How to hold a conversation with socially unaware girls after approaching?

[Calibration]

Hi guys,

TL;Dr : if a girl is not used to being cold-approached (regardless of the way I approach her - direct/indirect/situational etc) she'll Auto-reject even if she was attracted to me. How to overcome this?

Sorry for the long post but I didn't want to miss out any details, that may be helpful to answer my question.

I've lost a lot of girls because of attainability in the past several years in cold approach day game. It's not the attainability when the girls realise that I'm out of their league but attainability because they can't comprehend the fact that a stranger CAN approach them.

BTW, coming to the specifics of the problem, I live in a small city in New Zealand (think of an alien land) where most people are not very open to strangers in general. I say general because even men and non-dateable women are not open to socialising with strangers. So, you can imagine how hard it is to cold approach girls. Girls here generally date within their own social circle from their school and Universities. Except for a small percentage of girls, most girls are introverted and they don't go to night clubs and parties, they spend their time reading or playing video games etc. Those who do go out at nights, have a tight social circle with whom they hangout and are not even remotely open to strangers even during nights and when drunk. So, night game is out of question and I personally like day game anyway.

When I approach girls during the day, most of them are not even aware that a stranger can talk to them which is like an out of the world experience for them and they won't even know how to react to my approach, regardless of what method or trick like direct or indirect or situational or whatever form of approach I adopt. Most don't even know why I'm there. They just freeze when I approach them. Some of them appear very flattered and even thank several times for complimenting them but beyond this, they wouldn't know what to say. I mostly go Indirect-direct with most girls or if I go direct, it would be very low-key, complimenting her bag, shoes, dress or sometimes hair etc. I weave in my compliment with normal conversation so as not to fluster them if they are not getting the signals why I'm there. I don't talk a lot or try to make it clear why I'm there so as not to come across as try-hard but it just doesn't register to them that I'm hitting on them or its possible that she can go out me. Some of the girls will just be giggling or blushing with doe-eyes but they can't hold a conversation. Beyond a certain point, it turns out as an interview without her asking me anything or talking to me and just answering my questions or saying thank you or nodding her head for my statements. So, even if they're attracted to me, they don't risk continuing the conversation. Although they don't shut me down because of their non-participation, the conversation dies a natural-death.

There are numerous examples but just to illustrate, this is one I had today with the girl sitting alone at the park. I saw her from a distance and although she noticed me before I noticed approached her, she was visibly unsettled when I approached her. This is how the conversation went:

Me: Hey, I like your hairstyle (the bun on her head)
She: Thanks (She is very very flustered. Although she's giggling, she doesn't make eye-contact confidently but looks at me with an expression like: "Did he just talk to me? Do I know him?")
Me: I continue...You know when I saw your hairstyle from a distance, your bun just makes you stand-out.. kinda unique and looks good
She: Thanks.. it was hot, so I just tied up my hair...(still giggling and her face had turned red and she appeared like she wanted to run away from there or wanted to sink into the ground)
Me: So, what are you upto? Did you finish work or classes? You seem to be just chilling here after a long day
She: goes blank...still with an expression - why is he talking to me? What does he really want? Why is he asking me these questions? What am I supposed to do?.... I thought he just wanted to compliment my hairstyle - I don't think it occurred to her that I'm going to continue the conversation...
She: I'm just waiting for my friends.. still with a big question mark on her face - why is he talking to me?
Me: Cool.. you guys must be having a blast tonight? (we just came out of lockdown only this week)
She: No..still with a confused smile
Me: Ok, nice talking to you..enjoy your time with friends
She: Thanks, nice talking to you too.. still with that unanswered question on her face - why did he talk to me?

Most times, I just go for a close even if it comes across as blunt but she wouldn't be able to fathom that a stranger can ask her out and would sometimes give out her phone number never to reply or she'd say I have a boyfriend. I wouldn't consider all of them were attracted to me and yet rejected. Some of them were genuinely not interested in me to begin with and that's ok but the girls who were clearly attracted from what I can read from their body language, facial-expressions etc still rejected me, I take it as an attainability problem

My wing has a friend who met her through cold-approach a year ago and even to this day, she's mesmerised that he actually cold-approached her and talks about that even after a year she has known him. She is one of those odd ones who took courage to give him a chance as a friend at least

Is there something that I can do to overcome this sticking point?

 

[Smiling_Stray]

Most women aren't used to being cold approached, especially in the light of day. Most guys just don't have the balls. In other situations like at a club or something, it's relatively normal and kind of expected.

From what I can see here, she's wondering why you're talking to her. Who is this guy? Once you've made it's good to give an introduction so she's at least has something to call you, other than "that guy who complimented my hair". Other than that, you need to give yourself an excuse to talk to her. It could be direct like, "I just noticed you sitting here and just had to come over and say, I think you're really cute. My name's Shawn." or something less direct like just walking past where she's sitting and suddenly feeling like you gotta sit down. So you ask "Cool if I sit here?" Normally she'll say yes, unless she's saving that spot or you look like a homeless guy who might mug her or something (normally not the case if you've had shower in the past week). After that, you're really just making chit chat to be social and not just be awkwardly sitting there.

From there, it's really just finding a conversation of common interest and deep diving naturally. Then you can get her contact info or escalate from there. There's plenty on the main site to explain this more in depth. If you're new here, I recommend taking a look at the suggestions on the main page for people who just discovered the site. It's a good place to start and set a solid foundation without getting confused and lost in the ocean of information the main site can throw at you.

Overall, you seem like you did alright. I think she just wasn't expecting you give her much more of a conversation than a compliment. If she was sitting and you where standing, that's already not helping and probably was expecting you to complement and keep walking. Like I said, give more of an excuse. The hair thing was alright, just maybe get yourself on her level physically first by joining her on the bench. Otherwise it seems like you're more invested than she is.

Hope this helps

 

[Calibration]

Thanks. I think this definitely helps - "get yourself on her level physically first by joining her on the bench". Telling my name right after is another thing that could make her think that I'm not leaving after complimenting. Good tips.

Sometimes telling my name without a context comes across awkward. For ex: Hey, I like your hairstyle..when she says thanks and not opening her body towards me or making eye contact & if I still go ahead with my name, it comes across as uncalibrated. Sometimes she might be just shy/unaware like in the above example. So, I won't know whether to tell my name or just eject. What do you suggest?

Another related question I have is, if I tell my name and don't shake hands, I haven't crossed the touch barrier but if I lend my hand to shake hands when saying my name and she doesn't accept it and just tells her name, sometimes it happens and I lose a lot of points, if you know what I mean. How can I deal with this? I've realised sometimes girls do this to just test my behaviour and there is no way I can turn around the situation once I have offered my hand & some girls are shy to shake hands with strangers

 

[ulrich]

I think you ejected too soon.
Yes, it feels super akward but the first seconds of a new conversation are the worst.

I’d say probably you are getting a nervous and don’t know where to go next so you eject because you are out of options.

Keep on approaching and keep on working on your conversation skills and soon you will find both things to say to hook them and the confidence to stay on set enough to do it.

 

[Skjöldr]

some girls wont hook no matter how much you sing and dance for her

Broken Girls for a Broken Game - Male Privilege

maleprivilege.net

 

[Vision]

Hi guys,

TL;Dr : if a girl is not used to being cold-approached (regardless of the way I approach her - direct/indirect/situational etc) she'll Auto-reject even if she was attracted to me. How to overcome this?

Sorry for the long post but I didn't want to miss out any details, that may be helpful to answer my question.

I've lost a lot of girls because of attainability in the past several years in cold approach day game. It's not the attainability when the girls realise that I'm out of their league but attainability because they can't comprehend the fact that a stranger CAN approach them.

BTW, coming to the specifics of the problem, I live in a small city in New Zealand (think of an alien land) where most people are not very open to strangers in general. I say general because even men and non-dateable women are not open to socialising with strangers. So, you can imagine how hard it is to cold approach girls. Girls here generally date within their own social circle from their school and Universities. Except for a small percentage of girls, most girls are introverted and they don't go to night clubs and parties, they spend their time reading or playing video games etc. Those who do go out at nights, have a tight social circle with whom they hangout and are not even remotely open to strangers even during nights and when drunk. So, night game is out of question and I personally like day game anyway.

When I approach girls during the day, most of them are not even aware that a stranger can talk to them which is like an out of the world experience for them and they won't even know how to react to my approach, regardless of what method or trick like direct or indirect or situational or whatever form of approach I adopt. Most don't even know why I'm there. They just freeze when I approach them. Some of them appear very flattered and even thank several times for complimenting them but beyond this, they wouldn't know what to say. I mostly go Indirect-direct with most girls or if I go direct, it would be very low-key, complimenting her bag, shoes, dress or sometimes hair etc. I weave in my compliment with normal conversation so as not to fluster them if they are not getting the signals why I'm there. I don't talk a lot or try to make it clear why I'm there so as not to come across as try-hard but it just doesn't register to them that I'm hitting on them or its possible that she can go out me. Some of the girls will just be giggling or blushing with doe-eyes but they can't hold a conversation. Beyond a certain point, it turns out as an interview without her asking me anything or talking to me and just answering my questions or saying thank you or nodding her head for my statements. So, even if they're attracted to me, they don't risk continuing the conversation. Although they don't shut me down because of their non-participation, the conversation dies a natural-death.

There are numerous examples but just to illustrate, this is one I had today with the girl sitting alone at the park. I saw her from a distance and although she noticed me before I noticed approached her, she was visibly unsettled when I approached her. This is how the conversation went:

Me: Hey, I like your hairstyle (the bun on her head)
She: Thanks (She is very very flustered. Although she's giggling, she doesn't make eye-contact confidently but looks at me with an expression like: "Did he just talk to me? Do I know him?")
Me: I continue...You know when I saw your hairstyle from a distance, your bun just makes you stand-out.. kinda unique and looks good
She: Thanks.. it was hot, so I just tied up my hair...(still giggling and her face had turned red and she appeared like she wanted to run away from there or wanted to sink into the ground)
Me: So, what are you upto? Did you finish work or classes? You seem to be just chilling here after a long day
She: goes blank...still with an expression - why is he talking to me? What does he really want? Why is he asking me these questions? What am I supposed to do?.... I thought he just wanted to compliment my hairstyle - I don't think it occurred to her that I'm going to continue the conversation...
She: I'm just waiting for my friends.. still with a big question mark on her face - why is he talking to me?
Me: Cool.. you guys must be having a blast tonight? (we just came out of lockdown only this week)
She: No..still with a confused smile
Me: Ok, nice talking to you..enjoy your time with friends
She: Thanks, nice talking to you too.. still with that unanswered question on her face - why did he talk to me?

Most times, I just go for a close even if it comes across as blunt but she wouldn't be able to fathom that a stranger can ask her out and would sometimes give out her phone number never to reply or she'd say I have a boyfriend. I wouldn't consider all of them were attracted to me and yet rejected. Some of them were genuinely not interested in me to begin with and that's ok but the girls who were clearly attracted from what I can read from their body language, facial-expressions etc still rejected me, I take it as an attainability problem

My wing has a friend who met her through cold-approach a year ago and even to this day, she's mesmerised that he actually cold-approached her and talks about that even after a year she has known him. She is one of those odd ones who took courage to give him a chance as a friend at least

Is there something that I can do to overcome this sticking point?

This actually has very little to do with her and almost everything to do with your game.

You basically went up to her and said, "I like you. Can you do all the work of having a conversation with me? I don't want to put in any effort... No? Okay, bye."

You went in with a direct opener. Then you started asking questions... she doesn't know what to do because she doesn't have this happen, you came out of nowhere, she probably doesn't know why you're talking to her and then you just bail on the whole thing.

It's really your job to establish comfort with her and make her feel good about talking to her. It's your job to keep things going with her. YOU approached her... YOU want to talk to her... she doesn't know you or what you want or why you're there... does he want money from me? Is he pranking me? Is he a serial killer? She doesn't know.

What you can do about this is have a game plan.

Know what you're going to say in the first 5 to 10 minutes of an interaction. Have things that you can talk to her about where she doesn't have to do all the heavy lifting of having a conversation with you, while you show off your personality, build attraction, and let her win you over...

And yes, I did say 5 to 10 minutes. Most really good daygamers I know, say that you should be in set for 7 to 10 minutes before getting a number/time bridge if you want the best probability of it going somewhere and not flaking.

I've met girls and immediately gotten their numbers from daytime scenarios and it turned into a lay before but that's uncommon.

Asking a bunch of questions and hoping that she'll game you isn't a good strategy. I'm sure it works for some guys but if it isn't working for you, try having some things to say.

Have some canned things to say... canned short stories, canned teases, canned questions, etc. and then learn how to calibrate and evolve what you say and do from that.

It's your job to lead things, move it along, and seduce her... don't plan on her doing the work for you.

 

[RedNeck]

To be fair to the guy … I think he ejected because he wasn’t sure if she was interested or not . So lesson learned : after you do 10 min of solid conversation, then you can judge her interest level ..

 

[Smiling_Stray]

Thanks. I think this definitely helps - "get yourself on her level physically first by joining her on the bench". Telling my name right after is another thing that could make her think that I'm not leaving after complimenting. Good tips.

Sometimes telling my name without a context comes across awkward. For ex: Hey, I like your hairstyle..when she says thanks and not opening her body towards me or making eye contact & if I still go ahead with my name, it comes across as uncalibrated. Sometimes she might be just shy/unaware like in the above example. So, I won't know whether to tell my name or just eject. What do you suggest?

Another related question I have is, if I tell my name and don't shake hands, I haven't crossed the touch barrier but if I lend my hand to shake hands when saying my name and she doesn't accept it and just tells her name, sometimes it happens and I lose a lot of points, if you know what I mean. How can I deal with this? I've realised sometimes girls do this to just test my behaviour and there is no way I can turn around the situation once I have offered my hand & some girls are shy to shake hands with strangers

Hey! Yeah, something to remember: Action over inaction. If you're not sure, it's usually best to just give it anyway. Personally, I always give it no matter what when I approach. Worse thing that happens, they walk away uninterested and forget about ya three minutes later Best case, you build some familiarity. Either way, you learn something and lose nothing. Just introduce yourself. Sometimes, they might need a little prompting too, don't be afraid to ask them for theirs. After all, you just gave yours. It's the only polite thing to do.

As per shaking hands, it's the same thing. Just go for it. Usually they'll take it. If they don't it's no bigger deal than you make it. Just play it cool and don't let it phase you. Then keep going with what you're doing in the conversation.

 

[Gaturro]

This is something I think about frequently… from what you wrote you seem a little uncalibrated. If you believe she’s thinking “why is he talking to me?” then you could answer that instead of following your script. Give her a reason why you’re talking to her.

Sometimes I have approach anxiety because of this exact thing, I believe you need to make clear why you’re approaching, no matter how dumb your reason is. It can be direct or indirect but approaching without a reason usually leads to nothing for me (either flakes / anxiety). It just seems too uncalibrated for me. Guys in the chat helped me change that mindset, you can just say something canned and it’ll work, but for that you need your non-verbals on point, you need to be in a good state.

And yes 5/10 minutes is ideal.