Openers Indirect Direct

[monsterslimjim]

I was reading the blog a few months back and came across this:

https://www.girlschase.com/content/easy- ... ect-direct

I thought it sounded interesting but I kind of tossed the idea out and never got around to trying it.

Big mistake.

I absolutely love this kind of opener and in all the times Ive used it, it has worked wonders. If you read this and try it, I can guarantee it will work for you too.

However, when I used this, I took it almost word-for-word from the blog so I was just curious if anyone else had some indirect-direct openers that that they have tried.

-Monsterslimjim

 

[PinotNoir]

This is really great! Can't believe I haven't read this post before. I'll try this sometime in the next couple of weeks and hopefully let you know what I tried.

I can only think of 2 instances where I've tried this before with the same line. There may be others, but I can't remember them...

Scenario 1: This one went well, but it sounds really cheesy now when I read it...
Me: Hey, what's the square root of 4?
Girl: Um, 2?
Me: Actually... it's plus or minus 2, but I still think you're cute. Can I be your math tutor?

Scenario 2: Didn't work; she was kind of mean about it too.
Me: Hey, what's the square root of 4?
Girl: Plus or minus 2.
Me: I thought all cute girls were dumb! (Or I could have said like from the blog: "I knew you knew. I just wanted to talk with a smart and cute girl.")

 

[coconutpete]

In my opinion, this is still direct, even though you approach by saying something random. You're still stating your interest verbally, or directly. To use Chase's example, I can't imagine James Bond saying to Halle Berry: "Nah, I'm kidding, I just thought you looked cute". To me indirect direct would rather be making her understand you're interested without saying it directly, only by implying it. And my question would then be, how do you imply your interest? Are touch, voice tone and eye contact enough?

 

[Franco]

Hey coconutpete,

To me indirect direct would rather be making her understand you're interested without saying it directly, only by implying it.

Actually, that would just be indirect! Indirect just means that you are implying your interest by your fundamentals, meaning you could be talking in a sexy voice, giving her bedroom eyes, or possibly even making physical contact with her.

However, any time you directly state your interest with your words (usually by complimenting her), then it is considered direct. The reason Chase refers to this method as "Indirect Direct" is that he doesn't actually open with a compliment... instead, he opens with a situational (or other indirect) opener, gets some momentum in the conversation going, and then directly implies his interest by complimenting her. If he were to never compliment her during the entire interaction, then it would just be considered "Indirect."

I hope this clarifies things!

- Franco

 

[coconutpete]

Hello Franco,
Thanks for your answer, I understand your logic. Still I'm convinced there must be a way to be more subtle. Of course there wouldn't be much point in trying to be sexy while talking about vegetables or asking a girl's opinion on abortion etc. (by the way, I think so-called opinion openers are a particularly weak attempt at striking up a conversation). But the way I see it, when people go indirect they don't show nonverbal interest either. They try to come off as sexy but it's almost never aimed at the girl in question. Whereas an indirect direct conversation could go: A:You must be a gymnast. --B:Why? --A:Something very graceful in the way you walk. --B:Well actually, I did study ballet when I was 13. --A:...and in your voice, too, so... etc.

Do you see what I mean? Would you call this pure indirect?

 

[Franco]

Hey cp,

I think so-called opinion openers are a particularly weak attempt at striking up a conversation.

I agree. I rarely use this type of opener as it is usually confusing to the girl, you might give her the wrong impression, and it rarely goes the way you want it to.

But the way I see it, when people go indirect they don't show nonverbal interest either.

If a guy approaches a girl and does not open her directly with a compliment nor does he try to show non-verbal interest, then I don't even consider it an "approach." Lots of beginners will start out this way because it feels the most "comfortable," but if you are going to approach a girl and not show verbal or non-verbal interest, then that is basically just the same as "talking" to her. She will have no idea that you have any interest in her, and usually these conversations end up being very friendly or ending abruptly.

Whereas an indirect direct conversation could go: A:You must be a gymnast. --B:Why? --A:Something very graceful in the way you walk. --B:Well actually, I did study ballet when I was 13. --A:...and in your voice, too, so... etc.

Do you see what I mean? Would you call this pure indirect?

There's obviously a gray area when it comes to defining "indirect direct." The example you've given here is actually probably closer to direct than it is to indirect. If you compliment her within the first couple of seconds without much interaction on her part, then I generally still consider it part of the "opening." However, this would be an example of a "softer" direct opener as your compliment isn't very aggressive, and she may not pick up on your interest with it. I love indirect direct as an opener, but I generally do the exact opposite of what you've given here. I'll generally open with a situational opener, converse for a bit, then give her a very direct compliment such as, "By the way, you have a genuinely gorgeous smile... I can tell you are the type of girl who truly values the finer things in life." I'll usually follow this up with a sexy smile and direct eye contact.

You can play around with what works best for you, but in my opinion, when you go for the compliment, your intentions should be very clear. Most guys fail to realize how important this is, so they tend to "soften" their compliments and they come across as either weak or inadvertent. This will probably lose you a few girls who might have actually had a genuine interest in you.

- Franco

 

[coconutpete]

There's obviously a gray area when it comes to defining "indirect direct." The example you've given here is actually probably closer to direct than it is to indirect. If you compliment her within the first couple of seconds without much interaction on her part, then I generally still consider it part of the "opening." However, this would be an example of a "softer" direct opener as your compliment isn't very aggressive, and she may not pick up on your interest with it. I love indirect direct as an opener, but I generally do the exact opposite of what you've given here. I'll generally open with a situational opener, converse for a bit, then give her a very direct compliment such as, "By the way, you have a genuinely gorgeous smile... I can tell you are the type of girl who truly values the finer things in life." I'll usually follow this up with a sexy smile and direct eye contact.

You can play around with what works best for you, but in my opinion, when you go for the compliment, your intentions should be very clear. Most guys fail to realize how important this is, so they tend to "soften" their compliments and they come across as either weak or inadvertent. This will probably lose you a few girls who might have actually had a genuine interest in you.

That's perhaps my personal ego problem but there always seems to be a "trying to get in your pants" side to using such direct compliments. Don't you sometimes feel that? The ideal being that the girl's interest should be pricked and she should be wondering whether you're interested, and then you imply that you might be - things don't work exactly that way, you'll tell me.

 

[Chase]

Pete-

That's perhaps my personal ego problem but there always seems to be a "trying to get in your pants" side to using such direct compliments. Don't you sometimes feel that? The ideal being that the girl's interest should be pricked and she should be wondering whether you're interested, and then you imply that you might be - things don't work exactly that way, you'll tell me.

Watch any James Bond, from Sean Connery to Daniel Craig - how he speaks to a woman, how he sizes her up and looks at her. You get the distinct impression from the moment he meets her that not only does he want to get in her pants, but he's fairly confident sooner or later he will - whether he opens direct or not.

When I was first approaching, I tried my best to divorce opening from sexual intent too. The reasoning for me at the time was, well if she KNOWS I want her, then all interest is automatically forfeit and I'm automatically chasing... right?

But what I found was that women were consistently treating me like just some guy they met socially, and running off with these sexy badboy guys instead. Drove me nuts. I figured it was my technique, I thought I wasn't smooth enough, I worked on all kinds of things, and for the first two years of serious gaming I'd be picking up, but I kept hearing from girls after I slept with them, "Wow! I had no idea you liked sex that much! I didn't even know you were into me like that!" I thought about it, and decided that being thought of as a guy women figured wasn't all that into sex probably wasn't a very good thing - being the sexless guy's no good.

So, I did a lot of working focusing purely on sexual intent. I wanted everything I said to drip with sexuality. I wanted women to meet me and feel like my sex drive was a lion in a cage that couldn't hold it for much longer. I modeled it after the most sexual men I knew - guys who were bursting with so much sexuality you got the distinct impression that it didn't really matter whom specifically they ended up with, so long as they found SOMEBODY to ravish.

And it worked. Suddenly women were getting really excited around me, and calling me sexy, and calling me handsome, and flirting like crazy, and if their friends pulled them away they'd escape again and find me. My pulls were happening faster than ever, and got more and more consistent. As soon as I started making it obvious I wanted sex, beautiful women who also wanted sex from a sexy man who wants sex started gravitating to me like I was carrying magnets in my pockets.

I don't do too much coaching in-person anymore, but whenever I'm advising friends or whomever, a big part of my advice now is, "Get a sexual vibe. Get a sexual vibe. Get a sexual vibe. Women should FEEL like you're on the point of being about to rip their shirts off right now in public, but you're just barely restraining yourself. Get that vibe. Absolutely get it."

I've since realized the fear of seeming "too easy" is unfounded. Yes, if you're dripping with sexual power, women will know you want sex, and if you compliment them, they will know you are sizing them up for sex. But what they DON'T know is if you're just toying with them or if you're serious - they don't know if you're going to pull the trigger. And if you do a good job with your fundamentals, they will very much want you to pull the trigger. You build a different kind of anticipation then... instead of it being a sort of platonic curiosity along the lines of, "Hmm, this guy's interesting," it becomes a burning, primal need to know how things are going to play out between the two of you.

When a woman reads a romance novel and sees the lusty heroine and the sex-fueled hero bursting at the seams with testosterone look at each other with bolts of electricity zapping between their eyes, she KNOWS they're going to end up together, but she keeps reading anyway. In fact, she flips the pages even faster - and she starts getting nervous - "OMG, what if something happens and they can't be together," she thinks. "OMG, WHEN are they going to get together?" "OMG, they have to get together RIGHT NOW! COME ON, stop TEASING me! Something could HAPPEN!"

This mixture of excitement, knowing anticipation, and burning desire to know how it ends is what a woman feels when she meets a sexy man who's communicating sexual intent in her in a smooth, calm, measured way (i.e., not desperate, not throwing himself at her, but very calmly, gracefully letting her know he's interested).

The "trying to get in your pants" side to a direct opener is not something to run from - just something to make sure you cloak in refinement and social grace. Women don't go crazy for the platonic men who give them no indication of their interest one way or another - or else, girls'd be rabidly chasing down their asexual nice guy friends who keep telling them they don't want anything from them besides friendship. Instead, what they want is the sexy man, brimming with sex - and they just want him to tease them a little, and make them wait, and build some intrigue, and finally, when it's built up enough, provide them their release.

One caveat: if you are very new to meeting women, you might be better served leaving sexy to the side while you develop basic social skills. Women will be far less interested in mating with you, but they'll be a lot more likely to stick around and give you the chance to get used to talking to them than they will a guy who doesn't know what he's doing who's communicating sexual intent. Sex intent is sort of like a sword that way - beautiful and graceful in the hands of a man who knows how to wield it properly, but you want to get as far away as possible when you see a guy who doesn't know what he's doing with it swinging it around in the air.

Chase

 

[coconutpete]

Women should FEEL like you're on the point of being about to rip their shirts off right now in public, but you're just barely restraining yourself.
The "trying to get in your pants" side to a direct opener is not something to run from - just something to make sure you cloak in refinement and social grace.

Hi Chase,
how does one convey that, without coming across as a potential rapist/desperate pervert?

 

[flowerpower]

Are there other indirect direct types of approach you could use?

 

[diegoC]

Chase wrote:
Women should FEEL like you're on the point of being about to rip their shirts off right now in public, but you're just barely restraining yourself.
The "trying to get in your pants" side to a direct opener is not something to run from - just something to make sure you cloak in refinement and social grace.

Hi Chase,
how does one convey that, without coming across as a potential rapist/desperate pervert?

Imagine coconutpete you open a girl with something like:

"I saw you standing here and *brief pause*, I had to come to tell you that *pause* *slightly squinting eyes for the punch line* you have an amazing look"

(I'm not a native english speaker but with look I mean the way she looks, the intensity of her gaze with her eyes. I guess look is the word. I use this opener as my default when I just don't have found nothing to compliment her and don't want to waste time before approaching. I like it because it compliments her look rather than her eyes. I'm complimenting something more than a physical aspect)

If you think saying this makes you look rapist/desperate it's your problem. It's something you have to work on. Just say that stuff and act like you are comfortable with it. Eventually you'll be. Is like approaching. First you have AA like crazy. You approach while being really nervous and trying to hide it. Eventually, you get comfortable and voila!

You could say to a girl "I love the way it looks the cleavage of your blouse" (rather this than something too direct like "I love how your boobs look with that cleave", jejeje. Also, I wouldn't open like this, jajaja, although, I'm positive I could work on some girls but you have to read very well on which ones it might). You could really deliver this line and it would go well (if you deliver it in a good way). Most of the things we say are well received when they are wearing "make-up". And that make-up is your fundamentals: being sexy, tone of voice, facial gesture, body gesture, etc.

If you are nervous when talking to a girl she will see it, right through you, and that cleavage comment will come just awful. If you say it fine you will come not as a pervert but as a sexual sexy guy.

Just remember that if you don't want to sound like a rapist/desperate guy you should not feel like one. When you feel comfortable you can say forward things (direct compliments) with no fear of coming in a way you didn't intend. You'll come just fine, as a sexual guy who knows what he wants. Girls will sense this.

Cheers!

 

[Chase]

Pete-

Women should FEEL like you're on the point of being about to rip their shirts off right now in public, but you're just barely restraining yourself.
The "trying to get in your pants" side to a direct opener is not something to run from - just something to make sure you cloak in refinement and social grace.

Hi Chase,
how does one convey that, without coming across as a potential rapist/desperate pervert?

See these:

Secrets to Getting Girls: Chase Framing

How to Use the Sexual Frame to Turn Women On

Sexual Tension: 7 Ways to Make Women Excited and Randy

How to Use Indirect Game to Get Girls

The 9 Secrets to Being a Sexual Man

How to Be a Sexy Man

Chase

 

[flowerpower]

Hi, I'd like to reiterate my question: are there any other efficient ways to do indirect direct? Now when I think of approach, the whole 'I just saw you standing there and had to come and tell you...' routine automatically comes to mind, and it isn't fresh enough I feel.

 

[Chase]

Flowerpower-

Hi, I'd like to reiterate my question: are there any other efficient ways to do indirect direct? Now when I think of approach, the whole 'I just saw you standing there and had to come and tell you...' routine automatically comes to mind, and it isn't fresh enough I feel.

There's another one I like, that's a bit more situational, and you have to be in position to more casually find yourself next to a girl, but you can open with something a little sarcastic / teasing (not insulting, of course), and follow up with, looking away and making a brief dismissive hand gesture and cute scrunchy / squinty face and saying, "Naw, you're cute though," then reestablishing eye contact and continuing the sentence with, "what've you got going on today?"

That's like this:

• 
  You: Wow, that's a lot of books... they must have you on the Barnes and Noble Platinum List.
  Her: [laughs] Yeah, I guess I do read a lot.
  You: Naw, you're cute though... what are you doing at a B&N on the middle of a Saturday afternoon instead of being out enjoying the beach?
  Her: Well, I'm more of a book girl than a beach girl I guess! What about you?

It's a bit more hit-or-miss, and I only use it infrequently - it seems like shier girls find it flattering, and can really warm up to you and get nervous around you, while more confident / experienced girls find it a little contrived. I mostly save this one as a recovery move if I tease a girl and I can tell she took it a little too personally / it felt a tad too harsh, and I need to build her back up again. The real risk here I think is dismissing what you yourself said, which can be a little too self-deprecating or look socially uncertain to confident women who didn't act like you went too far with your initial opening line (e.g., you're being overly cautious, and there was no need to dismiss your original comment).

If you want to drop the "dismissing your earlier statement" part, which admittedly can make you come across a little weak when used in the wrong contexts, you could... but I've never really had that one work quite right for me - that's more like, "Wow, that's a lot of books... the must have you on the Platinum List," and then she replies, and then you say, "You have a really nice smile. So what are you doing at...?" I think that one risks coming across a bit TOO smooth or scripted, but if you like it, try it out and see if you can make it flow a little bit more naturally.

Chase