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Socializing  How to have friends who respect you

Verisimilitude

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
461
As I was reading Chase's article on self-esteem, I realized that my friends were killing my self-esteem and giving me a negative image of myself. Constantly making fun of me, saying I'm not funny (even when I told the same joke later to different people and they loved it) and making me feel insignificant in general. And it got to the point where as soon as one jumped on me, they all would agree. But by far the biggest problem was when I actually needed something, if it was someone to talk to, or a ride, or a favor, they WOULDN'T do it. I'm starting now to move away from them and get new friends, friends who respect me.

So this post has two parts: The need to identify bad friends, and how to form friendships that are healthy.

Now, I have read The Passion Trap and I think some of the things applied in there could help me out immensely. But what I'm wondering is how I can project myself as a dominant man to a new group of friends and have them recognize me as such?
 

PinotNoir

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
747
Yeah, those "friends" just sound like dicks. It's best to just do what you're doing and not hang out with them as much.


It's normal for guys to make fun of each other back and forth and be blunt/honest, but there's a line you walk. It's usually just innocent insults that don't continue everyday, and it's usually obvious when it's going too far or too long. When it goes too far or continues too long, then it gets into the "bully" stage, and not meaningful friendships.

If they're guys...
1.) and if don't do favors or any normal friendship stuff and not really "close" like it seems from your example, then it's best to just hang out and talk with them less. In the past, if these guys actually wanted to be friends, I've either had them start being friendlier (in which case I'll start talking/hanging out more with them) or start inviting me to more things since guys don't like to be so "open" and that's like an indirect way (in which case you should turn down a few or every other and then gradually start accepting again). However, if they don't do either of these, then best to just ditch it. You'll feel a lot better; trust me.
2) and they're close friends, then you can just straight up tell them when they say something kind of hurtful like, "Hey man, that's not cool..."

#1 is like the "dominant man" approach as you asked about. A dominant man doesn't need to hang out with guys that make them feel bad because he can find friends elsewhere. No reason to waste energy, emotion, time, etc.


If they're girls, this gets a little bit trickier and something that I'm still working on myself. Here's the reason why it's trickier... If they're girls trying to be like "one of the guys" or a "bro" or something -- sorry girls -- but they just don't get it. They haven't grown up as a guy and in a guy environment, and you have to understand that they're on the outside looking in (much as we are on the outside looking in at their friendships). Most of the time they'll try to mirror guy behavior and say insults at you trying to be one of the guys, but they usually do it way too much. They'll repeat the same insult every time they see you, and then when you stop hanging around them, they'll scratch their heads wondering why and ask you. Another example is flirting with women. Let's say I'm at a bar with some girl/guy friends. I go and flirt with a lady and get turned down. A girl friend trying to be one of the guys will say something like, "Ah, that was terrible! Nice fail." A guy friend will say something more like, "Ah, that was terrible! Oh well, don't sweat it. That's awesome you approached. Can't get any worse right? Go talk to that other hottie over there!" It seems insulting, but it's actually insulting mixed with support and encouragement.

What's been working the most in my experience with these type of women is just correcting. So in this example, she'd say, "Ah, that was terrible! Nice fail." I'd just say in reply, "No, I did fine." Something short and sweet and the opposite of what they said and just said in a flat tone with no emotion. This has worked really well actually, and women learn fast from this.

Now, this is different from a girly girl or girl that you're interested in. Usually girly girls won't say something like the above, and if they do, they see you as lower value and not trying to be your friend really. They just see you as a rung in the social ladder below them. If they're girls that you're interested in, instead you'd say something like "Ah, no big deal" and just brush off any insult and maintain your carefree attitude.

But what I'm wondering is how I can project myself as a dominant man to a new group of friends and have them recognize me as such?

I know a lot of people think of male friendships as this alpha, beta, etc. mentality, but I don't think it's really that way as much nowadays. You'll have some guys as leaders because they're just natural leaders and other guys don't care. For example, when I eat with my buddies, I honestly don't care what restaurant. I may rattle off a couple that I definitely don't want to do. Then you may have someone that's more of a leader (which can change depending on if someone really wants to go to a specific restaurant) and pick one. But just because they decide, doesn't make them the alpha. With friendships, it's more of just like the others don't care that much. And if they do care, then they'll either say something or just not go.

I think this has gone away more because of the huge number of people there are, so you can find people in a common mindset. People don't have to hang around with bullies or jocks or someone they don't have any interests with because there is no forced tribe. You can live fine independently. And because people usually want to be around other people, then most everyone is willing to make some compromises.

It sounds like you just need to find better guys that respect you, or just better guys in general. Friendship should be where you just act yourself, no reason to "game" it really in my opinion. If they scratch your back, scratch their back. If they don't scratch back, then just stop hanging around them.
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Nuncle

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
172
I think its a natural process. Growing up, you need friends for a number of real or imagined reasons. To bounce ideas off, learn things from, undergo rites of passage, for support and so on.

You therefore will put up with a lot more crap from friends while you need them around.

When you get older and realise who you are and become settled in this, and also perhaps have your own house/car/hobbies/income, your need for a "circle" or "surrogate family" becomes much less pressing and you can take action to swiftly divest yourself of negative influences. When you do, the positive improvement in your well-being is very noticeable. It's like lancing a huge boil.

New friendships will come but they will be more casual, a pleasant add-on to your life that you can indulge in when you feel like it. And if they alarm you in any way, you will just naturally drop them without really thinking about it. And you may alarm them and they drop you but this is no longer a major crisis like it would have been at school. You just go "damn, that's a pity. Hope I do better next time"

My general advice would be don't be afraid to think the unthinkable. If a close friend is toxic, get rid. Simple as that. Life's too short. But don't get overenthusiastic in this department either and hurt someone you shouldn't. It's a judgment call I'm afraid.

Also, try not to rationalise or go into denial about your friends' betrayals although this is easier said than done. Looking back at some of the things I put up with from former friends, and the things I told myself to excuse them, I am now amazed.

The short answer to the actual question in the subject heading is "Get rid of the ones who don't, regardless of the cost".
 

Verisimilitude

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
461
Make sense. Thanks guys. It just tough when you know you have high value to give to people, and the people you're with don't see it or won't even let you express it. For example, one of my friends is totally getting played by this girl, and I want to tell him as his friend. But even if I did, he wouldn't listen. When I'm around girls or different friends, I'm one person with low energy, a chill dominant vibe, but around my "close friends" I'm another person, more try-hard and not as dominant.

I guess it's just weird being two different people with different value, and it makes me wonder who I really am.
 

Nuncle

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
172
Close friends would imply "old friends" so the version of you seen by different friends and girls is now the more authentic, developed version of you. In fact when old friends see you growing that is often when they start to play up, in an effort to put you back in your box.

If your friend won't listen to you it is because he is playing power games with you and is therefore not worth it. Dump him. That is the only way to stop a game player playing his games. Anything else and he will just see it as another move in the game.

In fact I agree with the other poster that you should perhaps try and lose the idea that friendships is about power and hierarchy. For me the entire point of friendship is to have somewhere you can relax and not worry about those things. I hate when friends try and dominate me but I am would be equally embarassed if I thought I was dominating them.
 

Verisimilitude

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
461
I really don't like seeing friendships as a kind of power struggle, and I usually don't see them to start with like that. But as it progresses I do start to feel used or to feel like one person is higher value. I'd love to get rid of that, and I think it'll come as I start to be more non-judgmental. What I meant by dominant isn't "alpha" but as a guy with more self-esteem. And its tough to just dump people, although its what I think is easiest. I'd love it if they'd see who I've become and respect me for it. But I also realize that things like that rarely happen.
 

Nuncle

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
172
It is tough to dump people but suddenly you reach a point where you want to (in each case) and it then becomes quite easy. Anything you can do to speed up arriving at this point would be a good thing IMO.

It is not a question of wanting their respect, of you doing something wrong and therefore not getting it. These people are not about respect, they are about subjection. Any move to change things on your part will just be seen by them as a move to be counteracted. Even if you temporarily gain a new respect it is too easy for you all to slip back into your old, comfortable roles after a while. And many of them will be actively looking for ways to restore the old roles so you would have to be constantly on your guard.

The best, perhaps only, way to get their respect (but not their approval) is to dump them but ironically that only works if the dumping is permanent.

And if you do that keep in mind that the dumping is for your benefit. The effect on them, whether they are hurt or whether they ignore it, is irrelevant to you.

Anyway why are you saying "it seems tough" to dump them? Is it not tough of them to disrespect you in the first place?
 
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