LR-- "I only fuck for money or in a relationship"

[Jan]

APPROACH

I approached a cute, sexy 22 years old in a shopping centre. She already finished her shopping and was on her way to the underground parking. I caught her on the moving stairs, told her that I saw her walking, found her beautiful and just wanted to say hi.

INSTADATE

Pretty much immediately I invited her for coffee. It felt like a good move because we were in the middle of the stairs, it wasn't a comfortable place to chat for neither of us. However, she didn't want to go to cafe in the mall. I realised that this can be a bit of a logistics problem because she came to the mall by car. For that reason I talked a bit about the place we will be heading to, just to build a bit of comfort before I was to propose that we use her car and drive there.

Well, from current perspective (what I know about her now), I was kind of lucky with the car. I guess most of the women wouldn't let me go into her car after 3 minutes of conversation. But it worked. She asked me for my phone number in the car. She has this application where you enter a phone number of a guy and it's checking if some other women reported this number as a dangerous one.

I played cool and relaxed in the car. I was vibing: "We are friends and just casually driving the car to the bar." In the car I made a mistake thought, I touched her hand in too overtly sexual way. She said 'don't touch me' and moved her hand away. I took me some time to recover.

We drove to the bar place, I helped her with the parking ticket (continue building comfort, normal-guy vibe).

In the bar we spent about 30-45 minutes. We had a really good conversation. I would say a deep diving type. She is 22, got her driving licence 2 weeks ago, and drove 1000 miles to get to my town, wow I thought that was brave on her side. She told me about her studies, about her family, relationship, etc. I qualified her on her beauty, smart and courage.

I felt that the conversation was going well. I also realized that she started to bite her lips several times when looking at me. It was a first sign of arousal I saw. Is that correct? I'm actually learning to read signals better. How should I interpret her lips biting in this situation?

Unfortunately, the date ended abruptly because her father called her that her cat died She got sad and run away from the venue. Luckily, she was conscious enough to offer me her phone number before leaving. I took the number and started sending her texts immediately, trying to console her. Over texts she told me that she is very sad, crying all the time and doesn't want anyone to see her. I said no problem and offered myself in case she needed anything.

In the evening I texted her that I found sleeping bag which she needed for her travelling, and that we can meet next day after my work. She agreed. Cool.

SECOND DATE

Next day, we texted a little bit back and forth. But when it came to setting up the meeting, she texted me that she already bought the sleeping bag herself. I offered to meet for food instead. She was ok with this idea, but she was very picky about the place, I proposed 3 and 4 different places and she was complaining about each of them. One of the objections was that she didn't want to in a venue with many people because she didn't want other people to look at her when she was sad. Finally, I made a risky move and I said, in this case I invite you to my place and I will cook for you. Instead of texting me back, this time she sent me a voice message saying something like: "I know why you are inviting me home. I know what you want. You want to fuck me. I only fuck for money and in a relationship."

Truly speaking, this voice message shocked me a little bit. I didn't expect it. I didn't know what to reply, so I didn't reply at all. Instead, I was thinking to myself that nothing is gonna happen with this girl. Basically, she was in town only for one or two more days, and I was feeling that if I don't meet her tonight, I won't meet her at all. Setting up the date felt like a challenge, basically her saying no 3 or 4 times.

PULLING

I gave up and started walking home. Then she texted me: "Am I not right?" Referring to her previous voice message.

I replied: "Listen, I'm going home. I live about 15 minutes away. I'm inviting you for dinner and movies. I'm not gonna do anything you don't wanna do. If you don't want to come, it's fine."

It seems she baited because she started saying her objections. She objected that she can't trust me because I approached her in the mall, etc. and that I want to fuck her. I overcame these objections by playing a platonic interest guy. Basically, I told her very directly that I will not try to fuck her.

Basically, it worked.

She came to my apartment around 9pm.

ESCALATION

When she came to my apartment I was very casual. Just moving around my apartment and letting her to settle in emotionally. Then we watched a movie together, and it was only that time when I started physically escalate. I was practicing fractionation - going back and forth between escalating physically and commenting on the movie. Escalation was almost without resistance. I believe this is because I was doing this pretty skillfully. Slow steps method + slow and considerate pace + fractionation. I was struggling a little bit to make her remove her trousers. But finally she removed her trousers and I had her naked in my bed.

Unfortunately, at that point I got little too drunk (we were drinking gin together) and I fucked up. We were in bed together, touching each other, I think let me touch her pussy but she was hesistant to even play with my cock. When I took her hand and put it on my cock, she would take it away. And most importantly, she didn't want to fuck. She wanted go to sleep.

I'm not exactly sure what was the problem, but I think it was a problem with my escalation method. Somehow I didn't let her feel my erection. We were sitting next to each other on the sofa, and I was escalating on her side ways, so my cock somehow isolated from her. Usually after some sideways escalation, and I take her hand and lead her to sit on laps. This way I can kiss her and her tits, and thrust her with our clothes still on. But with this chick, it didn't work out. She didn't want to sit on my laps.

LAST MINUTE RESISTANCE

The worst mistake I made at the very end. She was naked in my bed, letting me give her pleasure, but she didn't want to reciprocate. It made me angry and I asked her to leave. Fuck, it was so stupid. I know that I should have just be more perseverant, let her sleep, fractionate more, and try again later, in the night or in the morning. Either way, she left the apartment angry.

LESSONS

The biggest lesson for me is to persist more. Persistance for me is staying on course regardless of the emotional pain. It was a great lesson. It actually changed my optics on pain and suffering. No pain no gain.

Btw, I learned during our evening conversation that she was a ho. She told me that she has 'too much sexual experience' and she admitted that worked as a prostitute. Do you guys think this fact changes anything how I should view that whole seduction?

 

[topcat]

APPROACH

I approached a cute, sexy 22 years old in a shopping centre. She already finished her shopping and was on her way to the underground parking. I caught her on the moving stairs, told her that I saw her walking, found her beautiful and just wanted to say hi.

INSTADATE

Pretty much immediately I invited her for coffee. It felt like a good move because we were in the middle of the stairs, it wasn't a comfortable place to chat for neither of us. However, she didn't want to go to cafe in the mall. I realised that this can be a bit of a logistics problem because she came to the mall by car. For that reason I talked a bit about the place we will be heading to, just to build a bit of comfort before I was to propose that we use her car and drive there.

Well, from current perspective (what I know about her now), I was kind of lucky with the car. I guess most of the women wouldn't let me go into her car after 3 minutes of conversation. But it worked. She asked me for my phone number in the car. She has this application where you enter a phone number of a guy and it's checking if some other women reported this number as a dangerous one.

I played cool and relaxed in the car. I was vibing: "We are friends and just casually driving the car to the bar." In the car I made a mistake thought, I touched her hand in too overtly sexual way. She said 'don't touch me' and moved her hand away. I took me some time to recover.

We drove to the bar place, I helped her with the parking ticket (continue building comfort, normal-guy vibe).

In the bar we spent about 30-45 minutes. We had a really good conversation. I would say a deep diving type. She is 22, got her driving licence 2 weeks ago, and drove 1000 miles to get to my town, wow I thought that was brave on her side. She told me about her studies, about her family, relationship, etc. I qualified her on her beauty, smart and courage.

I felt that the conversation was going well. I also realized that she started to bite her lips several times when looking at me. It was a first sign of arousal I saw. Is that correct? I'm actually learning to read signals better. How should I interpret her lips biting in this situation?

Unfortunately, the date ended abruptly because her father called her that her cat died She got sad and run away from the venue. Luckily, she was conscious enough to offer me her phone number before leaving. I took the number and started sending her texts immediately, trying to console her. Over texts she told me that she is very sad, crying all the time and doesn't want anyone to see her. I said no problem and offered myself in case she needed anything.

In the evening I texted her that I found sleeping bag which she needed for her travelling, and that we can meet next day after my work. She agreed. Cool.

SECOND DATE

Next day, we texted a little bit back and forth. But when it came to setting up the meeting, she texted me that she already bought the sleeping bag herself. I offered to meet for food instead. She was ok with this idea, but she was very picky about the place, I proposed 3 and 4 different places and she was complaining about each of them. One of the objections was that she didn't want to in a venue with many people because she didn't want other people to look at her when she was sad. Finally, I made a risky move and I said, in this case I invite you to my place and I will cook for you. Instead of texting me back, this time she sent me a voice message saying something like: "I know why you are inviting me home. I know what you want. You want to fuck me. I only fuck for money and in a relationship."

Truly speaking, this voice message shocked me a little bit. I didn't expect it. I didn't know what to reply, so I didn't reply at all. Instead, I was thinking to myself that nothing is gonna happen with this girl. Basically, she was in town only for one or two more days, and I was feeling that if I don't meet her tonight, I won't meet her at all. Setting up the date felt like a challenge, basically her saying no 3 or 4 times.

PULLING

I gave up and started walking home. Then she texted me: "Am I not right?" Referring to her previous voice message.

I replied: "Listen, I'm going home. I live about 15 minutes away. I'm inviting you for dinner and movies. I'm not gonna do anything you don't wanna do. If you don't want to come, it's fine."

It seems she baited because she started saying her objections. She objected that she can't trust me because I approached her in the mall, etc. and that I want to fuck her. I overcame these objections by playing a platonic interest guy. Basically, I told her very directly that I will not try to fuck her.

Basically, it worked.

She came to my apartment around 9pm.

ESCALATION

When she came to my apartment I was very casual. Just moving around my apartment and letting her to settle in emotionally. Then we watched a movie together, and it was only that time when I started physically escalate. I was practicing fractionation - going back and forth between escalating physically and commenting on the movie. Escalation was almost without resistance. I believe this is because I was doing this pretty skillfully. Slow steps method + slow and considerate pace + fractionation. I was struggling a little bit to make her remove her trousers. But finally she removed her trousers and I had her naked in my bed.

Unfortunately, at that point I got little too drunk (we were drinking gin together) and I fucked up. We were in bed together, touching each other, I think let me touch her pussy but she was hesistant to even play with my cock. When I took her hand and put it on my cock, she would take it away. And most importantly, she didn't want to fuck. She wanted go to sleep.

I'm not exactly sure what was the problem, but I think it was a problem with my escalation method. Somehow I didn't let her feel my erection. We were sitting next to each other on the sofa, and I was escalating on her side ways, so my cock somehow isolated from her. Usually after some sideways escalation, and I take her hand and lead her to sit on laps. This way I can kiss her and her tits, and thrust her with our clothes still on. But with this chick, it didn't work out. She didn't want to sit on my laps.

LAST MINUTE RESISTANCE

The worst mistake I made at the very end. She was naked in my bed, letting me give her pleasure, but she didn't want to reciprocate. It made me angry and I asked her to leave. Fuck, it was so stupid. I know that I should have just be more perseverant, let her sleep, fractionate more, and try again later, in the night or in the morning. Either way, she left the apartment angry.

LESSONS

The biggest lesson for me is to persist more. Persistance for me is staying on course regardless of the emotional pain. It was a great lesson. It actually changed my optics on pain and suffering. No pain no gain.

Btw, I learned during our evening conversation that she was a ho. She told me that she has 'too much sexual experience' and she admitted that worked as a prostitute. Do you guys think this fact changes anything how I should view that whole seduction?

The gist i get from this is that you signalled “mark” behaviour to girl who uses marks for money and provision. This is a strong indicator that the moves you were making showed you weren’t a lover or sexy. You were moving too slow IMO, and not as decisively as the guys she usually fucks.

She fucks the sexy guys quickly and doesn’t ask them for money or a relationship, instead she hopes they’ll give her a relationship, or autorejects the hell out of there…

see this article

Lonely Low Value Men (in the Sexual Marketplace)

Low value men struggle to get any women at all. High value women ignore them. Low value women pursue high value men for flings. Why must this be so? Over the years a lot of guys have wandered onto Girls Chase claiming that attractive, non-slutty women are unicorns. These men say such women...

www.girlschase.com

Persisting and moving a lot faster is the way to go henceforth.

 

[Jan]

@topcat How can I move faster here? In which stage of interaction?

You are surely right about signalling 'mark' behavior, however I can't see how I could move faster here.

 

[Skills]

Butched escalation cost you the lay.... being drunk abd your dick no fully hard... next time massages are good relaxes them easy way to escalate when she is exited pull you dick out jerking off to her when fully hard is when you put the hands on your dick...

 

[Viper]

LAST MINUTE RESISTANCE

The worst mistake I made at the very end. She was naked in my bed, letting me give her pleasure, but she didn't want to reciprocate. It made me angry and I asked her to leave. Fuck, it was so stupid. I know that I should have just be more perseverant, let her sleep, fractionate more, and try again later, in the night or in the morning. Either way, she left the apartment angry.

Anger is never the solution,had a situation similar to yours got angry on last minute resistance, literally kicked her out of my apartment,in my opinion I think you didnt frame yourself completely as a lover,if you had done that could have been smooth sailing from there,but aside from all that you still got the girl naked,and she was allowing you to please her,what I would have done in my opinion,I would have played with her pussy, fingering it letting her get more horny simultaneously stroking my dick keeping it hard,the more she is enjoying and when I feel my dick hard enough,like a predator while still playing with the clit I would stick dick in,since pussy is wet will slide right in,then fuck her from there ,and after dick in her , everything becomes open from there the key is in staying calm in that situation, know what you want to achieve that day

 

[fog]

You faced an attraction issue which caused her "i only fuck in a relationship or for money" statement... She’ll fuck the high value guys fast. She’ll also fuck the lower value guys who she's not as attracted to...but only when they're providing for her.

I’d be curious to see what made her perceive you as a lower value guy to slot you into this category. Was it the pesky dead cat wildcard? Or was it the style of game you ran on her?

If it wasn’t the interruption then surely it was the way you gamed her as topcat mentioned. One thing I noticed is you ran connection style game (nice, safe guy!) on her, when it would have been worthwhile running arousal game on her.

 

[Bismarck]

I feel like if he hadn’t opened direct, he may not have had to backtrack like he did and do the whole “nice guy Eddie” number (“no, I don’t wanna smash…” giggity giggity giggity)

 

[Jan]

I’d be curious to see what made her perceive you as a lower value guy to slot you into this category. Was it the pesky dead cat wildcard? Or was it the style of game you ran on her?

It could have been my texting with her on day 2. It felt pretty needy when she was super picky about the restaurant choice, and I was in a negative compliance loop. Basically she said NO three or four times in a row. This statement came immediately after that.

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

Man you played this pretty well! Not a whole lot you did wrong, she threw some very weird curve balls but even your response to her text about "only fuck for money and LTR" was pretty good.

Except for one thing: I'd set a frame of "of course I want to fuck you" (this girl is like some rocket scientist level genius, like duh you used a direct opener on her... sheesh)... continued: "but we won't do anything we don't both really want to do"

She put sex on the table explicitly not you - you can go along with that while showing that you will still respect her boundaries.

This is better done in person than over text, which is I realize how things go now, whatsapp is a nightmare for a number of reasons (also last seen, read receipt, status updates)... we had it easier in the days of SMS.

The other main thing I picked up from this report - did you make her cum? Shouldn't ever make a girl cum before she puts out, as it can satiate (= kill) their desire.

 

[TomInHo]

It's simple really... you didn't have a strong dominant and sexual frame when you were in isolation

Well, from current perspective (what I know about her now), I was kind of lucky with the car. I guess most of the women wouldn't let me go into her car after 3 minutes of conversation. But it worked. She asked me for my phone number in the car. She has this application where you enter a phone number of a guy and it's checking if some other women reported this number as a dangerous one.

Not really a fan of your mindset here... You were lucky to get in her car??? what?

More like she was so charmed by you that she broke her rule and gave you a ride. Perception is everything at it can bleed into your subcomms

I played cool and relaxed in the car. I was vibing: "We are friends and just casually driving the car to the bar." In the car I made a mistake thought, I touched her hand in too overtly sexual way. She said 'don't touch me' and moved her hand away. I took me some time to recover

Hmmm this isn't good.

She's showing heavy resistance to your attempts to sexualize. Means at this point she's not really sold on you as a sexual option

We drove to the bar place, I helped her with the parking ticket (continue building comfort, normal-guy vibe).

In the bar we spent about 30-45 minutes. We had a really good conversation. I would say a deep diving type. She is 22, got her driving licence 2 weeks ago, and drove 1000 miles to get to my town, wow I thought that was brave on her side. She told me about her studies, about her family, relationship, etc. I qualified her on her beauty, smart and courage.

Why not qualify her on things that move the seduction further instead? Especially since the sexual frame was already lacking

Smart, beauty and courage is kinda implying wife material. A better approach would have been adventurous, passionate and a woman who goes after what she wants which should be your penis obviously

I felt that the conversation was going well. I also realized that she started to bite her lips several times when looking at me. It was a first sign of arousal I saw. Is that correct? I'm actually learning to read signals better. How should I interpret her lips biting in this situation?

Oh yeah... she was in the mood

Unfortunately, the date ended abruptly because her father called her that her cat died She got sad and run away from the venue. Luckily, she was conscious enough to offer me her phone number before leaving. I took the number and started sending her texts immediately, trying to console her. Over texts she told me that she is very sad, crying all the time and doesn't want anyone to see her. I said no problem and offered myself in case she needed anything.

In the evening I texted her that I found sleeping bag which she needed for her travelling, and that we can meet next day after my work. She agreed. Cool.

Sad that her cat died but you were coming off a little too accommodating here. Trying too hard to make her feel good. Overproviding good emotions and make yourself seem more and more like a low level BF

Because why do you care so much when you literally just met her and you haven't even had sex yet? Why are so ready to do so much for someone that hasn't done much for you?

SECOND DATE

Next day, we texted a little bit back and forth. But when it came to setting up the meeting, she texted me that she already bought the sleeping bag herself. I offered to meet for food instead. She was ok with this idea, but she was very picky about the place, I proposed 3 and 4 different places and she was complaining about each of them.

Ask yourself this... if she thought you were a high value sexy lover at this point would she be this demanding? You offer 4 places and she is still giving you a hard time?

You lost the meta frame here and you allowing her to boss you around is dropping your value fast.

One of the objections was that she didn't want to in a venue with many people because she didn't want other people to look at her when she was sad. Finally, I made a risky move and I said, in this case I invite you to my place and I will cook for you.

Jesus... she is giving resistance and then you go for even higher compliance? I mean why??

Instead of texting me back, this time she sent me a voice message saying something like: "I know why you are inviting me home. I know what you want. You want to fuck me. I only fuck for money and in a relationship."

Duh!! of course she will say this

She's literally treating you like crap but you keep chasing her. She knows she has leverage and that is why she was so bold to say something like this

Truly speaking, this voice message shocked me a little bit.

How are you shocked??? I'm not surprised one bit

I didn't expect it. I didn't know what to reply, so I didn't reply at all. Instead, I was thinking to myself that nothing is gonna happen with this girl. Basically, she was in town only for one or two more days, and I was feeling that if I don't meet her tonight, I won't meet her at all. Setting up the date felt like a challenge, basically her saying no 3 or 4 times.

PULLING

I gave up and started walking home. Then she texted me: "Am I not right?" Referring to her previous voice message.

Aha... you learned something

Notice how when you finally stopped chasing and punished her for bad behavior she started coming towards you. She was testing your strength the entire time

I replied: "Listen, I'm going home. I live about 15 minutes away. I'm inviting you for dinner and movies. I'm not gonna do anything you don't wanna do. If you don't want to come, it's fine."

Not bad

It seems she baited because she started saying her objections. She objected that she can't trust me because I approached her in the mall, etc. and that I want to fuck her. I overcame these objections by playing a platonic interest guy. Basically, I told her very directly that I will not try to fuck her.

I don't think telling her you don't want to fuck was a good idea. It's not helping your frame at all G. I think a better way would have been to be direct in womanese

"Don't get me wrong, sex is amazing but I'm not that easy. I need to feel chemistry and connection to really enjoy it. But let's just focus first on enjoying some good food and a movie without all this pressure of expectations"

So with something like that you don't take sex off the table but show you have standards that she needs to live up to before she gets the pleasure of experiencing your dick

ESCALATION

When she came to my apartment I was very casual. Just moving around my apartment and letting her to settle in emotionally. Then we watched a movie together, and it was only that time when I started physically escalate. I was practicing fractionation - going back and forth between escalating physically and commenting on the movie. Escalation was almost without resistance. I believe this is because I was doing this pretty skillfully. Slow steps method + slow and considerate pace + fractionation. I was struggling a little bit to make her remove her trousers. But finally she removed her trousers and I had her naked in my bed.

Unfortunately, at that point I got little too drunk (we were drinking gin together) and I fucked up. We were in bed together, touching each other, I think let me touch her pussy but she was hesistant to even play with my cock. When I took her hand and put it on my cock, she would take it away. And most importantly, she didn't want to fuck. She wanted go to sleep.

I'm not exactly sure what was the problem, but I think it was a problem with my escalation method. Somehow I didn't let her feel my erection. We were sitting next to each other on the sofa, and I was escalating on her side ways, so my cock somehow isolated from her. Usually after some sideways escalation, and I take her hand and lead her to sit on laps. This way I can kiss her and her tits, and thrust her with our clothes still on. But with this chick, it didn't work out. She didn't want to sit on my laps.

Your escalation didn't work because the frames you set prior were very poor. You didn't present yourself like a sexual guy so she is acting congruent to how you presented yourself earlier

Remember.. you said no sex will happen so she's holding you according to your word

LAST MINUTE RESISTANCE

The worst mistake I made at the very end. She was naked in my bed, letting me give her pleasure, but she didn't want to reciprocate. It made me angry and I asked her to leave. Fuck, it was so stupid. I know that I should have just be more perseverant, let her sleep, fractionate more, and try again later, in the night or in the morning. Either way, she left the apartment angry.

She's angry because you were dishonest. You had no backbone to be honest about who you were and what you really wanted so she couldn't respect you

LESSONS

The biggest lesson for me is to persist more. Persistance for me is staying on course regardless of the emotional pain. It was a great lesson. It actually changed my optics on pain and suffering. No pain no gain.

No... persistence was not your problem here

Sure if you persisted more "maybe" you could have gotten the lay but you made tons of mistakes prior. You were playing hide the banana game to trick her into isolation

Also because of her experience she needed a more dominant and sexual approach from you

 

[Bill]

A former prostitute sounds like an std risk, I wouldn’t do it.

 

[Jan]

The other main thing I picked up from this report - did you make her cum? Shouldn't ever make a girl cum before she puts out, as it can satiate (= kill) their desire.

I didn't make her cum. Btw, something I forgot to mention. She had her women's days that night. She warned me about it before she came over to my place and told me again next day over texts (explaining herself why she didn't want to have sex a day before). I actually completely forgot about it during escalation The truth was, it was already pretty late and I was drunk at that time. Being drunk was definitely not helping

What is this thing about the direct opener you guys are talking about?

 

[Mr.SocialAcceptableHarem]

It's simple really... you didn't have a strong dominant and sexual frame when you were in isolation



Not really a fan of your mindset here... You were lucky to get in her car??? what?

More like she was so charmed by you that she broke her rule and gave you a ride. Perception is everything at it can bleed into your subcomms



Hmmm this isn't good.

She's showing heavy resistance to your attempts to sexualize. Means at this point she's not really sold on you as a sexual option



Why not qualify her on things that move the seduction further instead? Especially since the sexual frame was already lacking

Smart, beauty and courage is kinda implying wife material. A better approach would have been adventurous, passionate and a woman who goes after what she wants which should be your penis obviously



Oh yeah... she was in the mood



Sad that her cat died but you were coming off a little too accommodating here. Trying too hard to make her feel good. Overproviding good emotions and make yourself seem more and more like a low level BF

Because why do you care so much when you literally just met her and you haven't even had sex yet? Why are so ready to do so much for someone that hasn't done much for you?



Ask yourself this... if she thought you were a high value sexy lover at this point would she be this demanding? You offer 4 places and she is still giving you a hard time?

You lost the meta frame here and you allowing her to boss you around is dropping your value fast.



Jesus... she is giving resistance and then you go for even higher compliance? I mean why??



Duh!! of course she will say this

She's literally treating you like crap but you keep chasing her. She knows she has leverage and that is why she was so bold to say something like this



How are you shocked??? I'm not surprised one bit



Aha... you learned something

Notice how when you finally stopped chasing and punished her for bad behavior she started coming towards you. She was testing your strength the entire time



Not bad



I don't think telling her you don't want to fuck was a good idea. It's not helping your frame at all G. I think a better way would have been to be direct in womanese

"Don't get me wrong, sex is amazing but I'm not that easy. I need to feel chemistry and connection to really enjoy it. But let's just focus first on enjoying some good food and a movie without all this pressure of expectations"

So with something like that you don't take sex off the table but show you have standards that she needs to live up to before she gets the pleasure of experiencing your dick



Your escalation didn't work because the frames you set prior were very poor. You didn't present yourself like a sexual guy so she is acting congruent to how you presented yourself earlier

Remember.. you said no sex will happen so she's holding you according to your word



She's angry because you were dishonest. You had no backbone to be honest about who you were and what you really wanted so she couldn't respect you



No... persistence was not your problem here

Sure if you persisted more "maybe" you could have gotten the lay but you made tons of mistakes prior. You were playing hide the banana game to trick her into isolation

Also because of her experience she needed a more dominant and sexual approach from you

Your analysis really opened my eyes @TomInHo

I guess the bitchiest women aren’t being bitches just to be bitches

It’s because they don’t respect the guy enough, so try to get away with whatever they can

Maybe that mindset of “I’m gonna dominate him now because he isn’t leading”, isn’t the most moral, but it is a response to the Man’s game ultimately.

I see a lot correlations in my game over a couple recent dates

One time I made a weak first impression on the approach (asking too many questions to the point where their was a power imbalance) and then this correlated to her being standoffish during the date

And another time, I lost the frame over text after I double texted once and then after that it was really hard to get her on the date, I had to ask her out 4 times before I got a yes.

After that date she was making really difficult to get a second date, her not being clear with her schedule. So I just gave up, not worth fighting a “ask her out” battle 4 more times over text.

But if my game was stronger, I wouldn’t even have these problems.

Basically “it sucks to suck”.

I think the fastest way to get over this inner game issue (because imo the weak frames are created with bad inner game)

Is to find ways to maximize self esteem through positive core believes that are robust and reinforced through positive experiences.

I don’t think all women will take it this far if you have weak frame but everyone takes advantage of weak people to some extent, except for the extremely compassionate few individuals out there.

But for the most, if someone does not respect you and you don’t have any bargaining chips, they will take from you

It’s like taking candy from a baby

But “Sucks to suck” should motivate someone who struggles with inner game to level up and not have these problems.

Best,

Biggus

 

[Karea Ricardus D.]

What is this thing about the direct opener you guys are talking about?

I mean when she said "I know you want to fuck me." - it was like fucking duh, you opened her direct, not like you were hiding your dick on the open.

But you started hiding your dick later when you went into a platonic frame to disarm her objection.

If she says you just wanna have sex, you can agree... or go into qualification as TomInHo suggested.

From an ancient LR of mine, 2010, during LMR... this was 40 minutes after opening her in a train station:

She said "You don't really like me, you just like my body".
I replied: "...and? So what?" then I continued escalating hard and heavy, and with a turned on sexual voice breathed in her ears: "you are right... I do like your body... I love your body... oh my God you are so fucking hot... Jesus... look at you... you turn me on like crazy!"
And that's when she said "Do you have a condom?"

This last one was the KEY! And this was
the biggest insight I had from this lay. First when she said "you dont really like me for me,
you just like my body", my community trained brain went: "of course she'd say that, I had
only like 10 minutes with her and therefore the qualification is anything but solid... I should
have done more A3 and showed her that I apprieciate her personality!"

But, that is bullshit
for fast lays. Forget about all that, guys. That is Mystery and his 7 hour rule speaking. In
fact, I'm now thinking that for fast lays, THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE and personality based A3 is
going to be COUNTER prodcutive cause it sets entirely wrong frames! Qualification SHOULD
be based solely on her looks and body and sexuality. Just like Cali Pimp does. Duh!!! How
could we miss that?

 

[Viper]

I mean when she said "I know you want to fuck me." - it was like fucking duh, you opened her direct, not like you were hiding your dick on the open.

But you started hiding your dick later when you went into a platonic frame to disarm her objection.

If she says you just wanna have sex, you can agree... or go into qualification as TomInHo suggested.

From an ancient LR of mine, 2010, during LMR... this was 40 minutes after opening her in a train station:

Bro I feel you on this advice,can you give me some knowledge where,after hearing a woman say that do you turn it sexual like you did and start qualifying her on her beauty(looks) , what's are some indications and contraindications of starting qualify ing her on her looks,

 

[Jan]

I agree

From an ancient LR of mine, 2010, during LMR... this was 40 minutes after opening her in a train station:

I agree that often for fast lays it's better to just bet everything on arousing her. By principle I feel that making her feel aroused should be the core of seduction and at lease for me, this concept has been lost a little among so many other concepts to learn.

BUT, she wasn't in the physical place as I was. In other words, my ability to arouse over text/phone is pathetic (I'm close to 100% sure that if I started doing this over the phone, she would stop replying). To sexualise I rely almost exlusivelly on escalation and vibe. So I usually play the best friends card while away, and sexualise physically when together and in isolation.

The same applies to CaliP's analogy. Mind that all his seductions are already happening in the isolated area.

 

[TomInHo]

To sexualise I rely almost exlusivelly on escalation and vibe. So I usually play the best friends card while away, and sexualise physically when together and in isolation

Using just vibe and escalation works but your underlying frame is really hurting your seductions

You even mentioned the same issue here. And I suspect that using the “best friend” angle is what is costing you a lot of lays. It’s making you come off too incongruent

This girl wasn’t in the same physical as you because she still had some underlying logical concerns. And this is where verbals really come in handy because it allows you to do things to drop her guard so that she doesn’t feel the need to control her state around you

 

[Jan]

@TomInHo I don't know how to communicate verbally the lover frame. I had many, many bad experiences talking about sex (I guess I was usually too direct, maybe even too vulgar). Since, every time I tried to verbally set a sexual frame and I either experienced massive resistance or even she would just run away. As a result I dropped verbal sexual talk altogether from my game, and focused on isolation and physical escalation. My interactions are almost never platonic, there is always some sexual undertone, as I'm attractive and physically sexy guy. Verbally and frame-wise it's too much boyfriend, best friend (with a dick thought . I actually had several fwb situations which also influenced my game. I know it's an issue for me, but I really struggle to set verbal sexual frames. Nothing seems to work for me, or at least I don't see it.

 

[Conquistador]

The same applies to CaliP's analogy. Mind that all his seductions are already happening in the isolated area.

Good to know you’re in the believer camp btw