FR "I thought that we can be friends at first, but turned out that you are 10 years older and I think there is no way we can be friends"

[Jan]

I met this chick in a bus. She was on her way to university, I was on my way to work.

I sat next to her and opened with "Anything interesting on tik-tok?". She was sitting next to me browsing on her mobile.

"Yeah, it's quite interesting."
"Really, what is it? Videos of funny cats or something?"
"Haha, I love cats."
"Really? Do you have a cat?"
"No, not here. But I had a cat back home."

I turned out that she was a student in my town. She came to university to study business. She didn't really want to study it but her father convinced her, because he is a succesful businessman himself.

We got out from the bus at the same bus stop and headed to subway together. We continued conversation, which was mostly friendly banter, me asking her about her studies, what does she really want to study, etc. She was also asking questions about me, what I studied, what I do for work etc.

Our conversation in subway was pretty short because she only had to take like 5 stations.

We exchanged numbers during the last stop, and I saw that she was interested in me, I saw it by how hard she was trying to exchange numbers under time pressure.

FOLLOWING

I texted her few minutes later, still from the subway.

ME: "I forgot to ask you name, haha"
HER: Lara. And what's your name?
ME: Jan
ME: Nice meeting you
ME: I will save you in my contacts as Lara, ballet dancer [she told me she would like to do ballet]

LATER IN THE EVENING

ME: "hey there"
ME: "how are you doing? studying for your accounting exam next week?"
HER: "I'm doing fine, thank you"
HER: "Yes, I'm preparting for the exam, what are you doing?"
ME: "I hope you gonna pass it, but if you get A+ it's partially on me. you remember, I explain to you what accrual is, hahaha"
HER: "yes, the exam is next week. thanks for teaching me "
ME: "Keep studying hard so we can go for coffee and ice-cream to celebrate your success, hahaha"
HER: "btw how old are you?"
ME: "probably too old for you "
HER: "so, how are you?"
ME: "I will give you a hint. I don't have to study for exams anymore, but I'm not a ceo yet "
HER: "25?"
ME: "28"
ME: "and you?"
HER: [replying to 28]: OMG!
HER: [replying to 'and you'] 18
ME: 'at least we have the second digit in common "
HER: "we have a 10 years gap which is more important that we have this second digit in common"
ME: "I recenly got single from a long term relationship, I'm enjoying being single right now, and I don't want you to feel any pressure" [MY ATTEMPT AT DISQUALIFY MYSELF AS A BOYFRIED]
HER: "Oh now, you misunderstood me. I thought that we can be friends at first but turned out that you are 10 years older and I think there is no we can be friends. And I didnt' tell you, but I have a boyfriend)"
ME: "I was thinking friends too"
[ NO REPLY FROM HER DURING THE SAME DAY]

Next day she ghosted me.

I'm wondering what the fuck happened here. I realized that something has changed in her when I mentioned this coffee. Her question about the age came kind of unexpected and out of context. I'm also wondering how to approach encounters with young girls like this: what is the best frame? Is is lover frame? Boyfriend frame? Friend frame?

I'm actually very confused. I somehow thought that boyfriend frame is the worst in this type of scenario. We don't know each other, she met a sexy guy, but still he is rather random dude. And there is still large age gap, which apparently is a problem for her.

My plan was to play this in a friends frame, isolate and escalate in private. I think I mentioned this coffee too early. I was too impatient and I didn't give her a chance to chase, to propose the soft close. That's clearly a mistake.

But I'm still wondering what is the best frame in these type of relationships?

 

[TomInHo]

The approach was good and initial texting was also good but this is where things started getting wacky

LATER IN THE EVENING

ME: "hey there"
ME: "how are you doing? studying for your accounting exam next week?"
HER: "I'm doing fine, thank you"
HER: "Yes, I'm preparting for the exam, what are you doing?"
ME: "I hope you gonna pass it, but if you get A+ it's partially on me. you remember, I explain to you what accrual is, hahaha"
HER: "yes, the exam is next week. thanks for teaching me "
ME: "Keep studying hard so we can go for coffee and ice-cream to celebrate your success, hahaha"
HER: "btw how old are you?"
ME: "probably too old for you "

I wouldn’t have said that.

The fact she is asking your age means it’s a possible concern and you have to tread carefully

A great way to handle this is ask her to guess

Then give her an age that’s +/- 1 off her initial guess

: Guess

: Hmmm.. you’re 24?

: You were soooo close but no

: Lol. What is it? Tell me

: 25. You’re pretty good at this

ME: "I will give you a hint. I don't have to study for exams anymore, but I'm not a ceo yet "
HER: "25?"
ME: "28"
ME: "and you?"
HER: [replying to 28]: OMG!
HER: [replying to 'and you'] 18
ME: 'at least we have the second digit in common "

Yeah. Getting in trouble

Don’t get me wrong. Some girls love older guys

But some girls feel weird dating a guy that’s way older than them (Bad social frame for that demographic)

So when you do the guessing game you reduce the chances of disqualifying yourself.

Because a lot of the time she will guess an age she hopes you to be

It doesn’t work 100% but works more often than not.

And after you fuck her 3 times you can tell her your real age because at that point she’s invested and less likely to care

HER: "we have a 10 years gap which is more important that we have this second digit in common"
ME: "I recenly got single from a long term relationship, I'm enjoying being single right now, and I don't want you to feel any pressure" [MY ATTEMPT AT DISQUALIFY MYSELF AS A BOYFRIED]

See

But your boyfriend disqualifier didn’t work because it didn’t address her main concern

HER: "Oh now, you misunderstood me. I thought that we can be friends at first but turned out that you are 10 years older and I think there is no we can be friends. And I didnt' tell you, but I have a boyfriend)"
ME: "I was thinking friends too"
[ NO REPLY FROM HER DURING THE SAME DAY]

Next day she ghosted me.

Yup… game over

No stress because it happens sometimes but at least you know how to handle this situation if it comes up again

 

[Jan]

@TomInHo My real age is 38 btw

 

[Michael Chief]

My real age is 38 btw

First of all, there is no need to lie. As long as you establish enough attraction, if you are an age she previously thought is "too old," she's going to backwards-rationalize it and start telling herself that age doesn't matter. Just up your game and stop trying use a fake age as a crutch. Besides, there are TONS of young women who are into older men.

HER: "Oh now, you misunderstood me. I thought that we can be friends at first but turned out that you are 10 years older and I think there is no we can be friends. And I didnt' tell you, but I have a boyfriend)"
ME: "I was thinking friends too"
[ NO REPLY FROM HER DURING THE SAME DAY]

A much better move would have been to agree with her objection that you are too old for her, and to exaggerate it. It's one of the standard PUA responses to such a test.

A separate issue here is the classic boyfriend objection combined with the friend frame, which makes it a little more complicated. Regardless, "I was thinking friends too" is an attempt to work within her frame, which is almost never the right answer in these situations. You need to introduce a new frame instead.

 

[DarkKnight]

First of all, there is no need to lie. As long as you establish enough attraction, if you are an age she previously thought is "too old," she's going to backwards-rationalize it and start telling herself that age doesn't matter.

Yeah.. not entirely agree on this. Yes girls backwards rationalize in your favor when they like you but it is still a curveball because it takes time for them to process the dissonance.

I think to lie or not lie is part of the calibration here. Social circle where you will keep encountering her and are damn sure she will like you? You can stick to the truth as you can spam dhvs.

But if your window is smaller OR you barely have any control like through instant messenger.. being truthful can create more harm than good. So depends man.. fucking depends. People who apply to jobs but are truthful get screwed over while people who tell blatant lies get the job while being unqualified.

 

[DarkJedi]

@Jan good approach!

My sticking point is also texting, and I'm trying to get better.

I noticed a pattern in your texting: you're qualifying to the girl. She's the one deciding, and you're convincing her.

HER: "btw how old are you?"
ME: "probably too old for you "

too old "for you" -> "you" are the one deciding
Maybe I'm being nitpicky but this is what I see

HER: [replying to 28]: OMG!
HER: [replying to 'and you'] 18
ME: 'at least we have the second digit in common "
HER: "we have a 10 years gap which is more important that we have this second digit in common"

She's disqualifying you and you're qualifying her. Then she disqualifies you harder, strengthening the frame

I'm wondering what the fuck happened here. I realized that something has changed in her when I mentioned this coffee. Her question about the age came kind of unexpected and out of context. I'm also wondering how to approach encounters with young girls like this: what is the best frame? Is is lover frame? Boyfriend frame? Friend frame?

Yeah sometimes girls feel awkward to bring it up in person, especially younger ones, and then bring it up later on text. As others have said: could be attraction issue, and also social frame. Girls who like older guys and are attracted won't even bring it up most times.

 

[Will_V]

I met this chick in a bus. She was on her way to university, I was on my way to work.

I sat next to her and opened with "Anything interesting on tik-tok?". She was sitting next to me browsing on her mobile.

"Yeah, it's quite interesting."
"Really, what is it? Videos of funny cats or something?"
"Haha, I love cats."
"Really? Do you have a cat?"
"No, not here. But I had a cat back home."

I turned out that she was a student in my town. She came to university to study business. She didn't really want to study it but her father convinced her, because he is a succesful businessman himself.

We got out from the bus at the same bus stop and headed to subway together. We continued conversation, which was mostly friendly banter, me asking her about her studies, what does she really want to study, etc. She was also asking questions about me, what I studied, what I do for work etc.

Our conversation in subway was pretty short because she only had to take like 5 stations.

We exchanged numbers during the last stop, and I saw that she was interested in me, I saw it by how hard she was trying to exchange numbers under time pressure.

FOLLOWING

I texted her few minutes later, still from the subway.

ME: "I forgot to ask you name, haha"
HER: Lara. And what's your name?
ME: Jan
ME: Nice meeting you
ME: I will save you in my contacts as Lara, ballet dancer [she told me she would like to do ballet]

LATER IN THE EVENING

ME: "hey there"
ME: "how are you doing? studying for your accounting exam next week?"
HER: "I'm doing fine, thank you"
HER: "Yes, I'm preparting for the exam, what are you doing?"
ME: "I hope you gonna pass it, but if you get A+ it's partially on me. you remember, I explain to you what accrual is, hahaha"
HER: "yes, the exam is next week. thanks for teaching me "
ME: "Keep studying hard so we can go for coffee and ice-cream to celebrate your success, hahaha"
HER: "btw how old are you?"
ME: "probably too old for you "
HER: "so, how are you?"
ME: "I will give you a hint. I don't have to study for exams anymore, but I'm not a ceo yet "
HER: "25?"
ME: "28"
ME: "and you?"
HER: [replying to 28]: OMG!
HER: [replying to 'and you'] 18
ME: 'at least we have the second digit in common "
HER: "we have a 10 years gap which is more important that we have this second digit in common"
ME: "I recenly got single from a long term relationship, I'm enjoying being single right now, and I don't want you to feel any pressure" [MY ATTEMPT AT DISQUALIFY MYSELF AS A BOYFRIED]
HER: "Oh now, you misunderstood me. I thought that we can be friends at first but turned out that you are 10 years older and I think there is no we can be friends. And I didnt' tell you, but I have a boyfriend)"
ME: "I was thinking friends too"
[ NO REPLY FROM HER DURING THE SAME DAY]

Next day she ghosted me.

I'm wondering what the fuck happened here. I realized that something has changed in her when I mentioned this coffee. Her question about the age came kind of unexpected and out of context. I'm also wondering how to approach encounters with young girls like this: what is the best frame? Is is lover frame? Boyfriend frame? Friend frame?

I'm actually very confused. I somehow thought that boyfriend frame is the worst in this type of scenario. We don't know each other, she met a sexy guy, but still he is rather random dude. And there is still large age gap, which apparently is a problem for her.

My plan was to play this in a friends frame, isolate and escalate in private. I think I mentioned this coffee too early. I was too impatient and I didn't give her a chance to chase, to propose the soft close. That's clearly a mistake.

But I'm still wondering what is the best frame in these type of relationships?

The two crucial points were where you said:

"probably too old for you "

and

"At least we have the second digit in common"

This is what really constituted the entirety of your frame about the age difference. And it's frankly not great.

Directly disqualifying yourself by saying you are too old for her is not good to do on text, she cannot see your lightheartedness or joking manner. So she has to partially trust it unless she wants to assume the burden of clarifying the joke, which is asking a lot.

Saying something like "I'm an old old man, soon you'll have to be giving me baths .. " has the same effect of amplifying but none of the direct disqualification.

And the second one beginning with "At least .. " again since she can't see your nonverbals it comes across as you actually trying to find anything at all in common, which is a weak qualifying frame that contradicts your previous one. You could have amplified again, called her a spring chicken or something. In the end if she likes you enough she'll find a way to agree with your joking frame and change the subject or whatever, in the meantime you can only come across chill, unfazed, and positive.

It's a pretty bad outcome to have to talk about age on the phone - in fact I'd almost call it a sign that she was already looking for reasons to duck out - but I think you didn't do things any favors with those particular responses.

 

[fog]

what is the best frame? Is is lover frame? Boyfriend frame? Friend frame?

The best immediate frame in this case has less to do with boyfriend, friend or lover. And more to do with being in the same or similar social crowd as her.

Let me explain.

The way to influence this woman... is to show you are in the same or similar social crowd as her. This effectively dissolves resistance and gives her permission to act on her desires. On the other hand, showing you're in a different undesirable social crowd makes her resist.

Setting yourself up well in her social frame opens up opportunities... to influence her into the role you want her to play. Whether that is girlfriend, lover, or friend.

Part of what got me through this point in my seduction career...was learning how to properly fit myself into a woman's social frame from an age standpoint. For 18-24 year olds, it's best to stick to 24 when fielding age-related questions from them.

 

[POB]

The late Bacchus had a simple yet great response for the age question:
"Take a wild guess"
Then whatever number she says you run with it.
E.g.
"How old are you?"
"Take a wild guess"
"Mmmm 25"
"You are so clever! Now tell me more about...."

Also some women won't date older guys, no matter what.
She seemed like a yellow, which means a little work, but not a hard no.

 

[Skjöldr]

HER: "btw how old are you?"
ME: "probably too old for you "
HER: "so, how are you?"
ME: "I will give you a hint. I don't have to study for exams anymore, but I'm not a ceo yet "
HER: "25?"
ME: "28"

This was not good. "Probably too old for you" Not a good line. Should have just lied.

Could have pre-empted it by asking first and make her guess and lie. In your case she said "25", which probably means it was her maximum acceptable for you to have at that stage. Should have said "close 24/23".

 

[Skjöldr]

Then give her an age that’s +/- 1 off her initial guess

: Guess

: Hmmm.. you’re 24?

: You were soooo close but no

: Lol. What is it? Tell me

: 25. You’re pretty good at this

Agree with the principle, but I would lie down in this case.

"23*. You're pretty good at this".

With young girls you gotta be really careful. I started being upfront with older women tho to disqualify myself as a boyfriend more. Younger girls I almost always lie.

 

[Skjöldr]

First of all, there is no need to lie. As long as you establish enough attraction, if you are an age she previously thought is "too old," she's going to backwards-rationalize it and start telling herself that age doesn't matter. Just up your game and stop trying use a fake age as a crutch. Besides, there are TONS of young women who are into older men.

Better safe than sorry. Doesn't matter if a ton of young girls are into older men, alot aren't or their social frame problem will overrule that attraction.

 

[Skills]

In general this should not be a problem with greens, with yellowish girls is were the problem is... And of course most women will be yellow...

Also good luck in apps if you don't decrease your age... unless you pay for hide feature like COcporn..

The difference between green and yellow is the green will most times ignore the age subject... Also make sure you are trending with styles... Anyways, you fucked up with the I am too old for you.. I personally have had success with you are a baby you are too young for me to disqualify myself but I pre empt with younger women that I know 100 percent dtf, as push pull... But more optimal to avoid subject and if it comes up make her guess ..

Hb: how old are you?
Me: I personally like to troll and say 69, then right away I say guess?
Hb: whatever age she gives you is the range acceptable to her, let's say 25
Me: omg you are good at this stuff you must be a psychic, how did you know
Hb: will tell you why
Me: to troll I am actually a year older or younger of the range, she will laugh and then you go anyways and you change topics

Most guys should not have issues with 5 and 10 or older gaps with women or even with age till the 40s and even then but obviously context and always calibrate to girl and situation..... But with 18 to 22 you have to be more strategic

 

[Black-eyed]

The two crucial points were where you said:

"probably too old for you "

and

"At least we have the second digit in common"

This is what really constituted the entirety of your frame about the age difference. And it's frankly not great.

Directly disqualifying yourself by saying you are too old for her is not good to do on text, she cannot see your lightheartedness or joking manner. So she has to partially trust it unless she wants to assume the burden of clarifying the joke, which is asking a lot.

Saying something like "I'm an old old man, soon you'll have to be giving me baths .. " has the same effect of amplifying but none of the direct disqualification.

And the second one beginning with "At least .. " again since she can't see your nonverbals it comes across as you actually trying to find anything at all in common, which is a weak qualifying frame that contradicts your previous one. You could have amplified again, called her a spring chicken or something. In the end if she likes you enough she'll find a way to agree with your joking frame and change the subject or whatever, in the meantime you can only come across chill, unfazed, and positive.

It's a pretty bad outcome to have to talk about age on the phone - in fact I'd almost call it a sign that she was already looking for reasons to duck out - but I think you didn't do things any favors with those particular responses.

yup! good noticing here, but I think young women like that like to follow up the game when they are not planning to meet you at all. These type of leads are called Time Wasters and is really common the younger they are. Maybe she was interested, maybe not. either way if it is not going to happen. Move on

 

[Will_V]

yup! good noticing here, but I think young women like that like to follow up the game when they are not planning to meet you at all. These type of leads are called Time Wasters and is really common the younger they are. Maybe she was interested, maybe not. either way if it is not going to happen. Move on

Hard to say - it's very easy to start labeling certain women as Time Wasters and resigning oneself to losing them when it's not necessarily the case.

But if you step back and look at this whole interaction - she fires the age question out of nowhere and then basically cancels the entire thing based on a 10 year age gap. It makes you wonder how much connection there really was. A girl who's into you isn't looking for reasons to eject but is internally handling her own objections to stay in the wonderful emotions of attraction and the bubble of connection you've built.

In my experience, when you don't build a great connection or fail to handle some initial doubts she has, a girl will tend to get very nervous when the initial buzz of the approach is over, and on text will either start grilling you (not in a good way, e.g. asking what you're looking for, or what made you go up and talk to her, or how old you are) or being generally defensive, and I consider it basically dead at this point, since you can't build attraction over text.

@Jan how good would you say the initial interaction was in terms of her being comfortable with you? How did you qualify her? I know it was a pretty short approach but it seems to me like she possibly never quite found a comfortable position for herself relative to you in her perception of you both.

 

[Skills]

Hard to say - it's very easy to start labeling certain women as Time Wasters and resigning oneself to losing them when it's not necessarily the case.

But if you step back and look at this whole interaction - she fires the age question out of nowhere and then basically cancels the entire thing based on a 10 year age gap. It makes you wonder how much connection there really was. A girl who's into you isn't looking for reasons to eject but is internally handling her own objections to stay in the wonderful emotions of attraction and the bubble of connection you've built.

In my experience, when you don't build a great connection or fail to handle some initial doubts she has, a girl will tend to get very nervous when the initial buzz of the approach is over, and on text will either start grilling you (not in a good way, e.g. asking what you're looking for, or what made you go up and talk to her, or how old you are) or being generally defensive, and I consider it basically dead at this point, since you can't build attraction over text.

@Jan how good would you say the initial interaction was in terms of her being comfortable with you? How did you qualify her? I know it was a pretty short approach but it seems to me like she possibly never quite found a comfortable position for herself relative to you in her perception of you both.

good point cause a 10 year age gap is not massive, maybe she had a state change, not interested post meet and just nitpicking.... omg 10 year difference, omg now i have bf........ Just like the we are lesbians, or i have a bf, or you are ____________ could be plausible deniability to reject.... as well....

 

[Black-eyed]

Hard to say - it's very easy to start labeling certain women as Time Wasters and resigning oneself to losing them when it's not necessarily the case.

Quite achievable actually when we have experience. I can go as far as to say whether she is going to be a time waster or not before even approaching her. In fact, the more experienced we become in game the more we realize is really all about that special skill: the ability to see what others can’t see and see it faster. We realize we have gotten better at this when we go to the nightclub and start making out with girls without even saying nothing.
I have cold approached Gold Diggers that thought I was some kind of rich dude, all out of their own imagination, because I showed no sign I was a rich dude. Lot of rich dudes are actually quite of a pussy but those girls chased me quite a lot as long as I didn’t show any sign or clue that I wasn’t rich, the chase continued until they finally decided it was painful the chase and gave up, turning cold and giving objections left and right. A change of behavior that looks quite confusing for weak minds
Curiosity makes us chase things but that doesn’t mean we get interested once we see what all is about. You and I will never know what drove her curiosity to chase him, not the dude know, otherwise he wouldn’t be asking for advice. The game will remain a numbers game for all of us, the doubt of many sets will never go away. You can decide whether you want to stay stuck behind or keep moving forward. And finally, I would rather follow the principle “It is ok to fail” than analyzing a set that ultimately might just be a No girl from long time ago
I have had girls video calling me and asking me questions that ended up nowhere. At the other hand, I have had girls who didn’t replay much to my texts and seemed to turn cold and yet 2 days later called me to simply hook up and fuck.

 

[Jan]

@Will_V The interaction was real short in time, in total probably about 20 minutes. I don't think I have built any real comfort but how much comfort can you actually build in 20 minutes? I'm not talking about 20 minutes on the sofa in cafe. It's 20 minutes on the run. While I was talking to her, her mind was occupied with logistics constantly, is that my stop to get off the bus, subway, subway off, etc. Plus, she must have had some thoughts about: is anyone, any of my friends around, seeing me with this stranger, etc? So to answer your question: I don't think I've made her truly comfortable. Apparently, she was comfortable enought to give me her contact details thought.

To sum up, I had very little time to make her comfortable. But considering these constraints, I think I did decent job.

I just want to point out one more thing.

If you look at my texting convo, you will see that her age concern came IMMEDIATELY after my light proposal about having coffee together.

I think I should have bantered and built more social connection over texts. Instead I was impatient and kind of tried to soft close her too early. It was my uncalibrated experimenting with Skills' texting methodology.

Because I asked for compliance too early, I triggered her resistance, which manifested in her providing plausible deniability to reject me. Age first, then 'I have a boyfriend'. I was trying to move too fast. Instead of even suggesting the meeting I should have continued to build connection and comfort over text, and wait for her to give me some signal to proceed further.

@Will_V I agree that my frame was poor after the age question. I panicked when I saw this because this is not the first time I heard this concern and I failed every time in the past to deal with this

 

[Jan]

The best immediate frame in this case has less to do with boyfriend, friend or lover. And more to do with being in the same or similar social crowd as her.

Let me explain.

The way to influence this woman... is to show you are in the same or similar social crowd as her. This effectively dissolves resistance and gives her permission to act on her desires. On the other hand, showing you're in a different undesirable social crowd makes her resist.

Setting yourself up well in her social frame opens up opportunities... to influence her into the role you want her to play. Whether that is girlfriend, lover, or friend.

Part of what got me through this point in my seduction career...was learning how to properly fit myself into a woman's social frame from an age standpoint. For 18-24 year olds, it's best to stick to 24 when fielding age-related questions from them.

I agree. I think this is the core solution. Pace her with her social frame FIRST, lead her with your frame LATER.

 

[Skills]

@Will_V The interaction was real short in time, in total probably about 20 minutes. I don't think I have built any real comfort but how much comfort can you actually build in 20 minutes? I'm not talking about 20 minutes on the sofa in cafe. It's 20 minutes on the run. While I was talking to her, her mind was occupied with logistics constantly, is that my stop to get off the bus, subway, subway off, etc. Plus, she must have had some thoughts about: is anyone, any of my friends around, seeing me with this stranger, etc? So to answer your question: I don't think I've made her truly comfortable. Apparently, she was comfortable enought to give me her contact details thought.

To sum up, I had very little time to make her comfortable. But considering these constraints, I think I did decent job.

I just want to point out one more thing.

If you look at my texting convo, you will see that her age concern came IMMEDIATELY after my light proposal about having coffee together.

I think I should have bantered and built more social connection over texts. Instead I was impatient and kind of tried to soft close her too early. It was my uncalibrated experimenting with Skills' texting methodology.

Because I asked for compliance too early, I triggered her resistance, which manifested in her providing plausible deniability to reject me. Age first, then 'I have a boyfriend'. I was trying to move too fast. Instead of even suggesting the meeting I should have continued to build connection and comfort over text, and wait for her to give me some signal to proceed further.

@Will_V I agree that my frame was poor after the age question. I panicked when I saw this because this is not the first time I heard this concern and I failed every time in the past to deal with this

beautiful you get it now!