FR IG-Closed a hot travelling 23yo who is in an open relationship

[gameboy]

FIrst of all I'm happy to celebrate my first actual "close" from daygame with all of you. This is amazing! I started out with daygame just a couple of weeks ago, and I am already seeing the first results. Thanks mainly to GC, and the awesome community here on the forums. I don't think I could have made it this far, so quick, without your support. You guys rock

INTRO

Let me introduce myself first: I'm 49, slim, about 6' tall. I'm European but I don't live in my native country, I live in a different European country in a city near the sea. I have a "learning daygame" journal here. (You don't have to read the whole thing but the first post gives a bit more of my background.)

So today I was walking on the beach, as usual, and met a cute girl that was super open and happy to talk to me. We talked for about an hour, then walked along the beach together, and watched the sunset. She actually asked me for my IG before I could take her number, so I added her there. I'm planning to send an icebreaker text later tonight.

THE MEET

It was a cloudy, windy day, and she was sitting on the beach by herself with headphones in. As I walked past her and opened with my favorite opener (so far): "Hi!" (in the local language) She said hi back, I saw that she was quite pretty and seemed happy to be approached, so I stopped and asked "How's it going?" She said good, and took her headphones out (good sign!)

So I crouched next to her at first, then sat down later. (I've copied this move from other guys I saw approaching girls on the beach: First they crouch next to the girl, then as the conversation unfolds, they sit.) She said she had actually seen me on the beach before, as I was chatting with two girls the other day. I think she referred to the two exchange studente mentioned in this report, because she mentioned seeing dolphins and this was the only day I have ever seen dolphins here.

She asked "Oh, you remember the girls?" and I was like, yeah they were nice, some exchange students. I think this gave me some preselection, but not sure if it helped me that I mentioned that I actually rememered the interaction.

WHAT SHE'S LIKE

She's 23, of Asian decent, but lives another European country. I found her very cute, and made a lot of eye contact as we talked. This was easy because she had a cute face so I enjoyed looking at her I tried to listen to her and let her talk as much as possible, while looking at her in a sexy kind of way. No idea if I succeeded with being sexy haha, but I found it came to me naturally as just sitting and looking at her made me want more. You know what I mean

Physically, this girl is petite, smaller than me, with long straight black hair that was dyed red near the ends. She didn't give me too much eye contact back, she looked out at the ocean most of the time while talking, but when she looked at me she smiled and laughed a lot.

SHE MENTIONS HER BOYFRIEND AT HOME

I asked her what she does here. She is studying the local language and staying for 2 more weeks. She likes it much more here than in her home country, but she said it's too expensive to stay here for longer. I asked her if she lives with her parents, and she said no, I live with my boyfriend at home. But she is travelling solo and staying in a hostel. I stayed unfazed when she mentioned her boyfriend, although I thought about cutting the interaction short but fortunately I didn't. I was actually quite happy to be in her company. She was very open and funny and I enjoyed talking to her.

TOUCH

Throughout the interaction I touched her a lot, which she was receptive to. As in, she neither reacted positively nor negatively to my touch. She was happy to practice the local language with me, which I speak quite well. I touched her shoulder a lot, in a playful-comforting way when she sometimes struggled to express herself talking in the local language. I also teased her a bit and poked her in the leg at one point. She didn't seem to mind but also showed no visible signs of enjoying it.

SHE TELLS ME OF A SEXUAL ENCOUNTER SHE HAD A FEW DAYS AGO

She told me the day she first saw me on the beach, she later met an Italian guy who she went to the club with and partied all night, and she went to bed like at 6am. I asked her if she drank a lot, and she said yeah too much (I think). Then I asked "Any guys?" and she was like, just one, the Italian. I was like "Haha but you have a boyfriend? But it's OK we won't tell him" and she was like, oh it's an open relationship. I told her that's really cool, and she was like "Yeah only the people here think it's cool. My girlfriends at home don't think so" and then she told me that her boyfriend had slept with a female friend of hers, and how that was cool with her.

-- In retrospect, should I have asked her if the Italian guy was a good lover? I think this would have been a good move to sexualize the interaction more

I set the frame that being in an open relationship is great, you have to enjoy life and meet people and stuff. She asked me what about you, do you have a girlfriend? I answered that I'm single now. She was like "now? haha and before, and after?" I said "Maybe tomorrow I'll have a girlfriend, but now I don't haha. No it's cool, I'm just meeting people and having fun". -- I'm not sure here if I should have said I was single? But I don't think it hurt me much.

MOVED HER

We chatted a bit more, and at one point I suggested we walk along the beach. She was happy to comply. As I walked I made sure to touch her some more, she didn't seem to mind but again I found her strangely "indifferent" as in, my touch didn't seem to excite her either. I complimented her on her hair at one point, and touched her hair a lot. She was like thanks, but the dye is washing out and whatever. I said it still looks cool with the reddish-purplish strains near the tips of the hair.

WATCHING THE SUNSET

We went to a location to see the sunset, which was sepctacular today. We both took some pictures with our phones. She asked me if I had instagram, I said yes but I don't use it much. But I gave her my IG for her to add me. She found me and saw that I almost have no friends on IG, and mentioned "oh you have few people" and I said again, yeah because I don't use it much lol. Probably not a big deal but maybe I should have asked her for her phone number/whatsapp instead?

I told her we could grab a coffee some day and continue chatting. I think she said "sure" but it didn't sound enthusiastic to me, so I don't know if that's going to happen or not.

While looking at the sunset, at one point I put my arm around her and was like "let's have a romantic sunset" and she chuckled and said, "you're funny". But didn't react in any other way. I didn't feel the vibe was good enough to kiss her there and then, so I didn't. After half a minute or a minute maybe, she pulled back and took some more photos. --- I probably should have ended the embrace first? But I didn't think of it in time. My bad.

We talked about how it was getting cold, and she said she said she was prepared. She showed me how she was wearing leggins underneath her jeans, and the layers of clothes she was wearing below her sweater. I tried to playfully touch her waist while she did that but she kind of brushed my hand away. I laughed it off. No idea if it was a mistake doing this.

SAYING GOODBYE

Since she didn't comply with my touch I thought it's probably a good time to leave now. So I told her I have to go shopping, I actually needed to buy a heater and I told her that. She was like OK cool. I told her it was nice to meet her, and we hugged goodbye.

I walked off, then checked my IG and couldn't see her request. So I actually went back (maybe 2 minutes had passed) and saw her walking away. I called out to her and told her I didn't get her insta, so she took my phone and added herself there. We hugged goodbye a second time, I said "it's been a pleasure". After walking off, I texted her "Gotcha " and she wrote "perfect" back.

ICEBREAKER TEXT

I'm planning to send her an icebreaker text later tonight. My idea is: "I got a heater now. Although a human heating would be even better!" --- What do you guys think, is that too much/to direct?

OUTLOOK

I really enjoyed hanging out with this girl, I had a total blast with her on the beach even if nothing more comes of it.

I have no idea what my chances are of seeing her again, between her boyfriend and the other guy she mentioned. I'm cool if we never meet again, or we do meet and nothing happens or we become best buddies or whatever, but obviously she is hot so I wanna bang her haha. So how would you guys proceed with the texting?

Also, from my description of the interaction, what would you have done better/differently? Please critique away. There's probably loads of stuff that I could have done better. I might have como across too needy with putting my arm around her watching the sunset.

Nonetheless, I'm totally stoked about my first IG-Close from daygame! Feels like levelling up

 

[Higher]

No feedback from higher-ranked members, so ill give my humble 2c -- i dont really see myself as an expert here.

First off, well done! Any progress in this game feels grand.

she was sitting on the beach by herself with headphones in

Personally, id read this as a warning sign.

Sounds like she was minding her own business and not really ready to be approached. This might change in set of course, but it always feels like a struggle to me. Maybe its just me tho.

If i really wanted to give it a shot, id sit at a distance from her and mind my own business, and yet keep track of her with my peripheral vision, kinda like staring at a distance, absorbed in my thoughts. This would basically be a waiting game for me, as id only make a move if she gave me any signs of interest. Not something that i do often nowadays.

Otherwise id just keep walking. Maybe id smile at her en passant and circle back if she seems open to meet, but in general id be set to meet other girls instead.

She said she had actually seen me on the beach before, as I was chatting with two girls the other day.

I suspect this might damage you.

Approaching as many girls as possible is good when starting out for a number of reasons -- conquer AA, learn how to read girls, train your fortitude, etc.

However, if a number of girls see you doing it, they might look at you like youd probably look at a beggar.

Id frequently change area, possibly city/town. Also to expose yourself to new situations -- eg. public transport, other parts of town. This would almost make you feel like youre exploring the world and not really looking to meet girls.

I know you just started out, so i see why you do this and its good. Id only suggest: try to challenge yourself even more.

she looked out at the ocean most of the time while talking

She didn't seem to mind but also showed no visible signs of enjoying it.

Id perceive these as signs of dismissal/disinterest.

maybe I should have asked her for her phone number/whatsapp instead?

Yeah. A girl complying to a phone number request would be in my eyes more invested than a girl giving IG -- even a younger, 20ish y-o girl.

I called out to her and told her I didn't get her insta

To me she seems really aloof and not matching your level of interest/investment.

--

Man, overall good shot! This one girl was probably not interested right from the start. No big deal. We gotta approach these ones too if we wanna learn, plus theres always one interested girl right around the corner.

Keep up!
-en

 

[gameboy]

Oh no, she was super into it! I could tell she was enjoying talking to me. Even as I said hi, she turned her body towards me and took her headphones out.

She really seemed interested practicing the local language, which I was happy to help her with. i probably didnt do enough to sexualize the interaction. In retrospect I should have focussed a lot more on talking about open relationships and how it gives you the freedom to have fun with exciting new people etc.

She may not have been all that interested in something sexual though. Given that she had a bf, had just had an encounter with the Italian she met on the beach, and was staying in a hostel where there's probably an ample supply of guys closer to her age trying to get laid...

I agree I should have asked for her phone number instead. i hate instagram anyway, I mean who can deal with that crappy user interface? It seems to be what the younger generation is doing though. Myself I am from the Facebook age, stone age of the internet haha

Anyway this was my best experience so far. One realization i am having is that women love to talk. You just have to let them.

Gonna write more later, I'm going out right now to give some cute girls the opportunity to talk to me

 

[gameboy]

If i really wanted to give it a shot, id sit at a distance from her and mind my own business, and yet keep track of her with my peripheral vision, kinda like staring at a distance, absorbed in my thoughts. This would basically be a waiting game for me, as id only make a move if she gave me any signs of interest. Not something that i do often nowadays.

That's what I did for the last 20 years, with zero results... except that the girls sometimes got annoyed and walked away lol

(of course I was in relationships for about 50% of those 20 years, so it wasn't all bad. But as for cold approaching, it used to be impossible for me)

However, if a number of girls see you doing it, they might look at you like youd probably look at a beggar.

Well that would be the case if she saw me getting rejected left and right. But with the girls she mentioned I actually had a pretty good interaction, and they still say hi to me when I come across them on the beach. The way she said it, it sounded like it was a positive thing for her having seen me talking to those girls.

She seemed surprised at the fact I remembered them though. As in, "Oh you speak to so few girls that you actually remember those?" lol

At least that's what it felt like, I could be wrong though as I can't read her mind haha

Id frequently change area, possibly city/town. Also to expose yourself to new situations -- eg. public transport, other parts of town. This would almost make you feel like youre exploring the world and not really looking to meet girls.

I know you just started out, so i see why you do this and its good. Id only suggest: try to challenge yourself even more.

This game is quite challenging as it is already! Haha

I'd love to try it out in different towns too though. So I will take that into consideration, thanks for the suggestion!

I'm not at all worried though about people seeing me talking to girls. Quite the contrary! I'm becoming a much more sociable person and I'm loving it. I mean I've always liked to talk to people, but I never dared to approach the girls I like best. That's what I love about daygame

To me she seems really aloof and not matching your level of interest/investment.

I didn't get that idea at all, otherwise I don't think we would have chatted for that long and walked around the beach together. She was actually smiling and laughing pretty much all the time as we talked.

I *think* it all went to shit was when I put my arm around her during the sunset. I left it there for too long, and she actually extracted herself from my embrace. I got the impression that the vibe was different afterwards.

Or maybe before, when she saw I have few instagram friends? Doesn't make sense though because I had a good reason (I told her I never use it)

Or maybe it was something else entirely. Who knows.

Man, overall good shot! This one girl was probably not interested right from the start. No big deal. We gotta approach these ones too if we wanna learn, plus theres always one interested girl right around the corner.

Keep up!
-en

Thank you so much Enki for weighing in! It's always good to have feedback and to discuss different perspectives!

EDIT: I think I know what you mean now. You mean she wasn't interested in sex, right? Yeah that seems pretty obvious in retrospect. She was interested in talking to me only. Which was fine! I had a great experience, and it motivated me to go and approach lots more girls. I was a bit disappointed not to hear back from her but whatever. Plenty of fish in the sea.

 

[Higher]

EDIT: I think I know what you mean now. You mean she wasn't interested in sex, right? Yeah that seems pretty obvious in retrospect. She was interested in talking to me only. Which was fine! I had a great experience, and it motivated me to go and approach lots more girls. I was a bit disappointed not to hear back from her but whatever. Plenty of fish in the sea.

Exactly, 100% what i meant.

-en

 

[Beck Bass]

Great work @gameboy, that approach was really good!

I agree with @Enki, that she probably wasn't all that interested right away, sexually, but Asian girls in general barely show signs of sexual interest (they are way more subtle, kinda on a "repressed sexually" type of way. I could say most don't have that much sexual experience, but that would be extrapolating too much).

If I was on your shoes, I would have tried to pull her, regardless. If she really wasn't interested, she would make that very clear. Of course you gotta ask her in the right way, ideally on a high point of the conversation, while she's laughing, and you go kinda working your way towards it during the conversation, making it more sexual and like "casual fun", and then give her some pretense to come with you to another place. I also feel like you didn't get a whole lot of compliance from her, you mention touching, but sometimes moving the girl or asking for something is important as well, specially if the girl isn't quite reacting to your touch (maybe you could ask her to finish this conversation elsewhere, like in a bar, and see if she follows you).

The IG stuff, I think it's best not to use Instagram, unless you have a nice profile, and what that is, as far as getting girls, I'm not even sure what it is (I think it depends a lot on the type of girl and your style, what she would want/expect tour IG to look like). I think it's best to tell girls you don't have it, I got numbers of lots of girls when I didn't have IG or Facebook, and the few that I had on those social networks, generally wouldn't go too far (other than the time I had a really crazy sexual Instagram profile, but even that was very polarizing to girls, obviously, a few would block me like right away lol).

But congratz on making such a good approach, you really had a chance with this girl, I think, maybe if you sticked around longer or tried to move her you would be surprised at what could have happened. Good luck on the next ones!

 

[StrayDog]

I wouldn't get to hung up on the details of each moment here and instead look at the broad strokes to see what is missing. @Beck Bass mentioned it, but I'm gonna break it down for you

Compliance and Touch
Yes, you got her to go walk with you, and that is compliance. But it is only one piece of compliance right in the middle of the seduction. It is the only moment where she is really explicitly investing in the interaction, and it may appear to be a large investment. However, she is only investing in continuing the interaction, not in the frame work for seduction. This is true too for the fact that she sat and talked wit you for so long. One could argue that this is investment on her part, and yes it may appear that way on the surface. However, she is simply investing in a conversation, she is not necessarily investing in the frame work for seduction.

Here's the thing, you kept moving things forward before she properly invested each step of the way. For example, you are talking to her and then decide to crouch next to her as a means of continuing the conversation. This is all good and well, except what reason did she give you to crouch? You just crouched so as to continue the conversation. Sure it was effective in that much, but you should have compelled her to invest in the seduction and then crouched for good reason. Or better yet, just sat next to her.

How would you do this exactly? Ask for compliance. Start small and build. Pretty soon after opening find a reason to ask for compliance. Ask to see a piece of jewelry or hand you something. Or comment on something she said or did and ask her to do it again (often times when a girl is standing in a confident posture I'll say "wait let's see that power stance again"). Start small and build from there. Then once she gives a large piece of investment, or she has given enough small pieces that add up, move things forward.

So in this instance, maybe I would have told her to show me some photos on her phone. Once she agrees and starts pulling them up, I sit down on the bench next to her. I have created a good reason to get closer, and she complied so I reward it. Wash rinse and repeat.

Set a presedence of comply reward comply reward, and keep escalating.

This way the dynamic needed for you to lead the seduction is set early and built upon as things unfold.

When it comes to touch you are giving it away too freely. This is why she was indifferent to it after you moved her. It felt obvious and common place. There was no tension to it. You were rewarding her with your attention for no good reason. Just because she decided to walk with you? Well sure, reward her a bit. But Make her work for the next moment. And the next. And the next. Don't just keep giving it away thinking that will turn her on.

As a beginner it can be good going for touch, just to show yourself you can do it. But understand that touch ultimately needs to used strategically, and given out at key moments of compliance to build tension.

By the time you two are on the bench you are just kind of smothering her in it by putting your arm around her. This would only make sense if there has been a real momentum leading up to that moment that would make sense to escalate into second gen sex talk/touch Then pull to an escalation place where you can fuck.

In this case however there was no really momentum, and also no clear path forward to where you would go fuck.

She already had a fling the night before, so unless the chemistry was total fire, her buying temperature is gonna be low.

What is she gonna do with you, just make out on this bench. And then what?

Pace the interaction with comply-reward. Slowly build the sexual frames. Gather logistics early, and play to those logistics.

Give her a sense of where things are headed and a good reason to go there.

Seed the pull. That is, plant the idea in her head early of where you two might go next. "Oh yeah, there's a lot of great night life in this town, but I discovered total hidden gem of cocktail bar..." "I've have been learning to make a killer cocktail, Its actually way more challenging than you'd think". Then later in the interaction you can go "well hey this is actually super refreshing spending time. What if we kept it going" and then you suggest one of the ideas you seeded that she seemed to bite on earlier. Some excuse to pull.

9 out of 10 times if you have been deep in a set, moved the girl, spent a bunch of time with her, and there is no real constraint as to why you two wouldn't keep hanging (like she has to go to work, or meet her mom) when you grab her contact info it will be a dud. You already had your shot and you missed it.

So yeah, good job over all here, just be more calculating. Gather logistics early, and seed the pull. But most of all ask for compliance and only really move things forward when she invests in the interaction. Comply reward, comply reward. This goes for your touch. Don't just lavish her in it for no good reason.

 

[gameboy]

Thanks for the advice guys! Now you say it, I should probably have kept going instead of ending the interaction when I did. Next time I will be more flexible with my plans.

I mean i could probably have walked with her at least to the city center, then asked her if she wants to go for a bite close to my place, maybe lead her to a place that's too packed/closed/too empty lol, and then said hey I live over there, wanna see it?

Also very intersting point on using touch as a reward. But hey this was my first major interaction with a hot girl in ages without paying for it, so I just couldn't keep my hands of her haha! I was kind of expecting her to get turned on by it but it didn't work out, oh well she had been with a guy some days before so that's probably why. She wasn't hungry for it, at all. But she might have been down regardless.

So I ejected too soon again huh? I guess you guys are right.

You know what, I'm gonna send her a hail mary text on IG just to see if she's down to hang out one of these days. She needs to practice the local language with someone after all!

 

[gameboy]

As for crouching, it was because she was sitting on the floor. It was on the beach, after all. It would have been awkward to stand next to her and talk down to her for too long.

I crouched for half a minute or so, then when it was clear she was hooked, I sat next to her. I think I handled at least that part pretty smoothly.

I probably need better calibration on using touch though. Using touch as a reward sounds intriguing. You probably mean as in hugging her and putting my arm around her shoulders, right?

Because no touch at all wouldn't be conducive to a seduction either.

 

[StrayDog]

As for crouching, it was because she was sitting on the floor. It was on the beach, after all. It would have been awkward to stand next to her and talk down to her for too long.

I crouched for half a minute or so, then when it was clear she was hooked, I sat next to her. I think I handled at least that part pretty smoothly.

Again, I am not being prescriptive for each moment here. But offering instead a bigger picture strategy that could help with results.

What seems more conducive to leading an interaction towards seduction. Sitting next to a women when it seems that she would allow it. Or setting a precedent of her doing what you ask when you ask? So it's not a question of should you have crouched or not. But rather what else could you have done to set up the right frame work to move things forward.

If she was indeed hooked in that moment (crouching or not crouching) why not ask for a small bit of compliance? If she complies then you make a calibrated move forward. If she doesn't you either made too big of an ask for where things were at, or she wasn't as hooked as you thought. When you test for compliance it allows you to see how invested she truly is. Asking her to show you a piece of jewelry or photos on her phone or hand you something she is looking at, or even "tell me more about your travels" (note you are telling her to "tell me", if she starts to tell you she is complying).

you: Tell me about your travels more. I'm gonna take a seat real quick

her: Okay. Well I was just in blah blah blah

You: (sit down and reward her compliance with a bit of undivided attention.) wow fascinating, that must have been real learning experience.

Then right before the intensity of your attention would ware thin back off, lead the conversation else where, test for compliance again, wash rinse repeat. Slowly escalate compliance each time until it makes sense to move things at a high point.

This is why you test for compliance as soon as possible. Sometimes it takes a moment, sometimes you can do it right away. I often encounter women smelling scented candles at the store. I open them with "I can tell you are thinking hard about this decision" when they laugh and engage me I ask for compliance "here let me see" ( reaching my hand out for the candle) then I reward her for complying with maybe a genuine compliment, or just more focused attention "hey you seem pretty cool, what's your name". Shake hands (break the touch barrier). And so on.

Plant seeds early of a dynamic that is conducive to seduction and "let me see that ring you're wearing" turns into "imma grab your number, put that in here" (handing her your phone) or even "Show me what you can do with that cock"

I probably need better calibration on using touch though. Using touch as a reward sounds intriguing. You probably mean as in hugging her and putting my arm around her shoulders, right?

Because no touch at all wouldn't be conducive to a seduction either.

It's not just touch you can use as a reward it can be a compliment, or just your focused attention.
You rewarding her showing you a piece of her jewelry can be "you clearly have a knack for finding hidden treasure" as much as it can be touching her hand to look the ring. Or hey, why not both?

But yes, at least when you are starting out, use touch more sparingly and use it as a strategic tool towards a meaningful escalation. When you do touch make it at meaningful moments. For example you tell her to scoot closer so you can see the photos she is showing "what are you doing all the way over there" as you pat the seat next to you. Then she scoots over and you rub her shoulders "good to see you (looking in her eyes). Alright show me what you got (pointing to her phone)"

Do not linger and do not use touch after every bit of compliance (no need to reward after every minute moment of investment). Use it at meaningful moments that really move the seduction forward.

You can up the touching the closer momentum has built to actually pulling, but reserve any major escalation for when you are in a proper location.

If you are setting solid frames along the way, and she is investing more and more, plus physical touch is building in a natural way. By the time you you are at an escalation location, it will feel like a natural reasonable continuation of what has been building since the moment you met.

 

[StrayDog]

Also, this might be a tangent for another time. But just know that if she doesn't comply with a request at any given moment, that doesn't necessarily (sometimes maybe) mean that the seduction is done for, just that you need to adjust. But now you have a sense of where her level of compliance (investment) is at

 

[StrayDog]

I mean i could probably have walked with her at least to the city center, then asked her if she wants to go for a bite close to my place, maybe lead her to a place that's too packed/closed/too empty lol, and then said hey I live over there, wanna see it?

This is precisely why you need to run logistics in your mind, and have a solid sense of where you can take things. That way you are not left in a lurch scrambling where to take things next.

With proper compliance, reasonable logistics, and good plausible deniability you don't really need to pull these bait and switch tactics you suggested here "oops they are too packed" (this can actually backfire)

Come up with a reasonable logistic pipeline based around your area. basically think 2 to 3 bounces from where you meet her. Locations where you can deepen the sense of chemistry, really build momentum, . Locations where you can build deeper into intimacy and sex talk. And finally, where ever you intend to escalate (your apartment, or some secluded yet reasonable spot to fuck).

If you are going day game Insta dates there is often a number of impromptu logical problems you have to solve. So the more you know the area the more options you have to work with.

Good locations for the first bounce are quiet cafes, book stores, low key bars, parks, food trucks and so on. Places that are reasonable place to go to with a stranger, and enough of a location change from where you just met her that it feels like a solid investment in the interaction. Also make sure they are casual places where you wont get caught up in something for like and hour, making it hard to pull (I.e. restaurants). You also want them to be no more than 10-15 (15 is maybe pushing it) minutes away from where intend to escalate.

When you seed a number of pull ideas early on in the interaction, you then have options when it comes time to bounce. You can propose an idea that she will find reasonable, and give her plausible deniability. "it was only gonna be one drink with him" "he was only gonna show me his art."

Now, sometimes things are going so well you can skip a step and pull straight to your house. Or other times you have to add a small detour before the momentum is there. So be flexible. But definitely don't get caught in "uh-oh I don't know where to lead things next" moments. Always have a sense of where things are going.

This allows you to pace things. The typical Insta date seduction should last anywhere from 30 mins to two hours (meet to escalation). This will give you a basic sense of what the pacing should look like. Obviously a number of factors play into how it all fluffs out. But just have a sense of okay this seems like a good time to move things forward (not in terms of minutes, but where the the momentum is at). Quickest I think I met a gal and went to bed with her was maybe about 30 minutes. But then again I have had instant dates that last about 2 hours.

-meet to first bounce (somewhere to deepen connection). 10-15 minutes in

-deepen connection/build momentum at second location till next bounce. About 20-40 minutes (don't linger too long if you sense an escalation window)

-run second gen (this can be at the same location you were just at, or sometimes you need to move the interaction, someplace intimate but right on the way to your house (escalation point). I wouldn't over do this sometimes 5 minutes of second gen is enough, sometimes a bit more. But yeah 5-10 minutes.

-Move to escalation point. Unless the momentum is rolling thunder, don't just jump in. Tease the moment, then shoot your shot.

There are a lot of elements to consider when seducing. That's why you gotta plant the seeds early, in small ways and keep building on them. Ask for compliance early, get logistics early, set small but powerful frames early, introduce lightly sensual yet stimulating topics early. Fractionate everything, circle back and build it up more. Wash rinse and repeat.

Always have a sense of where you are going and pave the road as you move along.

 

[Will_V]

FIrst of all I'm happy to celebrate my first actual "close" from daygame with all of you. This is amazing! I started out with daygame just a couple of weeks ago, and I am already seeing the first results. Thanks mainly to GC, and the awesome community here on the forums. I don't think I could have made it this far, so quick, without your support. You guys rock

INTRO

Let me introduce myself first: I'm 49, slim, about 6' tall. I'm European but I don't live in my native country, I live in a different European country in a city near the sea. I have a "learning daygame" journal here. (You don't have to read the whole thing but the first post gives a bit more of my background.)

So today I was walking on the beach, as usual, and met a cute girl that was super open and happy to talk to me. We talked for about an hour, then walked along the beach together, and watched the sunset. She actually asked me for my IG before I could take her number, so I added her there. I'm planning to send an icebreaker text later tonight.

THE MEET

It was a cloudy, windy day, and she was sitting on the beach by herself with headphones in. As I walked past her and opened with my favorite opener (so far): "Hi!" (in the local language) She said hi back, I saw that she was quite pretty and seemed happy to be approached, so I stopped and asked "How's it going?" She said good, and took her headphones out (good sign!)

So I crouched next to her at first, then sat down later. (I've copied this move from other guys I saw approaching girls on the beach: First they crouch next to the girl, then as the conversation unfolds, they sit.) She said she had actually seen me on the beach before, as I was chatting with two girls the other day. I think she referred to the two exchange studente mentioned in this report, because she mentioned seeing dolphins and this was the only day I have ever seen dolphins here.

She asked "Oh, you remember the girls?" and I was like, yeah they were nice, some exchange students. I think this gave me some preselection, but not sure if it helped me that I mentioned that I actually rememered the interaction.

WHAT SHE'S LIKE

She's 23, of Asian decent, but lives another European country. I found her very cute, and made a lot of eye contact as we talked. This was easy because she had a cute face so I enjoyed looking at her I tried to listen to her and let her talk as much as possible, while looking at her in a sexy kind of way. No idea if I succeeded with being sexy haha, but I found it came to me naturally as just sitting and looking at her made me want more. You know what I mean

Physically, this girl is petite, smaller than me, with long straight black hair that was dyed red near the ends. She didn't give me too much eye contact back, she looked out at the ocean most of the time while talking, but when she looked at me she smiled and laughed a lot.

SHE MENTIONS HER BOYFRIEND AT HOME

I asked her what she does here. She is studying the local language and staying for 2 more weeks. She likes it much more here than in her home country, but she said it's too expensive to stay here for longer. I asked her if she lives with her parents, and she said no, I live with my boyfriend at home. But she is travelling solo and staying in a hostel. I stayed unfazed when she mentioned her boyfriend, although I thought about cutting the interaction short but fortunately I didn't. I was actually quite happy to be in her company. She was very open and funny and I enjoyed talking to her.

TOUCH

Throughout the interaction I touched her a lot, which she was receptive to. As in, she neither reacted positively nor negatively to my touch. She was happy to practice the local language with me, which I speak quite well. I touched her shoulder a lot, in a playful-comforting way when she sometimes struggled to express herself talking in the local language. I also teased her a bit and poked her in the leg at one point. She didn't seem to mind but also showed no visible signs of enjoying it.

SHE TELLS ME OF A SEXUAL ENCOUNTER SHE HAD A FEW DAYS AGO

She told me the day she first saw me on the beach, she later met an Italian guy who she went to the club with and partied all night, and she went to bed like at 6am. I asked her if she drank a lot, and she said yeah too much (I think). Then I asked "Any guys?" and she was like, just one, the Italian. I was like "Haha but you have a boyfriend? But it's OK we won't tell him" and she was like, oh it's an open relationship. I told her that's really cool, and she was like "Yeah only the people here think it's cool. My girlfriends at home don't think so" and then she told me that her boyfriend had slept with a female friend of hers, and how that was cool with her.

-- In retrospect, should I have asked her if the Italian guy was a good lover? I think this would have been a good move to sexualize the interaction more

I set the frame that being in an open relationship is great, you have to enjoy life and meet people and stuff. She asked me what about you, do you have a girlfriend? I answered that I'm single now. She was like "now? haha and before, and after?" I said "Maybe tomorrow I'll have a girlfriend, but now I don't haha. No it's cool, I'm just meeting people and having fun". -- I'm not sure here if I should have said I was single? But I don't think it hurt me much.

MOVED HER

We chatted a bit more, and at one point I suggested we walk along the beach. She was happy to comply. As I walked I made sure to touch her some more, she didn't seem to mind but again I found her strangely "indifferent" as in, my touch didn't seem to excite her either. I complimented her on her hair at one point, and touched her hair a lot. She was like thanks, but the dye is washing out and whatever. I said it still looks cool with the reddish-purplish strains near the tips of the hair.

WATCHING THE SUNSET

We went to a location to see the sunset, which was sepctacular today. We both took some pictures with our phones. She asked me if I had instagram, I said yes but I don't use it much. But I gave her my IG for her to add me. She found me and saw that I almost have no friends on IG, and mentioned "oh you have few people" and I said again, yeah because I don't use it much lol. Probably not a big deal but maybe I should have asked her for her phone number/whatsapp instead?

I told her we could grab a coffee some day and continue chatting. I think she said "sure" but it didn't sound enthusiastic to me, so I don't know if that's going to happen or not.

While looking at the sunset, at one point I put my arm around her and was like "let's have a romantic sunset" and she chuckled and said, "you're funny". But didn't react in any other way. I didn't feel the vibe was good enough to kiss her there and then, so I didn't. After half a minute or a minute maybe, she pulled back and took some more photos. --- I probably should have ended the embrace first? But I didn't think of it in time. My bad.

We talked about how it was getting cold, and she said she said she was prepared. She showed me how she was wearing leggins underneath her jeans, and the layers of clothes she was wearing below her sweater. I tried to playfully touch her waist while she did that but she kind of brushed my hand away. I laughed it off. No idea if it was a mistake doing this.

SAYING GOODBYE

Since she didn't comply with my touch I thought it's probably a good time to leave now. So I told her I have to go shopping, I actually needed to buy a heater and I told her that. She was like OK cool. I told her it was nice to meet her, and we hugged goodbye.

I walked off, then checked my IG and couldn't see her request. So I actually went back (maybe 2 minutes had passed) and saw her walking away. I called out to her and told her I didn't get her insta, so she took my phone and added herself there. We hugged goodbye a second time, I said "it's been a pleasure". After walking off, I texted her "Gotcha " and she wrote "perfect" back.

ICEBREAKER TEXT

I'm planning to send her an icebreaker text later tonight. My idea is: "I got a heater now. Although a human heating would be even better!" --- What do you guys think, is that too much/to direct?

OUTLOOK

I really enjoyed hanging out with this girl, I had a total blast with her on the beach even if nothing more comes of it.

I have no idea what my chances are of seeing her again, between her boyfriend and the other guy she mentioned. I'm cool if we never meet again, or we do meet and nothing happens or we become best buddies or whatever, but obviously she is hot so I wanna bang her haha. So how would you guys proceed with the texting?

Also, from my description of the interaction, what would you have done better/differently? Please critique away. There's probably loads of stuff that I could have done better. I might have como across too needy with putting my arm around her watching the sunset.

Nonetheless, I'm totally stoked about my first IG-Close from daygame! Feels like levelling up

Well done on getting out there and shooting your shots!

The issue here was frame control and adapting it to the situation. When you have a girl who is clearly having emotional issues with her boyfriend (I mean she doesn't sound like she's particularly happy with or in control of this 'open' relationship) you can't just come in like you would for a girl that's single and present yourself as just another viable option. Too much of her emotion is tangled up with him, the relationship, her own actions inside and out of that relationship and the positions she's put herself in, etc etc.

Her boyfriend has her emotional dependency. The italian dude was a quick outlet of sex for her. What you are to her is someone she can express herself to honestly, which neither of those two are available for. So that's why she's happy to talk to you and let it all out while staring at the sun.

Reason why she didn't respond too much physically is that her emotions are tied up in what she's got going on in her life. She can only feel turned on when whatever's on her mind isn't pressuring her. Letting her talk is a good way to release that pressure, but your frame was not strong enough for her to submit to it and let go completely. Your comments about the open relationship probably made her wonder if you were judging her, and the romantic sunset stuff just didn't give her a clear idea of what you were looking for - she knows you're out there chatting up girls but you probably don't come across as someone too experienced (that's fine we've all been there, it probably ended up intriguing her a bit and maybe even worked in your favor to some extent).

The way I reckon would work best is to take a more dominant, leading frame while continuing to deep dive her and let her express herself, build up a much stronger vibe that she can release herself into. She has the boyfriend. She's has partying italian dudes on the side. But what she doesn't have is being able to submit to an exciting experience with someone who takes her by the hand and carries her off on adventure. Nothing flash, just spontaneous little things, great conversation, and as the vibe builds up start getting physical with her in a fairly dominant way. What she needs right now is something that feels a little more like a whirlwind romance. She wants to be painted like one of your french girls. She wants to remember what her dreams about meeting guys were like before she got all tangled up in open relationships and drunk sex.

 

[gameboy]

Wow, thanks for all your different persepectives guys!

Personally I'm used to running my seductions more or less winging it. I don't usually have a strategy except try to meet in a place near mine, flirt with her a lot, touch her a lot, and see if she's dtf. I'm looking forward to implementing all the things I'm learning from you guys here.

For this approach, I think it all comes down to having ejected too early and not trying to escalate more. Your replies made me realize that.

Being new to cold approach, I was already beyond my wildest expectations having a flirty chat with a hot girl less than half my age, for over an hour and taking her for a walk around the beach. On previous approaches I was so nervous that I had to eject after like 1 minute maximum... even if the girl didn't give any signs of rejecting me.

But this time I was totally cool. I think it's a matter of getting used to being in situtations like this. Cold approach is very new for me still, but I'm loving it.

Also, I didn't get the impression that she was unhappy with her bf. It would have been worth finding out how she felt about him sleeping with a friend of hers for sure! An open relationship sounds like a juicy topic to chat about. And it's definitely a good idea to find out what her emotional needs are, and adjust accordingly.

(But she did seem unhappy about living where she lives, and would prefer to live here. However it's too expensive for her. I told her she can stay with me, but she just laughed and I then walked it back saying "just kidding" but I wanted to seed the idea)

Anyway I shot her a text this morning and we will see if she replies. But now it's time to go out, meet more girls and have fun

 

[StrayDog]

Wow, thanks for all your different persepectives guys!

Personally I'm used to running my seductions more or less winging it. I don't usually have a strategy except try to meet in a place near mine, flirt with her a lot, touch her a lot, and see if she's dtf. I'm looking forward to implementing all the things I'm learning from you guys here.

For this approach, I think it all comes down to having ejected too early and not trying to escalate more. Your replies made me realize that.

Being new to cold approach, I was already beyond my wildest expectations having a flirty chat with a hot girl less than half my age, for over an hour and taking her for a walk around the beach. On previous approaches I was so nervous that I had to eject after like 1 minute maximum... even if the girl didn't give any signs of rejecting me.

But this time I was totally cool. I think it's a matter of getting used to being in situtations like this. Cold approach is very new for me still, but I'm loving it.

Also, I didn't get the impression that she was unhappy with her bf. It would have been worth finding out how she felt about him sleeping with a friend of hers for sure! An open relationship sounds like a juicy topic to chat about. And it's definitely a good idea to find out what her emotional needs are, and adjust accordingly.

(But she did seem unhappy about living where she lives, and would prefer to live here. However it's too expensive for her.

Gathering logistics. Emotional logistics as well. @Will_V is spot on with his assessment that what she needs is a that whirlwind romance feeling, and to get there you have to be a sort of embodied anecdote to the reality of her situation.

At its core, beyond all of the technical maneuvers, Seduction is an art of emotion and psychology. It is about connection, and intimacy.

I told her she can stay with me, but she just laughed and I then walked it back saying "just kidding" but I wanted to seed the idea)

could have used a playful chase frame instead of just walking it back. I use it all the time basically propose some absurd level of investment for two people who just met and then be like "Just kidding Don't get any wild ideas here. We just met"

It's a fun way of acknowledging that your proposal was a bit much, but then implying that she is the one who will get carried away. Its tongue in cheek. You gotta deliver it with a touch of deadpan. Often builds a little sexual tension, after the release of tension that the humor provided.

Anyway I shot her a text this morning and we will see if she replies. But now it's time to go out, meet more girls and have fun

You sir, have a wonderful upbeat attitude. Just the sort of mindset you need to get good at this whole seduction thing.

 

[Will_V]

Anyway I shot her a text this morning and we will see if she replies. But now it's time to go out, meet more girls and have fun

That's the way to go!

It sounds to me like she was not so much unhappy per se but lost and unfulfilled. She's out travelling solo, partying with random dudes with her boyfriend out the picture .. she's looking for something she hasn't got.

Girls who are unreactive to physical escalation, as in not refusing but not responding, in my experience are typically conflicted at the core with their identity.

Anyways, hope that helps a little.

 

[StrayDog]

For this approach, I think it all comes down to having ejected too early and not trying to escalate more. Your replies made me realize that.

This is somewhat accurate, and I agree you should have stayed longer, but instead of escalate more I might say get her to buy into each moment of escalation more. You were actually escalating a great deal with all the touching. You were just escalating beyond where her investment was.

You can get her to buy in to each moment by testing compliance, and as @Will_V mentioned, getting to her emotional core. Actually compelling her on a deeper level to invest. Then compliance testing allows you to have a direct assessment of how invested she is in that moment.

 

[OldGuy]

There is nothing wrong with remembering the two students, she remembered them! That shows she had a lot of interest in you.

 

[Will_V]

@gameboy since you seem focused on learning in general I'll just give a few more tips on the approach.

It was a cloudy, windy day, and she was sitting on the beach by herself with headphones in. As I walked past her and opened with my favorite opener (so far): "Hi!" (in the local language) She said hi back, I saw that she was quite pretty and seemed happy to be approached, so I stopped and asked "How's it going?" She said good, and took her headphones out (good sign!)

Always good to notice her reactions at each step and calibrate to them which you did here. The first compliance she showed was immediate.

So I crouched next to her at first, then sat down later. (I've copied this move from other guys I saw approaching girls on the beach: First they crouch next to the girl, then as the conversation unfolds, they sit.)

Yes I do the same in the park near where I live if she's sitting or lying down in the grass. Always makes her feel tense if there's a random dude standing over her while she's craning her neck up at him.

She said she had actually seen me on the beach before, as I was chatting with two girls the other day. I think she referred to the two exchange studente mentioned in this report, because she mentioned seeing dolphins and this was the only day I have ever seen dolphins here.

She asked "Oh, you remember the girls?" and I was like, yeah they were nice, some exchange students. I think this gave me some preselection, but not sure if it helped me that I mentioned that I actually rememered the interaction.

Not bad, I would probably have said 'yeah someone I knew' and left it at that, changing the topic. I don't think it gives preselection to be known to be chatting up other girls in the area, unless she's super open to the whole idea of daygame.

WHAT SHE'S LIKE

She's 23, of Asian decent, but lives another European country. I found her very cute, and made a lot of eye contact as we talked. This was easy because she had a cute face so I enjoyed looking at her I tried to listen to her and let her talk as much as possible, while looking at her in a sexy kind of way. No idea if I succeeded with being sexy haha, but I found it came to me naturally as just sitting and looking at her made me want more. You know what I mean

Physically, this girl is petite, smaller than me, with long straight black hair that was dyed red near the ends. She didn't give me too much eye contact back, she looked out at the ocean most of the time while talking, but when she looked at me she smiled and laughed a lot.

It's a good sign. When a girl doesn't make a lot of eye contact but is having fun, she's definitely feeling submissive and that tells you that you can and should lead more.

SHE MENTIONS HER BOYFRIEND AT HOME

I asked her what she does here. She is studying the local language and staying for 2 more weeks. She likes it much more here than in her home country, but she said it's too expensive to stay here for longer. I asked her if she lives with her parents, and she said no, I live with my boyfriend at home. But she is travelling solo and staying in a hostel. I stayed unfazed when she mentioned her boyfriend, although I thought about cutting the interaction short but fortunately I didn't. I was actually quite happy to be in her company. She was very open and funny and I enjoyed talking to her.

Already covered this in my other post, but basically comes across to me like she's looking for a new chapter in her life, girls (especially submissive ones like her) don't go travelling solo away from the boyfriend unless she's looking for a change.

TOUCH

Throughout the interaction I touched her a lot, which she was receptive to. As in, she neither reacted positively nor negatively to my touch. She was happy to practice the local language with me, which I speak quite well. I touched her shoulder a lot, in a playful-comforting way when she sometimes struggled to express herself talking in the local language. I also teased her a bit and poked her in the leg at one point. She didn't seem to mind but also showed no visible signs of enjoying it.

Since she's submissive teasing her is less useful and probably more dominant/commanding touch would have been better, for example you could comment on something in the scenery and put your hand on her back as you point, and then run your hand up or down a bit before removing it, etc. When a girls in a submissive state, very marginal touch such as poking every now and then is just not going to feel satisfying for her.

SHE TELLS ME OF A SEXUAL ENCOUNTER SHE HAD A FEW DAYS AGO

She told me the day she first saw me on the beach, she later met an Italian guy who she went to the club with and partied all night, and she went to bed like at 6am. I asked her if she drank a lot, and she said yeah too much (I think). Then I asked "Any guys?" and she was like, just one, the Italian. I was like "Haha but you have a boyfriend? But it's OK we won't tell him" and she was like, oh it's an open relationship. I told her that's really cool, and she was like "Yeah only the people here think it's cool. My girlfriends at home don't think so" and then she told me that her boyfriend had slept with a female friend of hers, and how that was cool with her.

She's talking about sex, seems like she volunteered the info here? That means she's thinking about sex or intimacy in some way. This would have been a good time to set the frame that girls should be able to do what they want without judgement etc etc and start getting her to open up more.

-- In retrospect, should I have asked her if the Italian guy was a good lover? I think this would have been a good move to sexualize the interaction more

No, the focus should be on her and what she wants, not the italian guy.

I set the frame that being in an open relationship is great, you have to enjoy life and meet people and stuff. She asked me what about you, do you have a girlfriend? I answered that I'm single now. She was like "now? haha and before, and after?" I said "Maybe tomorrow I'll have a girlfriend, but now I don't haha. No it's cool, I'm just meeting people and having fun". -- I'm not sure here if I should have said I was single? But I don't think it hurt me much.

So you did kind of set a positive frame about the relationship, that was good, but you could have done more here, your answer didn't really provide a good continuation.

She wanted to feel connected here with someone who understands and doesn't judge, and that means deep diving her. Whenever you sense she's on a topic that is important for how she feels, it's generally a good idea to draw it out, girls are always desperate to express their feelings about things that are important to them but often can't find people willing to listen in a way that makes her feel understood.

MOVED HER

We chatted a bit more, and at one point I suggested we walk along the beach. She was happy to comply. As I walked I made sure to touch her some more, she didn't seem to mind but again I found her strangely "indifferent" as in, my touch didn't seem to excite her either. I complimented her on her hair at one point, and touched her hair a lot. She was like thanks, but the dye is washing out and whatever. I said it still looks cool with the reddish-purplish strains near the tips of the hair.

You seem to have used a lot of the same kind of touch, which generally is bad as it makes it lose its effect. If she's not uncomfortable with the very incidental touch I will usually just escalate it over time into more and more explicit touch until she reacts in some way, either by drawing away a little, challenging me, or becoming aroused. Your job as a dude is to go for what you want, her job is to reject or accept.

WATCHING THE SUNSET

We went to a location to see the sunset, which was sepctacular today. We both took some pictures with our phones. She asked me if I had instagram, I said yes but I don't use it much. But I gave her my IG for her to add me. She found me and saw that I almost have no friends on IG, and mentioned "oh you have few people" and I said again, yeah because I don't use it much lol. Probably not a big deal but maybe I should have asked her for her phone number/whatsapp instead?

I don't use social media much, and I will just go for phone number or whatsapp. If she's so keen to avoid giving me the # I'd rather save myself the hassle of trying to prove to her via some profile as to why I'm worth hanging out with.

I told her we could grab a coffee some day and continue chatting. I think she said "sure" but it didn't sound enthusiastic to me, so I don't know if that's going to happen or not.

Always soft close on a high note, it makes a massive difference. When she's really feeling the vibe, conversation is flowing, and there's a few moments of pause that's when you soft close, not as a way to keep things going when it's fading out a little or needing more oomf.

While looking at the sunset, at one point I put my arm around her and was like "let's have a romantic sunset" and she chuckled and said, "you're funny". But didn't react in any other way. I didn't feel the vibe was good enough to kiss her there and then, so I didn't. After half a minute or a minute maybe, she pulled back and took some more photos. --- I probably should have ended the embrace first? But I didn't think of it in time. My bad.

Not a good move here imo, what she needed was sexual escalation, a strong and leading frame from you, not romantic comedy. And yes, it's always much much better to end it first.

I think you could have simply put your arm around her without saying anything, and then transitioned into more sexual touch, caressing her, etc.

We talked about how it was getting cold, and she said she said she was prepared. She showed me how she was wearing leggins underneath her jeans, and the layers of clothes she was wearing below her sweater. I tried to playfully touch her waist while she did that but she kind of brushed my hand away. I laughed it off. No idea if it was a mistake doing this.

I think at this point she's just not feeling it with your touch, and that last one seemed a bit too opportunistic.

SAYING GOODBYE

Since she didn't comply with my touch I thought it's probably a good time to leave now. So I told her I have to go shopping, I actually needed to buy a heater and I told her that. She was like OK cool. I told her it was nice to meet her, and we hugged goodbye.

This is what often happens when you're inexperienced, you mess up a few moves and then there doesn't seem to be a good way forward, so you just bail. What I've found works well here is to be in my own frame and move my attention away, maybe look around, have a few moments of silence, but keeping a strong and calm presence. It lets the tension build up again and forces her to react in some way rather than me being led into either bailing or becoming more chasey. She'll often start a new topic or challenge me a bit or something and then I have something to play with again from a much stronger position.

I walked off, then checked my IG and couldn't see her request. So I actually went back (maybe 2 minutes had passed) and saw her walking away. I called out to her and told her I didn't get her insta, so she took my phone and added herself there. We hugged goodbye a second time, I said "it's been a pleasure". After walking off, I texted her "Gotcha " and she wrote "perfect" back.

Very good move, never bail out of a plane that's not on fire.

She was still compliant at this point but I think the interaction ended with one very important thing missing: qualifying.

When did you pressure her to prove herself to you in some way? Does she know of anything special about her that you like that makes so she's not just another notch in the bed post for you? That's part of what deep diving does, you draw things out of her, maybe even tease her on something, then when she tries to prove why she's X or she did Y you can compliment her genuinely on what you like most about her, and that's what she will remember when she wonders whether she should bother responding to texts or going out with you again. She becomes a little invested in you and your validation.

As it is she doesn't really know what you like about her and why, and that means there's not a whole lot left after the emotions of the approach fade out.

Good luck with all your future seductions!

 

[Gsi2810]

@gameboy - Keep at it man!

@others solid advice

@Will_V - great advice as usual, for me one advice in particular stood out: Dominant Leading Frame. This has been missing from my game because I guess I'm not that kind of a guy but I know I can work towards it. I wasn't a good talker but I learned to do push pull, teases, 2nd generation etc. and I want to learn this as well. I have started to incorporate more dominance in the bed room and that has done wonders for me but I'm lost (not uncomfortable) in what dominance means in social setting. Got any reading material or tips? I noted you said touching the lower back which I do (though not as frequently as I wish).