Identifying Amygdala Hijacks

[Rakehell]

I want to write this down super quickly because I feel like it may help some of you as it has helped me tremendously. That being said i’m gonna get super real with you all because I have nothing to hide and it’s often hard to identify these things because it’s something you unconsciously avoid. And in order to explain it I have to go into detail.

When I was 16 I was thrust into the social world with no real points of reference. I had been isolated for a few years because I was living in a dangerous environment, and had no real control over my living situation. My father had been in prison and my mother was borderline insane at the time.

Despite this I came out with a warrior mindset wanting to experience everything I felt I had missed out on. I felt like I was entitled to a world that had been kept away from me. I was quickly accepted and my self esteem was probably a little too bloated in all honesty.

I got invited to my first party in a few days of me integrating. With elation I tagged along, with two guy’s and a girl. I had no real expectations, it was a house party. When we arrived I greeted some people I had seen around school, and engaged with people despite my probably lackluster social skills at the time. About 30 minutes into the party warming up me and a group of guy’s and girls I barely knew went outside and smoked some weed (this is gonna be crucial to the story) at a bench outside near the woods. It was very dark but the bench was dimly lit by phone lights and a light pole in the distance.

Once we finished we trekked back to the party and as I was walking my vision started to go in and out and it felt as if I was phasing in and out of consciousness. Once we made it back to the spacious basement where the party was being held I quickly found a wall for support, I thought I might pass out.

As the party went on I don’t remember much of it. I remember being approached by two girls and dancing with both of them, and then the party being over. My friend could tell I was fucked up and offered to let me lay in the back of his car, I accepted. I was joined by him and what had to be 15 minutes later the other guy came back claiming that he had been jumped by some guy’s in the party over the girl we came with. I’m barely conscious at this point but I feel really terrible about this for some reason. I want to help this guy as I feel indebted to him, long story short is I don’t and this stuck with me. I’d known this guy for all of two days but I wanted to help him fight off a group of guy’s I didn’t even know.

I end up getting dropped off and the night of “fun” is over.

I go into this long winded story because that one night had an unconscious effect on me for the longest. In fact it caused a mild form of PTSD that I hadn’t identified until very recently. I couldn’t understand for the longest why despite my seemingly advanced social skills, and inherent charisma, whenever it came to very large groups of people I’d shut down and it felt as if I was a social newby again.

I’m somewhat of a psychology nerd, and there’s this phenomenon called amygdala hijacking. It’s when an unconscious belief takes hold over your brain and floods you with neurotransmitter's for better or for worse. When you have a traumatic experience in a certain situation, being in a situation similar to that one can cause your brain to regress back to that point.

So despite all your growth if you’re attacked by a dog at 9 years old, your 20 year old, or 40 year old, or 50 year old self, will still feel like a 9 year old around dogs.

This is a pretty rudimentary example and it’s pretty easily corrected and identifiable. Social traumas on the other hand are much more sneaky and not easily identified.

If you ever don’t feel like yourself in a certain situation, it’s quite possible that you’re being influenced by amygdala hijacking.

You correct this by doing some self reflection on the event that you’re in and how it relates to you in the bigger picture. You then experience the main event again through memory and reframe what happened to you in a better light. It’s as simple as that. If the trauma is significant enough you will easily identify it.

It’ll feel as though a weight has been lifted from your shoulders. Your amygdala won’t become flooded because it isn’t interpreting what you now experience in the same way as what happened in the past.

I can say with confidence that socially I am fairly above the norm. Even among stereotypical socially gifted people. Despite this though I’d still see myself shut down in party esque situations UNTIL I identified why that was.

I write this long winded post to say, if you think you might have any underlying trauma it’s important to confront that shit and deal with it because it can and will physically shut you down despite it being mostly mental.

You’ll regress to that point in your life and it won’t be pretty if you were at a particularly down period.

Thankfully I don’t have much trauma left in me, and any that I do have is the sneaky sort that I detailed for you guy’s here. I hope my willingness to be vulnerable with you guy’s helps some of you.

It’s not always as simple as “facing your fears” (it can actually add to pre existing trauma if a bad experience is had), i’ve always faced my fears and have been to countless parties after that, but since it was so unconsciously effecting me, facing my “fear” didn’t help the fear at all.

It took identifying why I even felt that way in order for me to let go.

 

[Rakehell]

To add on to how sneaky this actually is. The symptoms are really similar to low momentum or rust, but it is actually far more extreme and detrimental to your game. Low momentum is like the sports player who’s coming off a stretch of not playing, he jumps back in the game cold and has to get back into the groove of playing.

He may be anxious, unsure, the physical symptoms of not being on are gonna be there. But the technical aspects of his game are there he just needs to adjust and get recalibrated to himself. He’ll eventually regain fire and his physical symptoms will be relieved.

An amygdala hijack is like the sports player who may or may not be coming off a stint of not playing. He might have even recently been on fire. But his next game is against a team he got skunked by 100 points in the past and was a major blemish on his career.

This time he’ll have all the physical symptoms of not being on. But this time he can’t even access the technical aspect of his game. He’s sloppy and cant correct, he doesn’t warm, like theres some type of blockage. His feelings never subside and he goes to the drawing board or seriously overhauls his game afterward.

The internal feelings of low momentum, and amygdala hijacking are gonna be the same. After-all the brain only has a certain number of hormones to work with. But the stress of an amygdala hijack actually clouds your decision making. You physically will not be able to access the part of your brain used for executive functioning. It lasts too, even after you leave a venue, the brain fog will follow you for quite a while.


You’ll feel compelled to restock your dopamine reserves as the stress will drain them. You might feel inclined to eat sweet food, or watch something funny, or watch a good movie.

I think it’s important to make the distinction between normal rust, and a deeper more unconscious problem. Their physical symptoms are similar but one isn’t correctable by just baring through it.

This, IMO will be the key to consistency of vibe and game. Being able to interact with women from the same frame without being clouded by your unconscious mind. Being able to access parts of your game when the time calls for it.

If you ever act ”not like yourself” around say a certain family member or around girls in a particular environment, it is probably due to internalized TRAUMA and not rust or your game.

I believe this is why guy’s game better on vacation. They have no internal reservations or feelings about the environment so they’re at their most zen state. They go in feeling good and this state isn’t effected, because their unconscious doesn’t pick up on anything familiar.

 

[Alpha13SC]

This is something I did in the past unconsciously, when some events that I went through didn't finalize in the best way possible. And then, I started to reframe them and felt better.

But now, that you named it, I can actually focus more on some automatic responses that I ve got out of nowhere and deal with them.

Thank you, man! This post it's really good.

 

[Rakehell]

This is something I did in the past unconsciously, when some events that I went through didn't finalize in the best way possible. And then, I started to reframe them and felt better.

But now, that you named it, I can actually focus more on some automatic responses that I ve got out of nowhere and deal with them.

Thank you, man! This post it's really good.

No problem! And what you were doing unconsciously was actually Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, something people pay thousands of dollars for therapists to help them do. If you’re constantly testing your comfort zone but never find yourself eventually “comfortable”. Then thats gonna be where you need to soul search.

Thanks for the kind words

 

[Rakehell]

Also special thanks to @Lofty. You inadvertently introduced me to the phenomenon and it helped me overcome some what of a plateau.

 

[LemurKing]

I'll need to keep this in mind next time I go out. I can definitely identify times like this in my past, especially when things don't go my way in an interaction suddenly my mind gets dark and clouded.

 

[samuraijack]

Ive read that AA is basically your amygdala being hijacked. But ive never really found a way to snap out of the hijack in the moment. Ive tried writing down everything, even using self CBT. but that doesn't help in the moment. Maybe intense presence can overcome it?

 

[Rakehell]

Ive read that AA is basically your amygdala being hijacked. But ive never really found a way to snap out of the hijack in the moment. Ive tried writing down everything, even using self CBT. but that doesn't help in the moment. Maybe intense presence can overcome it?

There isn’t much you can do besides accept that it’s happening. Mindfulness can help alleviate the symptoms but that won’t help you much in a situation where you need to be present, such as during public speaking. Your best bet is to prevent it from happening at all. It’s one of those things where an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Work on deconditioning yourself so that you’re less likely to be hijacked. Be open and honest with yourself about potential triggers when in the moment so that it never happens.

 

[Lofty]

TRE is a method to remedy traumas/hijacks/anxieties beyond CBT and does have applications to AA. Qigong/breathing exercises are also practices to consider in this vein, along with state control and social momentum tactics (note the mentions of SE/social engagement below). In general, these are topics with intricacies and variations by the individual.

Going to quote @Carousel a few times here:

On causes of AA:

There is trauma-based AA which is solved by the TRE I wrote about in the body-oriented therapy thread. Such AA is rooted in BODILY TENSION which keeps the amygdala (fear center of the brain) in a chronic hyperactive state.

There is validation-based AA which is not rooted in any traumatic memory, but simply lack of validation and experience. This one can be solved by exposure, like hanging around, or preferably laying a number of hot women. Laying women from cold approach also addresses this one, but hanging around women may be of interest simply because then you don't internalize this "I am only good at faking for 30 minutes that I am cool"-frame a pure cold-approach PUA may be victim to. Validation is usually the next step to work on after removing the bodily tension.

There are also multiple other causes of "AA" like simply being in a shitty state due to tiredness etc - this has nothing to do with neither traumas nor validation. Or lacking the drive to approach due to low sex drive, which again has multiple causes, but none are trauma nor validation related. Such problems are not really AA as there is no anxiety involved, but they are often lumped together with actual AA.

One can also approach a lot WITHOUT having solved trauma-based AA completely - this usually leads to burnout in the long run as the fear response is constantly triggered - reminiscent of the mechanism of chronic stress. Such a man STILL HAS AA - he is only acting in spite of it. Like driving with your hand brake partially on this is a harmful and sub-optimal way of operating.

Consequently, there are all sorts of nonsense, conflicting theories about 1) what AA IS, and thus, 2) how to cure it because a guy has a problem with approaching, solves it and projects HIS SOLUTION and thereby also HIS PROBLEM upon everybody else having a superficially similar problem.

Say guy 1 had no traumas, but lacked validation and solved it by banging more HBs, he now tells guy 2 with a trauma-based problem to bang more HBs to solve the problem, when this does not actually address his problem at all and the problem alone may make it hard to even bang a one HB. Guy 2 will obviously be frustrated. This results in insane outcomes like guys with 100 lays still having AA, thinking that more lays will solve their AA when the AA was rooted in traumas/social anxiety, rather than a lack of validation.

Fortunately, I and COCPORN did a detailed breakdown of this some years ago which we still think is valid. We may rewrite and publish it when we have the time for it. But you guys will come a long way simply with this post.

On CBT's addressing of traumas/hijacks/anxieties:

Note that CBT will NOT directly address traumas and hence AA (other than stupid pure cognitive beliefs like "women dislike being approached") in many cases and I believe that it may only somewhat work because the therapist may trigger the trauma and cause it to release due to a safe, comforting atmosphere. For example, the client finally gets mad or cries about being wronged and the emotional reaction completes, releasing the trauma. It has actually been found that the source of therapy is less important than the relation between the therapist and client, underpinning the claim that the most important is simply to get the client comfortable and in SE so that traumas may release naturally.

CBT is however highly effective for fixing high-level mindfucks or errors in the pure cognitive processing of reality by the higher brain parts. More basal and diffuse emotions like fight, flight or freeze states should be handled by the bodily techniques. Note the much higher resolution of the former than the latter, reflecting the much higher cognitive capacities of current humans vs primitive vertebrates.

On how traumas relate to AA:

Approach anxiety (AA) seems in my experience to be more or less synonymous with social anxiety. Hesitation to make approaches is not a single-cause phenomenon and it is possible to approach even when anxious. The absence of approach anxiety cannot therefore be defined simply as being able to approach, but rather absence of fear when approaching. TRE is extremely efficient to remove the actual fear of doing approaches and social anxiety in general.

There are other causes of hesitation to approach that TRE will not change, but these cannot be said to be anxiety-driven. Sometimes, making a smooth approach may be difficult due to club layout or dynamics, or you may be hesitating due to language barriers, or simply be in a very shitty mood. These are separate problems from anxiety. Likewise, being an introvert has nothing to do with anxiety, introverts are simply less interested in socializing with randoms.

There is a lot of confusion on this issue as non-traumatized guys are 100% unable to grasp the nature of guys with a visceral anxiety of approaching. Note also that pushing somebody with anxiety on the visceral level to approach is a totally horrible thing to do. You will essentially ping the trauma without providing a release valve due to the perceived non-safety of the situation and the person may become worse. The correct action here is to use TRE to remove a fair share of the anxiety and then, when going out later, get the person into good mood and somewhat sociable state in general. Berceli states in the video linked below that people in SE will socialize naturally, I can confirm that this is the case and I therefore oppose any claim that AA is somehow inevitable or hard-wired.

When the traumas are gone, training regimes such as mass approaching is appropriate. Attempting to mass-approach or go out every day before trauma levels are significantly down may cause worsening of the conditions or even burnout, this is something I have seen happen.

I recommend these two threads for further reading on these subjects:

Stages of Approach Abilities

Stages of Approach Abilities This is a draft. I want this to be a helpful article over time, please contribute. This article draws on information from Levine and Berceli, and makes assumptions that they’re right. I’m looking for more clearly defined stages and overall correctness. I hope this...

www.skilledseducer.com

Body-oriented therapy and its application to PU

This post will deal with various therapies that go further than cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT). You actually don't need to understand very much of the theory here to do the exercises, but I do provide a lot of theory as there are guys who are interested in a deeper understanding. I have...

www.skilledseducer.com

 

[Train]

I've done TRE for around two years and it's great for resolving trauma held in the body. I recommend the links Lofty posted above.

Basically my mind was ok with the concept of approaching but my body had a mind of its own and would freeze or "flee" when trying to approach.

Now I can approach much more easily with only mild initial mental hesitation that can be overcome easily by pushing through the first set. Previously this wouldn't really work before doing TRE while thinking about approaching.

I also recommend experimenting with EFT tapping. It's similarly helped me release trapped emotions like TRE has done. I just think about the trauma or fear in question and let myself voice or think whatever as I tap different points on my body. It's helped reach breakthroughs personally.

 

[Rakehell]

Yeah that’s sort of why I didn’t wanna bring aa up in the original post. Way too many variables on the causes of anxiety. There’s a difference between regular run of the mill anxiety hijacking and subconscious trauma.

To me normal aa is synonymous to riding rollercoasters and never really goes away. You might have that airy feeling in your chest and stomach but it subsides after that first ride. It’s more so excitement than anything.

It’s not something that you should let shut you down but should add to the enjoyment of the process. Plus it never really goes away. Sure it may not be a factor when high on momentum, but step away from approaching or socializing for a while and it’ll crop back up.