How to level up from middle class to upper-middle class life?

[metalbird]

My Goal: Earn >$500k / year, work in Fortune 500 C-Suite, or high level federal government, or similar level NGO. I want to get paid to travel first class internationally, work on strategic problems (like business strategy or public policy), or work in VC, etc.

Where I'm at Now: Earn > $200k / year FAANG Engineer, no Bachelor's degree but could finish in 1 year, <50k equity total net worth. High IQ/EQ, hard working, always dreamed of getting a PhD. Very typical slightly under-privileged millennial (as traditional university was not an option for me), but smarter/more talented than most people I've ever met. I have some startup experience and good business sense, but zero startup acquisitions under my belt.

Premise:
Over the past couple of years, I've asked a fair number of successful (by definition above) people, "What do I have to do to get to your level of success?" I usually pair this with a suggestion, like, "Do you think I should do ______?" Unfortunately, I have yet to get a single solid, believable, actionable answer, so I'm turning to the GC forum for advice. A sampling of the advice I've gotten (from very respectable and seriously successful individuals):

• "I can't tell you what will work for you, you've got to figure it out for yourself" -- love this one, super helpful
  
  
• "You don't need an MBA to get into C-Suite anymore. When I was CEO of blah blah, we hardly hired any MBAs" -- without any guidance on who they do hire
  
  
• "Everyone has a PhD now. It's not worth the four years of being poor". -- probably true, but a lot of successful people have PhDs...
  
  
• "Graduate school isn't worth it unless you get into a top 5 program" -- this is the only advice I've gotten that seems to be true, based on everything I've seen
  
  
• "It's all about who you know, your network is your net worth" -- thanks Bozo, let me just start cold calling Billionaires...
  
  
• "Just be grateful for what you have, stop comparing yourself to others" -- this is not about ego or competition, it's about my own internal desire to maximize my human potential and impact

Do you guys have any better answers than this ordinary fluff?

- metalbird

 

[Terms]

Unfortunately, I have yet to get a single solid, believable, actionable answer,

Does not exist in my experience, too many variable go into success. Wishing for a simple impossibility will just lead to frustration, which you're directing outwardly with sarcasm and name-calling towards those that don't feed you the impossibility you're hoping for. This isn't an optimal circular feedback loop you've got going.

The fluffy cliche that holds the most value to me is "luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."

So prepare as intelligently as possible for whatever you're going for, and do whatever it takes to put yourself in a position where opportunity can present itself, and when doors inevitably open for you from time to time, you'll be able to take full advantage of them. This is what's most consistent among the successful from what I've seen, whether intentional or not.

Another helpful approach is to study the biographies of those who've specifically achieved what you hope to achieve, and of high achievers in general. That will answer how they did what they did, which can help inform you on your own path, which will be a mix of different and similar.

 

[trashKENNUT]

My Goal: Earn >$500k / year, work in Fortune 500 C-Suite, or high level federal government, or similar level NGO. I want to get paid to travel first class internationally, work on strategic problems (like business strategy or public policy), or work in VC, etc.

Where I'm at Now: Earn > $200k / year FAANG Engineer, no Bachelor's degree but could finish in 1 year, <50k equity total net worth. High IQ/EQ, hard working, always dreamed of getting a PhD. Very typical slightly under-privileged millennial (as traditional university was not an option for me), but smarter/more talented than most people I've ever met. I have some startup experience and good business sense, but zero startup acquisitions under my belt.

Hello.

This is a good start. I hope this helps.

z@c+

 

[Winston]

Building a network is not about cold calling. It's about attending live events where you could meet like minded people. It takes about 1 year or 2 to have a good network in your field, if you are regular at events.

Btw I don't know any financially succesful guy, and I know many of them, who is under a payroll. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Building a network is not about cold calling. It's about attending live events where you could meet like minded people. It takes about 1 year or 2 to have a good network in your field, if you are regular at events.

This.

I became a dance trainer by this, and perform an opening act with my students, for my Country's President at a charity event, in a prominent building.. all within a span of less than 2 years.

Letter invited to perform.

SIDENOTE: People will start sucking your balls, no matter what pronoun and gender it is. You will get surprised at humanity's strive to have the assumption of 'health well being'.

z@c+

 

[Chase]

"I can't tell you what will work for you, you've got to figure it out for yourself" -- love this one, super helpful

lmao

@metalbird,

My Goal: Earn >$500k / year, work in Fortune 500 C-Suite, or high level federal government, or similar level NGO. I want to get paid to travel first class internationally, work on strategic problems (like business strategy or public policy), or work in VC, etc.

Where I'm at Now: Earn > $200k / year FAANG Engineer, no Bachelor's degree but could finish in 1 year, <50k equity total net worth. High IQ/EQ, hard working, always dreamed of getting a PhD. Very typical slightly under-privileged millennial (as traditional university was not an option for me), but smarter/more talented than most people I've ever met. I have some startup experience and good business sense, but zero startup acquisitions under my belt.

Congrats, doing well for yourself income-wise. I take it that's a recent job you've just acquired? If not, you need to be thinking a little more long-term about building capital. At that income you should be able to accumulate a much higher net worth than you have right now.

Okay, so you've got two paths there:

1. Climb the corporate / government / network ladder. Pros: if you're smart, you'll eventually get there. You get paid decently well along the way. Cons: it's going to take a few decades unless you catch a super lucky break. You're not making $500K/year until you hit a high-ish management position in the organization, and you're not likely to get there until you're in your late 40s or early 50s (I'm assuming you're younger). That is both about experience, and about older guys not trusting or wanting a young guy in there trying to "shake things up" or "do things his way" -- you're not getting in there until they trust your passions have cooled enough and you know how to play ball. This is also the value of PhDs -- PhDs say "I know how to follow the rules and work within the system. I have achieved the highest level of rule-following and system-playing-within!" (I'm not knocking PhDs, by the way. Just explaining what they signal. I have good friends with PhDs and I've gone out with girls with PhDs. I think it'd be cool to have a couple of PhDs. If I had infinite time and fewer things I wanted to do in life, I'd go get some myself, just to have that extra feather in my cap)
   
   
2. Develop some skill to a very high level that allows you do get there on your own. The wealthiest guy I know learned how to code apps, then build a game-making app company, which led to him being a boss, then got his company acquired by a much larger company, which then placed him as the boss of an entire country division. He then left, started a new app company with investor backing, confident in his idea but not totally sure it would take off -- at the time he was telling me well, good news is my wife has done very well in her career, so even if the app fails and I'm poor I've got her for support so I'm okay either way -- well, the app took off, got huge, and made him very wealthy. There's a guy doing work for Girls Chase right now where we are just one of his clients... he's extremely talented, a total hustler at his work, and is juggling a bunch of clients at any one time, and is making right about $500K / year off a bunch of different contracts cobbled together because he is just that good and that on-the-ball. Other guys I know who are making 7 figures have learned marketing very well and figured out how to advertise their offers profitably to paid traffic. The guys who make the most money this way typically go this route: learn some highly monetizable skill to a high level (coding, app development, product funnels + paid advertising), generally spending years to develop this, then once their success takes off they build an organization around it and make the switch into management. They then either grow their organization, get acquired by a larger organization (then take a more significant role within it), sell it and enjoy an earlier retirement, or they reach a level where they're content with where things are, enjoy the money they're making, and just coast.

You can fuse these two paths, obviously... develop a skill, start your own thing, build it up, get acquired, and let that zip you to a higher level within an organization, which you can then climb higher in.

Also, one of the best pieces of advice I received in the corporate world was this: if you want a promotion, change companies. It is much easier to get promoted by leveraging your skills and experience to job-hop to a company that has an opening a level higher than you are now than it is to wait around for your company to open a position up and hope you're the one who gets it.

There's a third path, that ties back into net worth, and that is that once you have a decent net worth (which you don't right now) you can begin making strategic investments. For example:

• Perhaps you've heavily researched real estate and found an area slated for development where the property is still super cheap. So you shell out $150K to buy a four-unit apartment complex, fix it up, get new tenants paying a higher rent, and within about 5 years it's worth 7x what you paid for it due to your improvements + development in the area
  
  
• Perhaps you've heavily researched cryptocurrencies, realized most of them are useless things riding on the main cryptocurrency's coattails, discovered that main cryptocurrency follows a cyclical pattern of rising dramatically every four years post-halving, and decide to throw a good chunk of change in now for the long-term. 2025 rolls around and you see a big explosion in net worth
  
  
• Perhaps you decide to take some of the excess capital you've saved up and decide to become an angel investor. 6 of the 7 companies you invest in flame out and go bankrupt, but 1 out of those 7 takes off, gets acquired for a large chunk of change, and you get a hefty payout

None of that is "investing advice", needless to say -- one of the reasons people are hesitant to give specific financial/career advice is because if you take their advice, and it doesn't work out (and it may not), and you lose a bunch of money or can't get your career going, well, many folks will blame the advice-giver. So it is all "use at your own risk."

Hope this gives you some good direction!

Chase

 

[trashKENNUT]

until you hit a high-ish management position in the organization, and you're not likely to get there until you're in your late 40s or early 50s (I'm assuming you're younger). That is both about experience, and about older guys not trusting or wanting a young guy in there trying to "shake things up" or "do things his way" -- you're not getting in there until they trust your passions have cooled enough and you know how to play ball. This is also the value of PhDs -- PhDs say "I know how to follow the rules and work within the system. I have achieved the highest level of rule-following and system-playing-within!" (I'm not knocking PhDs, by the way. Just explaining what they signal. I have good friends with PhDs and I've gone out with girls with PhDs. I think it'd be cool to have a couple of PhDs.

Second this.

z@c+

 

[Warped Mindless]

As a business consultant I can tell you that its absolutely true that fewer companies care about your degree.

People who make 500K+ a year usually fall into one of a few categories:

1) Entrepreneur.

2) Investor.

3) High value skill they leverage to rake in money.

Most people in those three categories will never make 500K+ per year but everyone I personally know that makes that amount is in at least one of those categories, sometimes all three at once.

Sounds to me that you dont wish to peruse an entrepreneurial path but rather work for a corporation. The best advice I can give there is to become very valuable to the corporation and learn to navigate office politics and power dynamics VERY well. This will allow you to get promotions. Even if things are going well dont be afraid to continue to shop around at other big corporation and see if you can get a better deal there. Always keep the long term goal in mind and dont stay at an organization where you feel the possibility of upward mobility is limited.

While doing that you need to spend some time living well below your means. You want to be able to dedicate as much of your income as possible towards passive income investments. Every time you get a raise, continue to live below your means, and put all that extra money in passive income investments. You will have to do research to figure out which investments are right for you. Eventually this will pay off (if done right) and you will be making a lot of money.

I’m a living example of this. I took a high value skill (#3), and used to to start a consulting firm (#1), and I’m living WELL below my means and using the vast majority of my income on investments (#2).

 

[Rakkum]

People who make 500K+ a year usually fall into one of a few categories:

1) Entrepreneur.

2) Investor.

3) High value skill they leverage to rake in money.

How does one know for which they are naturally best suitable (if at all)?

 

[Railer]

My Goal: work in high level federal government

• it's about my own internal desire to maximize my human potential and impact

Mutually exclusive.

 

[Gunwitch]

Speaking out of school here i'm 43 and always worked for myself since I was 19.

From my observation though like @Warped Mindless observed you seem to want to be a "higher up" in a company,

My observation learn to be passionate about and play golf, all these fuckin dudes do man. Could be some odd workplace where it's some other game that shows you are a team player, but figure that out. No one is worth 500k a year, cat out of that bag, hell no one is worth 50k a year in reality probably a monkey can do their job. So it really does seem to be about not "networking" as in business, but kissing asses and showing you are a team player.

So @Chase is astute there with the higher learning investment and age probably as well.

Which leads me to my question "you're young and you got your health what do you want with a job?"

You're obviously curious about pickup, and working 80 hour weeks ain't the path.

Trust me if you aren't having fun or getting laid with the women you want with 200k a year, 500k ain't changing shit. Jokes aside what is your plan to better your life with 500k over 200k? Gonna invest the extra 300k a year in a Roth IRA? YES fuck yeah killing it! Not even kidding dude it sounds like the guy who you ask "what would you do if you had a million dollars?" and he says "I would put it in mutual funds and pay down my credit card debts and..." ba ba ba boring. What if you could do anything you wanted, except earn money?

(For reference too dude, I come from a backwater ass town, and never knew anyone who made 100 bucks a day their whole life, and suddenly had times I was selling 1000 bucks a day in courses and shit way back in heyday of "the game". It changed things like never worrying about rent again, my mom not having to work her fingers to bone at 60, being able to afford to travel and party and go to concerts and shit. It didn't change my game or happiness level though, only free time ever did that, and I had that making a couple grand a month without having to work. So I ain't totally talking out my ass here, why ain't you happy with 200k a year? Is it just relentless self improvement, your dad yell at you if you got a B in school? I just don't get why you feel you have to max out wealth to such extremes.)

Gun

 

[Train]

My observation learn to be passionate about and play golf, all these fuckin dudes do man. Could be some odd workplace where it's some other game that shows you are a team player, but figure that out. No one is worth 500k a year, cat out of that bag, hell no one is worth 50k a year in reality probably a monkey can do their job. So it really does seem to be about not "networking" as in business, but kissing asses and showing you are a team player.

I can attest to the power of golf networking. I have a relative that is in that world and they have/had regular contact with doctors, lawyers, pro athletes, celebs, and other wealthy people (million/billion dollar net worths).

And some of these filthy rich fucks are people no one would identify in a million years who made their money doing mundane shit.

But seems like one has to go to the really nice clubs, not your local public course where any yahoo can go.

The benefits are dope though. Whenever I need some medical help, service, my relative usually has someone on tap lol.

 

[trashKENNUT]

At the end of the day, it is content.

What you say. And what you do. You can only lie so much. No disrespect to traditional way of networking. It was the Internet marketing at the time because there was no Internet.

People have one big problem now. Saving time.

Example:
Hyros by Alex Becker, grow by word of mouth.
I have had local business owners/influencers send me requests on social media because the assumption is "I know what I talk about".

If I remove my eccentric nature, more people will likely follow my real life account. Even Chase would add me on his LinkedIn account though he knows my links in real life.

z@c+

 

[Fuck This]

Don't ask a fish how to catch fish. Ask a successful fisherman

The employees are the Fish. The Fisherman is Corporate Recruiters who make commissions from each person they place. So you need to talk to HR/Recruiting in your company to find out What the job PATH is to get where you want to go.

Often you can move up in pay quicker by moving to another company rather than staying in the Path within one company....That's where a good recruiter can help you scout those oppportunities.

 

[metalbird]

There's a good bit of insightful and useful material in the responses here, which I've been reflecting on. I'm going to start a new thread to take this conversation in a bit of a different direction, but reference some of the replies here.

 

[HoofHearted]

There's a lot of good stuff in here!!!

Golf is just a giant flex in and of itself. It is so goddamned stupid, a huge investment of time and money. I regret nothing, but I as a person am almost as ridiculous as golf.

I feel like swatting you. I have friends like you-- successful by metrics, crushing it. Yet all you can project outwards about is running toward hierarchies in business or academia. What the fuck?

I feel like a generation of men have forgotten how to dream.

You clearly smart and driven enough to do anything you want to do. But honestly, 'what you want to do' seems so prescribed.

Idk, maybe that's really the shit you love. Men have been conquerors, leaders, poets and inventors. And you dreamin' bout being salaried or glossy eyed respected by undergraduates.

 

[Toby2030]

@metalbird A little background before I start giving advice: I started my own company who quickly became very succesful and I later got acquired. I am now a partner in a larger group of companies with a revenue around 20.000.000 USD. We still invest all of our money in growth so we can sell in 5-6 years time, which means I make good money but nowhere near 500.000 USD per year atm. (but will hopefully make a lot more per year I have worked when we sell).

First of all, the optimal way to grow in each field is often different but there's still some similarities.
You need a C-level job in a large company in order to get that high of a salary. People hire based on skill not on education. Of course you need a baseline education but having a PhD will be a waste of your time - you will be able to get higher up in the hierachy by working those extra years.

If you want to be in the top 1%, you have to work harder and smarter than the rest. But remember: A promotion isn't a reward for doing good work. It's an acknowledgement that you can take on more work.

- Work longer days than the people in your department. This is self explainatory. The more you work, the more you get done.
- In every single business there's mostly always 1 thing that you do, that generates 80% of the revenue. Use all of your time on this one thing and try to either outsource or automate the rest. There will always be tasks with minimal impact that we have to do but try to minimize these as much as possible.
- Try to make the company as dependent on you as possible. The more dependent they are of you, the harder you are to get rid of and the more valuable you will become for the company. The goal should always be to become an asset for the company.
- Call in your boss and make a plan about what it takes for you to take the next step in the company. Set some SMART goals that you can evaluate yourself on after a certain period. It will then be easier for you to hold him accountable to give you a raise based on the goals you set together.
- Ask to get a mentor from the company that's on a higher level than yourself that you can talk to bi-weekly or monthly.
- Make sure you are in a company that actually reward people that work hard and give you the possibility to get a better position in the company.
- You should ALWAYS try to expand your horizon in order to get to the next level. Observe the people who is doing well in your field, and try to learn from them.
- Try also the speak with as many different people as possible in your field both at your level, a lower level and a higher level. You will learn different things from each category of people.
- Always keep a beginner's mind and be open to critique from people around us. Once we think we know something or feel like we have mastered it, our motivation to learn will stop. By keeping a beginner's mind, we will always learn.
- Always be outside of your comfort zone. Nothing grows inside it. Always move towards your weaknesses, resistance and pain. This is where you really learn and push your results forward. This means accepting and taking on tasks that you fear that you cannot complete because you either haven't tried it before or because you fear you aren't good enough.
- Learn through trial and error, and make it okay to fail. Failure is such a big part of the progress, and people should rather see failure as an opportunity for improvement, rather than something negative. Failure will guide you further towards your goals.
- Push yourself towards a full understanding of the skill rather than just recipes or tools. You have to know how thing fully work and why they work in order to become great at them.

I hope this helps.

 

[Conquistador]

My Goal: Earn >$500k / year, work in Fortune 500 C-Suite, or high level federal government, or similar level NGO. I want to get paid to travel first class internationally, work on strategic problems (like business strategy or public policy), or work in VC, etc.

Where I'm at Now: Earn > $200k / year FAANG Engineer, no Bachelor's degree but could finish in 1 year, <50k equity total net worth. High IQ/EQ, hard working, always dreamed of getting a PhD. Very typical slightly under-privileged millennial (as traditional university was not an option for me), but smarter/more talented than most people I've ever met. I have some startup experience and good business sense, but zero startup acquisitions under my belt.

Wait, what's with the thread title then?