"I don't trust you"

[Darius]

Hey everyone,

Just had one of the weirdest girls to date. I'm curious what you would have done in this situation.

Party at a friends' place. Lots of people. Not the crazy drinking kind, it's a bit more elegant, the type where social circles meet.

Cute Swedish blonde in the corner, was talking to some guys and she was very vocal in her group's conversation. She had a very boyish vibe and was bantering with a lot of the guys.

I find a way to get close to her incidentally, I open her saying the music could be better (she was saying she's into rock earlier).

We instantly hit it off. We have a conversation of about 50 minutes full-on, during which we talk about sex, women, pretty much everything. She was feeling very bad that "sex is trivialized in Swedish culture", so that was a bit of a warning sign for me but not too much.

I touch her, she responds well. We tease each other a lot. I get her number and text her while she's looking.

When the party was dying down towards the end, I go for the pull. I ask her to come home with me, for some wine and to listen to some rock music.

She LEGIT looks me dead in the eyes and says "I don't trust you". I look at her kind of dumbfounded, didn't say anything. She goes "It's a girl thing".

I tell her that it's a bit hurtful she said that but I understand. She says we can still talk. I say I'm not interested in talking with someone who doesn't trust me, and I encourage her to find someone else she can have distrustful conversations with. I leave.

She chases me HARD. Legit around the party, whatever group I'm in, she's finding a way to come closer. At the end after I leave she texts me some totally random bs - "Halloween is so nice. The autumn leaves are pretty".

I spent a few more texts with her asking her to either apologise and start trusting me or leave me alone. She says "I'm alight thanks".

Guys what the fuck... almost an hour of great conversation and and compliance only to hit me with that. I really liked her too. It totally ruined my momentum, especially seeing her in other groups. And for a moment I really felt like I was an untrustworthy person.

How do you not let this kind of stuff get to you?

 

[topcat]

How do you not let this kind of stuff get to you?

Ay don't beat yourself up over this, girls have a way of pulling out the most seemingly ridiculous things sometimes..

I will say though that this was a classic shit test. I actually think she did trust you, or was at least feeling some feelings of trust towards you but wanted to test you for congruence.

In future treat her like what she said was coming from the mouth of a five year old brat. Laugh and treat her as though she were being ridiculous. She's clearly being too serious, and uncalibrated. Ruining the fun. Dismiss her, tease her, anything. Get her flustered and emotional and then talk her down into a mutually beneficial state that supports further escalation.

But whatever you do don't take her seriously or worse - get emotional.

These tests get the best of us man, just try to remember that they're not serious. The inane babble of a five year old. Have fun with it.

 

[Will_V]

Hey everyone,

Just had one of the weirdest girls to date. I'm curious what you would have done in this situation.

Party at a friends' place. Lots of people. Not the crazy drinking kind, it's a bit more elegant, the type where social circles meet.

Cute Swedish blonde in the corner, was talking to some guys and she was very vocal in her group's conversation. She had a very boyish vibe and was bantering with a lot of the guys.

I find a way to get close to her incidentally, I open her saying the music could be better (she was saying she's into rock earlier).

We instantly hit it off. We have a conversation of about 50 minutes full-on, during which we talk about sex, women, pretty much everything. She was feeling very bad that "sex is trivialized in Swedish culture", so that was a bit of a warning sign for me but not too much.

I touch her, she responds well. We tease each other a lot. I get her number and text her while she's looking.

When the party was dying down towards the end, I go for the pull. I ask her to come home with me, for some wine and to listen to some rock music.

She LEGIT looks me dead in the eyes and says "I don't trust you". I look at her kind of dumbfounded, didn't say anything. She goes "It's a girl thing".

I tell her that it's a bit hurtful she said that but I understand. She says we can still talk. I say I'm not interested in talking with someone who doesn't trust me, and I encourage her to find someone else she can have distrustful conversations with. I leave.

She chases me HARD. Legit around the party, whatever group I'm in, she's finding a way to come closer. At the end after I leave she texts me some totally random bs - "Halloween is so nice. The autumn leaves are pretty".

I spent a few more texts with her asking her to either apologise and start trusting me or leave me alone. She says "I'm alight thanks".

Guys what the fuck... almost an hour of great conversation and and compliance only to hit me with that. I really liked her too. It totally ruined my momentum, especially seeing her in other groups. And for a moment I really felt like I was an untrustworthy person.

How do you not let this kind of stuff get to you?

Man girls come across weird sometimes. But you messed up and got reactive here. Like topcat said it's almost certain she did trust you. But she needed to verbalize her insecurity so that you could deal with it.
The main thing is, react to her behavior not words. She was into you for ages, then chased you around. What comes out of her mouth is irrelevant, she wanted you. Use humor and teasing etc to bat those silly words aside and keep pulling.

 

[Derek da man]

I will say though that this was a classic shit test.

agree but I think I may have walked into it too . . . lol

I actually think she did trust you, or was at least feeling some feelings of trust towards you but wanted to test you for congruence.

Like topcat said it's almost certain she did trust you. But she needed to verbalize her insecurity so that you could deal with it

again I agree with both of these - she was feeling the attraction and more likely didn't trust herself not to be seduced.

If I was on form and my usual quick witted self I would have responded with "you don't trust me?". . . a pause . . . "or you don't trust yourself?" and a cheeky smile.

As already said, do NOT take it personally - it's all about her.

 

[Darius]

Thank you for the advice gents.. looks like I could indeed do with a brush-up on tests and how to react to them (and also on treating women silly and cute). I've been on a validation-seeking streak lately, and it's beginning to bother me. I've been putting off working in this area for far too long, especially finding my own sources of validation instead of looking at other people or worse, women.

As for the girl, I left her on read last night, and she texted me again a good morning text (maybe she's been reading Skills guides ). After the bad vibes of last night, I figured she's more trouble than she's worth, so we had a bit of back and forth and I invited her to my place. Cue another very similar shit test:

Her: Drop it
Her: I'm not good for you

Me: that depends
Me: are you going to tie me up and drag me to some dungeon?

Her: lol
Her: some other time, I'm seeing my BFF later. seriously

Me: alright, well when you're done with him and want to hang out some other time hmu

I think I passed that one. Normally I would have asked her when she's free to try to set stuff up but I couldn't be bothered to be honest. If I do get her to my place I think I'll have some HEAVY resistance before any kind of sex. Feel free to correct me if you think otherwise.

 

[happynanako]

I think she's either teasing you or she just another annoying one.

You can be like "oh, I guess there's still some level of trust since you're telling me this and then laugh it off" if she still behave strangely, just move on

 

[Will_V]

Thank you for the advice gents.. looks like I could indeed do with a brush-up on tests and how to react to them (and also on treating women silly and cute). I've been on a validation-seeking streak lately, and it's beginning to bother me. I've been putting off working in this area for far too long, especially finding my own sources of validation instead of looking at other people or worse, women.

As for the girl, I left her on read last night, and she texted me again a good morning text (maybe she's been reading Skills guides ). After the bad vibes of last night, I figured she's more trouble than she's worth, so we had a bit of back and forth and I invited her to my place. Cue another very similar shit test:



I think I passed that one. Normally I would have asked her when she's free to try to set stuff up but I couldn't be bothered to be honest. If I do get her to my place I think I'll have some HEAVY resistance before any kind of sex. Feel free to correct me if you think otherwise.

At this point it's hard to say what exactly would work but here's my 2c.

I think you need to focus on building rapport and warmth, going on a date etc, not trying to pull now (especially asking her to come to your place over text which way too much investment to be asking for over the phone).

The problem is that from her perspective, things aren't making too much sense (or rather, it makes sense but not in the way you want). She did something you made clear to her was insulting, demanded that she apologize, and she refused. Compliance = 0. Now she texts you good morning and within a short time you're inviting her over, something which she did absolutely nothing to deserve, especially after completely dismissing your previous demand. What this has created is a chasey, reactive vibe from you, because you are hot and cold and then hot again when she didn't even do what you wanted. This is why she's using commanding phrases like 'drop it' and 'seriously', she feels in control.

Normally, I would say that leaving the ball in her court like you did at the end of the morning texting would be good if the rapport was strong but she was playing up. But in reality rapport is shot and needs to be rebuilt, which requires some investing on your part, and instead you are effectively asking for compliance again. So there is very little driving her to make any more moves.

Tbh what I would do is just say something like 'hey I feel like we got off on the wrong foot, I really enjoyed our conversation, let's grab a drink sometime'. Imply that you know you messed up (which she already knows) but in the frame of a rapport-building compliment and an invitation rather than any sort of apology. Then when you get her out, rebuild the chemistry, escalate and stay unreactive to any shit tests.

Otherwise you'll likely end up in a war of attrition which she has no reason to even participate in, which perhaps you were responsible for starting in the first place.

That's my view anyway, interested to know what others think as well.

 

[Darius]

@Will_V thanks a lot for the insight. This is a situation that I have actually found myself in with a lot of girls - her feeling in control. Normally I just lose interest and move on at this stage but I'm really curious on your approach of building rapport and a date, I will try it!

I saw Chase's article on arousal vs similarity tending guys, and I'm definitely more on the arousal side. If I don't get a quick lay with a girl I have a really hard time regressing and pulling it off later.

Now she texts you good morning and within a short time you're inviting her over, something which she did absolutely nothing to deserve, especially after completely dismissing your previous demand

Could you explain this part a bit more? As I saw it, her coming over to my place is effort on her side, not mine. It seems like you are framing her compliance as something she "deserves" here, not something she offers. Normally we see compliance as something the girl does for us, not something she earns. I have seen this paradox in multiple places, not sure how to make sense of it.

What this has created is a chasey, reactive vibe from you, because you are hot and cold and then hot again when she didn't even do what you wanted. This is why she's using commanding phrases like 'drop it' and 'seriously', she feels in control

Also, isn't rapport building more investment on my side? Wouldn't that give her even more control, and an even more chasey vibe? My perspective in these sorts of situations is "well she won't comply, why should I invest into her more?" I guess it's not the best frame to have in this situation, it definitely has not been working.

 

[topcat]

Also, isn't rapport building more investment on my side? Wouldn't that give her even more control, and an even more chasey vibe? My perspective in these sorts of situations is "well she won't comply, why should I invest into her more?" I guess it's not the best frame to have in this situation, it definitely has not been working.

No, no.

When rapport building is done right it gets investment from her. You ask probing questions about herself, and she invests by divesting private things about herself, her mind, her private inner world. Things she usually would not share with a stranger.

Building rapport also provides trust and comfort. Meaning when you ask for more compliance down the line it becomes easier for her to give, as trust and familiarity have been built.

Look into the articles on deep diving. Counter intuitvely, it is people's investment in you that makes them feel close to you and not the other way around.

 

[Will_V]

Could you explain this part a bit more? As I saw it, her coming over to my place is effort on her side, not mine. It seems like you are framing her compliance as something she "deserves" here, not something she offers. Normally we see compliance as something the girl does for us, not something she earns. I have seen this paradox in multiple places, not sure how to make sense of it.

The way I see it, there are two different forces at work in a girl's mind.

The first one is the fear of a potential negative situation. Especially having a bad experience, taking damage to her reputation, ending up feeling used, or worse etc. When you ask her to take a step in the direction of the bedroom, you are attempting to get her to overcome this fear.

The second one is her wanting something from/with you. This is what happens when she sees you as attractive, when you successfully arouse her, when she imagines that being with you would be exciting, fulfilling, satisfying, validating, fun, orgasmically good.

Now obviously, one of them is a negative thing, and one of them is a positive thing. Therefore, the first requires investment from you to help her overcome (in the form of rapport, reassurance, comfort), the second requires her investment to earn (mainly in the form of compliance to you leading her, also in the form of submitting to your frame when you tease or pressure her).

The problem is when a guy doesn't successfully differentiate these two in the way he reacts to her - or rather, when he does not correctly identify whether it is too much of the fear that is the problem, or not enough attraction.

...

Now lets look at the situation in these terms:

She had a very engaged conversation with you lasting ages, chased you around the party, texted you random stuff during the night, and even texted you good morning. Generally, she is being very compliant, which shows attraction. Most guys hardly get any of this.

Now you ask her to come home with you. She gives you a test by revealing her fear (maybe in a slightly rude way, but still, you had to recognize 'this girl wants to know if she can trust me'). This is when you needed to offer some comfort and reassurance, give her plausible deniability, use some deflating humor etc. And also to show that you don't get rattled easily, because you are confident and trustworthy. You can handle her. Instead, you reacted, took it as her behaving badly and demanded an apology.

Now the reason why she didn't want to apologize to you is because she revealed to you her fear as a woman (having a bad experience with an untrustworthy guy), and you didn't take it and accept it and validate it. This left her a bit cold, in her mind being rude is nothing compared to her need to feel safe.

...

Now let's look at the morning. You made the same mistake - by asking her to come over, you ran smack bang into her fear again, and again did not deal with it - only this time it's over text, which is a lot easier to come off cold or wrong tone. So you demanded a lot of investment (her confronting her fear) while simultaneously coming off as the chaser (by implicitly accepting her refusal to apologize, without re-framing the situation) which reduced her attraction to you and therefore her investment, because now your time is something she can easily come by if she wants to, without even having to behave.

Also, isn't rapport building more investment on my side? Wouldn't that give her even more control, and an even more chasey vibe? My perspective in these sorts of situations is "well she won't comply, why should I invest into her more?" I guess it's not the best frame to have in this situation, it definitely has not been working.

When you get into a sticky situation with women, where you mess up and box yourself in, reframing is your friend.

By reframing, neither of you 'loses'. When you say "I feel like we got off on the wrong foot" you just airily blame the universe for not conspiring to produce good vibes, too bad, we can deal with that right? Let's start again, have another great conversation and remember why we like eachother so much!

The thing is, she knows deep down you messed up, you know you messed up, she knows you know you messed up and that's why you're reframing. Who cares? The point is that you were familiar enough with her world to recognize the problem, fixed it without any resentment, and recast your iron frame (decorated with an olive branch) with something she can readily agree to and start being a good compliant girl again. This is the beginning of building rapport again.

Remember a girl is a submissive, a follower, building rapport with her is not done simply by either giving or demanding, but presenting the right hoops to jump through at the right time, with the right reward on the other side, so that she feels like jumping though hoops for you is neither too easy nor too hard, but exciting and satisfying.

 

[Skjöldr]

I tell her that it's a bit hurtful she said that but I understand. She says we can still talk. I say I'm not interested in talking with someone who doesn't trust me, and I encourage her to find someone else she can have distrustful conversations with. I leave.

She chases me HARD. Legit around the party, whatever group I'm in, she's finding a way to come closer.

That wasn't really a bad way of dealing with it. However when she started chasing you, you had her. Now you just had to tease her and do some push pull "You know i feel like you keep following me around, but it's cool, because you are actually pretty cute". I never get butthurt with girls anymore if anything i just burn out with a girl if she keeps giving me resistance and i go find another girl, but to me this was her first attempt at resisting you. So yeah, i literally take nothing women says serious so if she said some bullshit like that to my face i would probably just laugh my ass off and treat her like a silly little girl because that's what they all are tbh. Women hate it when you take them serious. They know what they are saying or doing is complete nonsense and their vaginas turn into a desert when you pick up their nonsense and bat it around as if it has some kind of meaning.

 

[Darius]

thank you very much for all the tips gents. Everything makes a lot more sense now. I'm really looking forward to applying these tips (and I need to brush up on my rapport building indeed!).

I must admit, I was previously feeling very resentful for girls who wouldn't put up at first but then started to chase me (in general) and I'd get butthurt and lose interest quick. Now I understand that rapport building does not just mean investment on my side, and that her fears of being with me must also be addressed. So she was just reacting and letting me know what she needed to go to bed with me.

I caught the girl online on whatsapp and texted her again but she stopped responding, I think she just lost interest. I'll just chalk it up to a lesson well learnt.

Me: hey
Her: hey

Me: I just wanted to say I feel like we got off on the wrong foot. You're kinda cool and I liked talking with you
Her: Oh don't be like that lmao

Me: No no, it's true. We should go for a drink sometime, my treat.
Her: okok

Me: cool! so when are you free?
*no response*

The vibe kinda went form a teasey, jokey vibe to a more serious one, so I think that's why she lost interest, lack of congruence. Looking back, I could have woven in a tease or two but oh well. It's still way further than I would have taken it normally, and I got a good lesson out of it.

 

[Will_V]

thank you very much for all the tips gents. Everything makes a lot more sense now. I'm really looking forward to applying these tips (and I need to brush up on my rapport building indeed!).

I must admit, I was previously feeling very resentful for girls who wouldn't put up at first but then started to chase me (in general) and I'd get butthurt and lose interest quick. Now I understand that rapport building does not just mean investment on my side, and that her fears of being with me must also be addressed. So she was just reacting and letting me know what she needed to go to bed with me.

I caught the girl online on whatsapp and texted her again but she stopped responding, I think she just lost interest. I'll just chalk it up to a lesson well learnt.



The vibe kinda went form a teasey, jokey vibe to a more serious one, so I think that's why she lost interest, lack of congruence. Looking back, I could have woven in a tease or two but oh well. It's still way further than I would have taken it normally, and I got a good lesson out of it.

I agree, seems like she was a bit disappointed that the 'game' was over. Maybe in hindsight could have teased her a bit to keep her excitement up.

I'm not the best at bantering over the phone but maybe after she said 'don't be like that lmao' go 'yeah I feel like you're direct rather than just cheeky, I'll give you a pass this time' - it's somewhat of an honest comment about her and girls always like to hear about themselves.

That would also show that you aren't just forgetting what happened, but putting it behind, and teasing her a bit in the meantime.

PS also going straight for the date maybe was too much, some rapport over the phone might be better.

 

[Bismarck]

I just want to say you've been giving great advice on this thread Will_V, some real gems!

Personally, due to being used to getting pussy on a platter (after exchanging max. half a dozen SMS over WA, which was my MO for about half the total chocha I've smashed (tourists who'd been on my tours)) I have little patience for longwinded SMS exchanges, and lose girls to going for "let's get drinks" too soon - but I couldn't care less!

I don't use SMS to give girls attention. I won't add myself to the pile of guys liking their IG, Facebook, Telegram, WhatsApp, Twitter, LinkedIn, etc. posts. I refuse to join their ranks. If she wanted me to blow up her phone with emojis and bullshit, she got the wrong guy's number!

 

[Will_V]

I don't use SMS to give girls attention. I won't add myself to the pile of guys liking their IG, Facebook, Telegram, WhatsApp, Twitter, LinkedIn, etc. posts. I refuse to join their ranks. If she wanted me to blow up her phone with emojis and bullshit, she got the wrong guy's number!

Yeah if the logistics aren't getting set up on the phone I treat it as probably a lost cause. I'll do a hail mary if she stops responding, because why not, I usually just go for broke with something very playful. But I don't consider anything besides the face to face interaction to be particularly important in terms of influencing her.

I'm probably not very good at text though, I've never been on a dating app so there are probably guys who know how to control tone and perception in messages much better. But in the end, I don't enjoy messaging at all, there's not even a good view to look at, it's always a distraction from something I'm doing and I very much dislike being distracted.

 

[Darius]

Personally, due to being used to getting pussy on a platter (after exchanging max. half a dozen SMS over WA, which was my MO for about half the total chocha I've smashed (tourists who'd been on my tours)) I have little patience for longwinded SMS exchanges, and lose girls to going for "let's get drinks" too soon - but I couldn't care less!

I'm probably not very good at text though, I've never been on a dating app so there are probably guys who know how to control tone and perception in messages much better. But in the end, I don't enjoy messaging at all, there's not even a good view to look at, it's always a distraction from something I'm doing and I very much dislike being distracted.

same here! I suck at texting (as you can see) and especially in this case I kinda did it more to see how she'd react. After all the bad precedent we set I really was not interested that much in continuing with her. I just did it more as a (half-assed on my end( attempt to build rapport and "apologise" in a sense. (as per @Will_V's tip )

BUT, she texted me back and we had a call on the phone. I focused a lot more on rapport building and she was much much happier. I'll meet her this weekend. I even did some sex talk and jokes and she played along with it and was giggling.

Sound like more rapport was just what the doctor ordered! Thanks again guys

 

[Lil kevo]

Couple mistakes
1,No rapport
2.No persistence
3.Getting her number u only get the number if shes with friends,logistics don't check out or shes got an emergency to leave
4.Bringing back your old interaction should have left that behind and wait for her to bring it out.

 

[Lil kevo]

The way I see it, there are two different forces at work in a girl's mind.

The first one is the fear of a potential negative situation. Especially having a bad experience, taking damage to her reputation, ending up feeling used, or worse etc. When you ask her to take a step in the direction of the bedroom, you are attempting to get her to overcome this fear.

The second one is her wanting something from/with you. This is what happens when she sees you as attractive, when you successfully arouse her, when she imagines that being with you would be exciting, fulfilling, satisfying, validating, fun, orgasmically good.

Now obviously, one of them is a negative thing, and one of them is a positive thing. Therefore, the first requires investment from you to help her overcome (in the form of rapport, reassurance, comfort), the second requires her investment to earn (mainly in the form of compliance to you leading her, also in the form of submitting to your frame when you tease or pressure her).

The problem is when a guy doesn't successfully differentiate these two in the way he reacts to her - or rather, when he does not correctly identify whether it is too much of the fear that is the problem, or not enough attraction.

...

Now lets look at the situation in these terms:

She had a very engaged conversation with you lasting ages, chased you around the party, texted you random stuff during the night, and even texted you good morning. Generally, she is being very compliant, which shows attraction. Most guys hardly get any of this.

Now you ask her to come home with you. She gives you a test by revealing her fear (maybe in a slightly rude way, but still, you had to recognize 'this girl wants to know if she can trust me'). This is when you needed to offer some comfort and reassurance, give her plausible deniability, use some deflating humor etc. And also to show that you don't get rattled easily, because you are confident and trustworthy. You can handle her. Instead, you reacted, took it as her behaving badly and demanded an apology.

Now the reason why she didn't want to apologize to you is because she revealed to you her fear as a woman (having a bad experience with an untrustworthy guy), and you didn't take it and accept it and validate it. This left her a bit cold, in her mind being rude is nothing compared to her need to feel safe.

...

Now let's look at the morning. You made the same mistake - by asking her to come over, you ran smack bang into her fear again, and again did not deal with it - only this time it's over text, which is a lot easier to come off cold or wrong tone. So you demanded a lot of investment (her confronting her fear) while simultaneously coming off as the chaser (by implicitly accepting her refusal to apologize, without re-framing the situation) which reduced her attraction to you and therefore her investment, because now your time is something she can easily come by if she wants to, without even having to behave.



When you get into a sticky situation with women, where you mess up and box yourself in, reframing is your friend.

By reframing, neither of you 'loses'. When you say "I feel like we got off on the wrong foot" you just airily blame the universe for not conspiring to produce good vibes, too bad, we can deal with that right? Let's start again, have another great conversation and remember why we like eachother so much!

The thing is, she knows deep down you messed up, you know you messed up, she knows you know you messed up and that's why you're reframing. Who cares? The point is that you were familiar enough with her world to recognize the problem, fixed it without any resentment, and recast your iron frame (decorated with an olive branch) with something she can readily agree to and start being a good compliant girl again. This is the beginning of building rapport again.

Remember a girl is a submissive, a follower, building rapport with her is not done simply by either giving or demanding, but presenting the right hoops to jump through at the right time, with the right reward on the other side, so that she feels like jumping though hoops for you is neither too easy nor too hard, but exciting and satisfying.

Yo thanks for the message u were literally speaking to my mind its the same kinda mistake I've made over the years bless up

 

[Lil kevo]

thank you very much for all the tips gents. Everything makes a lot more sense now. I'm really looking forward to applying these tips (and I need to brush up on my rapport building indeed!).

I must admit, I was previously feeling very resentful for girls who wouldn't put up at first but then started to chase me (in general) and I'd get butthurt and lose interest quick. Now I understand that rapport building does not just mean investment on my side, and that her fears of being with me must also be addressed. So she was just reacting and letting me know what she needed to go to bed with me.

I caught the girl online on whatsapp and texted her again but she stopped responding, I think she just lost interest. I'll just chalk it up to a lesson well learnt.



The vibe kinda went form a teasey, jokey vibe to a more serious one, so I think that's why she lost interest, lack of congruence. Looking back, I could have woven in a tease or two but oh well. It's still way further than I would have taken it normally, and I got a good lesson out of it.

u kinda messed up here dont be like that she had started a teasey vibe u had to continue playing with it u went too fast too serious to
the invitation u only ask a
gal out when her bp is high

 

[DownEarth]

She LEGIT looks me dead in the eyes and says "I don't trust you". I look at her kind of dumbfounded, didn't say anything. She goes "It's a girl thing".

Then I see this: "She chases me HARD. Legit around the party, whatever group I'm in, she's finding a way to come closer. At the end after I leave she texts me some totally random bs - "Halloween is so nice. The autumn leaves are pretty".

Games. There are obviously ways to win a girl like this over..... maybe it's a lot, maybe it's a little. I do not know.

If a woman is going to be doing stuff like this, in my opinion, she's not worth it. You deserve better!!