FR "I have never been charmed by another man this way"

[Sam]

Greetings, gentlemen.

Last Thursday, I went on a date with a new girl whom I cold approached at a bar without even leaving my seat.

Background:

I was sitting at the bar, I lightly pre-opened her with a touch on her elbow and without saying a word I moved my head signaling her to come closer, which she absolutely did. I held a 10-minute conversation before I get her to agree for a date with me and then give me her number. During my interaction with her I used abundantly pregnant pauses and intense eyes staring to which she commented: "Your gaze penetrates me"

The date:

It felt idyllic to me. Very strong emotional connection seemed to be present between us. I took her to a an atmospheric lounge bar and we had two drinks and stayed for two hours. During this time she would:

- React enthusiastically to everything I had to say or respond (Her: I truly believe you have a great answer for anything!)
- Say things such as "I love the way you use words!", "I love to hear you talk!", "I learn so much from you, but I have so little to teach you!", "Your gaze is so strong, I feel you see through my brain!"
- Touch me whenever she agreed with me
- Comply with my touching her hand
- Comply with my command to come closer and let me smell her neck
- Comply with my command to stretch her leg towards me to supposedly inspect her sexy boots

And later in my car when I took her to her place (my logistics are bad, I live 30 minutes away from city centre and I didn't think I could pull her on first date):

- I switch off the engine and go for the kiss. She resists, but stays in my car, while she doesn't resist holding hands
- She tells me she had a 5-year relationship and she is not looking to move on to something new
- I withdraw my touch. She complains that she wants it back.
- I caress her hair, massage the base of her scull, touch her leg for the next 10 minutes
- She finally complies to kissing
- She says I am the most charming man she has ever met. I tell her I am not good in playing social roles in women's lives, but if she feels she can't move on sexually with me, I am glad to have met her.
- She says: "So, we can't go out again otherwise?". I say: "Who knows...and I signal her goodnight"
- She hesitantly open the door and left

Three days later, last Sunday:

- I call her. She doesn't pick up the phone. 4 hours later I see her approaching me, as I was having coffee with a male and female friend at a cafeteria. She was in the same place. She saw me from afar. I didn't see her and she walked all the way to me to just greet me.

- I greeted her with pleasant surprise and I told her I called her earlier to which she replied "Yes...I saw your call much later and I omitted to return it", I said "It's ok, no problem" and I cut the conversation with a smile waiting for her to leave back to her place.

- Yesterday, Tuesday, again I call her. No reply.

Guys, what is your take?
Did I overprovide good feelings to her?
Was I an overkill in terms of value and she auto-rejected?
Did I mistakenly project myself as "the ideal man" and she auto-rejected?
Do you think there is any point to try to get her on a second date?

 

[ocantu1987]

Did you try texting?

I think when you said " I tell her I am not good in playing social roles in women's lives, but if she feels she can't move on sexually with me, I am glad to have met her. " that was a mistake IMO.

Don't get to obsessed with banging a chick the first night, it is not required. Last girl I was with made out with me in my car, but refused to go home with me but I was a gentleman about it a few days later I got laid lol

 

[Casanovelis]

I think that the wrong approach was offering an ultimatum with the word sex in it.

I find that a better approach is if you are hitting it off and she is throwing you into boyfriend/provider category is to act like you are going to friend zone her.

 

[Intimidator]

Did you set a sexual tone during the date? It sounds like she was thinking of you as relationship material / provider based off her comment about not being ready for something new. She was clearly attracted to you, so I think you probably could have bedded her by framing yourself as a lover.

Did you talk about sex during the conversation at the lounge? Not everyone may agree with this approach, but I like to get a girl talking about some sort of positive prior sexual experience she has had and then get pretty blunt with my questions. I try to give off the vibe that I think that type of fun should be celebrated. Once she's on a high note about something adventurous or fun she's done, I'll look her dead in the eye with a straight face and say "So, when's the last time you got laid?" and then smile mischievously. If the answer is anything more than a week, I'll usually joke around and say "That's too bad, you must be horny. Is that why you're trying to lure me into bed with you?" They usually ask me the same question in return, but I never give a straight answer since it's usually within a couple days. I'll say something like "It's been way too long for me; I'm actually still a virgin" with a smirk. Doing this gives a girl the impression that you get laid a lot but that you don't need to talk about it (secrecy is important).

Anyway, that's just one example of the sexual direction you could take a conversation. There are infinite other ways, but I think framing yourself as more of a lover would have helped a lot with this girl.

 

[Intimidator]

I think that the wrong approach was offering an ultimatum with the word sex in it.

I find that a better approach is if you are hitting it off and she is throwing you into boyfriend/provider category is to act like you are going to friend zone her.

I've never thought of that, but I actually like the idea. What approach do you take to implying you're going to friend zone her? Do you go direct and say "that's cool, we'll just be friends"?

 

[Casanovelis]

Well I try to throw it out there as subtle as possible where it could really go either way. I don't want to auto-reject her so I may say something along the lines of "I may be getting a friend vibe here, I am not really sure." If she likes you she knows that the only way to keep herself from getting friend zoned is to speed things up as opposed to slowing them down which is naturally a woman's tactic if you are being put into the boyfriend/provider category. She probably will still think of you as boyfriend material but that may cause her to physically escalate to save herself. On the other hand I have told one before that I absolutely did not want a relationship and she replied "that is alright I understand we can still hook up though." I have read a post on here where a guy say "Well maybe we should just be friends" and completely turned things around and bedded her right there which is where I picked up on the idea.

 

[girlsfollow]

for sure you put on too much pressure with that ultimatum..

 

[Sam]

Guys, thanks for your input.

I think I will use the rule of "3" in this case; I already made 2 calls after our first date with three days time gap between each of them. So, I will do a third effort this time by text next week.

How do you comment the fact that she came to greet me last Sunday, in spite of the fact that she did not return my call earlier during the same day? I mean, if she wanted to avoid me altogether or if she was so heavily auto-rejected, she would just sit on her ass. Any thoughts?

 

[girlsfollow]

Guys, thanks for your input.

I think I will use the rule of "3" in this case; I already made 2 calls after our first date with three days time gap between each of them. So, I will do a third effort this time by text next week.

How do you comment the fact that she came to greet me last Sunday, in spite of the fact that she did not return my call earlier during the same day? I mean, if she wanted to avoid me altogether or if she was so heavily auto-rejected, she would just sit on her ass. Any thoughts?

She saw you and clearly was attracted to you so just wanted to say hi. But she doesnt want to organise a date cause she thinks youll pressure her for sex - also calling her 3 times doesnt really fit with the image you were putting across when you said that ultimatum - it was a very cool take it or leave it - you now calling her makes it seem like you are going back on what you said - she cant trust what you say

 

[Sam]

My "ultimatum" didn't mean that I would not try to contact her ever again. I would call her, but simply on my terms. She says one thing ("I am not ready for something new") and I want to get past this by doing my thing. Sort of persistence, I don't take what she said seriously in a way. This is the vibe I want to pass through

 

[girlsfollow]

My "ultimatum" didn't mean that I would not try to contact her ever again. I would call her, but simply on my terms. She says one thing ("I am not ready for something new") and I want to get past this by doing my thing. Sort of persistence, I don't take what she said seriously in a way. This is the vibe I want to pass through

Well actually if you just look at this one exchange:

"I say: if she feels she can't move on sexually with me,I am glad to have met her.
- She says: "So, we can't go out again otherwise?". I say: "Who knows...and I signal her goodnight"

Suggests you are basically saying you dont want to see her if she wont have sex with you- and even if you didnt mean it like this - this is how she took it CLEARLY. You then basically kick her out your car? THAT suggests that actually its pretty final you made it pretty clear - no more phone calls should be necessary...

That can really hurt a girls feelings I think - in her view this is you basically saying you just wanted her for sex and were willing to kick her out for not putting out. I know you didnt mean it that way and I'm sorry to sound harsh but thats how it comes across to me and probably came across to her.

All you can do is Give her some space and then try and suggest a low pressure meetup and keep this in mind. I also like to friend zone girls but it can be tough to use sometimes - i think you need to use it in a teasing way

 

[Sam]

You are right GF.

YoU see I have this sticking point where I cannot combine fast escalation with smoothness; at the moment, either I will act fast, albeit unsmoothly, or I will go to more than two dates before I close. If I am not mistaken, you have written posts with similar problems of your own(i.e. being fast, but also smooth without violating the Law of Least Effort and without being outcome-dependent)

Update: two hours ago I texted her exactly what you proposed: a low-level, chill out proposal at a public place. If she doesn't reply, I will just move on to other options

 

[Nova]

I switch off the engine and go for the kiss. She resists, but stays in my car, while she doesn't resist holding hands
- She tells me she had a 5-year relationship and she is not looking to move on to something new
- I withdraw my touch. She complains that she wants it back.

this should tell you something. so she doesn't want a new relationship, doesn't mean she doesnt want to fuck you. you had a great chance i feel with this girl to have sex with her on the night. i would have persisted more and invited her back into my apartment.