Indirect/Delayed Direct/Technical Game!

[terminator92]

Hi guys I am doing Chase's 30 day approach challenge. I consider myself intermediate or at least lower intermediate and have mainly done daygame. Almost all of it has been direct daygame. And I have gotten results from it. But now I have moved to a smaller city and lesser volume of women and I am ending up running into some women I had opened directly and where it had not gone well. Also I am starting to see some of the limitations of my Game. I feel its one dimensional and not suitable to many scenarios where expressing interest directly is not optimal. I want to develop a form of Game I can use and adapt to anywhere and anytime.

I am especially learning how to be more low key with my openers and slowly escalate the vibe. I know I will still be screening and polarizing but I want to learn how to do it more slowly, step by step and subtly. And I have been reading @Bacchus 's articles on that. It is quite challenging and I feel I need to alter my mindset a bit as I have always seen Game as expressing my intentions immediately. Its quite strange actually, when I do a direct approach and it does not hook, I still feel somehow satisfied "that I tried to Game her" but when I try a more indirect or delayed direct route and I don't hook I feel I did not attempt to Game her. This is maybe due to my indoctrination into the Direct Daygame mindset as being the best and only "true" way to Game.

I read Tony Depp's article here https://www.girlschase.com/content/many-benefits-learning-indirect-day-game and it resonates a lot with me. And yes as Tony mentions I have also shunned indirect game in the past due to it being more difficult to master and I definitely can see it is going to take me longer.

I know @Bacchus @Glow @Teevster all advocate this form of Game and have written on it. I am reading all of them slowly and trying it out. I wanted to know if there is a structure to learn it in a proper sequence and what I should concentrate on first and any products that would be helpful. I have heard that Gunwitch's Seduction MMA is good for this and I am going to get that.

Any thoughts and ideas on this would be great!

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

>I wanted to know if there is a structure to learn it in a proper sequence and what I should concentrate on first and any products that would be helpful.

There's way too much information out there.

In my mind, every guy needs to start with "the basics", and a "general understanding of people".

But I keep trying to write a bottom up approach, and find that the bottom is so expansive that you end up learning "basics" even as you get more advanced. It's impossible to start from zero and work your way up.

So take a top down approach.

Find a person that you like or that you LOOK LIKE, and copy them. If you like Julien, pick Julien. If you like Tay Social, pick Tay Social. If you look like Alpha Male Strategies, do his style.

You might take a bit of time looking at the various coaches and their programs/books/dvd's..but find one that really resonates with you - and copy them from haircut to shoe choice. Everything.

You won't ever be them. But in trying to be them, you'll start to uncover things about them, things about yourself, and things about the pick up and socialization that you did not know. It's finding these things and correcting them that creates your actual game.

You won't even know what your own problems are, until you start trying to do this for real.

I know the texts that I like, but mostly they confirm how I think, more so than they're "the best learning materials" available.

WIA

 

[Tr1cky]

I think it is important to point out that "indirect game" is not simply "delayed direct"

Example of delayed direct;

You:"Hey do you know where the pet shop is?"
Her: "go down 2nd street and walk three blocks over"
You: "thanks. I actually didn't need to know where the pet shop is, I just thought you were cute and wanted to chat"

Indirect is working her mind into a sexually receptive state without explicitly stating your interest or motivations.

Smma by GW is something I would definitely recommend. Once youve listened to it a few times I would also get his gambit course. Also check out yareallyarchive.com on the wayback machine and tylers digest on scribd

 

[terminator92]

>I wanted to know if there is a structure to learn it in a proper sequence and what I should concentrate on first and any products that would be helpful.

There's way too much information out there.

In my mind, every guy needs to start with "the basics", and a "general understanding of people".

But I keep trying to write a bottom up approach, and find that the bottom is so expansive that you end up learning "basics" even as you get more advanced. It's impossible to start from zero and work your way up.

So take a top down approach.

Find a person that you like or that you LOOK LIKE, and copy them. If you like Julien, pick Julien. If you like Tay Social, pick Tay Social. If you look like Alpha Male Strategies, do his style.

You might take a bit of time looking at the various coaches and their programs/books/dvd's..but find one that really resonates with you - and copy them from haircut to shoe choice. Everything.

You won't ever be them. But in trying to be them, you'll start to uncover things about them, things about yourself, and things about the pick up and socialization that you did not know. It's finding these things and correcting them that creates your actual game.

You won't even know what your own problems are, until you start trying to do this for real.

I know the texts that I like, but mostly they confirm how I think, more so than they're "the best learning materials" available.

WIA

Yess there is a ton of information on Game nowadays on Youtube but most of what I see on there relating to daygame is guys doing verbally direct openers/ compliment openers and direct sexual game. I have never come across any advice on good indirect daygame. Except maybe Valentino Kohen but I do not see much of his infield.

I have been reading @Bacchus 's posts on daygame. He is the one here I think who has written the most about it. I have recently heard about SMMA by Gunwitch but I now came to know it is a audio program. Anyways I am reading up and testing stuff on my own which I am posting in my journal here https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/4-approaches-30-days-chase-30-day-challenge.23565/

At the moment I am working on hooking conversations after low key situational openers and trying to write some Gambits and stacks I can use to hook.

 

[terminator92]

I think it is important to point out that "indirect game" is not simply "delayed direct"

Example of delayed direct;

You:"Hey do you know where the pet shop is?"
Her: "go down 2nd street and walk three blocks over"
You: "thanks. I actually didn't need to know where the pet shop is, I just thought you were cute and wanted to chat"

Indirect is working her mind into a sexually receptive state without explicitly stating your interest or motivations.

Smma by GW is something I would definitely recommend. Once youve listened to it a few times I would also get his gambit course. Also check out yareallyarchive.com on the wayback machine and tylers digest on scribd

Yeah I am aware of the difference I just added that there to say sometimes I have been able to notice IOIs very soon from a girl even when I open indirectly and then switched to direct by making a statement of interest and gotten some great results.

 

[West_Indian_Archie]

I have never come across any advice on good indirect daygame.

Apologies. I better understand you.

This is a definitional thing.

Direct - Hey, you're cute, what's your name, lemme get your number/insta/snapchat, and we'll go out. Or better, let's go this nearby Starbucks/bar.

Classic Indirect - Hey guys, quick question, is it okay to be friends with your ex? Quick story, I gotta leave in a sec. My buddy's dating this new girl but he still is friends with his exes on facebook......Oh you would say that...you're totally like that ...don't look at me that way, I don't think you're my type.....

Both of these types of approaches are somewhat straightforward. The direct lets her know, you're trying to bang her. Indirect, she's having fun with the chat and wants more, and you just keep making her jump through hoops until you finally give her some approval. From there, a leader/follower relationship develops with some sexual tension. The direct is a "seller's" frame and indirect is a "buyer's frame".

Classic Indirect has a hard time during the day because
- Social expectations does not allow more than cursory exchanges between strangers
- Day Game Targets are usually doing something other than socializing.

One can always try. And the key to a more indirect style is to find opportunities where the social expectations/environment lends itself to the style.

For instance, I can run a "night game" set while waiting for my burrito at Chipotle.
But I can't tell the "first night I got drunk" story to some girl that's going into Victoria's secret for their 3/10$ panty sale.

Maybe I could just chat a girl up, if I was in college and she was in college - because those social dynamics lend itself to that type of thing.
But that won't be easy if I'm on the train platform with some other office drudge.

That leaves an entirely different way of thinking.

Sexual MMA/Derek Rake/Ross Jeffries/Bacchus - I don't consciously practice these styles, but that's because a lot of the buttons being pushed are UNCONSCIOUS. Deeply unconscious. Where with indirect a girl might just play along or whatever, it's not nearly the same as as these styles.

"Next Level" indirect. Gunwitch, if I recall my interpretation, is hijacking her brain. (Using Frame and Dominance) Bacchus's style, if my interpretation is correct, uses language so rich, descriptive, visual, and sensual that he's basically IMMERSING THE GIRL into his reality. He's speaking, but she's imagining and feeling and reliving. That's a very different thing than what I do consciously, what most guys do, what most guys are even attempting. Most guys CANNOT think on that level. It requires way too much thought.

When I affect girls like this, it's not because I consciously did so. She's falling in love with my whole essence. Even if I'm the one that put on the cologne, work the clothes, did the work out, learned to speak properly, have things to say, know how she's gonna react, etc. It's not any one thing I can point to in the moment that I did on purpose, it's an overall SENSORY effect. I'm affecting her like a good song, like the smell of freshly baked chocolate chip cookies, like putting her hands in a barrel of dried beans. ASMR for Game.

Meanwhile I'm running my standard indirect game, getting her to chase - what she's reacting to/attracted by is being dropped into a pool of LSD. Nothing that I'm saying matters, but per usual, she's getting a lot more from me in terms of nonverbal and subtext that I do not intend. To that end, I could do a proper direct or a classic indirect, but the nonverbal/non-intentional stuff is doing the heavy lifting.

What I thought you were looking for, does not exist. I thought you were looking for Classic Indirect applied to Day Game. There's no "who lies more" stuff for day game.

So the "neuro-level" game stuff is your only option. To that end, Sexual MMA is probably the best regarded.

Keeping that in mind, this is the more woo-woo area of pick up, and you're getting into the realm of song writers, artists, chef's, etc. You're going past the cerebrum and to the cerebellum, and truly constructing a sensory experience, as opposed to something that's merely social.

WIA

 

[Bismarck]

Current indirect tech is not Mystery's opinion openers fare. It's simply you either opening her with "Hey! You look just like my ex-girlfriend...except, are you the type of girl who ... ?" HB responds: "blablabla" "yeah, my ex was more ..." if she's moving. Or something like this (Gun gives other examples in SMMA).

You can also go situational if she's stationary - you can even open situational if she's moving, like in the report sampled below. Note however that this girl had already given me what at the time I took to be massive compliance by starting to walk behind me.

And while you don't reveal your deck straightaway by hitting on her direct you do project sexual intent/state with your eye contact, low bass voice coming from the groin, dominance, and kino/touch.

SMMA requires that you practice so that this becomes natural. You won't get the narc/ego high "hitting on that girl"/going against established social customs by hitting on her direct as a random during the day would give you, but eventually you'll be able to execute one-shot kills, as opposed to approaching 100 girls to smash 1.

terminator92 here's a 1.5-year-old example SDL day game report of mine using 100% indirect verbals:

Last time I had sex was 13, 14 and 15 February so I was getting horny, as I don't masturbate or watch porn. The last girl I fucked I'm only seeing again on 9 April.

I had opened some hot girls and was attempting to arrange for dates but was coming unstuck in having them pull through.

This morning I woke up thinking I was going to continue working on my thesis, but last night I had already thought that I should do day game today and try to get laid, otherwise I'll start climbing up the walls.

What actually got me to leave my apartment at 1:30pm was the idea of getting some chocolate cake and ice-cream. I did that then on the way back saw a SHB walking the other way and I wanted to open her, but I was holding half the chocolate cake slice and half the (now melting) ice-cream which I had asked them to box up for me to eat later in my hands, and I wasn't wearing my pimpest clothes. My clothes are still not all pimp, which is something I will change soon.

So I decided to go home and put the stuff in the fridge/freezer, but to come back out and do some day game. I ended up drinking some strong green tea and meditating for about 15 minutes sitting on my desk chair by the balcony listening to the birds chirp in the sky before leaving too.

I left the house at 3:00pm and walked downhill to the square close to my apartment, crossing the street. On the other side, I saw an Asian girl standing on the sidewalk taking photos. She was smartly dressed, in grey suit trousers, loafers, gabardine, and shades. She was short, and had short hair.

I didn't notice all this immediately, and I didn't want to approach her there near the streetlight either because the street was noisy and aggressive, so I walked past her and noticed that she started walking behind me, so I slowed down my pace.

I slowed down to the point where we were walking side by side. Then I asked her: "Have you taken some good photos?" She answered that she had, and I told her "You look Asian," to which she said "I'm from Korea." I asked her if she was from "North Korea?" and she said "No! South Korea, North Koreans aren't allowed to come here"

We were walking together and now there was a crossroads, and I wanted to take the lead so I told her "I've been working a lot on my thesis, so wanted to take some time off to come outside and enjoy the sunshine, walk around a bit"

She said "I'm going to the [square by the river]" I told her "I was thinking of going there too!" And so I turn to the street which leads there, it's a pedestrian wide street, and we continue walking side by side. I start talking about the weather.

I made a point here to slow down the rhythm of my speech and to speak from the groin, with a low, bass, voice. We got to another crossroads – all pedestrian – and I said “if we go this way the view is more beautiful – and she followed my lead, so I was already in control.

In conversation I told her I worked as a tour guide and when I told her my name and she told me hers I put my hand out for her to shake but her hands were both occupied so she didn’t take my hand.

A little while later I told her, ‘let’s shake hands, to say hi’ and she gave me her hand, and didn’t take it away, so now we were walking side by side holding hands, this about 10 minutes upon approach.

We walk down the hill to another big square and cross the street. I tell her to show me the pictures she’d been taking. She stops walking and starts showing me the pictures on her camera, and I hold the small of her back as I get up closer to her to see them.

Then we walk down this wide pedestrian street to the riverside, and I’m holding her side-waist all the way through. I told her I liked to sit by the river, and she agreed, already telling her where I was taking her.

When we got to the final big square before the river, I told her about a typical local cherry-based liqueur which is popular, and she said she wanted to try it. We went and got one from a chocolate cup. After that she was more amenable to my touch.

We walked to the riverside and as we went there I was talking to her about the sky, how I missed the clear transparent blue sky and sunshine of my hometown (pointing towards it) when I studied abroad in Northern Europe, where the sky was grey and dark, and there was no sun, telling her when the sun appeared everyone would go crazy and take off their clothes running to the public parks to soak it up as much as possible.

She was asking me what it was like to live here. I was telling her it was better to visit because when living here things tended to be pretty slow, inefficient and unproductive, and that there was lots of corruption in the government, to which she riposted that in South Korea people were very productive and efficient but everyone was stressed out. I told her it’s true that here things are more relaxed, she said she liked it better here.

I told her: “[My hometown] is a very liberal, bohemian city. People are really free. You can do whatever you want. You can come here, go on an adventure, and then leave like nothing ever happened, like in a dream”

We sat by the river and chatted a little bit looking out onto the water. In the conversation I told her I enjoyed playing ping-pong and had purchased a ping-pong table and that it was pleasant to call friends over to play ping-pong because I have a view of the river from my window, to which she inquired: “Is it close by?” and I said “Yes, it’s close”

I was telling her when my friends came over we would drink some wine and relax playing ping-pong. Then I told her: “Maybe we can go there.”

I could sense she might resist, so I added: “It doesn’t have to be now, maybe in 10 minutes or so”

I realized, when I was giving these visual image-rich descriptions of my enjoyment playing ping-pong, that she said at one point “I like that”

So about 10 minutes of fluff talk later I said “Let’s go” and she complied.

As we walked I was holding her side-waist (I had been alternating between that and holding hands) and still chatting fluff talking about sky-diving, that came up because I was asking her what the buildings were like in her home-town compared to mine, and she was saing in her hometown they were very tall 60-storey sky-scrapers, and I had said you could sky dive out of the window then, and she had told me what she’s studying abroad in the neighboring country, and that she was catching a bus at 10:00pm to go back.

She also revealed she was 22. I could tell from her side-waist that she had a nice body hidden beneath those prim and proper smart clothes.

Then I led her up to my apartment without a shred of resistance. Walked up, showed her the place, it was now maybe 3:45pm (45 minutes after I had left the house in search of my afternoon meal), put her coat and bag on the coatstand, served her some water.

She was at mine and I was setting up the ping-pong table with her help and I hadn’t kissed her yet, only hand-holding and holding the small of her back, and when I gave her the racket to play she said she didn’t like sports.

We hit 1 ball and when it fell off the table I went to get us some wine. I had asked her if she wanted some and she said yes, and then she was sitting on the chaise-longue sofa and I sat next to her, started kissing her, she said: “You wanted to do this all along!” or something, which I didn’t answer, saying merely “Oops! I just spilled red wine on the couch” (there’s a stain there now, as it’s a cream-colored chaise-longue).

She said “I have to leave at 8:00pm” and then I was kissing her neck, took her drink away from her, and led her to my bedroom, zero resistance, took the button of her trousers off she took off the rest, I took off my trousers, then we got inside the bed I was kissing her she took off her panties, and we fucked!

I wore a condom at first but then took it off and continued pounding that delicious tasty pussy. There was a bit of dirty talk and after about 45 minutes perhaps a bit more I jizzed pulling out and putting it in her mouth she swallowed like a good girl and since my seed was dripping from her mouth (she looked so cute!) and there was a fair bit on her tits and tummy, I went to get some toilet paper and cleaned it up.

Then I suggested we watch a movie here, which we did (Layer Cake, if you haven’t watched it yet, it’s probably the best crime caper that came out after 2000), and gave her some chocolate cake and ice-cream.

She asked me if I was lonely, I said “yes, a little” and she told me “me too, I broke up 2 months ago with my 4-year-old boyfriend” I told her I had had my heart broken by a girl recently.

1 shot 1 kill fellas! Fortune favors the bold

 

[terminator92]

That's a very different thing than what I do consciously, what most guys do, what most guys are even attempting. Most guys CANNOT think on that level. It requires way too much thought.

Yes! This was what I was talking about. I had heard about this a year ago but I thought it was too much planning and too nerdy and I was sold on the "Natural Game" is the only true way to Game and not using routines, gambits or any prepared material before walking up to a girl and that directly stating your intentions is always the best.

After a almost a year more of doing the "hey you are cute thing" I have come to know it's limitations. And now I appreciate or can see why this level of planning, forethought and preparation can take you to the next level and that what looks good on Youtube is not really the best or optimal form of Game.

I know this is going to take a long time to get good at and is a lot more nuanced and will take a lot of practice. But I feel this is where I want to take my Game. Make it more strategic and have more control or have a direction for what I am doing. Till now I feel I have mainly been "rolling the dice and playing the numbers game" with my direct openers.

For example yesterday I saw a really hot girl who lives in my apartment building standing outside and smoking and I realized that since I cannot do my direct opener I really don't have a plan or method for trying to seduce her in a smooth way without being verbally direct so that even if she is not interested it does not seem like I hit on her. This made me realize how one dimensional my Game is and that I have to expand my arsenal.

 

[terminator92]

Current indirect tech is not Mystery's opinion openers fare. It's simply you either opening her with "Hey! You look just like my ex-girlfriend...except, are you the type of girl who ... ?" HB responds: "blablabla" "yeah, my ex was more ..." if she's moving. Or something like this (Gun gives other examples in SMMA).

You can also go situational if she's stationary - you can even open situational if she's moving, like in the report sampled below. Note however that this girl had already given me what at the time I took to be massive compliance by starting to walk behind me.

And while you don't reveal your deck straightaway by hitting on her direct you do project sexual intent/state with your eye contact, low bass voice coming from the groin, dominance, and kino/touch.

SMMA requires that you practice so that this becomes natural. You won't get the narc/ego high "hitting on that girl"/going against established social customs by hitting on her direct as a random during the day would give you, but eventually you'll be able to execute one-shot kills, as opposed to approaching 100 girls to smash 1.

terminator92 here's a 1.5-year-old example SDL day game report of mine using 100% indirect verbals:

Wow! That's an amazing SDL. I had an SDL like that in March this year with a Japanese tourist. But I was not doing all these consciously. I just approached her and asked her to take a picture of me and then managed to transition and got into some light flirting and kino and she just seemed to be up for it and within two hours we were at a bar making out and then in another hour she was in my bed having orgasms! And I never made a direct verbal statement of my interest throughout the interaction.

That was the first time I started to doubt the direct opener as being the best for daygame, because in the 2 weeks preceding that I had done 25 direct approaches to not much avail. And after my experience my wingman at that time also pulled a girl he met off daygame without going direct.

Now I want to learn the structure and do these consciously and train to daygame or Game anywhere using these methods. So the consensus seems to be that getting SMMA by Gunwitch is a must to develop this style of Game.

 

[Velasco]

Quoting 3 separate posts from 3 different posters participating in this cold approach challenge (props my dudes)

Saw a girl rolling a cigarette. Approached her as she stopped by a wall. Told her she was gorgeous. Tells me she has a boyfriend. I brush it off amd ask her how her day is going. She insists that she is about to call him so I'd better go. I wish her well.

Opened with something very low key asking if this was the main entrance to the station and giving her context by telling her that I was waiting for a friend who is supposed to meet me here. Then I did a cold read about her nationality and got it right. She was Russian. This shocked her and she was stunned that I could tell though she was wearing a mask. This opened the topic of travel wonderfully and I tried out some bits and parts of gambits I have read from @Bacchus ’s articles especially the Tourist Frame.

Of course my delivery was nowhere near how Bacchus explains that he delivers them. But still it was good to use them and she said she would go to Thailand if she won the lottery and could go anywhere in the world. I asked her what she would do first if she landed in Thailand tonight and said she would go eat some delicious seafood and then go for a swim at the beach. During this part of the interaction she told me she had a husband and she was waiting for him to pick her up. But the convo was going good so I stayed in thinking I might as well get in some conversation practice. I then nudged the conversation to many topics telling her about my interests and exploring hers and I feel I did a good job of deep diving. But after knowing she had a husband I chickened out of trying to get into sex talk. But looking back I think she would have been up for it and I should have tried to slowly introduce it. After some more time elapsed I realized she was not really investing in me and she seemed unavailable and rather satisfied with her husband and there was nothing going to happen between us.

Me: You know, what’s the difference between green tea… and herbal green tea? It’s almost like they’re trying to trick us.
HB: How old are you?
Me: Haha, is that the first question that you always ask people you just meet?
HB: No, only the college boys who try to hit on me. I’m sure that you can find a pretty girl your own age.
Me: Girls my age are so… immature. All they think about is what parties to go to… which pictures to post on Instagram… and which pair of sweatpants to wear to their 8:00 am class. Sometimes, I really would like to have an intellectual conversation with someone who is just… a little more sophisticated than the rest. When I look in your eyes… I can tell that you’re the type of women who is very intelligent.
HB: Aw, thank you! But I’m married. *shows me her ring*

For me, what's going through these chicks mind as you talk to them, is they're wondering "why is he asking/saying THIS to me?"

When you open a chick by asking for directions/entrance to X. She's gonna respond with the directions to X (or say, "idk sorry")...cause that's what she thinks is why you asked her that question. Anything else BEYOND what an average joe looking for directions/making small talk would say to her, will be interpreted as flirting. And once she knows you're flirting (telling her what game you're playing...credit: @Dreamer for recommending this post in the chat), she can either choose to play along or not.

So when you give her a direct compliment ("your gorgeous/cute")...again.... She's wondering, "WHY is he saying THIS to me?" Oh it's because he's interested in me. Which causes her to reveal both her availability and interest level in you based on your looks+vibe (she's either be 1) single and interested

We make it across and i give my direct opener. "Hey, i know this is a lil random, but i think you look cute. What's your name?" And then i get into the conversation.

2) single and not interested 3) taken and not interested 4) taken, but not that into her man (even if she say she loves him...cause she wouldn't have put herself in position to being seduced and SNLed by a stranger (like going out on a girls night out....or inviting you over to her place with a "warning" talking about, "just want to let you know that we're not gonna have sex").

You'll often read about how its best to go indirect because that'll prevent chicks from making a decision based on her first impressions of you (looks+vibe). But what if I told you, she's already made that decision of whether or not she'd fuck you. She just wants to know if that's YOUR intentions with her (asking her for directions don't tell her nothing). So that she can let you know if she's available or not.

 

[Zoro]

Going to chime in with my thoughts...

I think what differs from guys who seem to really nail indirect and those who “surprise” girls with their interest, is either leveraging preopeners and approach invitations or communicating with their overall vibe (how you say it vs what you say).

The FRs of NarrowJ and Richard come to mind.

I mostly use direct because it just feel better for me, but I’m planning to try out indirect more.


Here’s a little bit of context for few times I’ve used indirect that have gone well: I had an actual question that she could help me with, I asked her about something we were both engaged in, or I opened her after getting strong approach invitations.

Since I don’t have the skills of JJ and Richard, I think these girls really liked me from the start, which helped. Although I notice that indirect benefits from some solid context/reason to approach like myabove examples.

When’s there isn’t much context (like the typical street stop) that’s when direct becomes easier and perhaps the better way unless you have the skills and/or wit to give the situation some context.

now that I think about it, perhaps when there is that context then indirect is not only more practical but the better way.

 

[Velasco]

thanks for you thoughts, @J Wick

now that I think about it, perhaps when there is that context then indirect is not only more practical but the better way.

This post wasn't about wasn't about which approach is "the better way" (I prefer indirect btw)

Just explaining why these guys getting the responses they getting.

leveraging preopeners and approach invitations or communicating with their overall vibe (how you say it vs what you say).

if she throwing AIs at you from across the room...or you notice her staring at you from your peripheral vision, or hell approaches you herself, then odds are high she's available (she do like u tho...unless you turn your head and catch her giving you a look of disgust lol...). you can open indirect like you did in your FR

Suddenly I notice a smitten-able kitten in red. I don't look at her too much. Too many sharks at the beach, better to pre-open by letting her see me. I don't like contrivances if I can avoid them, but pre-opening is pretty good at a place like a beach where people stay put for awhile. I walk along the beach some more, sometimes you can find bigger fish.

Lucky for me, I didn't see anyone else. Seeing this cutie up close, she's a personal 9 or 10. We make a little eye contact, and I see her smile a little. Usually I fuck up this kind of eye contact, or maybe I don't give myself enough credit here.

I don't open right away, I like to take a swim first and cool off before settling in for a chat. Helps calm my nerves too, I deal with some general anxiety.

I see her trying to get the perfect selfie, part of me feels like she was trying to catch my attention, and I was loving it. It was genuinely adorable and enjoyable watching her try to get the right picture. I was watching her and it felt right. I don't know if people have some sort of sense for this, but something told me she was comfortable with it.

After awhile I got a little uncomfortable, I was getting in my head and slightly avoiding opening her. I went the water again real quick to wash the sand off. I was half in control and feeling like a boss, half feeling like a chump avoiding saying hi.

When I get back to the towel, I finally, call over her too her "How many selfies does it take to get the perfect one?"

or direct ( walk on over to her smiling with a cocky expression going, "Hey! What's a cute girl like you doing over here at the beach all by herself" )

when’s there isn’t much context (like the typical street stop) that’s when direct becomes easier and perhaps the better way unless you have the skills and/or wit to give the situation some context.

ya that's what topcat did in the first example. He found out her availability right away

 

[Slick]

Women don’t want guys putting them in a pedestal. That’s why they go for assholes instead of nice guys

 

[Velasco]

news at 11

 

[terminator92]

Quoting 3 separate posts from 3 different posters participating in this cold approach challenge (props my dudes)






For me, what's going through these chicks mind as you talk to them, is they're wondering "why is he asking/saying THIS to me?"

When you open a chick by asking for directions/entrance to X. She's gonna respond with the directions to X (or say, "idk sorry")...cause that's what she thinks is why you asked her that question. Anything else BEYOND what an average joe looking for directions/making small talk would say to her, will be interpreted as flirting. And once she knows you're flirting (telling her what game you're playing...credit: @Dreamer for recommending this post in the chat), she can either choose to play along or not.

So when you give her a direct compliment ("your gorgeous/cute")...again.... She's wondering, "WHY is he saying THIS to me?" Oh it's because he's interested in me. Which causes her to reveal both her availability and interest level in you based on your looks+vibe (she's either be 1) single and interested 2) single and not interested 3) taken and not interested 4) taken, but not that into her man (even if she say she loves him...cause she wouldn't have put herself in position to being seduced and SNLed by a stranger (like going out on a girls night out....or inviting you over to her place with a "warning" talking about, "just want to let you know that we're not gonna have sex").

You'll often read about how its best to go indirect because that'll prevent chicks from making a decision based on her first impressions of you (looks+vibe). But what if I told you, she's already made that decision of whether or not she'd fuck you. She just wants to know if that's YOUR intentions with her (asking her for directions don't tell her nothing). So that she can let you know if she's available or not.

@Velasco
Thanks for going through my journal and offering your thoughts!

I get what you are saying, but one of the main reasons why I wanted to switch over from direct to indirect is the in- applicability of direct in certain scenarios like talking to your neighbor, girls at Uni, on the bus, cafes and closed spaces where you will not be able to leave the other person's company immediately as when a direct opener bombs, girls you may run into again and the small nature of the city I am currently in. I felt, I would rather prefer her letting me know indirectly that she is not available like she did in the interaction from my journal that you quoted and me expressing my intentions indirectly so that she can make that decision.

Since I am looking to convey interest through sub-comms I still definitely do want the girls to know that I am interested in them as I will not get an answer if I don't ask the question at some point. I did not switch to indirect in the hopes that it is a magic method that will enable to me to trick every girl into sleeping with me without risking any kind of rejection.

However, I would like to ask you since you also do prefer indirect, what are your reasons to prefer indirect? And also don't you feel that with indirect done skillfully of course (and I am still just dipping my toes in it) will give her more to make her decision based on? She may have not been into you the second you approached, but after a few minutes you intrigue her and she is now more open to the idea of something with you? Are not Gunwitch, Bacchus, Teevster, you and several others slowly influencing the girl to open up to the idea of sex with you while avoiding ruining the social frame and avoiding knee-jerk reactions from direct verbals when you run your Game? Would love to know your thoughts! Thanks

 

[terminator92]

Just explaining why these guys getting the responses they getting.

Ohh and I just read Captian Jack's post you linked. I feel I now see the larger picture you were trying to explain let me know if I got it right. The direct game guy gets agreement on Game Dynamic 2 asap when he goes direct. The indirect guy gets it when he starts setting a sexual frame? And if he does not, the girl might already have decided on Game Dynamic 2 but the guy only gets to know her decision when he escalates the vibe. Am I right?

Would still love to know your views on the points about indirect game I raised in my last post.

 

[Velasco]

I would rather prefer her letting me know indirectly that she is not available like she did in the interaction from my journal that you quoted and me expressing my intentions indirectly so that she can make that decision

Ya that's perfectly acceptable

what are your reasons to prefer indirect?

Really it's what I feel most comfortable with. I started with YaReally, Roissy and RSD back in 2015 and I really liked the trollish jerkboy way they went about opening. I also grew up watching tons of trollish TV shows (got a post somewhere here talking about the kinda shows I watched. Edit: found it ) so it fit my personality.

don't you feel that with indirect done skillfully of course (and I am still just dipping my toes in it) will give her more to make her decision based on? She may have not been into you the second you approached, but after a few minutes you intrigue her and she is now more open to the idea of something with you?

Ya. She can think your intriguing as fuck (just like she could think your funny as hell). But it wont change her status of availability (there are degrees to her interest level. If shes available and interested (the lowest being, willing to hear you out), you can close via indirect (just like you can close via direct (just might have to pass a few shit tests as a knee jerk tho. Which is cake if your in a good state). Peep Lofty's multiple interactions in his journal for an example of someone who fascinates the fuck outta girls.

Ohh and I just read Captian Jack's post you linked. I feel I now see the larger picture you were trying to explain let me know if I got it right. The direct game guy gets agreement on Game Dynamic 2 asap when he goes direct. The indirect guy gets it when he starts setting a sexual frame? And if he does not, the girl might already have decided on Game Dynamic 2 but the guy only gets to know her decision when he escalates the vibe. Am I right?

Ya

 

[terminator92]

Ya. She can think your intriguing as fuck (just like she could think your funny as hell). But it wont change her status of availability (there are degrees to her interest level. If shes available and interested (the lowest being, willing to hear you out), you can close via indirect (just like you can close via direct (just might have to pass a few shit tests as a knee jerk tho. Which is cake if your in a good state). Peep Lofty's multiple interactions in his journal for an example of someone who fascinates the fuck outta girls.

Yeah I get it. One is not better than the other. And neither can completely change a girl who is unavailable to sleeping with you. But since I have stopped relying on direct verbals I can see how the rest of my Game is not on point at all. I am not a skilled conversationalist and have quite a few other things that are not on par. I am trying to work on them.

 

[Skjöldr]

I do daygame and most of it is from the streets, so i go direct. I think it is socially unintelligent to stop a girl on the street to ask for the time and then try and switch it around and get into a conversation. Many of the girls i approach are jogging, talking on their phone or looking like they are in a rush. Cut through the bullshit quick and get to it quickly. Then she can decide "okay he finds me attractive, do i find him attractive or not?" Whereas when i have asked women about tea and shit in grocery stores and gone into a conversation, it goes stale and awkward and she doesn't invest because she's thinking "Why does he keep talking to me....." And they excuse themselves. Few guys succeed at indirect. I have lots of respect for guys like @Velasco who go indirect, because their game is really good. Personally for the next year or two of practicing i will stick to mostly direct and i advice guys who are beginners and intermediate to do the same. When i get good game and have the fundamentals down, i will try experimenting with the indirect stuff and get more gamey and technical. I think indirect is better suited for night game and direct is better for daygame. In daygame you gotta be quick and to the point. Most girls are out for a reason. They gotta meet friends, catch a bus/train, go to work/school etc. You got between 1-5 minutes. Go direct and screen them quick. In night game, say, a lounge bar you can plunk down and run game on girls for a good while, so the indirect stuff can work well. Personally i just wanna be time efficient so i go direct.

 

[Skjöldr]

Different things work for different people. Indirect for me is just not my personal style. While i couldn't imagine James Bond jumping in front of girls on the streets telling them they are sexy/cute, neither can i imagine Tyler Durden putting on a suit and tie and run NLP on classy women in lounge bars.