fundamentals will definitely help.

Best,

Biggus
Yes I agree that action is the most important thing, sadly I've been sick so can't go approach today, but will do as soon as possible. I guess it gave me some time to get in my head while at home haha

And for sure I've experienced myself how exposure helps with that. Just recently I met a girl in a social setting that I found pretty attractive, this feeling of damn, would like to be with her, would she want me? Then talked to her a bit, and she was so logical, like I am quite a logical guy and I could recognise on her mannerisms I have, so I started feeling that you know what, yeah she is pretty, but she doesn't really excite me emotionally. So it really helps to realise that even very beautiful women may just not interest you that much, it humanises them.

Approaching, escalating and getting yourself out there shutting down the little voices of doubt and insecurity seems to be the best practical way to reach the point of feeling worth their time indeed.

When it comes to the leagues yeah I agree, I just believe they are not set in stone. Even women can change their leagues by exercise, plastic surgeries and fashion, imagine how many things a man can do. For me for example, I appreciate stylish women, and I recognise that style wise I am not in the same league as them. I'm still going and approaching them because I like them, and sometimes have gotten results besides having dressed let's say averagely, but it surely will help to improve my general style to get more opportunities with these girls that really value it.
 

Mr.SocialAcceptableHarem

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When it comes to the leagues yeah I agree, I just believe they are not set in stone. Even women can change their leagues by exercise, plastic surgeries and fashion, imagine how many things a man can do. For me for example, I appreciate stylish women, and I recognise that style wise I am not in the same league as them. I'm still going and approaching them because I like them, and sometimes have gotten results besides having dressed let's say averagely, but it surely will help to improve my general style to get more opportunities with these girls that really value it.
There should be a math equation for it - Your odds with getting with her exponentially go down the further you are away from her league. That does not mean it is impossible, but if you are obese and she looks like an instagram model, you would have to grind out WAY more approaches than the guy who has appearance dialed in to get that similar kind of girl.

Now this is all to say I am only using appearance as the only variable in play, when you mix in everything else there can be some guys where you never would guess they have her as there girlfriend, yet, they have a skill that gives them their calling card with women, like impeccable nonverbals or a large wealth, to name a few

But the good news is most attractive qualities you can improve.

I want to point out because this is an exponential function, even slight changes in appearance can drastically make or break your appearance

It’s why those make over shows are so entertaining, you can make someone look completely different by changing their style and giving them proper grooming

It’s also why something like changing fashion or grooming is knowing in the seduction community as one of the fastest ways to look attractive

there was some thread like a year ago about fashion that talks about this effect, im not sure where it is but you can find it if your curious

This is also a reason why I simply don’t bother with some kinds of chicks, I know I gotta work on myself more before I can get to them

Anyways this is my take on leagues: they are not absolute, but the exceptions to the rule are far and few between the farther you are out of her league

Best,

Biggus
 

ChrisXKiss

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There should be a math equation for it - Your odds with getting with her exponentially go down the further you are away from her league. That does not mean it is impossible, but if you are obese and she looks like an instagram model, you would have to grind out WAY more approaches than the guy who has appearance dialed in to get that similar kind of girl.

Now this is all to say I am only using appearance as the only variable in play, when you mix in everything else there can be some guys where you never would guess they have her as there girlfriend, yet, they have a skill that gives them their calling card with women, like impeccable nonverbals or a large wealth, to name a few

But the good news is most attractive qualities you can improve.

I want to point out because this is an exponential function, even slight changes in appearance can drastically make or break your appearance

It’s why those make over shows are so entertaining, you can make someone look completely different by changing their style and giving them proper grooming

It’s also why something like changing fashion or grooming is knowing in the seduction community as one of the fastest ways to look attractive

there was some thread like a year ago about fashion that talks about this effect, im not sure where it is but you can find it if your curious

This is also a reason why I simply don’t bother with some kinds of chicks, I know I gotta work on myself more before I can get to them

Anyways this is my take on leagues: they are not absolute, but the exceptions to the rule are far and few between the farther you are out of her league

Best,

Biggus
Υeah, can't really say if it is exponential or not, don't know of any scientific studies that give quantitative results we can put in an exponential graph 🤣, but I do see what you mean.

That said, on my side, these women that feel out of my league initially are basically the ones I mostly focus on, which is kinda connected to why I made this thread anyway, the girls you see and say wow, yes that's it. I don't get very motivated to go after women I don't feel that strongly about, unless I'm pretty horny or it seems like easy work. I'm more interested in trying, failing a lot and sometimes succeeding with women I really like. I think I have a more achievement oriented focus of I will get the hot women I want even though I shouldn't be able to on paper. This fuels me to keep going, and I mostly see the other attractive women as people to have some fun and fool around from time to time to keep momentum and satisfy sexual needs.

That doesn't mean I don't put effort in improving my general value by the way. But I do feel that having the value of the sexy man that attracts these women that he logically shouldn't is an idea that excites me.
 
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gameboy

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Since I started doing cold approach a couple months ago, I am super mpressed how much women actually mirror your own internal state. If I feel like crap they ignore me, if I'm feeling ecstatic rhey give me huge smiles.

Maybe the same is true with attraction! Which would explain why back in the day i've sometimes been able to pick up 9s and 10s "just being myself" i.e. before I had a clue pickup even existed... which on regular days I would have considered way out of my league...
 

ChrisXKiss

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Since I started doing cold approach a couple months ago, I am super mpressed how much women actually mirror your own internal state. If I feel like crap they ignore me, if I'm feeling ecstatic rhey give me huge smiles.

Maybe the same is true with attraction! Which would explain why back in the day i've sometimes been able to pick up 9s and 10s "just being myself" i.e. before I had a clue pickup even existed... which on regular days I would have considered way out of my league...
Yeah this is true for sure. I've had days with many good interactions with some crazy percentage of numbers closing, where I thought it's impossible, it feels like I will stop a girl and know she will like me, and other days that it feels the whole city despises me. And it is almost always related to my internal state that day. Which is another reason improving your life helps, you feel better about yourself in general and it shows. I've also had the scenario of getting tired, mentally and physically, after a while of going around and approaching, which shows me it's time to call it a day, since most approaches after that feel a lot like work and go downhill fast.

So I do believe that attraction is similar in some ways indeed. There is no way that when you feel a girl is gonna be naturally attracted to you, she doesn't feel this ease in yourself. Some of the earliest tests are probably knee-jerk reactions to this feeling inside her of: Come on, there is no way he is for real... is he?

That said I don't have a similar experience with you when it comes to getting girls just by being myself. The whole reason I got into cold approaching is that I never had success in social circles so I thought screw it, I'm taking matters in my hand. I have to point out though, that even for me with 0 lays before cold approaching there did seem to be girls around me attracted to me. But I just didn't know what to do, especially because I knew I didn't want a relationship and it felt I would jeopardise a lot by going the purely sexual way inside a social circle.

And it never felt like the hottest girls liked me by the way, which is why I'm trying to change my mindsets about them. I do think nowadays though, that this perception of mine has mainly been a combination of two factors: 1) the fact that more beautiful women are more subtle as Chase has pointed, so there is a probability that some very beautiful women did like me and I never noticed, 2) the fact that I literally stayed away from the most beautiful women, because I always naturally despised the friendzone and didn't know how to show interest and escalate, so whenever I would see a very hot woman I would keep minimal contact not to give her a chance to friendzone me, and at the same time not giving her a chance to get to know me and get attracted to me lol

All in all it surely is a mindset thing and taking action and succeeding really helps. I suppose the hardest part is the first few successes with personal 10s, then you start thinking that yeah, I obviously can get them as well. Until then you keep pushing, improving yourself and your game and maintain the belief that if you continue you will naturally reach that point.
 
a good date brings a smile to your lips... and hers

gameboy

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I suggest you go after those 10s regardless. You might be positively surprised by their reactions.

I once laid a girl that I would have thought completely out of my league. I saw her dancing at a student party. She looked awesome, gothic-style makeup, long skirt, tall, with long dyed hair and a great body. I was a bit drunk so I opened her right there.

Turns out the stars were aligned, because she was having trouble with her boyfriend at the time. Apparently he was abroad, she was going to visit him, but then he cancelled her visit abruptly. So a bit of luck was also involved.
 
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ChrisXKiss

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I suggest you go after those 10s regardless. You might be positively surprised by their reactions.

I once laid a girl that I would have thought completely out of my league. I saw her dancing at a student party. She looked awesome, gothic-style makeup, long skirt, and a great body. I was a bit drunk so I opened her right there.

Turns out the stars were aligned, because she was having trouble with her boyfriend at the time. Apparently he was abroad, she was going to visit him, but then he cancelled her visit abruptly. So a bit of luck was also involved.
Yes that is my intention :)

For sure getting lucky is part of the game. However, I would say you deserved it just by taking the shot and going all the way. A lot of people would have made a mistake at one step or another. So you did have something that brought you up to her level even momentarily.

My end goal personally is to reach a point where girls like that want to be long term with me. This absolute abundance of knowing that I can have relationships with them if I want too. I think after that I will probably have a family with one, it's something I feel I would want at some point. But this is something I have in mind for about 10 years in the future, so I believe it is enough time to reach this absolute abundance by then if I put in the work. And well, even if I eventually decide I don't want a family, I guess it doesn't hurt to have it anyway.
 
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